? Baby having a bad trip- bupe dosage?

Found out this am that Baby has pancreatitis. The dr gave me oral bupe .25 ml. - she’s just walking around meowing nonstop. She also gave the appetite stimulate mitazapine... she is eatting now but driving me nuts! I called the vet & she said only 1/2 tonight... did she give too much? Any answers for what to do? I thought she’d go to sleep but nooooo!

 

I haven't had this experience, but a nickname for mirtazapine is "meowzapine" because it has that effect on some cats. So that might be part of what is going on.

There is also a small chance that the bupe and the mirtz are too much together (they're in similar "families" of drugs). I'm not good with figuring out proper dosages so I'll leave any detailed musings about the 2.5ml dose to others who are. If she's got pancreatitis, poor girl, she needs those pain meds, but you may have to back off on them until the mirtz wears off.

 

I’ve heard the Mirtzapan will cause some of them to walk around meowing. Hopefully someone in The know will check in and give you more helpful info!

ETA Nan to the rescue!

 

When I gave bupe to Bella’s omg he was the most talkative and friendly cat, I call it a cat high lol, I called vet and it’s been known to,do,that

 

Yes - love you answer peeps! Ok well that must be it although the vet said it’s probably the bupe! The mirtazapine is every 3 days??? She won’t stop... when will this wear off?!? Thank you guys... as long as she’s ok - that’s what matters most!! She just wants outside but I feel I need to watch her.

 

She’s had meowzapine & the opioid so she’s flying high! Meowwwwww .... meeeeout!

 

Check the dose of bupre. Are you sure it's suppose to be 2.5ml. I know there are different concentrations. Smokey was 18 lbs and got 0.1-0.3 ml.

 

Thanks, Paula. It seemed high to me, but I was feeling a bit too fuzzy headed myself to judge. Hopefully the 2.5ml is just a different concentration, or else a typo.

 

Sorry .25 dose! Not right today, sleepless & worried for the past few days!

 

Mirtazapine is an atypical antidepressant. It calms down vomiting & diahpoo but stimulates appetite. Not related to a pain med. But both together - whew!

 

Yes, mirtazapine can cause them to be vocal and sometimes agitated. Bupe can make them goofy or stoned. You can try reducing the bupe dose a little if needed.

 

How much Mirtazapine (in mg) was given?
If you are giving it again how long from first dose?
How much does Baby weigh? 0.25 ml is on the high side for a normal size cat.

 

My civvie went totally crazy on the bupe.

And Jones did nothing but cry on the mirtz.

 

The mirtz dose is 1/4 tablet every 3 days. 15 mg
The bupe is .25 every 12 hours. Baby weighs 9 lbs & thank you guys! She’s had bupe after her eye removal, it just made her sleepy back then... of course if it too much I’ve heard it can affect them the opposite. If I try to hold her or try to get her to relax, she is growling at me!

 

She’s having a bad reaction to the mirtz sounds like. She has eaten like back to normal (finally) for the first time in 5 days. Should I just not give or lower the dosages of both! I hope the mirtz gets out of her system soon! She can’t be still.

 

Those days with Bella flying high, I laughed and laughed he would not shut up, I’ve often wondered if he did it all day when I was at work and maybe driving neighbors nuts

 

She’s ok if I let her outside, I’ve been out here practically all day watching her. Otherwise she is at the door, non stop meowing! It’s making me nuts! But it doesn’t take much for that! Lol
I can tell she’s very agitated. Now I worry my vet has not dosed her right... I’ve had so many vets that have hurt rather than helped my animals, it scares me. I have little trust in most.

 

You might want to ask your vet for cyproheptadine instead of mirtz

It doesn't seem to cause as many problems as mirtz does (and it can be given twice a day IF needed)

 

Ok thank you Chris- yes, I can’t give her this again! I just hope the bupe will relieve her enough to have some appetite! I’ll write this down...

 

I've had the same thing happen with mirtz -- it was so dramatic and the cat seemed so distressed that I didn't use it in her again.

I second Chris' recommendation for cyproheptadine. I first used it over 20 years ago and am really surprised more vets don't prescribe it.

 

@JL and Chip - ok I know. It’s awful, I feel so bad for her! Thank you!

 

Is she any calmer this morning?

 

Yes she is! She finally calmed down after I gave her 1/2 of her bupe last night. She hadn’t rested or slept all day. At least she is eating. I guess I don’t get how this helps the pancreatitis- just masking the pain. No cures. Thank you Nan for all your help & caring. I am very appreciative! Have a beautiful day!

