At A Loss

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Shellz, Jun 11, 2018.

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  1. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    I've been stalking around the site for a little while picking up on diabete feeding etc.
    My kitty will be 17 in September and has had diagnosed IBD for just over 4 years. She has been pretty stable with that being on raw meats and 5mg pred each day - being in AU, we don't have the other steroid choices available in US unfortunately.

    But at the end of last year she developed diabetes which has been a battle. I firstly tried her on a natural tonic because she absolutely refused to eat at set times for insulin after 4 days - she learned the routine.
    When that failed, I was forced to put her on tin foods which meant she would eat on que.
    She was slowly losing weight while we got her insulin right and I have been taking her to the vet for glucose tests due to my fainting issues with blood.
    I have bought a Accu-Chek Performa and am expecting the test strips tomorrow. I know I have to just suck it up for her sake and get through testing her myself!

    We found the Caninsulin was metabolised too fast - she was on 2u morning, 2u night. The vet added a third half dose inbetween so she stops spiking.
    But shortly after that, I put her onto Lantus so she could just have the 2u morning and night and everyone seemed to think it's a better insulin.
    I took her to the vets after 10 days of being on it for testing cause she was losing a heap of weight - no excessive drinking or peeing. Within 5hrs of having her morning shot, she was down to 8.1. Sorry, I don't know what that is in the US, but healthy reading over here are between 3.9 - 8.3.

    Two weeks after going on it, she was hiding all day and was walking on her hocks when she did come out.
    I just had a gut feeling the Lantus wasn't agreeing with her and decided to put her back on the Caninsulin that evening at her usual insulin time of 6pm. She then had a major neurological turn from 11:30pm to 6am. We thought maybe a stroke. She wouldn't move, apart from persistant head movements.
    Unfortunately I couldn't get hold of the on call vet - she was already out with a client.
    I rushed in for an early appointment and all blood work came back great.

    But she continues to lose so much weight - her weight loss is what is going to kill her.
    I have kept a complete diary of food, pee and poop if it helps.
    I don't know what else to do to stop her wasting away.
  2. Becky & Baby Girl Kitty

    Becky & Baby Girl Kitty Well-Known Member

    Sep 15, 2017
    It sounds like you have been through a lot & im sorry for that. This forum is very kind & knowledgeable on diabetes. I’m sorry to say but most vets, unless they are specialists, are not very informed on this matter.
    My cat has recently lost some weight due to gastric problems & IBD. My vet is having me give her cyano B12 which is to absorb more nutrients from the food. I have not weighed her in 3 weeks but she hasn’t seemed to loose anymore. You could ask your vet if this might help & see if your vet knows about this. I inject it sub-q, same as her insulin. It is not something you can overdose as the body uses what it needs & discards the rest.
    If you can overcome your fear... the testing & a proper dose of insulin will help a lot! Please keep asking questions here & some of the other more experienced members can guide you. I hope this has helped! Best wishes...
    Noah & me (GA) and Nan & Amber like this.
  3. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Mar 19, 2016
    Oh, my, sounds like you've been having quite a time with it! Your poor little girl.

    Good for you for working to overcome your problems with testing. Take it one step at a time-- maybe try testing yourself first (with a buddy nearby in case you have a reaction), slowly work up to it. When you get there, I think you'll be really happy you did push through-- testing is absolutely the best way to keep your kitty safe while on insulin.

    What is her current dose of Caninsulin? What dose of Lantus was she on?

    Just so you know, this sounds like it might have been a hypoglyclemic event from too much insulin. Of course, I can't say for sure, not being a vet and not examining your kitty, but here's my reasoning as to why it's at least a possibility: Lantus is a "depot" insulin-- unlike an "in and out" insulin like Caninsulin, it's not all gone after 12hrs, there's a continuous "depot" held in reserve. When you switched back in the evening, both insulins were in play simultaneously and it might have been too much.

    It's also possible that the Caninsulin dose itself was just too high. Insulin needs can change from the last time she was on it, especially if you've completed a food switch to low-carb canned food in the meantime. Again, once you get the home-testing down, these kinds of things can be a lot easier to puzzle out. You'll feel much more in control of the whole situation.

    I'm not sure yet about the weight loss and hock-walking. With respect to FD, both would be considered signs of poor regulation and spending a lot of time in high numbers, but that's not quite consistent with the lack of excessive drinking, so I'm not sure if there might not be another cause. I'm kind of suspecting that the IBD is playing a big role here-- as @Becky & Baby Girl Kitty says, B12 can be really helpful for both IBD directly and also help with diabetic neuropathy (hock-walking).

    There's definitely a lot of moving parts to the puzzle here, but I'm glad you're here to try to figure things out! We will help in any way we can.
  4. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Dec 3, 2016
    I can't answer all your questions...
    You said "she would eat on que". Are you in the UK? We have some members there that could help with food choices.
    In Canada there is a recall on Accu-Chek strips.
    Anything neurological can be serious but the process of diagnosis involves eliminating a lot of possible causes and testing can be expensive. Even after that you might only get an educated guess. I've been down this path more than once.
    "Walking on her hocks" is a sure sign of something. I just woke up and I'm a bit ill but hopefully someone else will fill in the blanks.
    Tin foods, what we usually call "wet" is your best option. There are guidelines in the sight for carbohydrates etc.
    The weight loss issue. Is she eating enough but passing more or just no appetite? We can recommend appetite stimulants. How is her water consumption?
    At 17 she is a senior cat but she could have 5 or 6 years left, it's happened to me.
    Your fainting issues. Can you fold a paper towel over the ear and sneak under that so you don't actually witness the poke? I do Noah almost by feel but it's still like poking through one tissue and not the second. Keep posting, be vigilant and be patient. It's Monday morning here so help is coming.
  5. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Sep 6, 2015
    Couple of things stand out to me. I think the Lantus dose was to high to start with. Then it takes at least 3 days for depot to establish. I don't think you gave it enough time for kitty to adjust. As they say this is a marathon. Or feline diabetes (FD) is not a day trip, it's a long journey.

    Glad you are working on your phobia of blood and needles. It really is the best way to help your kitty. Pick one insulin start at low dose, stay here to learn when to change dose, it really needs to be consistent. Give it time to show you what it can do. It's not a quick fix. I'm still adjusting after 5 months, oh but the progress Olive has made is wonderful even if we have a long road ahead. There will be road bumps to conquer, but it can be done.
  6. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Jun 26, 2015
    When was her last bloodwork done? Walking on the hocks an also be a sign of low potassium levels, something not uncommon in cats with FD.
  7. donnalea

    donnalea Member

    Jun 18, 2016
    Do you have a friend, neighbor or relative that can help you with the testing? I know that it is hard to ask others for help, but it might help you get over your fear of blood and it will definitely help kitty.
  8. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    Thank you for that.
    I asked one of my vets (he has semi retired now, so will ask the one Sushey see regularly now) about B12 shots over a year ago and he said they don't usually do them or carry them - said he didn't have needle size for B12 for cats ..... unless I misunderstood.
  9. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    I definitely will try testing myself first. I want to know what she has to go through before I have to put her through it. My Accu-Chek meter came with a Lancer thingy and I read that some use it on their little paws instead of the ear. One of the trained nurses at the vets said it was ok too.
    I'd feel a whole lot better doing it on her paw pad, but is it not as good as the ear?
    I can't use a lance on her ear cause it's so thin, right? I'm worried I'll poke a needle right through.

    At the moment she has:
    2u between 6-6:30am, 1u between 2-2:30pm, 2u between 10-10:30pm of Caninsulin ....... using 40U needle syringes.

    When on the Lantus she was having 2u 6-6:30am, 2u 6-6:30pm using the pen.

