am HI readings

Hi all, Inge and Ching here, been quiet for a while as Ching and I have had a pretty horrendous diabetic ride so far...but before I can tell our full story I need to know
1.how to set up a spread sheet on this forum.

2. were getting horrendously HI (over 33.3 mmlo) readings in the morning...this is with me, even with holding all food from 9pm till 5am...I thought he was somehow being a houdini and getting at the Royal Canin Diabetic dry food...but this seems no to be the case...as I have all foods wet and dry locked away now... He's on 2iu Lantus...the vet tried him on 3 iu when he was there last weekend and his readings dropped to 1.8...bleedin idiots..anyway long story that I will tell you about once I can get the propper charts set up

3. I am at a loss as to when I should feed him, and how often...what I'm doing now is testing him 5am...then feeding him with both wet and dry ( inject 2 IU Lanuts at 5.30)...and leave the food out till about 10am....take it away...take a reading at 12pm...take a reading at 4pm put food out for him (inject 2iu Lantus at 5.30pm) and leave food out till about 8pm. Ching has always been able to munch when ever he wanted to as have all my cats...so trying to get him to eat enough ( especialy post Hepatic Lepadosis sp?) in 2 sittings is not proving easy...even my other cats are battling as well...they cry out for food at the set times...yet they merly nibble....I have all my cats now on either FF,whiskas tinned or friskies pamper...no mention of any wheat, corn or any other carbohydrates on the can's info...here in South Africa I'm afraid we dont get any of the choices of canned foods as you do in the USA...also frustrating is that Ching starts asking for food at about 3pm...and having to make him wait that hour is prooving frustarting to say the least...especialy when 4pm comes he seems to have lost interest...

 

First here is the instructions for creating a SS http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16#p103

I'm not sure what you feeding (brand, wet or dry) but normally with Lantus you do not have to control the intake of food so much. You can more or less free feed, leave food out for him to eat most of the day/night. The only times you should try to not have food available is 2 hours before your test and insulin shot. Most people Test in the morning then prepare the food and shot feed the cat and shot the insulin while they are eating. Testing in between shots is also important and does not need to be at a certain time each day. Most people test before the shot then 2-3 times during the 12 hours until the next shot. You can see examples of this by opening and looking at others Spreadsheet that are linked in thier signature. You are looking for the nadir (the point when the BG number is the lowest) this number will help you decided if you need a higher or lower dose.

I would recommend that after you get your SS created then go to the Lantus forum here and read the information in the information section about using Lantus, then post there and introduce yourself, there will be lot's of people to help you out and recommend a plan to get your kitty going in the right direction with lantus.

 

Hi Inge

sorry you're having such a hard time! But glad you found the board! And good to hear you are home testing while using insulin!

Just want to clear a couple questions:

~ If I understand correctly, u test at 5am, feed, and shoot 2u at 5:30am, 1/2 hour later, correct?
~Is this your daily shot time schedule for both AM and PM? An you are currently on 2units of Lantus twice a day, 12 hours apart. Yes?

~Does Ching have access to food while you're away?
Newly diagnosed cats need food available to them. as much as they want.

~How much does Ching weigh?

~Does Ching eat wet food with no problems? Why does he need dry food still?
~Are there any other health issues? ETA: just saw some of ur older threads, Ching has Fatty Liver disease

Not sure if now is your sleep time, I think it is (time zones) but when you have a chance, come back and post some recent BG (blood glucose) numbers...
a spreadsheet would be great too!

Also to let you know, this board does have a Lantus Group fourm. viewforum.php?f=9
Sounds like you could use quite a bit of support. .

I know you are using the WORLD numbers, so we'll have to convert them to U.S (multiply BG # x 18 = U.S conversions)
You can also use this link to convert.
http://gorbzilla.com/usvalues.htm


I hope you can post some more numbers for us soon, a lot of people here can help you figure this out ok?

