AMPS=307, +2.5=111, +3.15= 62!!!!

Almost 200 pt drop in a little over 2 hours!

Ozzy...mama needs to finish XMAS shopping today!!!

He was SUPER playful this morning and running all over the house, jumping on Fig, etc. Maybe the extra exertion brought him down a little. He's snuggling on top of the couch now in his favorite spot, but going to take him to food dish now.

 

Just recalled that he didnt eat his 9am snack (forgot to fill feeder) but he did eat almost 3oz for breakfast which would also cover his 9am snack oz wise.

@Critter Mom @Kris & Teasel Think I should go back to .75 tonight? He did good last night on 1u but was flat yellow all day yesterday for his AM cycle.

 

He is eating now. Gave him FF classics chicken roasted- think its 12% carb. Will test again in 30-60 mins.

 

Strewth!

Test in 30 minutes, Jo. He could potentially go lower.

.

 

He's dropping like a rock! Only +3.5 in and he's at 62. Down 245 points. He is eating again. After last test, he hid under bed. We grabbed him out. Feeding now...will test him again in 15 mins.

Feedback anyone!!??

 

Just did...he's at 62 now! He's eating again. Will test again in 15 mins.

 

Hang in there !!! You can do this !!!!

 

He is eating still now. Seems hungry. I caved and sprinkled a few bites of dry carby food for him. I'm sure he is happy now. Will test in 15 mins.

 

@Kris & Teasel @MrWorfMen's Mom @Chris & China .....Ozzy needing help

 

How am I ever going to go back to work in Jan! This is nerve wracking. I can't monitor at work.

 

Thank you!

 

I'm here.

Great catch on the low. TEST IN 15 - IF 50 OR BELOW GIVE KARO/HONEY.

Get hypo kit on standby. Grab 'how to treat hypos document'. (Preparedness.)

Don't give too much food at the moment.

HAVE YOU GOT HIGH CARB FOOD WITH GRAVY?

If yes, please post the brand and the variety of the food so we can check the carb content.

.

 

Digging it out of the cupboard now. He got about 10 crunchies fror his old dry. He's licking his lips in fulfillment - oh how he missed his crunchies. In his litter box now. Testing soon.

 

Don't think about January...stick with right here and right now ....

 

Karo and honey sitting on counter ready to go.

Was NOT expecting this today.

Chris.....you forewarned me last night with that flat yellow cycle. I did NOT forget!!

 

Keep a brief log as you go. Post test results when you get them PLUS details of any food / treats / karo/honey given (need to keep a track through the cycle).

Log details:

Test time (in + notation) - BG result - <feeding details (if food given keep log of amount & carb value/type)

.

 

+3.15 = 62 (~ .5 - oz wet FFC roasted chicken + 10 kibbles)
+3.5 =61 (~10-15 kibbles)

Gave him more crunchies now. Purina Cat Chow Naturals. Not sure carb count (dry is not on food charts)...but it's dry, so I assume high in carbs. This is how we got here, right??

 

Testing again in 15 mins. Praying for a dip up. Come on kitty!
F*&%!!!!&^ Vestulin!!!!!

 

So so proud of you !!! First time this happened to me it was 10 pm and Elmo was at a 37 !!!! My first encounter with FDMB was with Chris and Linda....saved Elmo's life ....

 

Saying Ozzy prayers now !!!!

 

Holy crap!! How scary!
I was about to leave to go shopping and was not planning on curving him today but thought...what the heck...just do a check before to make sure he's going slow. Chris&China warned me yesterday about a flat yellow cycle preceding an 'active' one. Now I know what she was talking about.

 

He's in the kitchen now smacking on his lips enjoying some crunchie munchies like it's the best day of his life. Silly Kittyiot!!!

 

You're doing great, Jo, but don't go too mad with the feeding: you need to give the right type of carbs at the right time and you don't want Ozzy getting too full to eat more.

If you have any high carb food with gravy give 1-2 teaspoons of the GRAVY ONLY (works quicker than dry high carb).

Test again in 15. If 50 or below give honey/karo.

Post BG after test as soon as safe to do so.


Great job with the status updates.
.

 

Comfort break. BRB.

 

It's the Mighty Mogs to the rescue !!!!!!!

 

Another thing I did way wrong was get all upset and gave him a teaspoon of syrup instead of rubbing little bit on his gums....put him into DKA and 3 day vet stay....I was an idiot before these precious ladies !!!!!

 

OMG...ok, thanks for letting me know this.

 

OMG!
You are doing great!
You are safe - Mogs is with you!

 

Amen to that !!!!

 

~+4 =79. He's on his way back up now.

