Another newbie...unfortunately.

Hi all,
My cat was just diagnosed as having diabetes. My vet gave me options, and I went with vetsulin. I am low income, and could not afford the $400/bottle for glargine she quoted. (I have since learned that this is Lantus)
I used to be insulin dependent myself (Lantus and humalog), so I am comfortable with managing human diabetes.
I was puzzled when I asked her if there was a human insulin that could be used-she sidestepped the question all three times. I also asked about monitoring at home and she kept telling me about an animal specific bgl meter that is expensive and strips even more money. I was astounded that at home testing seems to be 'meh' to my vet! Bring him in for curves, and we will adjust his dose as needed....

Of course, I went online to find out these answers that she either could not, or would not give me.
I am giving my Tim a shot of vetsulin 2x/day, 3 units. measuring his bgl with my meter as often as I can-luckily he is very tolerant.
I did expect to see some improvement in his bgl's, but nothing significant yet. I gave him 3 units last night at 8 pm (his bgl was 385), set out a can of Fancy Feast gravy lovers (small can), and retested him at 2 am-his bgl was 261. He wanted some food so I gave him 1/8 cup of Fancy Feast Gold mixed 50% with a D/M food the vet sold me.

What kind of curves should I expect with vetsulin? I know every animal is different, and I may need to increase his dosage at some point, but I am not comfortable doing that just yet. This is only day 2 of insulin.

The vet told me that once we start him on vetsulin, it is not recommended to change to another insulin as "we have to start all over" with curve testing at the vet. I don't buy into that, especially when I am testing at home.

I am not overwhelmed by my cat having diabetes, but by my vets apparent lack of knowledge or willingness to explain alternatives.
Thoughts?

 

I currently been using Vetsulin for the last year on Smokey. Today we go to vet to switch to Lantus. I don't know if we have to start over or not. But my thinking and I could be wrong is that as long as I'm testing we will be okay. I can run curves at home which my vet is on board with. Reading up on lantus the information states when switching insulin go with a dose of 20% lower than current dose. My vet mentioned once he will start much lower. I will discuss this today. I will not start lantus until Saturday because I will be home 4 days to monitor him. I am not comfortable changing then having to be at work when I don't know how he will respond. Again this is what I'm comfortable with. I don't always follow what my vet says. We kind of meet in the middle, we compromise. It works for us.

 

Hi and welcome! Tim is too cute! It's great that you are checking Tim's glucose at home. That will help keep him safe. We always check before feeding and try to get some tests during the cycle to see how low the current insulin dose takes him. That way you'll know to increase or decrease your dose. You are feeding him the gravy lovers Fancy Feast which is high in carbs, try to transition him to the pate(classic) type, which is lower carb. Also, if you can, try to get him completely off the dry food. Even the vets expensive stuff is very high in carbs. Make sure to continue to test his BG while changing his food because lowering his carbs can significantly lower his BG! Maybe with the change in diet you'll soon see lower glucose numbers. Good luck and please ask any questions you have.

 

You are correct. You are already on the right track testing at home and can do the curves at home as well. A lot of us here use a human meter for our cats because, as you correctly state, the strips are cheaper.

As Sharon14 mentioned, the Fancy Feast gravy lovers is high carbs. You could save it to have on hand in case Tim-Tim goes hypo (the gravy is good for raising low #'s in a hypo crisis). No need for an expensive prescription diet. The key is to find a low carb canned/wet/raw food under 10%. Here's a handy chart:
http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

Here's good info on why a dry food diet isn't recommended along with other useful advice: http://catinfo.org/

Since Tim-Tim is already on insulin, it's wise to transition him slowly to low carb food so you won't have a dramatic decrease in BG #'s.

Many members here buy Lantus at a reasonable price from Mark's Pharmacy: https://rxcanada4less.com/search.php

You'll get good help from FDMB members if you need help with adjusting the dose. Any time you need help, feel free to post in the Feline Health (Main Forum). If Tim-Tim goes too low or too high, that would also be a good place to post as more members will see your thread and can help.

It's hard to know till you have more BG #'s we can see. It will help if you can set up a spreadsheet so members can help you with dosing questions, curves, etc:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

If you need help setting up a spread sheet, let us know.

You have great info in Tim-Tim's Information section. It would be helpful to add some of it to your signature line: name of insulin, meter using, food feeding, other medical conditions (if applicable) to your signature line so other members can see it more quickly.

A lot of vets are very knowledgeable in many areas but quite a few unfortunately do not have knowledge about or experience with using other insulins for cats. That's why FDMB is terrific. You've come to the right place.

What a beautiful cat Tim-Tim is! Welcome aboard!

 

Welcome. You have some good instincts.

You will not have to take your kitty to the vet for curves because you can do it at home and it is more accurate (less stress hence not so high numbers).

Ditch the vet cat food. I heard that you can get a refund if you just take it back and say your cat will not eat it. Worth giving it a try. You can find others that are cheaper and better on the list that you were given above.

Be sure to put together your "hypo kit." Hopefully you will never have to use it but it is good to have on hand. This will include extra strips, honey, karo or maple sryup and some medium and high carb food. Print off this information and place it on your refrigerator. Have everyone in your household read it. How to Handle a Hypo

Our practice here is to not feed two hours before your shot time. Then you will test, feed and then shoot. With Vetsulin, I understand that after you test, you feed and then wait about 20 minutes until you shoot. The reason is because Vetsulin is considered a harsh insulin. You test before you feed (and no food two hours prior to your AM & PM shot) because food influences (increases) your blood glucose (BG) number and you don't want to dose based on a "food influenced" test.