    Ahhhhh huh. Thanks.
    Vet didn't seem to think it was a stroke. She mentioned a hypo, but thought her figure was high enough that it wouldn't happen but couldn't be sure.
    She was definitely acting strange. Had I known, I would have given her honey. I feel really bad letting her go on like that.
    But so glad I didn't give her the morning shot - she wouldn't eat.

    Later that day, after recovering (she slept a lot due to not sleeping all night) she was walking fine again - no hock or wobbly legs.
    Over night she seems to have gone through a bit more water than normal......although, I gave her 'no added salt' sardines to inspire her to eat last night for her shot.
    But this morning she is eating like a horse! I've been opening can after can the past week trying to find something she will eat cause she has become picky.
    I added some raw venison into 1/2 can of Fancy Feast classic Whitebait/tuna for her over night food and she ate it. Felt we had nothing to use and raw has always been the better option for her IBD.
    I has always had food down for Sush since she got IBD cause if she doesn't eat regularly, she will vomit either bile or her next lot of food.
  10. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    No, I'm in Australia.
    I don't work, so I'm fortunately able to keep a close eye on her all day and there hasn't been any more hock walking since.
    She is super skinny at only 4.47kg. For some kitties that doesn't sound overly bad, but Sushey is a big cat and at a healthy weight was 6kg.
    She was eating enough.....I put her on tins I felt were the most natural and best (I hoped) for both conditions. Feline Natural and Ziwi. They are grain, soy, potato, preservative, gluten, GMO, corn, cereal, dairy, rice and filler free.
    The only think Ziwi has in it that I was a little ify about was chickpeas.
    Also, especially Ziwi, is loaded with organs to get all the required nutrients, which I think Sush may have an issue digesting. Her poop did become huge and increased to 4 times a day when I introduced Ziwi cans.
    I will put up my daily diary on her that started just before she really started going down hill. That shows everything she has had and put out. Perhaps you guys will spot where I'm going wrong somewhere.
  11. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Apr 3, 2018
    Welcome to the board. It would be very helpful if you would create a signature so that we can review information on your kitty without scrolling through the previous posts. This info consists of name, gender, weight, diagnosis date, type of insulin used, type of meter used, type of food, any other medical concerns or issues, geographic location if it's not in your profile, anything that is pertinent. This signature can be updated and edited at any time. To create the signature just go to your name in the upper right corner of this page, select it, and then select signature. We all wish you well and want to help.
    Noah & me (GA) likes this.
  12. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    Ahhhh, vet put her on the same units as the Caninsulin. She seemed to think it would be the equivalent.
    I was using the Lantus pen. I wished it had half doses as well.
    When Sushey first went on Caninsulin, the vet said to give it a week to work before taking her back for the glucose test. But with Lantus, she said give it 2 weeks. I figured Lantus took a bit longer to take real effect. It had lowered her level 10 days after being on it.

    One of the 'gut feelings' for changing back to Caninsulin when I saw her walking on her hocks exactly 2 weeks of being on Lantus, is because Sush had gone downhill so much in those 2 weeks. The hock walking worried me. She was no longer sociable and she slept all day.
    She had been on the 3 x Caninsulin a day for a short time before changing to Lantus and those 3 shots had started to pick her up to her happy normal self again. I wish I had of left her on that, but I really thought changing to a long lasting one would be better for her in the long run.
    At this stage, I will keep her on Caninsulin. I just want to get her stable and back to health - if that's possible. I hope she hasn't gone too far.
  13. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    I got a full blood work down last thursday morning when I took her in after her episode. Everything came back great. Vet thought for sure her electrolytes would be low, but they were fine.
    Her potassium was on the high end of low, but vet said it was ok.
    Squalliesmom likes this.
  14. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    I live with a family member, but unfortunately due to health conditions and her shaking, she would be worse than me.
    I can do this! I have to for her sake.
  15. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    Ahhh, thanks for that. Will go do that.
    I need a piccie too.
    Thanks again.
  16. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Apr 3, 2018
    Yes, please, we would very much like a picture.
  17. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    This might give you guys more of an idea where I'm going wrong if something stands out.
    The Amoxyclav tablets in the beginning were because she had a UTI. The ones she is on again now are because the vet found some bacteria that isn't suppose to be there when she checked her urine last thursday.
    I had added Frankincense, Devils Claw powders to her evening meals for some time now to help with her IBD inflammation and arthritis.

    Just as a side note, Sushey has never had any keytones in her urine. But she does have a small amount of protein. Is that a big thing to watch? How do I stop/prevent that?

    Sorry, there is a lot here:

    April 30th - 5.075kg

    Sunday 6th May:

    6:30am - ate raw chopped roo
    6:34am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    10:30am - clean litter : 3 pee, 1 poo ..... since 3pm clean Saturday

    11am - 1.5 Amoxyclav pills

    Nibbled at (about 4 heaped tbsp) of roo throughout day. Napped rest of it.

    5:55pm - ate raw chopped roo

    6:05pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    9:30pm - clean litter : 1 pee, 1 poo

    10:40pm - measured water in bowl
    10:45pm - 1.5 Amoxyclav & 1 x 5mg Pred pills

    Approx. 5 heaped tbsp raw venison down for over night food with Frankincense, Devils Claw, multi vitamin and digestive enzyme powders.

    Roughly 1.5 tbsp water added to meal.


    Monday 7th May:

    6:14am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    10:30am - 1.5 Amoxyclav pills

    didn't eat a lot throughout day: had visitors turn up mid arvo for the night.

    Gave a tbsp of grain-free cookies to inspire her to eat

    6:03pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    10:10pm - 1.5 Amoxyclav & 1 x 5mg Pred pills

    10:20pm - 73ml water in 24hrs

    10:25pm - clean litter : 3 pee, 2 poo

    Approx. 4 heaped tbsp raw chopped roo down focr over night food with Frankincense, Devils Claw, multi vitamin and digestive enzyme powders.

    Roughly 1.5 tbsp water added to meal.


    Tuesday 8th May:

    6:30am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    10:30am - 1.5 Amoxyclav pills

    didn't eat a lot throughout day

    6:30pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    11:13pm - 1.5 Amoxyclav & 1 x 5mg Pred pills

    11:20pm - 44ml water in 25hrs

    12:45am - clean litter : 1 pee


    Wednesday 9th May:

    7:15am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    11:00am - 1.5 Amoxyclav pills

    didn't eat a lot throughout day - I was out

    9:15pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin - back late from RB hospital

    11:13pm - 1.5 Amoxyclav & 1 x 5mg Pred pills

    12:00am - clean litter : 2-3 pee, 1 poo


    Thursday 10th May:

    8:30am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    11:30am - 1.5 Amoxyclav pills

    didn't eat a lot through day ... in her 'I don't want any raw meat you're offering' phase.