Thanks for the rollercoaster ride, Ozzy. Hope it was more fun for you!

 

I second that!

 

No, he's turning up now. What kind of high carb gravy food do you recommend? I will stock up just in case for next time (anti-jinx).

 

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers is a go-to for other US members.

 

Don't know what that was .....this is how older folks operate on a few hours of sleep

 

QUOTE="Critter Mom, post: 1850544, member: 10789"]Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers is a go-to for other US members.[/QUOTE]
Got it.

 

It's still early in the cycle, Jo.

Don't feed any more for now and test in 15 minutes.

Did you just feed low carb?

.

 

Trying to figure out what went wrong this morning...

1. Didn't fill the auto feeder and just fed in bowls only
2. Gave 3 oz breakfast instead of 1.5 oz breakfast
3. Ozzy skipped his +1.5 meal (see #1 above) but he ate a big PS breakfast

Wonder if it had to do with his feeding schedule this morning. Or if it is related to his flat yellow day yesterday as @Chris & China warned about.. ???

 

Plan to test again in about 15 mins to make sure he is still rising.

Fed FF roasted chicken which I think is 12% carbs and gave him some dry kibble (he was thrilled about that part).

 

Possible that skipping +1.5 feed didn't slow the drop. Impossible to know for certain.

I still think the 1.0IU Vetsulin dose is a bit too high for Ozzy.

.

 

Yes, you need to do that.

 

The little turkey......but he is sooooo cute

 

+4 and 15 min =90. He's rising slowly but in the right direction.

 

Mogs...do you think the 1U is too much now or always has been? He was doing ok on the 1U so far but still staying mostly yellow and pink. Or do you think that he's starting to get used to insulin and he now needs a lower dose?

Thoughts have crossed my mind to just not give him any insulin for a day and see how he does...but then you know I'm all worried about those darn ketones!

 

Better - but he's not flying up yet.

Don't feed and test again in 15 to see if he'll go into the 100s.

.

 

sounds like a plan.

 

Sorry...but the lyrics to Queens' "Bohemian Rhapsody" keep playing over and over in my head right now....kind of fitting for this situation!

Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide,
No escape from reality.

Open your eyes,
Look up to the skies and see,
I'm just a poor boy, I need no sympathy,
Because I'm easy come, easy go,
Little high, little low,
Any way the wind blows doesn't really matter to me, to me.

My kitty is all chill through this whole thing. Probably thinks his meowmy is a crazy lady!

 

I've thought so since the AM cycle of 18 December - nadir 105 on that cycle and general trend in BGs was drifting down a bit.

As you see here today, Vetsulin can really tank BG really fast - hence FDMB Vetsulin Guide recommendation not to aim for nadirs below 100 on a human meter. Keeping the safety buffer there provides a protective cushion should something unusual happen (e.g. not eating as much, vomiting, exercising a little more than usual).

Now that Ozzy is receiving insulin it's taking strain off his pancreas and allowing it to rest - and hopefully recover more beta cell function. Remember how Elmo's BGs gradually eased down the range as his treatment continued.


Mogs
.

 

You r way too funny !!!!!

 

Reminds me of the games we used to play on one of my framing forums.

.

 

We aim to please....Gotta have some laughter during this madness!!

 

So what do you think? Take him down to .75u tonight or go to .5?

 

Ha ........have a friend who says " if it's not fun, make it funny!"

 

Exactly!!!

 

~+4.5 = 113

 

We need to see what happens for the rest of the cycle and how the high carb treats affect him BUT if Ozzy were mine I would reduce the dose tonight. I would also plan to monitor him until at least +4 on the PM cycle.

.

 

Attaboy, Ozzy!

Don't feed. Test in 30 mins.

(You're doing great, Jo!)

.

 

Will definitely monitor him tonight again at least to +4.

Should I go with .75U or .5U at PMS? What would you do?

 

Thanks! Thanks so much for walking me through this.
My cat may just drive me crazy!!
My BP is starting to go down now as Ozzy's BG rises.

 

Around this time two years ago another member was walking me through a low and I was beyond grateful. Back then I never thought for one minute that one day I might be doing the same.

The members here have been extraordinarly kind and generous to Saoirse and myself; they have helped us through so much. I am very grateful for a chance to pay forward.



.

 

Love this!

 

You both doing OK, Jo?

.

 

+5.5 = 197. Probably going to go into the high 300's by preshot. Poor kitty... what a rollercoaster for him today. He is sleeping... looks a little wiped out from today's events.

 

yes, just posted an update a moment ago. Thanks for checking on us.