Three units seem high to start off with but maybe someone will chime in regarding the dose. Mostly, we like to start low and then increase as we monitor.

No need to buy the expensive pet meter - Alpha Trak 2. You can go to any pharmacy or Walmart and get a human meter and strips. Many here use the Walmart Relion brand and either a Micro or Confirm meter. Both of these use minimal blood.

Just a note on Lantus. Not only you can go to Canada to buy at a much cheaper price (link given you above), but I have seen it also sold on craig lists. Some may feel uncomfortable purchasing it there but you may find a nursing home or medical person selling it. The price at least in my area is around 20-40 dollars per an unopen bottle.

There are many different sizes (gauges) of lancets. It is recommended when you are first starting out to use a 26-28 gauge. Also, it would be a good idea to pick up Neosporin WITH pain reliever to apply on the edge of the ears and don't forget to alternate ears.

It is a good idea to find a comfortable, consistent area where you can test your kitty. Provide lots of scritches and low carb treats for your kitty afterwards. It is always nice to have treats available for your kitty. Some use it after they have tested to reward. I like using Pure Bites. I have found it at Petsmart and other pet stores. It is freeze dried and the only ingredient is the meat i.e. chicken, duck, etc. If your cat likes it, then I would go to the dog section where it is cheaper than the cat package. It is bigger chunks but no problem in breaking it up. There is a link here somewhere that has a list of low carb treats but I don't have it right now.

That is all I can think of for now....

 

Thanks everyone. I am so blessed to have found this site!
I was having a hard time deciphering the spreadsheet, but found a thread that explained it! Tim's numbers and food are loaded. Hoping to see some improvement in the coming week. I am definitely changing his food!

 

Great job! I am unable to see Tim-Tim's SS. @Merlin, can you help Tami regarding how to make her SS visible?

 

Probably all you have to do is "share" it. You can find the "share" button on the top right.

 

Hi Tami and welcome. You have found a great group with really helpful people. They continue to give me support and encouragement and advice. Feel free to ask questions at anytime. Someone is always around to help. See you around the formum.

 

Ha, I thought I had the SS right. I just 'tried' to share it. Would someone check and see? Thanks!

 

I can see it!! Good job!

 

Thanks!

 

Love his nicknames BTW! Bubba's is "Bubba the Hut" , do you remember Star Wars? We really can't call him that anymore since he went from 25 lbs to a trim 17.1 .

 

I see the SS now, too. Great job!

 

Welcome to FDMB.

You may find some of these Secondary Monitoring Tools helpful.

 

Hi there, how's Tim-Tim doing this morning? We have a Bat-Bat here too which I am sure you will meet eventually. Some of the others mentioned that the Fancy Feast (FF) gravy lovers is high in carbs and you will want to get a lower carb one. Many of us use the Fancy Feast Classics, Chicken or Turkey and Giblets. The food chart that Cat Ma linked for you will give you lots of options for brands and flavors 10% and under. We are glad you are here and are testing which will be really important when you change his food, as you could see a big drop and will want to alter your dose accordingly. Glad you found us, this is an incredible group of people who are here to help you all that we can. See you around the forum.

 

I am not impressed with his numbers on Vetsulin so far. The vet tech told me to roll the vial, never to shake it-but it seemed the insulin had no effect the first day... so I looked up Vetsulin and it totally tells you to vigorously shake the bottle! I thought perhaps he did not get much insulin the first two shots, but other than the one 3.5 unit shot, the insulin does not seem to work well for Tim. Granted, I have not changed his food yet-that is on the docket for tomorrow when I shop.
My vet wants me to bring Tim in on Thursday to run curves. I am going to take him in, even though I am testing at home. I need her to give me a script for syringes for the lantus I am buying from Alan on here. Vetsulin is a U40 insulin and Lantus is a U100, so the syringes I have won't work. (I know how to convert, but want to have better control by using the right syringes-and if Tim ends up needing less than one unit dosage it will be difficult to measure in my U40 syringes)
I never imagined being thankful that I (used to be) an insulin dependent diabetic. My experience and knowledge make me confident that I can help my furbaby.
I am very shocked at just how little my vet seems to know, or willing to divulge. Thank you, Lord, that I found this group. You have all been so helpful, and I am so, so thankful!

 

It is amazing how little they understand diabetes and feline nutrition. Glad you looked up Vetsulin to find out to vigorously shake. I am tagging another vetsulin user so that she can offer you some help, as I am using Prozinc on my boy. Her name is Lucy and she is really nice! @Squalliesmom
We are all glad to have found this forum.

 

Does your state require an Rx for insulin syringes? (Ohio doesn't, so just checking)

 

Here in PA, it changes from Pharmacy to Pharmacy.

 

If it is pharmacy specific, you may be able to order online
Try http://www.adwdiabetes.com and see if you can order online.

 

Yes. I asked at Walmart. I also found online that for more than 10 syringes, a script is needed in NH.

Thanks BJM! I went to adw and ordered syringes with no problem at all!