    5pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 1 poo

    6:30pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin - figured safe considering she starts 3 shots tomo

    12:50am - 1.5 Amoxyclav & 1 x 5mg Pred pills

    1:00am - 156ml water in 2 days


    Friday 11th May:

    6:20am - roo for brekky

    6:28am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    11:30am - 1.5 Amoxyclav pills

    1:50pm - roo with freeze dried Feline Natural feast sprinkles

    2:03pm - 1 I.U Caninsulin

    4:20pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 3 poo .... tin food bulk over past couple of days

    10:00pm - bambi with freeze dried Feline Natural feast sprinkles

    10:15pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    12:00am - 1.5 Amoxyclav & 1 x 5mg Pred pills


    Saturday 12th May:

    6:15am - roo for brekky with freeze dried Feline Natural feast sprinkles

    6:25am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    12:10pm - 1.5 Amoxyclav pills

    1:50pm - Fancy Feast turkey

    2:00pm - 1 I.U Caninsulin

    5:19pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 1 poo

    10:20pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    10:30pm - emu with sprinkles

    11:58pm - 1.5 Amoxyclav & 1 x 5mg Pred pills

    12:23am - 113.5ml water in 2 days


    Sunday 13th May:

    6:28am - freeze dried Feline Natural feast sprinkles

    6:35am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    2:03pm - emu

    2:10pm - 1 I.U Caninsulin

    5:30pm - clean litter : 1 pee, 1 poo

    9:58pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    11:58pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pills

    12:23am - 79.5ml water in 24hrs - had sprinkles & few cookies


    Monday 14th May:

    6:23am - roo

    6:36am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    1:48pm - roo & sprinkles

    2:02pm - 1 I.U Caninsulin

    5:00pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 2 poo

    10:23pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    11:55pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pills

    11:59pm - 47.5ml water in 24hrs


    Tuesday 15th May:

    6:12am - rabbit, sprinkles & cookies

    6:27am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    2:10pm - roo

    2:16pm - 1 I.U Caninsulin

    4:30pm - clean litter : 1 pee, 1 poo

    10:31pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    11:10pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pills

    11:35pm - 63ml water in 24hrs


    Wednesday 16th May:

    6:04am - roo & tin

    6:11am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    2:00pm - shopping & hoping to start Lantus in evening

    5:30pm - clean litter : 1 pee, 1 poo

    6:20pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    10:45pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pills

    11:00pm - 86ml water in 24hrs


    Thursday 17th May:

    6:15am - roo & tin

    6:21am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    2:00pm - refused to eat

    6:30pm - clean litter : 1 pee, 1 poo

    7:10pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    11:35pm - 75.5ml water in 24hrs

    11:10pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pills


    Friday 18th May:

    6:35am - roo & tin

    6:47am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    3:00pm - feline natural

    3:16pm - 1 I.U Caninsulin

    4:30pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 3 poo

    10:55pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    11:10pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pills


    Saturday 19th May:

    6:28am - ziwi tin

    6:35am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    1:50pm - Ziwi

    1:56pm - 1 I.U Caninsulin

    5:19pm - clean litter : 1 pee, 2 poo - crystal litter....little harder to tell pees

    10:15pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    10:22pm - feline natural

    11:03pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pills


    Sunday 20th May:

    6:25am - feline natural

    6:33am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    1:55pm - feline natural

    2:10pm - 1 I.U Caninsulin

    5:30pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 2 poo - crystals

    10:16pm - feline natural

    10:30pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    11:08pm - 71ml water in 3 days .... eating tin food, no freeze dried or cookies

    11:15pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pills


    Monday 21st May:

    am - refused to eat anything I put down....Feline Natural run may be over

    1:30pm - Ziwi tin

    1:36pm - 1.5 I.U Caninsulin - increased due to missing morning

    5:15pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 1 poo - crystals

    6:20pm - Ziwi tin

    6:35pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin - accidentally gave it 3hrs too early

    7:03pm - 2 finger pads lightly coated in honey to prevent hypo

    Watched her very closely for next 7 & 1/2 hrs.

    11:40pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pills


    Tuesday 22nd May:

    Skipped injection after yesterdays major stuff up!

    1:52pm - feline natural

    2:10pm - 1 I.U Caninsulin

    7:30pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 4 poo - crystals

    9:36pm - feline natural

    9:49pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    11:15pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pills


    Wednesday 23rd May:

    am - refused to eat anything again this morning! Hope Ziwi arriving today will prevent this tomo!

    1:55pm - Ziwi

    2:08pm - 1.5 I.U Caninsulin

    7:30pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 4 poo - crystals

    9:55pm - feline natural

    10:14pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    11:15pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pills


    Thursday 24th May:

    6:30am - ziwi

    6:37am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    5:30pm - clean litter : 3 pee, 4 poo

    6:22pm - ziwi

    6:33pm - 2 I.U Lantus

    11:40pm - 150ml water in 4 days

    11:58pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pills

    First time in ages, Sush came to sleep on the bed when I turned the lights out.


    Friday 25th May:

    6:30am - ziwi

    6:35am - 2 I.U Lantus

    Sush came back to bed with me after shot and didn't leave after 30mins or so like normal. I woke 3hrs later and she was still there......unusual. She hadn't eaten any more food either.

    5:00pm - clean litter : 3 pee, 3poo

    Hasn't eaten much today

    6:25pm - ziwi

    6:32pm - 2 I.U Lantus

    11:40pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pills


    Saturday 26th May:

    6:36am - ziwi

    6:44am - 2 I.U Lantus

    Sush slept on my bed all day again.

    4:30pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 3poo

    6:20pm - ziwi

    6:27pm - 2 I.U Lantus

    11:40pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pills


    Sunday 27th May:

    Gave Sush only raw roo over night for a break in tin food. She was at my door meowing for brekky at 6am when my alarm went off. Surprised all roo was gone.

    6:24am - ziwi

    6:31am - 2 I.U Lantus

    Sush was quite sociable this morning, wanting attention/carried around. Slept at door wanting sun for couple of hrs before retiring to my bed.....was a cold day.

    5:00pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 4 poo

    Had a few drinks around 5pm. She did have a heaped tablespoon of cookies around 12:30pm.

    6:08pm - ziwi

    6:11pm - 2 I.U Lantus

    Vomited around 12:30am

    1:15am - 1 x 5mg Pred pills


    Monday 28th May:

    Gave Sush only raw roo over night - pretty much all eaten. Refused to eat more for brekky.

    6:17am - 1/2 can Applaws tuna w/ seaweed

    6:26am - 2 I.U Lantus

    Another coldish wet day, so Sush slept on my bed under the quilt.

    Vomited early afternoon while I was out. Left too long between eating.

    4:30pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 4 poo

    Vomited 6:17pm .... last ate around 4:45pm.

    6:35pm - 1/2 can Applaws tuna w/ seaweed

    6:48pm - 2 I.U Lantus

    11:20pm - 170ml water in 4 days

    11:38pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pills

    Didn't eat a lot today.


    Put emu mixed with Ziwi down for the night.....Sush was hungry, but didn't want that until I fed a small amount on my hand.


    Tuesday 29th May:

    Sush didn't eat any more food over night. Didn't touch her water either.

    6:44am - Feline Natural .. was a struggle to get her to eat 2tbs

    6:51am - 2 I.U Lantus

    Sush didn't touch another bite of food between having her shot and 11am. Tried a few different foods - on and off the hand - wasn't interested. She did eat a few cookies!

    Finally found she would eat some Ziwi rabbit/lamb. Nibbled on and off when I took the bowl over to her. Lucky if she has eaten 1/4 of 185g can by 3:30pm.

    On the plus side, she has been sleeping at the door enjoying the sun rather than in my room on the bed. She is very quiet.

    3:40pm - clean litter : 1 pee, 1 poo

    6:32pm - Ziwi rabbit/lamb

    6:50pm - 2 I.U Lantus

    Sush got up and ate on her own just after 8pm for the first time today. She has eaten 3/4 of the 185g can.

    12:29m - 1 x 5mg Pred pill

    Sush is very uncomfortable tonight.......moving regularly from one chair to another and to the floor.

    I have Ziwi rabbit, raw kangaroo and raw venison for her to choose from. She wants something to eat, but none of those.

    Swapped Ziwi for Feline Natural chicken/lamb.

    Her stomach feels more bloated when she eats Ziwi, but she refuses to eat raw meat at insulin times and gets bored with Feline Natural flavours very quickly.


    Wednesday 30th May:

    Sush ate the Feline Natural over night.

    6:29am - sardines in added salt

    6:43am - 2 I.U Lantus

    Drunk a heap of water between having shot and 9am.......possibly due to sardines.