 

Hi Ronnie

If I understand correctly, u test at 5am, feed, and shoot 2u at 5:30am, 1/2 hour later, correct?

the routine was for 6am..but has been getting earlier because of his HI readings in the morning...but yes...this morning Ching woke me at 5am...as he has been doing the past few days...I test him...feed him then shoot 2 ui..

Is this your daily shot time schedule for both AM and PM? An you are currently on 2units of Lantus twice a day, 12 hours apart. Yes?

Yes it is

Does Ching have access to food while you're away?

I work from home so am with him nearly 24/7..the vet...well one of them told me to reduce his meals to twice a day only....so hence I allow him to eat from 5am till 10am....4pm till I go to bed normaly about 9pm or there abouts

How much does Ching weigh?

Last check Ching weighed 4.5 kgs

Does Ching eat wet food with no problems? Why does he need dry food still?

He does but still goes to the dry for his bigger intakes of food...the wet he realy only licks...am trying to convert him slowly

Are there any other health issues?

he had fatty liver for a month and a bit ( last month and first weeks of this month)...so eating is still kind of an issue...I think probably more mine than his

Not sure if now is your sleep time, I think it is (time zones) but when you have a chance, come back and post some recent BG (blood glucose) numbers...
a spreadsheet would be great too!

This morning he was HI bg...ie over 33.3...thats well over 500 your side and he hadn't eaten since 9pm the eveing/night before..this after noon 11.30am he was 20.1 bg...and am about to test him now...you know I'm in tears right now.!!! just got back from testing him and he's HI bg again ( 3.50pm here)...what the heck is going on...he's only dew for his shot at 5.30....he's eating Whiskas tin at the moment... I have tried to find where and how I can creat a spread sheet...but havn't the fogiest....ok just saw Monique's link ( thank you)

I realy am at a loss here as he's only been on the 2 IU Lantus since last Sunday...so a week...

 

hi again

I would really recommend you get ur spreadsheet going, and visit the lantus forum, they're gonna want to see previous numbers,

are u checking BG during the rest of the cycle when u are home? Spotchecks are typically at +3, (3 hours after shot) +6 (6 hours after shot - midway thru a 12hour cycle (known as the peak/nadir) plus anything between +6 and +11 spotchecks for the later end of the cycle.

Those numbers are important too, lantus is not based on preshot readings alone, knowing what Ching is doing during each cycle will help to determine how lantus is working on him.

I know how upsetting this can be, its frustrating yes, but one of the main things to start learning is how lantus works. And trust me you can learn this and by keeping a log of his readings, others can guide you along the process.

Hang in there Inge! It does get easier and manageable!

 

Monique, I went to your link but the internation one says the page no longer exist...then went to the uSA one and wasn't promted for name or anything...I realy feel stupid at the moment..and think I will leave it for now and just sit with Ching till his next 2 iu....thanks anyway

 

Try this link:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16

If you cannot open it, then go to the Tech Support Forum and look for the 3rd ! message - how to create spreadsheet.

That will walk you through the process.

 

oh, inge, i'm so sorry. i know how stressful and worrisome this all is at the beginning.
in a short time you will smile when you remember how worried you were "way back when." it'll be fine.
till you can figure out the spreadsheet, just post the numbers in your posts so we can all see if we can spot trends.
most important is to test before each shot, and then at some point near halfway between shots. try to get some spot checks between 4 and 7 hrs after you shoot. if you can't always do that, try to at least get a spot check before you go to bed. that'll help us figure out how ching is handling the dose.

this is how we post on the page:

AMPS [#] (AMPS means morning preshot reading)
+4 [#] (means the reading 4 hrs after you shot. we don't use actual hrs/mins because we're from all over)
PMPS [#] (PMPS means afternoon or evening preshot reading)

so if you can post these for a few days running til you figure out the spreadsheet (post all the numbers you have in one spot so we can see them together), that'll help us and you tremendously.

i totally understand about the food. my cat had HL at one point too. in her case it's because she was vomiting from lymphoma. normally we ask people to stop feeding dry food because of its effect on the blood glucose and because it's not great for cats in general, but hepatic lipidosis is nothing to play around with. getting your cat to eat is the most important way to get the liver back to normal. but it also means that normally the dose would be higher to counteract the extra carbs. that's ok. we'll just hope you can get ching eating more regularly and back onto low carb canned food.

no need to feed on a strict schedule. right now your cat needs food whenever and wherever he'll eat it. easiest thing is small meals more often rather than two set meals. do you have chicken baby food there (no onions or garlic, just plain chicken and water or a little cornstarch as a thickener)? that and deli meat may tempt ching's appetite more, too.

