Another newly diagnosed furbaby! LOTS of ??

Hello all! My name is Amy. My Mikey was diagnosed with FD about a week and a half ago. My vet and I did tons of research on the best protocols and he is on what I think (hope) is a good regimen, and i think we're off to a good start. We are doing his first full curve tomorrow which I hope will yield more answers, but I was so happy to find this board. It helps to know I'm not alone!

We switched him to an all-wet, low-carb diet and started on 1U Glargine 2 X/day. I can see the difference immediately: BG numbers much better (He was over 400 at the vet's the day he was diagnosed, now usually in 150-250 range. Still not ideal, I know, but getting there) and the litter box is decidedly less gross. I haven't done a full curve yet as the vet said you really need to wait a week or so to get a true reading. I have been testing before AM/PM meals (before injection) and about 6 hours out.

The numbers are a bit confusing to me in that there doesn't seem to be much of a pattern. Is this normal at first? For example, the other day he was 260 pre-shot AM, 240 at +5, 228 preshot PM, and 110 at +5 (yay!) from that shot. Except for the last test at bedtime, there seemed to be little change.

But today he was 213 preshot AM, 40 at +6 (gave Karo and food), 276 two hours later (to be expected?) and 209 preshot PM. I'll test him again later.

Nothing was different in feeding or dosage on those two days, but he showed little change on one and dropped WAY low today. Is this normal at first? He is on Clavamox for a UTI, could this be the cause?

A couple of other questions. Even testing WAY low today, he showed no symptoms that I could see. He's an older cat, so he sleeps a lot. I didn't notice a change in his pupils, and he was walking normally and jumped up on the counter just fine for his snack. Part of the problem is that he's very slightly neuro to begin with from a stroke when he was young, so something very subtle isn't noticeable. Short of following him around like a helicopter mom and pricking his poor ears every five minutes, is there anything else I can look for? Hopefully once we get his insulin right, I won't have to worry so much, but at this point, who knows...there's no rhyme or reason to his numbers that I can see. Eek!

Also, I've read on testing for Ketones, but how? I haven't tried yet (vet will test Saturday) but if you so much as poke a nose in the room while he's in the litter box, he hops right out and looks offended. Testing the pee bomb is out as well, because he shares the boxes with two other cats, and the only way to isolate him is to lock him in the bathroom, which does NOT go over well, long term. Any ideas?

Mikey will be 12 in March. He's very skinny right now (needs to gain 2-3 pounds). Any ideas on how to facilitate the weight gain? I know getting him regulated is the biggest thing, but what's the best way to put the most weight on him the fastest?

Thanks in advance for your advice. It's a huge relief to have found a group of people who understand!

 

Re: Another newly diagnosed furbaby!

Welcome Amy & Mikey

WOW! You and your vet have done your homework and you are way ahead of most of us when we first got here. CONGRATS!!!

You are already on a great insulin and a great diet, but if 1u is taking him that low you may already want to drop it just slightly, perhaps down to .5u or .75u. I know my Maxwell went off insulin very quickly after his diet was changed to a low carb high protein canned diet so your Mikey might be headed that way as well.

I have no personal experience with that antibotic so I will leave that up to the experts here.

Just wanted to pop in quickly and welcome you to the best place on the web that you never wanted to be but will be so blessed to have found.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Re: Another newly diagnosed furbaby!

One quick addition, 5 hours after PM injection but before his bedtime snack (good-sized spoon of Merrick's wet), Mikey was at 72 (yay).

Those of you who don't/can't free feed, how many/how often do you give snacks? I've been doing a little wet food (a big spoon, maybe 1/2 a small can worth?) midday and before bed. Free feeding, even with a timer, is out of the question because I have two other cats who don't need extra snacks.

Also, when you do a curve, do you give snacks as normal during the day or only the two feedings with insulin? We're doing our first tomorrow (at home, because Mikey stresses at teh vet's to the point of panting and throwing himself around the cage...not really conducive to an accurate reading!).

 

Re: Another newly diagnosed furbaby!

Amy,

I have 13 cats, two of which are diabetics and everyone here eats what the diabetics eats...Just plain old fashioned Friskies pate style canned catfood. On that diet my chunky kids got lean and muscular, one diabetic Maxwell went into remission, and my skinny minis gained weight.

Now with 13 leftovers is an unknown word at out house. :lol: But that said I feed 4 times a day, 3 meals are fresh out of the can and the last one is frozen so they can nibble on it overnight as it thaws out. But I also have the advantage of being home with my cats all day long so I can feed at 6am, 12, 6pm and right before bed at 10pm.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang.

 

Re: Another newly diagnosed furbaby!