 

Promised Pawzie I wasn't going to poke him too much today since I curved him both cycles yesterday. I almost didn't test him again after breakfast today. Could you imagine?!

Note to self: don't promise your kitty anything but love and food!

 

Glad to hear all is OK. I get fretty when it goes quiet.

It was a hard, fast drop; can be tough on the body. (((Ozzy)))

Numbers over the next while will be influenced by the higher carbs and possibly bouncing but they should settle again as the carbs work their way out of the system and any bouncing clears.

As I learned more about how Vetsulin affects BG levels I made sure I always tested early in the cycle - AM and PM.

.

 

I reckon Ozzy'll be more than willing to forgive you for that particular poke!


.

 

Holy moly! I was out doing errands and missed another kitty crash! What the heck is going on the last few days?? So glad you had help.

 

It's crazy over here. I was totally not expecting this today. He has been cruising ok for awhile. Today was his lowest number since starting vestulin (well...that was recorded I should say...never know when you are not monitoring).

Mogs was really helpful. We got kitty back into the blue. I'm sure he'll be pink here real soon. Hoping not red though. He hasn't gone red since we got him home (except once at the vets).

 

When I get back to work after the 2nd, this will not be possible for the AM cycle and I can only do this up to +4 on the PM cycle. Not sure what we are going to do or how to figure this out. Wish I didn't have to give him insulin during the day. Hubby even suggested this... I'm a little confused about our next steps with this since we cannot monitor at work.

 

Unfortunately kitties need twice daily dosing with insulin because they metabolize it rapidly. Switching to a slower acting insulin would likely help - are you still considering Lantus? Are you going to lower the dose tonight?

 

I would definitely like to consider a slower acting insulin. Is it too soon to make a switch for Ozzy since he is still all new to this?

Besides slower acting, what are the other benefits of switching? Which insulin is slower acting but also allows for flexibility? I have a busy corporate job and there will be times where the 12/12 may be off by an hour or so, maybe on both ends (AM/PM). I know the best choice of insulin is really Ozzy's choice - meaning the one he responds the best to.

Mogs thinks the 1U is too much for Ozzy now. She commented on this above.

How much should I give tonight? .75 or .5? It's really hard to tell the difference on my syringes, I have to eyeball the .75. I am expecting higher numbers PS tonight since he ate some kibble (oh he was so happy about that) and maybe from bouncing back from the low of 61.

Still a few hours to go before next shot. Will test him again in about 3 hours.

We are FINALLY getting out to get those last 2 presents for xmas!

 

Hi Jo,

Sorry I didn't get back sooner.

I suggest getting a cheap 'n' cheerful jeweller's loupe to magnify the syringe markings; makes dose measurement a fair bit easier.

You did really well today, Jo!

NB: Log all the food type/timings for the low today in your spreadsheet. That way you'll have a record of which foods helped Ozzy's levels rise (and how quickly). It's very useful to have this information to refer back to should Ozzy have a low run in the future.


Mogs
.

 

Once a cat's pattern of response to a depot insulin is better known there are some people who work with a slightly different dosing schedule to the recommended 12/12; for example, some do an 11/13 schedule. While not 'strictly protocol' the possibility is there.

FYI Prozinc is a longer-acting in-out insulin. I've not used it. It is supposed to be gentler-acting than Vetsulin but from the spreadsheets of kitties I've seen being treated with it this insulin may still produce relatively wide swings in BG over a cycle. L insulin curves tend to be flatter and smoother overall.


Mogs
.

 

Just got home from our last minute xmas shopping. Holy hell it's a mad house out there. I had to drive 2 miles out of the way and around the mall just to get back to my house (we live on the same road that leads to the mall). Glad to be back! Time for a tottie!!

Just took Ozzy's +10 = 367. He ate a small .5 oz dinner. Will try to feed him more and then will shoot here in a bit. OMG...I sound like a drug addict!

How much???? .75U or .5U? I honestly want an uneventful night tonight. For both Kitty and me..

 

The syringes only have 1U markings. I'm eyeballing the in-between 1U measurements.

Thanks, I appreciate all your support through the madness.

 

We have actually done this a few times due to schedule issues and because I really wanted to be able to get a +4 before bed so I knew Ozzy was going to be ok for the night.

 

Girl, your post made me laugh out loud . Elmo threw me a curve with high(for him) PMPS tonight too...told Mogs I was gonna crate him and send him to her !!! I'm too old for this !!!Glad u got ur shopping finished..our daughter and son in law live in San Francisco and love it . Pray your night is uneventful ...you have earned it for certain !!!!!

