Anyone use transdermal glipizide

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Robang, Feb 11, 2020 at 10:23 AM.

  1. Robang

    Robang New Member

    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Hi, I'm Angela and have a 10 year old male who has had urinary stones for years and was recently diagnosed with diabetes.
    My Simon has been on glipizide pills for 6 months and it's not helping. Vet wants to try the transdermal form because I'm Leary about giving insulin. Had a cat years ago that the first dose caused a diabetic coma and I had to rush him to the vet.
    Has anyone ever used this?
    He's on DM wet exclusively and it's not helping either.
    Thanks so much!
     
    Deb & Wink likes this.
  2. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi Angela,

    I can't comment on the transdermal form of glipizide specifically, but only on glipizide generally. ...It is not 'recommended' for diabetic cats, but tends to be used more as a medicine of last resort where insulin cannot be given for any reason. ...Glipizide can be problematic in that it works by forcing an already exhausted pancreas to work even harder. The pancreas can produce more insulin initially as a result of this. But the stress on the pancreas can mean that over time the diabetes actually becomes worse, and quite a few cats who start out on glipizide end up on insulin anyway... Insulin provides a sort of 'spa break' for the panceas and enables it, and the body, to heal. So the two are quite different in that regard.
    Also, be aware that cats can hypo on glipizide just as they can on insulin...

    It sounds like you had a truly awful experience with your previous diabetic kitty. I am truly sorry to hear that. And you are not alone in having this kind of expererience, albeit that it is not a 'common' occurrence. I totally understand your reluctance to use insulin again. ...Hypo is always a risk when the dose is too high. And, truth be told, quite a few vets prescribe a starting dose that is too high. That is why we recommend starting at a very low dose and working up from there as necessary.
    Hometesting of blood glucose greatly reduces the risk of hypo, and also helps produce the best possible outcomes in terms of managing diabetes. Further, quite a few diabetics will go into remission and be able to become diet controlled.

    Would you be willing to learn to hometest? It really isn't as hard as it sounds. It's quick to do. And many cats actually come to like the process if they are rewarded with treats or a cuddle. If you'd like to learn we can help you do that.

    Eliz
     
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  3. Robang

    Robang New Member

    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Thanks for answering! Simon is 22lbs and was on CD which i feel caused his diabetes. I honestly didn't believe the vet when he said he was diabetic since except for the water consumption and urinating he has no other symptoms. He's always drunk allot and peed alot because of his food. I'm weary to use fancy feast because of his crystals. If it safe for cats with crystals?
    I would be willing to learn how to home test. What do you do if you go away? I'm not a world traveler lol but do go away 3 weeks a year.
    I'm just do confused with all this.
    I've always had sick cats so treating them doesn't bother me. My other baby was recently diagnosed with mouth cancer, so we treating her also. It's just overwhelming at times.
     
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  4. Lisa and Witn (GA)

    Lisa and Witn (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I agree, learning to home test is the best way to reduce the risk of hypoglycemia. Also when you start using insulin, it should be no more than 1/2 to 1 unit twice a day. The best insulins that work best in cats are Lantus, Levemir, ProZinc and BCP PZI. The first two are human insulins and can get from any pharmacy. If these are the insulins your vet prescribed, ask for the prescription for pens instead of vials. If you are in the US many of our members order their insulin from Mark's Pharmacy in Canada. Their cost is much lower than US prices.
     
  5. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    While all drugs can be compounded into a transdermal medicine onlynly a few drugs have proven effective when used transdermally. One problem with transdermal and cats is that the concentration in the gel is limited and the surface area inside of the ear is limited. If the oral glipizide is not working I say trying transdermal glipizide is not worth trying. Glipizide is not listed here:
    https://bcpvetpharm.com/products/transdermals
    I would now go to insulin injections.
     
  6. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Hi Angela and sugardude Simon! Welcome.
    Not helping? What do you mean? More of an explanation would be useful.

    How are you monitoring the feline diabetes right now? Any blood glucose results available from your vet or maybe fructosamine test results? Curves done at the vet?

    Not many cats use the glipizide because of the reasons Elizabeth already gave you. If the oral glipizide isn't working, the transdermal form is unlikely to help either.

    What kind of urinary stones? There are several different kinds. Diagnosed how?
    Cystocentisis at the vet office or from a urine sample taken at home and taken to the vet for lab testing?

    Wet food diets can often resolve the issue of crystal formation. Was the Hill's CD food the dry, wet or both?
    Has your male cat ever experienced a partial or complete urethral obstruction? (More common in male cats.)
    If you have noticed small urine puddles in the litter box, smaller than a 50 cent piece or Susan B Anthony dollar, that can be a sign of partial urinary blockage.

    No weight loss? no signs of diabetic neuropathy? (nerve damage in the back legs, walking on his hocks), no signs of excessive hunger? no evidence of ketones ever?
     
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  7. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    SLGS. Start Low and Go Slow with the insulin dose.
    Get a good insulin for cats, Prozinc, Lantus, Levimir
     
  8. Robang

    Robang New Member

    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Thank you
     
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  9. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Fancy Feast is probably not the best if kitty is prone to crystals. It is higher in phosphorus that you should feed. There are quite a few wet or raw food options that are low carb and lower phosphorus. One week after Neko had her diagnosis, my other kitty got crystals and idiopathic cystitis. I started feeding him CD, but it’s way too high in carbs for a diabetic, and Neko was stealing his food. So his vet recommended low phosphorus raw food. That plus plenty of water added helped both cats. More detail in diet for urinary conditions on Dr. Lisa Pierson’s website, here. Click on the blue, it’s a link.
     