    5:40pm - Feline Natural hoki/beef

    5:58pm - 2 I.U Lantus

    12:45pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pill


    Thursday 31st May:

    Ate pretty much half of a 170g can Feline Natural hoki/beef over night. Seems to be slowly coming out of her 'I don't want it' phase.

    6:17am -

    6:35am - 2 I.U Lantus

    Nibbled at 1/3 of a can (185g) of Ziwi rabbit/lamb through day.

    Slept all day in the door at the door until it got too icy cold.

    4:00pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 4 poo

    6:18pm - Ziwi rabbit/lamb - only ate tiny amount

    6:24pm - 2 I.U Lantus

    12:38pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pill

    Finished off the rest of 1/3 of Ziwi dinner before bed.


    Friday 1st June:

    Ate the half a cup of raw roo I put down for over night meal and was sitting in lounge waiting for brekky.

    6:18am - 1/4 Feline natural venison/lamb

    6:34am - 2 I.U Lantus

    1:30pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 5 poo

    5:55pm - 1/2 can Applaws tuna/seaweed

    6:08pm - 2 I.U Lantus

    11:25pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pill


    Saturday 2nd June:

    Ate 1/2 can Applaws and couple heaped tablespoons raw roo over night.

    6:20am - 3/4 can Ziwi lamb ..... she was famished.

    6:25am - 2 I.U Lantus

    1/4 can Ziwi lamb

    2:30pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 3 poo

    6:19pm - 1/3 can Feline Natural beef/hoki & tablespoon roo

    6:28pm - 2 I.U Lantus

    11:57pm - 70ml water in 5 days

    12:10am - 1 x 5mg Pred pill


    Sunday 3rd June:

    Put down 3/4 cup roo over night. Was only a tablespoon left this morning.

    6:14am - Applaws tuna/prawn

    6:21am - 2 I.U Lantus

    Very whingie this morning. In and out of tray room couple of times, but only did one softish, but still formed poop. Could see definite pieces of kangaroo meat......not digesting her food properly.

    5:30pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 3 poo

    6:20pm - Feline Natural venison

    6:28pm - 2 I.U Lantus

    11:30pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pill


    Monday 4th June:

    Didn't eat any of her roo meat over night.

    6:03am - Ziwi rabbit/lamb

    6:10am - 2 I.U Lantus

    Lot of groaning coming from her basket around 8:50am.

    4:30pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 2 poo

    6:22pm - roo & 1/4 can Ziwi rabbit

    6:34pm - 2 I.U Lantus

    7:05pm - 1 1/2 x 5mg Pred pill


    Tuesday 5th June:

    Didn't eat any of Ziwi venison mixed with roo. Was crying at 4am for food.

    Put a few tablespoons Ziwi venison alone down and gobbled it.

    6:28am - Fancy Feast Inspirations

    6:40am - 2 I.U Lantus

    Put another Inspirations sachet in her bowl. All gone by 10:30am.

    6:20pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 3 firm poo, 1 sloppy

    Sloppy poo looked more the colour of Inspirations.

    6:15pm - Little fancy feast turkey, little Applaws tuna/seaweed

    6:24pm - 2 I.U Lantus

    Very restless this evening. She wants food, but none of the tins I have opened. Trying to stay away from Feline Natural and Ziwi to see if the heavy organ tins are causing the problem. But miss fussy, isn't making anything easy!

    6:40pm - 35ml water in 3 days

    7:10pm - 1 1/2 x 5mg Pred pill

    Ended up eating all of 85g fancy feast turkey.

    Gave Sush 2.5ml Slippery Elm syrup to try help settle bowels and stomach before bed.

    Ordered some new grain free tins that have only chicken liver or no organ meat in them.......hopefully here by friday.


    Wednesday 6th June:

    Ate 85g fancy feast whitebait/tuna over night.

    6:14am - 70g Fancy feast Inspirations

    6:28am - 2 I.U Lantus

    Didn't want all brekky, but ate half. Noticed she wobbled when she got up from laying position. Also almost fell over when she shook head while standing. Very weak.

    Checked litter at 6:30am and was no poo.....just 1 pee (normal). Lately there's been at least 2 poos from over night.

    Hope Slippery doesn't bung her and everything is actually working as hoped.

    Got home around 12pm to find vomit on my bedroom floor and Sush hiding under my bed......only goes under there when it's hot.

    Once the visitor left, I opened a can of food and Sush came out......she was walking on her hocks. She only ate a tiny amount.

    Believe she has a slight bladder control issue.....picked her up last night for her Pred and ended up with wetness on my arm and a spot on the chair.....she had just come from urinating. Also noticed few liquid drops on laundry floor.

    Still no bowel movements.

    6:20pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 0 poo

    6:00pm - 1/2 tin fancy feast cod/shrimp

    6:10pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    She couldn't get enough food - ate a heap of the original can I opened earlier.

    Then was quite satisfied to sit out in the lounge cleaning herself before hoping in basket......didn't return under the bed. Also walking more on her toes, but wobbled on her back legs when climbing into her basket. Continued to preen herself.

    Got/fell out of her basket at 7:45am and was trying to crouch-walk.....she couldn't stand. Wanted food, but too distressed and just lay on the floor. Couple of minutes and she is able to stand/walk a bit better.

    Gone through a lot of water.

    Finally pooped at 8:30pm.

    10:40pm - 90.5ml water in 24hrs

    11:pm - 1 1/2 x 5mg Pred pill

    Seems a little more settled since 9:30pm........more content to sleep on a modified bed. Restless a couple of times.

    Around 11:40pm I found Sush behaving weird - head over hanging my chair and making repetitive head movements. Her front toes were slightly curled. Apart from her head and tail, she wasn't moving her though she was slightly paralysed.

    Mum suspects a stroke.

    Monitored her all night and she didn't stop that continuous head movement until the 6am insulin alarm went off.

    When she got up, she was extremely wobbly.


    Thursday 7th June:

    6:am -

    6:am -

    11am - 1 Amoxyclav

    Ate half 85g tin of fancy feast when returned from vet trip.

    12:15pm - 1/2 fancy feast

    12:31pm - 1 I.U Caninsulin

    6:00pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 2 poo,

    Sush is catching up on sleep from last night and seems brighter.

    9:57pm - 1/2 fancy feast.

    10:08pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    Doesn't seem so unstable on her feet tonight. Even able to use steps to get up on my bed again. Definitely think she responds to Caninsulin better.

    11:46pm - 62ml water in 24hrs

    11:50pm - 1 1/4 x 5mg Pred pill & 1 Amoxyclav


    Friday 8th June:

    Ate 3/4 can fancy feast over night.

    6:25am - 1/2 can fancy feast

    6:33am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    1 Amoxyclav

    Sush is enjoying the sun at the door and walking fine.

    1:03pm - Osopure tin 85g

    2:16pm - 1 I.U Caninsulin

    5:30pm - clean litter : 1 pee, 3 poo

    Had a short nap on my bed, but slept most of the day out in the lounge.

    10:18pm - 1/2 Applaws

    10:27pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    11:11pm - 1 1/4 x 5mg Pred pill


    Saturday 9th June:

    Ate 1/2 can Applaws and a tin of Osopure over night

    5:48am - Osopure tin - acting starved

    6:10am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    1 Amoxyclav

    Nibbled fancy feast Inspirations through day.

    1:53pm - Nibble on Inspirations

    1:57pm - 1 I.U Caninsulin

    5:10pm - clean litter : pee, 3 poo

    10:00pm - 1/4 can fancy feast

    10:09pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin


    12:14am - 52ml water in 2 days

    12:20am - 1 x 5mg Pred pill & 1 Amoxyclav

    Ate 1/2 can fancy feast


    Sunday 10th June:

    Ate 1/2 can fancy feast

    6:28am - 85g Holistic Selectic grain free

    6:33am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    1 Amoxyclav

    Wasting can after can ..... just being damn fussy. One minute she eats one, then she won't. Still refuses to eat raw meat, even without vitamins. Won't eat anything with arthritis herbs in it.

