? AMPS 182-don’t shoot?

Discussion in 'Caninsulin / Vetsulin and N / NPH' started by Mary & Navi, Dec 11, 2017.

  1. Mary & Navi

    Mary & Navi Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Hi all!

    I just did Navis AMPS test and it was 182 (first time it’s ever been that low preshot. I don’t give her her Vetsulin she’s that low, correct?
     
  2. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Always wise until you have a lot more data. If it happens again, you can stall for 20 minutes without feeding and retest. If the BG is rising you can give a slightly reduced dose. How much less depends on numbers around that time. The stall/retest can be repeated up to 3 times because you have about an hour's flexibility with Vetsulin's shot time.
     
  3. Mary & Navi

    Mary & Navi Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Ugh at what would have been +3 she’s up to 443. I feel bad skipping her shot now I guess she got a “day off” lol
     
  4. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    You'll get her back. :) Better too high than too low.
     
  5. Mary & Navi

    Mary & Navi Member

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    Oct 20, 2017
    Yes very true. I guess I just got too hopeful with that low preshot number lol!!
     
  6. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi Mary Anne,
    You're getting some very steep drops in BG, and then it looks like the BG is bouncing up high (possibly because the BG is dropping too fast).
    Can you tell us a bit about your feeding schedule? - There may be ways to slow down that BG drop with food....

    Eliz
     
  7. Mary & Navi

    Mary & Navi Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    That would be great because all this bouncing is driving me nuts!
    I feed a full can of Fancy Feast 2x a day preshot around 6:45am/pm. Usually every 2 hours she’s hounding me for more food so if I can make her wait I’ll do another half can around +4 or 5, but sometimes she’s determined so I’ll give 1/4 of a can at +3 and +6. Lately she’s been really hungry so I’ve been kind of feeding in demand but not too much at once and I make sure it’s not less than 2 hours before testing.

    I’m sure a better schedule would help...I’m so lost with the feeding!
     
  8. nmveasey

    nmveasey Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    What is your order? Do you test/feed/shoot? Feed/test/shoot? Try to make sure she doesn’t eat 2 hours prior to the preshot test.

    Her hunger may be that she isn’t getting enough to eat. One can of FF is only 3 ounces and typically under 100 calories. How much does Navi weigh? Is she losing weight? Gaining weight? Does she have any dry low carb kibble to graze on during the day?

    Many diabetic cats do better eating multiple meals throughout the day. I say if Navi is hungry, feed her. Diabetes effects the body’s ability to absorb nutrients properly. Hence why they are always hungry, especially unregulated cats.

    Have you checked out the website catinfo.org? There is a lot of nutrition information there. A lot of people, me included, offer a low to zero carb kibble for the cat to graze on during the day. I feed Dr. Elsey’s clean protein chicken and Young Again Zero. Both companies will provide free samples if you contact them.

    Here is my schedule with Monster. Maybe it will help you.
    AM and PM-
    1- prepare food
    *Monster gets a 3oz can or half of a 5.5 oz can of wet food with water added with a sprinkling (under 1/8 cup) of Young Again Zero
    *1/4 cup Dr. Elsey’s Kibble in another bowl (for him to graze on during the day/night)
    2- Test
    3- feed
    4- give insulin (if needed) while he is eating.

    I try to keep Monster’s calorie intake below 330 kcal per day, as he seriously needs to lose weight. At the same time, he has always been a grazer. Bowls are empty by the next feeding time.

    Hope some of that is helpful.
     
  9. Mary & Navi

    Mary & Navi Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Thank you it is helpful!
    Basically I test at around 6:30 am/pm, fix the food ( a whole can of Fancy Feast), then shoot about 3-5 mins into her eating. I have to shoot while she eats because she won’t let me otherwise.

    Lately I have been feeding whenever she’s hungry, I’m just not sure what is too much. She had lost a bit of weight before diagnosis (was about 5 lbs) but has since started to gain back (almost 6 lbs at last check up a month ago).

    I haven’t added the water to her food yet because she’s drinking normally now (not guzzling it) and her peeing is back to normal. Basically she’s back o her prediabetic self, Just wants food constantly!
     
  10. nmveasey

    nmveasey Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    I’m glad you found it to be helpful. Maybe try increasing her canned food to 1 1/2 cans both feedings. You can also offer boiled chicken in addition to the canned food. Consider adding the low/zero carb kibble. That may be the protein she needs to help her hunger.
     
  11. Mary & Navi

    Mary & Navi Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Oh yes I give boiled chicken whenever I make it. I need to make it more routine! Thank you, I’ll take everything into consideration...I’m willing to try whatever is needed. I just got a call that my civvie has cancer in her mouth, so I’m not losing either girl!!
     
  12. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi Mary Anne @Mary Anne ,

    With Vetsulin some folks find if helpful to feed the kitty 20 - 30 minutes before the shot.
    That is because the insulin can drop the BG really fast in some cats, and having food on board for when the insulin kicks in can help to slow down the rate at which the blood glucose drops.
    So, how it typically looks in practice is:
    1. Test.
    2. Feed.
    3. Wait (20 - 30 mins)
    4. Shoot.

    Given that you can only give Navi a shot while she's eating maybe it would be possible to give most of the meal after the preshot test, then wait, and then just give the remainder of the meal so you can do the shot...?

    Also, if a cat is prone to steep drops in BG, it can be helpful to feed a snack an hour to an hour and a half after the insulin shot. That can help to further slow down the rate at which the blood glucose drops.
    Some folks (who can't be around to give a snack) find timed feeders helpful.

    I see from your other thread that Janet and Kris have suggested a dose reduction, and that looks like a very sound suggestion to me.
    The dose does look too high because Navi's BG is dropping too fast and a bit too low for comfort. And it's then bouncing high and dropping again...
    Ideally, for safety's sake it's a good idea to try to not let the BG drop below 90 - 100 initially. That's because Vetsulin can (as you've seen) drop the BG fast; and aiming to keep it above 90 - 100 gives some buffer of safety.

    Incidentally, have you read the new Vetsulin doc in this forum? It was put together recently by some members here to give general info on Vetsulin. You may find it helpful.
    And please keep asking questions... :bighug::bighug::bighug:
    Beginner's Guide to Caninsulin (Vetsulin)
    .
     
    Kris & Teasel likes this.
  13. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    So sorry to hear this diagnosis, (((Mary Anne))). ....But your kitties are both blessed to have you in their lives. :bighug:

    Eliz
     
  14. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    If she's hungry, feed her. She can eat what she wants, just no food 2 hours prior to the preshot test. Maybe do a can in the morning, 1/2 can in the afternoon, can evening, 1/2 can before bed. If she's still hungry give her more. (3/4 instead of 1/2)
     

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