 

Do L insulins offer any dosing flexibility? Also, when is the typical nadir for L insulins? I think I saw somewhere on this board that they are closer to 8 hours vs. Vestulin's 4-6 hour nadir. I guess if they don't cause such drastic drops, I might not have to worry so much about being gone from home or late at night when I'm asleep and not able to monitor. Right? Also, aren't the L insulins the ones you use to do the Tight Regulation Protocol? I am very interested in this process. Can you send me any info to read up on? I'm sure you guys/gals have stuff already ready for us newbies to just point and click. Or hoping...

 

We are in southern CA in the Los Angeles/Orange County area.

I'm sure Mogs would love an Elmo! Who wouldn't! Haha. Sorry you had an eventful day, too. I'm gonna head over and check out your thread today to see what naughty Elmo has been up to and how badly crazy he has been driving his meowmy!

 

Sounds like we've had poor Mogs on Overtime today between us two and all the others she so graciously devotes her time too. I'm surprised these ladies are not charging for their time yet!

 

There's a lot of info on the L insulins in the stickies on that forum.

 

See...you guys never disappoint! I haven't checked out the stickies yet but will. Thanks!

 

Shooting soon.... .5U or .75U????? Whatdayathink?

 

I think 0.5 u because the greens will leave him more insulin sensitive.

 

Ok...

But what does this mean? Insulin sensitive? I don't understand.

 

When they drop much lower than they've been a process can be triggered whereby the glycogen reserves in the liver are mobilized and turned into glucose which is dumped into the blood stream. This is an attempt to shore up the BG in what appears (to their system) to be an emergency. This can cause BG to shoot high in what we call a bounce, an overreaction. That can deplete those glycogen reserves such that the next time the BG drops lower than what they've been used to those reserves aren't sufficient to counter the drop. BG numbers can then plummet. I call the stored glycogen "bounce fuel". Too many drops into lower than usual numbers can deplete the bounce fuel so the next drop is unopposed by the compensatory mechanism.

 

Got it. Thanks for taking the time to explain Kris. So basically if his bounce fuel gets depleted, the next time he goes low, his system might not be able to bounce back and he could be facing a real hypo event. Yikes!
Will definitely be giving him .5 units tonight. Should I stick with this dose for awhile and see how he does on it?

 

If it was me, I'd give 0.5 u tonight and both AM and PM tomorrow.

 

Kris, curious your thoughts also on the question I asked Mogs earlier this afternoon.

Do you think Ozzy has always been on too high a dose (even at 1U) or do you think he is getting used to insulin, his body is healing, and maybe his diet change to wet only is making him need less insulin?

 

The bounce fuel (I've coined a new term!) builds up again over time as they either stay in higher numbers or BG is steady at a good level.

 

Sounds like a good plan. Thank you.

 

I like it!!!

 

There could be many factors. If he had high BG for a while, glucose toxicity could have developed which renders the cells less sensitive to insulin (insulin resistance) and a given dose, say 1 u, would have given you pinks and yellows. As insulin therapy proceeds some of the toxicity will diminish making the cells gradually more sensitive to insulin so that the dose will drop them more. That can trigger bouncing. As more time is spent in "healing numbers" as it's referred to here often, the toxicity reverses and the cells become responsive to (generally) lower doses.

There are other things at play as well such as the positive effect of low carb food, recovery from DKA, etc.

 

I have to admit I'm kinda jealous that Thomas (Coffee & Cats) is already in greens and she is giving no shots. So happy for little Thomas. Wish that for me kitty, too!

 

Quick fly-past. Ozzy did well holding in the pinks at PMPS.

For rest and safety I'd have also suggested the 0.5IU dose. You're still checking for ketones, right?

I'd still suggest checking till +4. The higher carb contraband keeps numbers higher for a while so they may influence the earlier numbers in the cycle before their effects wear off.


Mogs
.

 

It's raining cats and dogs over here in not-so sunny California right now. Sorry...I couldn't help myself!
We shouldn't complain...we have been in a drought for years and I know so many folks that are snowed in around the country!

 

Yes indeedy we are snowed in. I'd be happy to ship some to you so you can melt it down to water your plants!

 

I gave him the .5 dose tonight. Going to test at +2 and +4. Haven't been able to get a ketone test on him today. He is secretly peeing without me knowing! Think he wants his privacy back. I will try to get another test tonight and if not tomorrow for sure. He has been testing negative all along since he came home from the hospital so that is good.

 

Yikes. That sounds scary and cold. Hope you have lots of food and firewood and are staying warm.

Only if you send me some of that cheap Canadian Lantus I keep hearing about. Yep...it's confirmed...I sound like a drug addict. "But it's for my friend, not me". Yes...I do!