    Looks at food, but once again, when diabetes becomes more stable she refuses any food I offer. Finally ate a little Ziwi at 3pm for late shot.

    2:58pm - couple tbsp Ziwi

    3:10pm - 1 I.U Caninsulin

    4:38pm - clean litter : 1 pee, 3 poo

    - (2 darker ones -Osopure- were half to 1/3 the size they have been and other poop 3/4 the size)

    Ate a few small pieces of brisket and nibbled at Ziwi.

    10:13pm - Tbsp Ziwi

    10:26pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    12:40pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pill & 1 Amoxyclav


    Monday 11th June:

    Finished off the rest of Ziwi can 185g (apart from tbsp) and couple tbsps Feline Natural over night.

    6:25am - Taste of the Wild

    6:38am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    1 Amoxyclav

    Ate about half the (156g) Taste of the Wild can since brekky.

    1:55pm - 1/2 fancy feast classic cod/shrimp

    2:08pm - 1 I.U Caninsulin

    Continued to nibble on other half can of fancy feast when I offered it in her basket.

    5:30pm - clean litter : 2 pee, 4 poo

    • 3 small, 1 little smaller than original large poops

    5:40pm - vomited liquid food

    5:50pm - ate 1/4 can Taste of the Wild

    8:19pm - vomited liquid food again

    8:24pm - put 1/2 can fancy feast whitebait/tuna down...Sush ate 3/4 of it.

    4.470kg 85g loss in 48hrs

    10:10pm - 2ml Slippery Elm syrup

    10:40pm - no added salt sardines (heaped tbsp)

    10:45pm - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    10:50pm - 88.5ml water in 2 days

    11:38pm - vomited liquid food again.

    11:pm - 1 x 5mg Pred pill & 1 Amoxyclav

    Put 1/2 can whitebait/tuna mixed with little raw venison down for over night.


    Tuesday 12th June:

    Surprised she ate pretty much all fancy feast with venison in it over night.

    6:27am - 1/2 can Feline Natural (170g)

    6:40am - 2 I.U Caninsulin

    1 Amoxyclav

    By 9:30am, she has eaten the 2nd half of Feline Natural can. She can't get enough food this morning.
  18. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2015
    Hi and welcome to you and Sushey,
    I live in Sydney Australia and will help in any way I can.
    Have you tried the Weruva cats in the kitchen canned food. It is low in carbs and is suitable for diabetic cats. I know you have to be careful what you feed a cat with IBD.
    Here is a link to suitable Australian canned food for cats

    Do you live in Brisbane? There is a very good vet practice there and they know a lot about feline diabetes as well as other issues. Here is their link. Two vets that I have heard are excellent with FD are Marcus Gunew and Rhett Marshall. I haven't met either but have spoken to Rhett on the phone

    If I were you I would think about switching back to Lantus insulin as it is one of the best insulins for cats as it is a gently insulin and longer lasting, not as harsh as caninsulin. It is best to start off with a small dose and work your way up the scale with the dose.

    Well done in trying to do home testing. That is definitely the way to go to keep Sushey safe and to work out the correct dose.
    Keep asking lots of questions. There are many experienced people here on the forum who have lived with feline diabetes 24/7 and understand what you are going through.
  19. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2015
    It would be very helpful if you could start a spreadsheet and add any BSLs you might have.
    Here is the link to set it up .. if you have trouble setting it up, yell and someone will help you.....I had to get help with mine.
    No one will be able to help with any insulin dosing issues unless they can see the SS as it would be unsafe...but we are very willing to help if you have one up and running to date:)

    Some of the reasons there might be protein in the urine are infection, inflammation, eating a raw high protein diet, kidney disease, bleeding, and excess protein in the blood for various reasons. Cats can normally show a small amount of protein in the urine. There are ways to treat it. But I would mention it to your vet and get him to investigate it.

    Just a couple of observations from your above post.
    That is good you are using slippery elm. Do you use it on a regular basis? Did you know that all other medications need to be kept at least 2 hours away from SEB because it can stop the absorption of probably know this but thought I would mention it. I used SEB twice a day with Sheba and it never caused constipation in her.

    Is the raw diet you feeding one that is commercially made or one you are making up yourself?

    On 6 June that episode of wobbly head and couldn't stand etc sounds very like a hypo episode to me. If you find her like that again rub some honey on her gums.
    The reason her numbers were ok at the vet the next morning could well have been because she bounced high from the very low numbers the night before.
    Here is a link to hypo episode and how to treat.

    Are you testing Sushey BSL at all or just going to the vet at the moment? Just looking at what you have written, she doesn't seem to be drinking much at all or weeing more than twice a day,which would indicate to me that her BSL are pretty good. I would be getting her BSL tested to check how she is going.
    I think the most important thing you can do for Sushey at the moment is home testing the BSL to keep her safe. I read where you have a needle phobia and well done trying to overcome it!:)

    Has she ever had any anti nausea meds for the IBD such as Zofran or cerenia?
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  20. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018

    Hi and thank you.
    I've never heard of that food, but I'll certainly look into it. I'm willing to try anything to get her back on track. I hated taking her off raw meat, but ya gotta do, what ya gotta do.
    I originally tried bought raw meat meals for her, but her bowel movements became large. My semi-retired vet believed it was the organ meat. I wasn't keen on the massive bone pieces in them either.
    Eventually I found a butcher in Brisbane who sells game meats......roo, venison, rabbit and emu. I live 2hrs from Brisbane - out in the sticks, but it was worth travelling down there every 6 weeks to stock up on her meat. I wish I could still get her to eat it......even if it was between injections.
    I was adding Natural Animal Solution DigestaVite Plus and Calcium powders so she was getting her nutrients. I had my vet check them out to make sure they were complete enough.
    On raw meat her poops were soooo teeny and she only went 2-3 times a week.
    I'd like to try and get her back onto it once she picks up and has a bit of weight to play with. It took a lot to get her onto raw meat in the first place.

    I'm a little scared to switch to Lantus again at this stage cause it takes too long to kick in and she really doesn't have a lot to play with weight wise.
    She did start looking brighter when I introduced the 3rd injection each day of Caninsulin. More herself. I just need her to start feeling better with some weight gain and make sure she is stable glucose wise.
    Later on, I think I will try Lantus again, so I'm not asking the vets at this stage if the only other client using Lantus wants to buy the unused 4 pens I have.

    My Performa strips didn't come today, so my vets gave me some to try testing Sush until they come......hopefully tomorrow.
    I tested the lance on myself first....just so I know what she is going through. I had read it hurts less if it's done on the side of the finger. I tried it 5 times on myself and at different levels on the lance, but found it hardly produced blood on the side of the finger.
    I then tried it on my finger pad and bingo. I managed to deal with the red stuff beading up.

    So I tried the lance on Sush's poor little paw pad and it didn't do anything. I tried it a second time on the biggest puncher - level 5 to get through. Still bugger all blood.
    I then used one of her Caninsulin needles (for something sterile) to try her ear vein while a family member held her.
    Far out, it was a NIGHTMARE the first tries!
    I finally manage to pierce her vein and get a drop, I grab the darn meter and just as I hold the meter and strip to the blood and it sucks it up, the thing turns off..........GRRRRRR. I try taking the strip out and back in, but cause there's already blood on it, it won't read. Frustrating.
    I get another family member to stand by ready to insert the strip just as I get another blood drop, but I wasn't able to pierce her vein again - think I was too worked up by that stage. And Sush was getting very fed up and grumbling.
    Plus, it was getting beyond her insulin time so I let it go as a fail.
    The three of us will try again tonight. I don't know how anyone manages that alone!