 

Yes, pancreatitis is a frustrating one-- no cure or fix, just treating symptoms. But, they feel soooooo much better with the pain meds, and that's something.

Glad to hear she's a bit better today, and still eating!

 

I have read that the old recommended dosage of mirtazipine was higher than the current recommended dosage, and some vets still recommend the higher dose.

TOO high. Imagine being stoned with MAJOR munchies but unable to eat, or eat enough to satisfy, and not knowing why. And being a cat.

Mirt at much higher doses also often causes hunger and weight gain in humans. Otherwise, it's a good anti-depressant as far as I know.

Then bupe, an opioid. I found with Dweezy, after an injected version he was high, SO happy and affectionate, he'd trot to you whenever you moved. Full to the brim with love.

But oral bupe was a bit different. A much lesser dose and more subtle, and he didn't seem relaxed or happy, but just a little more sensitive and nervy.

 

I’ve given Baby I/2 dose of her oral bupe this am... just seems calm & laid back. Still eating well, so that’s a plus. But to me the mirtz is torture for Baby! Never again! Thank you for that info! Baby was very affectionate all day yesterday in between her meowing!

 

That dosage and schedule has been shown to be too high and frequently cause the symptoms you described. Now 1/8 of 15 mg tab every two days is recommended.
http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/mirtazapine-cats-how-much-too-much

 

I’m super glad she’s better

 

Oh my @Larry and Kitties - thank you soooo much. I wish I knew good ways to inform the vet of this... most wont take any info seriously. Js -she should have known this! Thank you!
@Bellasmom -thank you sweetheart... I hope this stuff goes away quick! My poor little girl!

 

Thank you all... thankful & blessed to have help!!

 

How is Baby doing today?

 

She’s eating but I can tell things aren’t ok. She’s had lose stool this whole time & that continues. The vet said we could do a GI panel if we want to know more?!? $200...giving her the bupe just in case. Thanks for checking on her!

 

Hopefully the bupe will do it-- pancreatitis is very painful, and flares can last a while.

Have you tested her B12? If that's low, B12 shots can sometimes help with pancreatitis and IBD-type aspects (cause/effect unclear to me, but whatever). I'd have to dig out paperwork on cost, but it's gotta be cheaper than doing a full GI panel (not sure what else that involves).

 

Having a bad trip
Like this one time at the lake...
and someone had Orange Barrel
and then this guy who had a boat said get in...
and we did.
Noah has been on BUPE forever, I had to quadruple Nigel's BUPE at the end. If you gave BGK too much she would not be meowing.
Or the time I broke my wrist into a pretzel and the admitting nurse almost fainted. I think they gave me more-fine.

 

@Noah & me (GA)
@Nan & Amber
I’m giving her B12 shots every day (50 units in our u100 syringes) & I know now that the mirtz was causing the meowing. (Not given since wed) Thank you guys, just trying to make sure I’m doing all that I can. I did read that mirtz can cause diahpoo too.. so maybe when that’s out of her system, that will subside.

 

That seems high. What is concentration of the B12?
Also see:
http://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/research/cobalamin-information

 

@Larry and Kitties
I thought so too... I’m bad with conversion & she figured it to match my needles. I erred on the side of caution & went for 30 which is 1 u/100 syringe full. Doesn’t say concentration, just .5 ml on her syringes that I didn’t take. I guess I should have but she did the conversion. Her syringes were 29 gauge is why. I do 31 on Baby...thanks again- you’re so knowledgeable on this stuff!

 

Hmmm, yes. I do 0.25ml (which I think is equivalent to 25U on a U100 syringe; I use different syringes for the B12) once a week.

Pretty sure B12 is one of those things you have to really work hard to overdose, but that does seem like a lot. Maybe give your vet a call to double-check it wasn't supposed to be weekly?

 

adding: that said, I'm at work now and can't check concentrations, arrgh.

 

Well she said what they don’t use they flush out... doesn’t harm them.
Now she’s vomiting & diahrhea- oh my calling vet!

 

Could all still be pancreatitis, honestly, but I'm glad you're calling the vet about it.

 

Take away food & water for a while.. give cerenia... if the poo continues come a get an anti-diahrea med. From now on give cerenia first thing in morning. .... ok - she was drinking, gulping water non stop. Lighting candles in the house... phewie

 

I hate to hear baby is still feeling bad sending lots of
Hope she gets to feeling better soon!!!”