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  10. Robang

    Robang New Member

    Joined:
    Tuesday
     
  11. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Hi Angela, you just quoted my reply to you, but did not say anything.

    Could you repeat what you wanted to say please?

    p.s. maybe you hit "Post reply" too soon?
     
  12. Robang

    Robang New Member

    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Hi,
    I wasn't monitoring his diabetes because we were waiting to see if food alone would lower his sugar. The vet was keeping records, not I.

    He has strivite crystals. Has them for years now. Never had a complete obstruction but has had partial. He was on cd dry and canned for 5 plus years. About 6 months ago he was partially blocked and his sugar level was found. Other than drinking and urinating a lot he had no other signs of diabeties. The urinating and drinking was always a lot so I didn't think anything of it. He was then switched to DM and glipizide. The drinking and urinating slowed so I thought it was working till his partial block last weekend. Because of my fear my vet decided to try transdermal glipizade for a month. I asked about fancy feast because right now we are trying to get his appetite back. HeHe has no signs of weight loss or neurapothy. He did have excessive hunger before this weekend.
     
  13. Robang

    Robang New Member

    Joined:
    Tuesday
     
  14. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    You should be able to get the records from the vet on the monitoring done there.
    I have copies of all my cats vet records, and keep them in a folder at home.
    My vet office/clinic is even willing to email me the lab work results and any handwritten notes in my cats file.

    I like having them on hand for reference.

    p.s. You do not have to click on the "Reply" button in the lower right hand corner of the previous post to respond.
    You only have to start typing away in the text box below the last reply and then click on the "Post Reply" icon to send your reply.
     
  15. Robang

    Robang New Member

    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Thanks for the heads up! I guess i was doing it wrong.

    My vet will give me anything I ask for. Been going to him over 30 years. He's trying to pacify me with the glipizide. He wants to do the insuline. I was having second thoughts about it that's why I asked if anyone had any experience with it.
    I was having a hard time believing his sugar levels were from diabetes because he's presenting so differently from my first cat that had it. I honestly thought months ago when he told me , that it was stress induced from being at the vets with a blockage. He didn't lose weight, he wasn't ravenous, didn't drink an abnormal amount, breath didn't smell, his gait was fine. I just couldn't bring myself to accept the diagnosis. After seeing the way he is reacting this time I am convinced it is. I have one cat fighting mouth cancer and really didn't want this to be so. I guess I will have another talk with my vet tomorrow.
     
  16. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    I've had 2 cats with oral cancer. One of them was during the same time as I had my diabetic cat. I did hospice level care, supportive care, pain management, not chemotherapy or radiation. Not operable, saw an vet oral surgeon/dental specialist. Squamous cell carcinoma grows fast and the outcome and life expectancy with chemo was not much better than with the supportive care alone. People make different choices for their cats. "Pawspice" was my choice.

    It's very difficult to deal with 1 ill cat needing attention. Even harder to deal with multiple medical issues in cats, as well as all the other things going on in your life. Like work, laundry, grocery shopping. It upends your life and you learn to re-prioritize quickly. Dusting? I don't see any dust?

    As Larry and Kitties said, the transdermal glipizide is not among the medications that work well being absorbed through the skin. He has some specialized knowledge and experience. I'd trust what he said and not use the transdermal glipizide.

    Sorry, but it really is time to try insulin for your cat.
    Prozinc, lantus, levimir are the best ones.

    Please, keep asking questions. We have lots of experience here, even though we are laypeople. Keep your vet in the loop and let him/her guide you. Use us as an adjunct resource. We can overload people with TMI. TMI is Too Much Information.

    Keep us posted on how the vet visit went. Be well. We are here for you.
     
  17. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    My Billy was like your kitty, didn't lose weight, no obvious symptoms at first. Every cat is different. I agree it's time to try insulin, but this time, you are here with us and can learn ways to keep your kitty safer. Home testing BGL is really the key to this. No human would take insulin without checking their blood glucose level, but so many vets don't even suggest home testing.

    Deb is right, you've got lots of canned and raw diet options. Many on this site feed Fancy Feast, but it is high in phosphorus so probably not the best option. Dr. Lisa put together a great canned cat food list here, that not only shows you which foods are high protein and low carb, but also lists phosphorus levels, so you can make good choices for your baby. You might want to check out the Nature's Recipe, grain free in broth. Low carb, and low phosphorus as well. The Pinnacle also looks like a good choice, and the Sheba perfect portion pates are not bad. They aren't as low in phosphorus as the others, but still pretty low and probably easier to find. Some of the Tiki Cats would be awesome, you just have to choose the lower phosphorus flavors.
     
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  18. Robang

    Robang New Member

    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Thanks so much. That is exactly what we are doing for our oral baby. I take her weekly for steriod and antibiotic shots. She's still eating and playing though her tongue is now side stepping. She's a tiny 4lb baby that has had nothing but illness since we rescued her: botadello, stomatitis and now this. She is 5.

    I am going to the vet Friday and will talk about the insulin. How does your cat react to getting the shots? I'm afraid mine will wind up hiding. He also likes to eat throughout the day, so how would that work? I was told they eat then you give the shot. How would you test levels? So many questions. Thanks for your help!
     

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