    There was a small amount of bacteria in her urine, which is why she is on the antibiotics, so I'd say that's the reason for the small bit of protein vet found also.

    I only use the SEB when Sush starts having sloppy poops or is nauseous. I've found it to be one of the best things to have on hand to soothe everything when she has those flare ups.
    The devil's Claw powder also helps soothe her stomach. She rarely vomits when she eats her dinner with that in it.
    My mum is big into herbs and does a lot of research into any herbs and the amount before Sush is given make sure they are safe.
    Other than SEB and Devil's Claw, she hasn't had any anti-nausea medication.

    The poor bug, if I'd realised it was a hypo I would have given her some honey. But I thought they would start shaking. I guess the three of us now know what Sushey hypo looks like and can get onto it asap if it ever happens again. I'm so grateful she came through it and didn't go the other way.

    I will make up a spreadsheet when I get her first reading.....fingers crossed for tonight! I'm certainly feeling more confident now that I have managed to draw some of the nasty stuff from her wee ear......even if the meter didn't get to read it. I know I can do it - all about timing now.

    Feeling much more positive than I was last night. So glad I finally made the move to post!

    And some more good news.......spoke to one of the other vets where I take Sush who gave me the strips about B12 shots and she agreed that they could be good for her due to the fact her poops are large.
    She is going to speak to the vet I see regularly about dosage (she isn't back on until thursday) and I'll make a trip through and get her started on that!
  21. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    Hey Bron, I have a spreadsheet question.
    When I had a look at the demo's, they all have the huge US glucose figures. How do I lay it out using our smaller figures rather than ones in the 100's?

    Not to worry......I managed to figure out how to get one started and saw that it has our smaller figures. All good.
    Now I just need kitty to play ball later tonight before her next shot and I can start filling it in!
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
    Reason for edit: Problem solved
  22. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2015
    The SS should have two SS.....a US SS and a world SS. Use the world SS and it should convert the numbers over to the US SS and the both should show up in your signature at the bottom of your posts. Does that make sense?

    Personaally I think the ear is much easier to get blood from. I'll put a link with hints below.
    In the beginning I used a sock and put some rice in it and heated it up for about 10/20 seconds ......make sure it is not too hot. Hold this on the ear for a minute to encourage the blood. Get a cotton ball or folded tissue and hold it behind the ear when you use the lancet. Try the lancet on 2 first to see if that is can always go higher if it doesn't prick the ear.
    You do not want to get the want to get between the edge of the ear and the vein. Get a torch and put it behind the ear and you will see the vein.
    It is hard to do everything on your own at first so if you can get someone to hold the meter that will help.
    Are you giving Sushey a treat every time you test, even when you are not successful? And try doing it in the same place. Sushey will soon get to know that that is the place and will come willingly for the treat. Look out for the sweet spot in the link page
    Here is the link
  23. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2015
    Weruva canned cat food can only be bought at Petbarn stores.

    I feed my cat a raw diet and think it is by far the best food for cats. Do you give taurine as a supplement? Yes raw food poops are much smaller and much less smelly.

    Don't discount Lantus as long term it has very good results. Sheba lost a lot of weight when she was first diagnosed. Once her BSLs came under control she eventually started to put on weight.That being said cats on catinsulin can do quite well but it is a shorter acting insulin so you are not going to get the same coverage as with Lantus and will get higher BSL as the insulin wears off earlier than Lantus. I'm sure that is why your vet changed Sushey to three times a day. I have never used caninsulin as it is not used that much now that Lantus is available but I am sure it is a twice a day insulin. I am going to send you a link about catinsulin and tag @Elizabeth and Bertie who wrote the article to ask her advice.
  24. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    Awesome, thanks for that.
    Ohhh, I thought I was suppose to actually prick the vein. I didn't realise I would get enough blood just going nearby. That makes it easier using the lance (I feel more confident with that than the needle/syring).
    Geez, I have a lot of apologising to do to Sush!
    Sush has never been a treat cat. Although, she is fond of 'cookies' and I have some grain free ones that I was sent when I bought her Feline Natural and Ziwi tins. I have tended to stay away from giving her them recently cause of any carbs, but I'll treat her with just a few when I do her testing.

    I had a bit of a play with the SS cause Sushey has the three lots per day. So I adjusted it to make three 8hr sections.
    Hopefully it will make sense.

    I think the raw is best too. I really want her back on it.
    The DigestaVite Plus has Taurine in it.
    I like the idea of the Lantus cause if I need to go out, the 2pm shot can be tricky working things around it.....especially cause it takes so long just in travelling out here.
  25. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Mar 19, 2016
    Do you know what gauge size the lancets are? In the beginning (and maybe even all the time with the paw), you'll want to use the larger-diameter lancets, which have smaller gauge size. Start with 26 or 28, and then later you can move to 30 or 31. If you start with the skinny lancets that make tiny holes, it can be really hard to get blood out. Eventually, at least with ears, the pokes stimulate new capillary growth, and the skinny ones work fine, but start with the big ones and it might be easier.

    If she did in fact go hypo the other night, sometimes they get more sensitive to insulin for a while afterwards. HERE is a link that has hypo symptoms and what to do when you see symptoms or low numbers. While you're still getting the testing up and running, I'd personally take a "better safe than sorry" approach and give her some carbs any time I thought she might be acting a bit "odd". Better too high than too low, anytime!

    Looks like from her food diary, she's been on low-carb the whole time since her diagnosis, just switching up types and proteins? That's good, it takes out another variable to consider in figuring out her insulin needs.

    Sushi is adorable! You're doing a great job caring for her-- she's a lucky kitty!
  26. KJC80

    KJC80 Member

    May 18, 2018
    If you have problems getting a blood drop to form on her ear after pricking her, try massaging the ear from base to tip. My cat, Toby, sometimes bleeds very easily for his tests and other times I have to work at it. He willingly comes for his tests and shots, because he knows he gets a treat afterwards. I thought getting him to the testing spot would be the problem, but those little freeze-dried, carb-free raw meat treats have made it easy. He's obsessed with them. I have to put a few on top of his wet food to get him to eat.
  27. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    Thank you. As I assume everyone's fur baby/s are to them, she is my child.
    She has gotten me through a very tough time over the past 4 years - we're needed each other equally!

    I just checked the box and the FastClix lancets are a 30G.

    But I finally had success getting a drop of blood from her ear. I buggered up another strip, but we got there.
    Vet said to concentrate on monitoring what her level is just before I give her another shot at this stage. When my box of strips come (fingers crossed tomorrow), I'll have heaps to play with and check more. I just feel for Sushey having me as her 'dr'.

    Seems her level is spiking before her evening shot.....will check her before the morning shot.
    She had jumped up to 17.4.
    Hopefully I have gotten the SS link and details right.
    Nan & Amber likes this.
  28. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    It certainly feels good to finally get a reading. I now see that you truly can't manage this condition fully unless you're monitoring at home cause her levels were always good at the vets.

    I bought some freeze dried meat in Feline Natural brand that can be sprinkled on food to inspire kitty's to eat. It worked at first with Sush, but then she turned her nose up at it.
    I'm going to see if I can get it in another flavour - she gets bored easily.
    KJC80, Nan & Amber and Idjit's mom like this.
  29. donnalea

    donnalea Member

    Jun 18, 2016
    I give Callie a nice brushing instead of a treat since she has IBD and can only eat lamb. I need to find lamb treats. Most cats will come for testing if you give them some extra attention. Ear or chin rubs will win over many cats. Callie seems to know when her BG is dropping. She will come to me, meow, and run to our testing table. Cats are so smart.
    Elizabeth and Bertie likes this.
  30. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    Wow, Callie is smart! Must make things a little easier when they can somewhat tell you what's going on. Pretty cool.