I wanted to comment on the lower number and the UTI.

Any infection, pain, or stress will cause a diabetic's numbers to be higher. After the infection is dealt with, the diabetic's numbers will start to lower and possibly reach remission.

I agree that you should lower the dose to .5u or .75u. Getting a 40 is an automatic dose reduction. It's very possible that Mikey is going into remission now that his infection is clearing.

One thing to remember is that diabetics are diabetics for the rest of their lives, even if they don't need insulin anymore. That means they can never have high carb food again, and you have to keep a close eye out for infections and not be afraid to start up insulin therapy again if it's needed for a short period of time because of a secondary problem.

It sounds to me that you are in great hands with your vet, and Mikey is well on his way!

 

Re: Another newly diagnosed furbaby!

Thank you for your responses. I hope things are heading in the right direction. We were supposed to run a curve today after starting insulin last Friday, but Mikey had other ideas. His BG was 161, well below where the vet gave him the cutoff for his shot...so, no shot. Leave it to a cat. (OTOH, that's not a terrible number, and it's the third time in four days he's been too low to inject-progress?) I will definitely talk to her about lowering the dose of his insulin, though, because some of the lows are TOO low. We'll try again for the curve tomorrow.

I will not ever change his diet back to dry. He LOVES the Fancy Feast and the Merrick's he gets for snacks. The trick is going to be switching my other two onto the same diet. One I think will be fine, but the other one does NOT like canned food (and he's the one who needs it, as he had a total urinary blockage). I'm concerned about taking him off the RX diet (though I know many don't think those are any good) because he is doing well on it. There is a canned pate version that is decent (has some corn flour but that's the only carb listed and it's way down the list. Even using minimum numbers to calculate, it comes out at around 10%. Maybe I'll try it again, but I worry about him not eating. Luckily Mikey is not picky in the least.

 

Re: Another newly diagnosed furbaby!

Here's a link to the dosing protocol for Lantus for cats: http://felinediabetes.com/Roomp_Ran...ransitioning_Dry_Food_Addicts_to_Canned_Food_

Also, I would highly recommend you read this section from the same site: http://www.catinfo.org/#Cystitis_. It explains the connection between dry food and urinary tract problems, and why any canned food will help out with those a great, great deal, far more than the prescription dry diet will.

 

Thanks! I'll start a new thread for Jesse James (my urinary blockage boy) sometime soon.

I started a spreadsheet for Mikey, and if anyone would like to take a look and comment, that would be great. I'm not sure yet what I'm looking at. His numbers were decent today-under 200 AM and PM. He did not get insulin (I know some are comfortable giving a low dose, but I don't feel close to ready for that and won't for a while).

My question on that is, his numbers were decent, but not quite "normal"...As I said before, ketone testing is going to be pretty difficult (we're due for a vet check tomorrow, so I may have one done there), and I really hope he's ok there (he had a urine test last week and the vet didn't mention any abnormalities on that front) because I'm still overwhelmed with getting his BG under control. But anyway, I'm concerned about him being out of normal range, but not high enough to inject. Should I be, or is he taking steps in the right direction?

Also, if he gets injected in the AM, I'll be doing a curve to take to the vet with us. I have been giving him a snack (1/4 of a 5.5-oz. can) at about +5...should I not do that when I do the curve, or should I keep the curve test as normal as possible?

Thanks again for all of your help so far! It's so good to know we're not alone!

 

I think you are wise to wait until you get over 200 and then reduce the dose from one unit. He is a brand new diabetic and has other issues.

The only way we got a urine sample from Oliver, who wouldn't pee if anyone was watching, was to put him in a room alone with a box of aquarium gravel in a clean litter box. The urine won't soak in and we could get a sample.

 

Wanted to say welcome and to congratulate Mikey for such goood numbers! Bean was dx in the 400's and curved at the vet close to 500. Thank goodness for this site and not doubling the dose to 2units! She is now in remission and as you will be able to tell from her spreadsheet, was not on insulin long at all. We used PZI BCP. So it is possible that Mikey could do the same!

Sooo glad you home tested! What a gooood mommabean.

As far as feeding for my girls as I have 3, I would test Bean and if test warranted a shot, we would do the shot while she finished eating. Allowing her to eat a bit first to make sure it stayed down. She was not prone to throw up, but I felt safer letting her eat a bit, picking it up for 10 min or so, then letting her finish and while she was deeep into the bowl, giving the shot then.
I would leave food down for them. Mixing wet with a bit of water added kept it moist for them. Off to work I would go, and when I came home, I would pick up and toss any that was left over and repeat. I was not that good at making sure she did not eat a thing before her amps test - just did not understand that was important - as I left a small portion out overnite for grazing and did not know if she ate any right before testing or not. The pm test was better as I was home and could take up food 1 or 2 hours before our pmps shot. But she did get to graze on a certain amount during the day while I was gone and during the night while I was sleeping. I did have 2 that would share, so I am not for sure how much she really ate herself. I did not monitor how many oz she was getting as she was sooo hungry at the first of the dx. As the bg was regulated, she became less starved and started eating smaller amounts. And as I understand it, that is a normal action for diabetic kitties.