 

Re: am HI readings-Lantus and history Fatty Liver Diseaese

Hi Inge-Welcome to FDMB :mrgreen:

Has anyone talked to you about testing for keytones?
You need urine strips from the pharmacy called ketodiastix (I think they would sti be called this in Africa)

The Whiskas tinned-is it in jelly or gravy?
Is it just called Whiskas? or another one Whiskas do is Whiskas Mmm

I'm sure you mention Felix too?
Can you get Felix 'As good as it looks'? This is low in carbohydrates (3.4%) and will help not overwhelm Chings Pancreas.

I know the 500+ readings are scary, but he's still your Ching.

At 4.5kg I'd say he's underweight?
Was Ching previously obese? Lost weight dramatically? Big cause of Hepatic Lipidosis.

Need to work on getting Ching off the dry, but also you need to consider lowering his dose.
With HL he needs more protein, less carbs. Dry is just giving him carbs. Will he eat fresh boiled chicken? I know this is more expensive but if soaked in water you are hydrating him more too. You must still try and get him to eat the wet as it has the essential ingredient Taurine in.

Can you just type out some numbers for us?
AMPS ....
+2...
+4....

Whatever spotchecks you have and the same for PMPS...

Don't give up, lots of people here to help you.

 

Morning all, I dreaded waking up this morning...and was expecting Chings BG's to be sky high as per ususal, I did what Monique sugested and left wet food Whiskas meat loaf with chicken out all night, I also left out the Hills MD dry...but on top of the bar so he would have to make a little bit more effort to get at it...was woken up this morning 5.30am not by Ching as I have the last few days but by my spoilt stallion banging on his door for his breakfast...to cut a long story short...first BG reading I got was 11.3...figured I didn't get enough blood...tried again and got 13.5...thought...no this can't be right...so tried again ( poor Ching)...nice big bright red drop...18.7????....fed all the ctas again...though there was still plenty of food left over and gave him 2 IU at 5.45am...I'll take another reading in an hour or so...as I am worried that now were going the other way....but am wondering why in the heck did his BG's not go down after a night of no food....and they go right down when I left the wet food out for him???
I will try and set up a SS today...and go and look at the Lantus group...
more to come....and thanks so much every one...I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't found this group...
Inge

 

never know with a kitty. sometimes numbers are high after no food coz they're stressed out and feeling absolutely starving. stress can raise numbers, too. sometimes they have a hidden stash of dry or high carb spilled somewhere.
or it could just be that the insulin has accumulated to the point that it's starting to affect the BG levels.

definitely start posting on the lantus group as soon as you can. also read some of the other threads there. you'll learn a lot and sometimes the questions you have are asked and answered in other threads (we call them condos and open one new thread for each cat per day). it really helps to post daily with others in the same boat using the same insulin.

 

Just curious, have you tested your meter on yourself? 11.3 (203.4) to 18.7 (336.6) in a matter of minutes seems a little bit strange to me (or was it quite a bit longer between tests?).. I would think that the meter should give you an error if there isn't enough blood, not an incorrect reading?

Not saying it's not possible, I haven't been at this very long, so my lack of running into it doesn't mean it doesn't happen .

 

Fraay, I did a check with the tester solution...and it was working fine...mine does give an err reading...but not when there isn't enough blood....the one I'm using is on lone from the vet...it's a GlucoPlus made in Canada...the samples were taken straight after eachother. Chriscleo...thanks I'll get an SS up and running as soon as I figure how to ; )
Inge