    I don't know if it was a deliberately thing with Sushey, cause she goes through phases of napping on my recliner, but she had gotten up on my chair and was laying in a position she never sleeps in when I found her in that episode.
    Perhaps she went to my chair for comfort.
    Just thankful I have a second chance if that ever happens again - now I know what to look for.
  31. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    Thank you so much everyone for all your help.
    My strips finally arrived today. I went through sooooo many of the ones the vet gave me, just to get 2 readings. Was a little frustrating, but so glad I got there.

    Poor Sush looks like she had a little bruising from my first two days. Is that normal until you become more of a pro at it?
    Luckily I got it first go today before her 2pm shot and her level was still up a little at 12.8.
    I have put her 2pm insulin up from 1U to 1.5U cause 8hrs later (on the 12th when I tested) it had spiked up to 17.1.
    I'll check her again before her 10pm injection.
  32. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2015
    Are you testing about 3 hours after insulin to see how low the insulin is taking Sushey? If you only test at preshot you won’t know how effective the insulin is. And the caninsulin will not last as long as the longer acting insulins and will come back up when the insulin wears off.

    After you get the blood try holding the spot for 30 seconds gently and it will hopefully not bruise. His ears will settle down.
  33. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    Yeah I gave it a try 3.5-4hrs after a shot yesterday and she got down to 3.1.

    I'm pretty positive it's not diabetes causing her weight loss now cause she is still lossing a heap, yet eating quite well.
    Got her booked in for monday (unfortunately the blood wouldn't be collected until lunch time monday no matter what) to check her digestive enzyme levels.
    But feline digestive enzymes are one of the things highly recommended for IBD cats so I have them. They don't seem to do anything.
  34. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2015
    3.1 is as low as you want to go, otherwise you are dropping too low.
    If you get a 3.1 you need to test again 1/2 hour later to check that the BSL has not gone any lower.
    By the time she shows signs and symptoms of a hypo she could be much lower than 3.1
    Are you still giving the Caninsulin three times a day?
    I really think you should go back to twice a day with it.
    Is she a good eats? Can you give her extra food?
    Elizabeth and Bertie likes this.
  35. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    When I saw that, I watched her closely. She acted famished at that time.....I kind of wondered her that was her way of trying to deal with it being that low.
    Today when I checked it 4hrs after her 1.5U at 2pm shot, it was down to 4.6 which I felt was a better level. But I'm expecting it to be up near the 12 again tonight before her 10pm shot.

    Ahh, thanks. Will note that for next time. I'll actually check her again 4hrs after another 2U shot and see if it drops down to the low 3 again.
    If she only has 2 shots a day, she spikes right up to the 17 or more by the time her next shot comes around.
    Perhaps 3 times a day needs to be dropped to 1.5U each if she drops too close to the 3.1 after the 2U.

    Sometimes she goes through patches where she doesn't want any of the foods I put down, but she wants something. I have to open so many cans to find the 'right' one.

    Today I boiled up chicken breast and a bit of sweet potato to test if it's all the IBD causing the weight lose due to her eating tin food. She has eaten quite a bit of it - roughly 6-7 heaped tablespoons in the past 6hrs.
    Will be interesting to check the litter tray tomorrow......hopefully far smaller and less poop to greet me.
    Hoping she also puts on even just a teeny bit of weight......although I don't expect the scales to show much in a gain in 24hrs.
  36. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2015
    I'm going to tag @Elizabeth and Bertie to see if she can advise you about the caninsulin dose and timing.
    I have not used caninsulin and would not like to advise you on dosing amounts.
    I hope the chicken and sweet potato is a success.
  37. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    Thanks Bron!
    I'll also take my readings in to show my vet tomorrow and see what she says.
    I'm almost out of the Caninsulin, so she may even say to go back to Lantus.
    That stuff just kind of freaks me out now cause Sush started walking on her hocks 2 weeks into using it and she has already lost too much weight - she can't really afford to wait a week or whatever it is for Lantus to kick in and become stable on.

    I thought IBD was bad, but this diabetes business takes the cake. It's put my stress levels in hyper mode.
    I have far more compassion for anyone who developes diabetes, that's for sure!
  38. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2015
    I've never heard of Lantus causing a cat to walk on its hocks. That is caused by neuropathy which is caused by high numbers and will go away when numbers go back into the normal range.
    Methyl B12 tablets can also be given for the neuropathy.....not to be confused with B12 cyanocobalamin.

    I would encourage you to go back to Lantus if you are at the end of the caninsulin and you are looking for a longer acting insulin which will give you better numbers for longer in the cycle.
    Lantus is a much gentler insulin than caninsulin as well and normally doesn't drop as fast but goes down in a gentle curve.
    Test before each dose and again at +3 and again at about +5 or 6 to see how low the insulin is taking Sush.
    The Lantus should start taking some effect with the first dose. It will take 3 days for the depot to fill up and for you to get the full effect of the dose. Always hold the dose for 3 days(6 doses) unless you drop below 3
    Lantus needs a DIFFERENT syringe to caninsulin insulin.

    Here is some info about Lantus from one of the yellow stickies. Read this and maybe show it to the vet

    Here is a yellow sticky about the depot which Lantus has.

    When/if you swap over to Lantus I would encourage you to start posting on the Lantus page as most people who give Lantus post on that page and you will have access to lots of help and advise from many people who are using the same insulin as you and who probably have encountered many of the same problems.
    Here is the link to the Lantus page

    Please let us know what you decide to do. Good luck :)
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
    Reason for edit: Tagged shellz
  39. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    Thanks Bron.
    That hock walking only lasted until she had her possible hypo later that evening. Very weird combo.
    Neither has happened again since.

    We saw the vet today and Sush was put on weekly Vit B12 injections for 6 weeks, then dropped back to fortnightly for 6 weeks and then the last one a month later. We'll access how she is going at that stage.
    Also been put on Creon capsules for digestive enzymes.
    The test was going to cost $325, has to be sent to US lab and is a 17 day turn around - too long for Sush to wait. Vet spoke about her condition to someone who specialises in that and they recommended going straight on the enzymes.
    Don't have much to lose at this point.

    Can the B12 injection make them extremely quiet at first?
    Sush has just wanted to sleep. She has eaten a tin of food, but not as hungry as she has been. She won't touch the cooked up chicken and sweet potato (only put a little in due to carbs) today I did to try get her off tin as much as possible. She loved it saturday.

    Thanks so much for the links.
  40. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2015
    I don't really know much about Vit B12 injections ( cyanocobalamin), so can't comment if they make them sleepy.
    I have read where some people give them for certain conditions.... but I can't remember what they are...sorry.
    As far as I am aware, they are not the same as the Methyl B12 tablets (methylcobalamin) that are for the peripheral neuropathy, so if you were getting the B12 injections for the neuropathy I think it may be the wrong B12.
    What was the vet giving Sush the B 12 injections for? Maybe it was for the IBD.
    If you are concerned about the sleepiness you could start a new thread and ask the question. There should be people around who would have used it. The US is just waking up now.

    Did you make any decisions about the Lantus insulin?
    I hope the Creon capsules do some good.
  41. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    She is on the B12 injections for her IBD.
    I've heard many IBD cat parents in the US highly recommend them.
    They are horrid huge needles. I felt awful stabbing her with that massive thick's like a needle for a horse.
    She was ok with the needle.....was the fluid that she meowed a little at.