My Ketone testing was a difficult task. It is very hard to know who has gone in the box when you have 3 and she just flat hated to be locked up in another room until she did her business. I would have to sit at this puter, watching down the hall like a hawk, waiting for her to do her business. Then I would run - ok walk very fast down the hall - go into the room and look out the window while she was peeing. Rush over to her and stick the strip in the 'puddle' and grab a test before she covered....That was the best I could do. I believe once I got her to let me put the strip under her rump and get it in the stream. She is not a super private user, but I could not stand over her while she was in the box, I would have to act buzy doing something else in the room and snag the test quickly! lol

Good luck w/ Mikeys curve and keep us posted.....This is the BEST PLACE you will find to help you help Mikey :razz:

 

Thanks. No curve again today; 176 this morning, so no shot (Good? Bad?). My vet moved the appointment to Wednesday to give us a few more days to see what happens since we haven't gotten a curve yet. I'm going to ask her about very small injections at between 150-200, but I feel like we need to get his regular dose sorted first (I suspect we need to reduce a bit). Thoughts?

What should I make of these numbers-too low to inject but a but above normal? I'm hoping it's good news! Is there anything I should be watching for? I haven't noticed a change in water intake; Mikey is obsessed with running water and came running when I started the shower and drank a good bit, but less than he had been before his dx. The water bowl isn't going down as fast either. How worried should I be about ketones etc.? His breath doesn't smell fruity or like acetone at all, just like his stinky cat food. He has a ravenous appetite, but no different than before he was diagnosed. He's very food motivated, so it's hard to notice any differences in his appetite unless he doesn't have one...which has never happened.

 

Here's what the protocol says about low preshots: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=147

It is wise to test any diabetic for ketones, at least once a week. Cheap and fairly easy - if you don't mind stalking the litter box :mrgreen:

 

Thanks! I'll ask the vet about ketone testing etc. when we see her Wednesday. I read the protocol and I think I understand it, but we've only been on insulin a week, and I know we're not ready for that! Maybe in a couple of weeks, when I can get my head around everything.

One cool thing...Just now I turned on the bathroom tap for Mikey and he came running as always, but just took a sip or two and quit drinking to study Jesse James's dish. Before he was dx, he'd drink until I'd turn it off, sometime until he'd throw up. I feel terrible that I didn't realize sooner. He's been obsessed with running water since I got him 10 years ago. The first day I had him home, he hid all day until evening, when I looked down to see him standing at the sink next to me as I brushed my teeth. He always comes running when someone turns the water on, which, in retrospect made it difficult to notice when he first started drinking more. He also has been known to sleep in the bathroom sink. Silly boy!

It's hard to see because I see him all the time, but I think he's feeling much better between getting the UTI cleared up and being treated for the FD.

 

what a good report!

My sugar Bean started haunting the sink, peeing more and loosing weight... All at the same time I was packing for 3+ months to move out of state, Tx, 9+ hours to Mo... I thought she took up a new habit of drinking from the sink and basicially living on the bathroom counter and wanting a constant stream of water running for the bottom drinking, then I also complained about Tidy cat changing the way they made the litter...must be making this stuff cheaper, went thru 3 auto litter boxes, damn - they just dont make them like they used to, then the weight loss from 12.9 to 8, she must just be depressed due to the move..... When I got back to Tx - less than 6 months later with another bout of paking and moving, she went to her old vet, and omg...she is a what??? diabetic??? never even heard of that.... She even had a UTI while I was in Mo. The new vet never took urine or blood as it was during the worst snow storm since 1930. BTW... why am I filling the dry auto feeder soooo much. I had 3 girls and they all ate the same and used the same boxes, so I did not know who was eating the most but figured it was not Bean as she was loosing so much weight. ohmygod_smile

I still to this day hold my breath every time I see Bean going for the bathroom and almost feel faint if she even looks up at the counter area... nailbite_smile
So far, yes, she has jumped up to the counter, and I do run a bit of water and yeaaaaahhhh! she is not interested!

Just wanted to share how we all do not catch all of the signs that are right in front of our faces....sure wish they would learn to talk ENGLISH and not KITTY! LOL

Hang in there. It sounds like your head is catching alot already...go Mikey go