Another newbie from the UK

Hi,

I'm Kim and my lovely sugarcat is Shakti, 11 year old tabby (we also have her litter sister, tabby-and-white Freya). Shakti had been losing weight and her fur hadn't been in good condition for a few months, but I thought it was just age - kicking myself for it now...

Anyway, when we got home from work on Thursday she'd vomited a lot and was clearly woozy and distressed, so we rushed her off to the out-of-hours vets who did an immediate blood test and confirmed diabetes. She stayed at the vets for 24 hours on a rehydration drip + insulin drip and we brought her home on Friday night. Since then I have (anxiously) given her 4 injections (one in the morning, one at night) and my husband Drew will be taking his turn tonight... She's on Caninsulin, 1 unit every 12 hours. We haven't started the blood tests yet; the vet wants us to take her in in a couple of weeks to do a curve.

I've been reading through some of the topics and would like to say a pre-emptive 'thank you!' for such a great resource.

I have a couple of questions, forgive me if they are answered elsewhere and I didn't see them.

Our vet told us to feed Shakti 30 minutes before the injection (and she seems fine on this btw) but elsewhere I see people being recommended to feed after the injection - is this to do with the specific insulin involved?

Secondly, should I allow her to eat at all between the two meals / shots? I have taken the advice about wet food to heart, previously they were on dry food in the morning and wet at night, but it's going to be all wet from now on.

Any advice gratefully received. Isn't the internet a wonderful invention!

Kim (and Drew) and Shakti

 

Oops, I just found the bit about free-feeding in the FAQ. Nonetheless, if anyone has any experience with Caninsulin in particular, any guidance would still be welcome.

Thank you,
Kim

 

Welcome Kim,
Sorry to hear about Shakti, but happy to see you here! My name is Taline, and I'm also a newbie. My cat Bibo 12 yrs old was diagnosed with diabetes 33 days ago and I can only tell you, that there is so much hope and good results in treating your Baby Shakti, as long as you follow the advices of many of the experienced members on this site.
I want to share with you what worked for me and I'll be here to support you and help you with your questions.

First of all, every morning, I posted a new topic, with the name of my cat, so the members would follow me. I asked as many questions as I had in my mind, and immediately after my posts, members wrote to me and advised me with what to do.
I started Bibo on PZI Idexx (discontinued recently) but there are Lantus, Levemir, that you can get in US and I don't know about anything about Shakti's insulin.
The vet wanted me to give Bibo 1u twice a day,(BTW, never left Bibo at the clinic for doing the curve), so that same day, I realized by doing the curve myself, that Bibo didn't need a 1u, so i decreased it to lower numbers, and the members here followed through every step by watching Bibo's spreadsheet (please set it up, it's on FDMB's tech support topic).
I switched his food to only wet food fancy feast variety pate,and mixed a little water with each meal. I fed him 3 to 3.5 cans a day, half a can at a time (they're 3oz cans). So he got smaller meals during the day.It just happened that I was home, and I have a support system, that they can come and feed him, but I know there are automatic feeders out there.
I kept on posting and asking questions, and also checking his blood glucose to better determine the right dosage. And I can only tell you, that it wasn't easy in the beginning, because Bibo's not a friendy guy, he bit me, he ran away from me each time I tried to poke his ear, but I was so eager to get him help and I wasn't gonna give up.
3 weeks into this, Bibo's numbers are regulated, and I haven't given him a shot for 5 days now. I still check his bg everyday, but I'm happy to say that with patience, you can help him so much, and it's sooo rewarding. So please post as much as you can, with Shakti's name on the topic, and we will all help you, especially the ones who really know how to advise. One thing to add is to ask if Caninsulin is a long acting insulin or not. If it is, then it should be a good one. There are so many other members from UK who could also help you with more info on your insulin type. Best of Luck to you and Shakti. Cheers.
Taline

 

Hi Taline,

Thank you for being so welcoming and for the info, I shall follow your advice and try to post daily with news and questions.

Kim

 

Hi Kim,

We have a number of members from the UK who will be along to help. Unfortunately, we have very few people who use Canninsulin. (It is called Vetsulin in the states, and has been discountinued by a number of vets because of quality control problems.) Both that issue and how to feed is covered in this document: dhttp://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/vie ... f=19&t=302

You can certainly free feed. In fact, several small meals during the day and night are usually best as they soften the drops from the insulin. You do want to feed before giving Canninsulin as it often hits harder than other insulins. You want to make sure your cat's stomach has some food in it, and that it is not coming back up......So it's test, feed and shoot. (There are insulins where food can really affect the bg readings and it is suggested with those to withhold a couple hours food before testing.)

The other big part of this puzzle is food. Wet is best, but you do want to stay away from gravy as it has higher carbs. I think the food chart has a section for UK: http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm BUT DO BE CAREFUL. A change from dry food to wet made our Oliver's blood glucose levels go down 100 points overnight. So you need to be hometesting and stay on top of those readings.

Welcome! Glad you are doing lots of reading. Come back often with questions.

 

Thank you, I will!

 

http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Insuvet Great insulin, beef instead of pork which cats do not do well on, and available to you lucky people in the UK. Cannot understand UK vets starting cats on a porcine insulin when bovine is available. Please talk with you vet about switching and hopefully you will get your meter soon and start home testing.