    She doesn't seem to want to eat anything. I managed to get a tiny bit in her for tonight's shot, but it was a struggle. She looks in her bowl when I show her, but then turns away at everything I have offered.
    Thinking she might be feeling nauseous.
    Will wait awhile (recently given her Pred) and try her on some SEB to help settle her stomach.

    No, I haven't decided yet. I think I've got about a week left in the Caninsulin vial. So will stew on it this week and monitor how Sushey does.

    Thanks, I hope something good starts happening soon.
  42. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Dec 28, 2009
    Two of my cats get that I just just use insulin syringes. I do not notice any sleepiness or other side effects.
  43. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2015
    That's good she is having the B12 injections for the IBD. I hope it makes a difference to her.
    I am glad Larry posted and said he hasn't had any sleepiness with the injections.
    One of my previous cats had IBD and he was very on and off his food so I know how hard it is to get them to eat sometimes.
    How are things today?
  44. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    Thanks guys.

    I really think it might have been the Creon. It certainly worked though!
    Still 3 poops today, but they are a fraction of the size.
    I had to be out most of the day which stuffed up her 2pm shot (which is the great thing with Lantus!), but she ate while I was out. And her appetite has been good since I got home.
    I have decided (after a little research on Creon) to cut Sush back to 1/4 of a capsule twice a day and see if it still works. Hopefully that won't be so harsh on her poor stomach. Perhaps she may just need to build up slowly.

    IBD truly is a horrid disease.
    One thing - Sushey and I were always close, but this brought us even closer.
    Bron and Sheba likes this.
  45. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi @Shellz ,

    I don't quite understand your spreadsheet. (Sorry if I'm being a bit thick...)
    Is it the case that you're shooting Caninsulin every 8 hours?
    And if so, are you testing before every shot to make sure the blood glucose is high enough to shoot?
    Just wondering if the data on the spreadsheet is all the data that you have, or whether some of the data hasn't made it onto the spreadsheet?

    Bron and Sheba likes this.
  46. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    I'm working on it in AU version......lower glucose numbers and it doesn't translate too well (unless I do it manually on the US version as well) cause I have altered the SS for every 8hr shots.
    I don't check every single time, but her level has always been more than high enough before each shot.

    Her diabetes isn't an issues any more......not sure if it actually was now.
    I believe we are at the end cause she is barely eating. She keeps looking for food and going over to it, but walks away.
    She has nibbled at some, but she isn't eating anywhere near enough, so still losing weight.
    The enzymes (1/4 twice a day) are still working at making her BM's small and far less, but pointless if she won't eat enough.
  47. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2015
    It sounds to me like Sushey is nauseated. Looking for food then going over to it and then walking away from it is classic for nausea.
    Have you ever given cerenia or Zofran for nausea?
    Many people here on the forum with IBD cats give these two medications.
    You get the cerenia from the vet and the Zofran you need to get a script from the vet and then get the Zofran from the chemist. The usual dose of the Zofran is 1/4 tablet. Both can be given together and are very effective.
    I have used both and they work.
    Elizabeth and Bertie likes this.
  48. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    I hoped that SEB would help if she was feeling nauseous, but perhaps it doesn't.
    I've never had those medications, so I'll call the vet in the morning and see if I can race through to pick some up.
    Are they best given both or will just the one work fine?
    Thanks for that.
    She only ate about 60g of food today which is no where near enough.
  49. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2015
    Cerenia and Zofran can be given on their own or together, if the cerenia is not working.
    I used to try the cerenia first which can be given IMI by the vet and lasts a couple of days or there are tablets.....the vet should be able to give you the correct dosage on that. People here on the forum usually give 4mg cerenia ( sometimes 8mg) per 24 hours 1 hour pre food or 2 hours after food.
    The vet may have not heard of Zofran....I know my vet hadn't when I first asked for it here in Australia, as it is a human medication, but it works well for cats.
    Zofran is also known as Ondansetron and comes in 4 mg wafers and you buy it at the chemist. It cost me about $20
    a script for the Zofran. The usual dose of Zofran is 1/2 wafer (2 mg) put on the tongue. It just desolves......make sure you don't have wet hands when handling it. Give Zofran 1/2 hour before food.....I think Zofran can be given up to 3 times a day. I'm going to tag @tiffmaxee as she has a lot of experience with IBD cats and might be able to help you further.
    Some people find the cerenia works best and some people find the Zofran works better.
  50. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    I went to the vets today and was given Maxalon which the vet said won't interfere with anything else she is taking. She can have 1/4 tab up to 3 times a day.
    I'm not sure that's the problem. I gave her 1/4 when I got home at 1:45pm and another 1/4 tonight.
    I grabbed some Hills a/d and i/d cans while there and she gobbled 1/2 can of the a/d at 2pm.
    But she is meowing on and off, following me today (which she doesn't normally do), came for a nap and snugles on my bed tonight (which she hasn't done in weeks) and doesn't want food again tonight.
    I think she is telling me she has had enough. I don't want her to suffer any more. She has been through so much for over 4 years. I believe the diabetes was the last straw.
    At this point, I plan on saying goodbye to her tomorrow.

    Thanks for all your help - will let you know what happens.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
    Reason for edit: Spelling mistake
  51. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

    Nov 15, 2013
    I’m so sorry to read about this. I’m nit familiar with Maxalon. Ondansetron worked really well for Max. Like Ron said cerenia also works and often both are given. Cerenia usually lasts 24 hours whereas ondansetron (zofran) can be given every 8 hours. I’d try them before throwing in the towel but you know your baby best. Max was pretty sick so many times but bounced back with tge right medications. When heart disease and kidney disease were diagnosed nothing worked and I had to let him go. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

    IMPORTANT! I just looked up Maxalon. The other name is Reglan. It does not work for nausea in cats like it does for dogs. I hope you read this before making the decision.

    @Bron and Sheba @sheltz
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
  52. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    Thanks for that.
    I woke to give Sush her insulin 20 minutes ago to find her vomiting liquid food. She barely ate over night.
    I put 1/2 can of Hills a/d down.
    Shortly after vomiting and with me sitting in the lounge she ate close to 1/4.
    But she still keeps screaming at me which isn't normal. Plus she slept on and off on my bed through the night.
    With all the food she ate yesterday, she didn't poop over night - weird. Noticed she drunk a bit last night, but pee last nigt and this morning are only very teeny.
    I really think she is shutting down and she is spending as much time as she can with me by coming up on my bed like she is. It's not an easy task for her, even with the stairs I built her a month or so ago.
    Something else I have noticed is she is constantly purring to herself. She only ever purred befored when you pat her.
  53. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2015
    I am so sorry you don’t think Sushey is improving. I agree with what @tiffmaxee said about the cerenia and zofran. They can help cats bounce back from not eating by getting rid of the nausea which stops them eating.
    Did the vet think she was dehydrated yesterday?
    You know your girl best and you must do what you think is best for her.
  54. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    Thank you.
    My vet is on today (normally it's one of the others), so she will go over her again to make sure there's nothing more we can do.
    But her out put has slowed big time on urine and ceased on bowels.
    In the past when she has been feeling nasty with the IBD, the SEB has always worked to settle everything and get her back on track with eating.
    But I will definitely see what the vet says when she goes over Sush.
  55. Shellz

    Shellz Member

    Jan 4, 2018
    Each time I go outside in the past 12hrs, Sush has wanted to follow. She doesn't want me out of her sight.
    Never been like that before.
  56. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2015
    I know how hard it is at this stage. I have had an IBD kitty and I understand what you are going through.
    Might be worth a try to see if the cerenia and or Zofran works. She might need something stronger than SEB to get her over this episode. Also ask if she is dehydrated. That would make her feel lethargic and could explain the low pee output.
    You know Sushey best and you have to do what you think is best for her.
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