 

Thanks @Bellasmom needed that, worried sick! Never have seen her like this! She’s a mess & so am I.

 

How is baby doing?

 

Honestly about the same... diarrhea every time she eats... don’t know what else to do. I just quit giving her meds to see if that’s doing it or making it worse? Feeling defeated...

 

We stayed in bed most of the day... worn out emotionally.

 

I am so sorry Becky, maybe doc can give something for diarrhea or I just started Sammie on probiotic yogurt about 1 to 2 tablespoons a day, this am was the first time he didn’t have the runs in a while, he didn’t poop a lot just runny when he did, I’ve attached a link if u want to read

http://www.thepawsitter.com/how-to-treat-diarrhea-in-cats-at-home/
They have sugar free yogurt
Just a thought

 

It’s dannon activia probiotic yogurt, says billions of live and active probiotics, from what I read it gets rid of the bad bacteria

 

I’m so sorry I wish there was something I could do

 

Thank you- I’ll try some yogurt & call tomorrow for the vet to give something.

 

Hope you all have a better day, sending lots of vines and

 

Thank you sweet friends!! Hugs back!

 

I think a call to your vet tomorrow is a good idea. All this diarrhea can dehydrate her and other problems can arise from that.

Meanwhile I found this posted by @Marje and Gracie on someone else's thread on the Lantus forum:

Jarrow Brand S. Boulardii is the most commonly locally available S. Boulardii supplement (in the U.S.). It is usually sold as S. Boulardii + MOS. “MOS” are mannan-oligosaccharides, a medium that promotes utilization of the probiotic in the intestines. It seems the MOS makes the product bitter, as most kitties will eat “plain” S. boulardii (Nutricology, A.O.R. and Renew Life brands listed here) when sprinkled on or mixed into foods – but not the S. Boulardii with MOS. This is not to say this product cannot be used, it can, but it usually needs to be syringed or pilled into the cat. If you can find an S. boulardii supplement at 5 billion CFU without MOS (there are plenty of other brand options, at least online), you may find it easier to use if your cat is not inappetent. Jarrow does have a product available in premeasured packets rather than capsules. If available, these packets will make it a little easier to use for emergency treatment if you have or can purchase small (size 3) empty capsules. Some cats eat the Jarrow S boulardii mixed into a bit of Beechnut baby food and fed as a “treat.”

For emergency “stop diarrhea” use, it is recommended to purchase size 3 empty capsules. Fill 10 or so of these, and administer them to your cat every 2 hours. This often stops diarrhea within 24 – 48 hours, other than when diarrhea is caused by another disease that requires treatment (low B12, exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, hyperthyroidism, as examples). This “loading dose” can be continued for three to four days if necessary. It is NOT necessary to use this approach, it can be given at “therapeutic” doses twice a day (and doubled if you see improvement in stool but diarrhea or soft cow patty stools have not resolved).

NOTE: IF USE OF S BOULARDII MAKES DIARRHEA WORSE, STOP. Give kitty a break for 3 days, and start over at a MUCH smaller amount, and very slowly work up to the therapeutic dose. If even the small amount makes diarrhea worse, your cat is likely sensitive to yeasts and this cannot be given.

When the diarrhea has resolved with use of the emergency stop treatment protocol, begin use of S. boulardii at the therapeutic dose level (2.5 billion CFU twice daily) and continue for at least one week and up to one month; then adjust dose to the maintenance level (half that), or use the Nexabiotic 21-strain probiotic for maintenance. If stools soften, resume use of S. boulardii at the therapeutic dose as needed. Given its role in improving performance of bacterial probiotics and its anti-inflammatory properties, the use of S boulardii at maintenance levels can be continued indefinitely along with a bacterial probiotic.

 

Thanks, Kris, for linking that.

I would definitely try the S. boulardii. It can really help with diarrhea unless her B12 levels are too low. Because you are giving B12 injections, I’m assuming your vet tested and found it was too low? Hopefully, it’s on the way up.

I’m glad you cut the bupe dose. While too high of a dose of mirtz can cause those symptoms, I believe it was most likely the bupe. The same exact thing happened when my kitten was spayed. The poor baby didn’t sleep for 24 hours. I cut the dose in half and she’s did much better.

Many vines for your baby!

 

Thanks, @Marje and Gracie!

 

Thank you both!! I appreciate any help at this point!