 

Hi Kim ... Welcome to the FDMB community. You'e found the best place to be!

I'm in Essex. I will send my contact details to you by personal message. If I can help in any way, just pick up the phone. In the early days following diagnosis, I found the support of other members invaluable and a constant source of encouragement and support.

In answer to one of the feeding questions, I always did ...

1. Blood glucose test (Hometesting)
2. Insulin shot
3. Feed (Reward time!)

Please stay in touch and let us know how things are going.

Love

 

I always test feed and then shot got to get food on board so drop will not be so big I guess But that is what we did ok Trey only had to be on insulin Lantus 2 months he has 18 days off insulin Hope your kitty has a speedy recovery Kath

 

Hullo from Hastings.

We had three diabetics (one at a time, long story)

When Bushey came to us he was on 2x2units Caninsulin, and it did nothing for him, I might just as well use water. I still had some of Katy's so I changed him on to Insuvet (beef) PZI . Within weeks his numbers were down and he was putting on his lost weight.

Caninsulin is ideal for canines, but beef insulin is only one atom away from cats own insulin

I will send you a PM with my phone number

Mary

 

Hi Kim,
So glad to see Mary and Simon helping you with your questions in UK. Mary's suggestion of a different insulin which is a PZI is a great idea. My cat Bibo was on PZI and within days, his glucose was down and I haven't given him a shot for 6 days. So the help and the hope is there for you. Please post your questions any time. Love,

taline

 

It is good to feed before giving insulin because if your kitty doesn't eat, the insulin can take them too low - causing HYPOGLYCEMIA (low blood sugar). This condition can be dangerous, so please read about it.

So... if your kitty doesn't feel like eating --- no shot -- and try really hard to convince them to eat. In order to make sure that they eat at shot time, some people withhold food at other times. This is not the best practice, as small meals are easier on the pancreas, and we are all hoping that our kitty's pancreas will heal and start up again.

At shot time, the kitty doesn't need to eat a HUGE amount - a couple of spoons (~1 to 2 oz) is enough generally as long as more food is available.

Caninsulin is not the best for cats as others have already mentioned. There is a "Support Group" with specific tips and information about Caninsulin/Vetsulin and Humulin N. These insulins have relatively short duration in cats (less than 12 hours) and so are not recommended. You will probably see better results from a longer duration insulin like Lantus (glargine), Levemir (detemir) or the bovine one - PZI.

 

Hi and welcome to FDMB :mrgreen:

I'm English but live in Germany.

The UK vets don't seem to have heard about the recall on vetsulin (US version of Caninsulin). No one seems to have a definitive answer on whether Caninsulin should be withdrawn, but logic would state it must have the same problems, otherwise they would be pushing Caninsulin in the States.
That aside, very glad to see your vet started you at 1u.
Ethos of this board is start low, go slow.

Caninsulin is short acting, that is why you need food on board first because it starts working straight away unlike other insulins (Lantus/Lev).Unfortunately, bar the odd one, vets in UK can not/will not prescribe these insulins despite the success they have on FD.
Prozinc is the latest insulin in the UK that is specifically for cats and from what I've read here people are generally having good outcomes with it.

Curevs at the vets aren't very helpful, particularly if your cat gets stressed (Lucky did and her bg could go up by as much as 100 points!). Hometesting is a vital piece of the jigsaw.You can get glucometer and strips relatively cheap off ebay.One touch ultra or accu check are good ones. You can also get a glucometer from Boots/Lloyds but tend to be expensive-do have offers so you could shop around (depends how quick you can get one from ebay).Only use someone who has 99-100% feedback.
Can also get ultra thin lancets off ebay (go with the device you get for one touch glucometer).

You would want to get a preshot test for both shots and then a +1 and +4 (usually this is the peak action of caninsulin.It is short acting and usually only lasts for around 10 hours-another reason it isn't the best insulin.Cat will tend to have higher pre shot numbers because of it).

Fructosamine test won't give a great deal either as this measure the avearage glucose concentraion over the previous 1-3 weeks.Could have been 400 at preshot, 50 at +4 and you get a figure of 250 very little help in terms of dosing.

Don't want to overwhelm you but it's best to increase in .2u increments. Almost impossible to do using a u40 syringe. This we recommend you get u100 and convert the amounts.http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm
You will only be able to get BD brand.You want 3/10cc 1/2unit markings.Then you do need to do some eyeballing on getting the .2u part (makes more sense if you look at conversion chart)
We can help you with this.
Shakti doesn't have to eat 30 mins beforehand, just has to eat beforehand.As someone else has said, sometimes it's easier to inject when they have their face in the foodbowl.Important that food is on board though.
Can free feed, at present Shakti can't process the food and thus is literally starving all the time.
Ask your vet lots of questions, you will soon suss out if they do actually know much about FD,unfortuantely I'm not very hopeful (we went through 4 here! amd in the end I got all my dosing advice from here.4th vet left me to it quite quickly!)

Food-I fed Felix 'As good as it looks' pouches.3.4% carbs.
What are you feeding your cat?
You also need to get some ketodiastix-again from pharmacy.These test for keytones. Potentially lfe threatening condition and thus you need to monitor for them until kitty pretty much regulated.You'll find info on them on wiki.

Keep asking questions.
There's only a couple of us who really check the caninsulin isg, so good idea to post here where there are more eyes or at least cross post.