Bad meter readings?

Discussion in 'Caninsulin / Vetsulin and N / NPH' started by FamousJay, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. FamousJay

    FamousJay New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Hello all,

    I'm new here and after browsing these forums I figured I would make an account to ask my questions as I couldn't find an answer. My cat Mimi was diagnosed by the vet with diabetes about 2 weeks ago, I first was concerned when she was peeing 4-5 times a day and they were HUGE pee's (wouldnt fit in the pail) she was kept over night for a urine sample and the blood sample read 366mg. After getting the news and all the information/Vetsulin from my Vet, I purchased a ReliOn Confirm meter and didnt take the first reading until 4 days after we started the 2U/twice a day of Vetsulin. The schedule looks like this:
    6:00 AM first 2U dose and first meal
    11:00 AM second meal
    3:30 PM Blood reading and Third meal
    6:00 PM second 2U dose.
    8:00 PM half a meal.

    Each reading was taken 8 hours after first shot.
    7.24 was 237 (tested twice)
    7.26 was 79 (tested twice)
    7.27 was 39 (tested 3 times)
    7.28 was 37 (tested once)
    7.29 was 25(tested once)

    My vet was very concerned about the readings but I told her Mimi was not acting or showing any sort of sign of HYPO she naps like she usually does, jumps on her cat tree (5 foot up) and lays in the window, eats normally, etc, even her urination went down to 1-2 a day and normal size. So on 7.28 she advised I do a glucose curve (reading every 1:30 for 12 hours) which I did on 7.30 :The following readings are AFTER not giving her second dose on 7.28 and NO INSULIN AT ALL on 7.29

    I gave her a normal 2U shot at 7:30
    7:30 - 37mg - before first meal
    9:00 - 22mg after first meal
    10:30 - 28mg after first meal
    12:00 - 29mg before second meal
    1:40 - 42mg after second meal
    3:20 - 46mg after second meal
    4:40 - 47mg before 3rd meal
    6:20 - 45mg after 3rd meal
    I did not give her a second dose on 7.30

    I did not test yesterday but did today with a reading of 61mg, after reporting the values to my vet she still seemed overly concerned my cat should be in HYPO and advised I lower the dose to 1U/2x a day. But again she is cleaning herself, walking just fine, actually seen her run after a cat toy for the first time in a month, she is acting totally normal.

    Sorry for the wall of text but this has all been crazy for me and I want my Mimi to be healthy and I dont want to overdose/underdose her. Should I get another meter like the AlphaTrak2 to test with? I didnt go with it at first because of the cost (Expecting our first child in a couple months) and money is a little tight at the moment. Should I stop the insulin all together and just monitor? My Vet thinks its highly unlikely she went into remission but those numbers seem excessively low for the meter I have after browsing the forums.

    Any help is wanted, thank you.

    Edit: here is a picture of her taken just a minute ago http://imgur.com/a/A61pE
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  2. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Welcome Jay and Mimi!
    So the readings in bold are without being given insulin? The curve readings. If so, you may have yourself a diet controlled diabetic :smuggrin:. With administering insulin those numbers are definitely too low. Very surprised your Vet still wants you to give her an insulin shot with a BG of 61, please do not do that! She will go hypo. 50 - 120 on human meter is normal BG ranges for a kitty.

    Did you immediately switch to all wet food low carb diet?
     
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  3. FamousJay

    FamousJay New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Thank you! I guess I could have worded that section better, the readings in bold, the day and a half prior I didn't give her shots (3 total missed shots) But I did give her one that morning of the curve test. She has not had a shot since Sunday morning at the start of the test.

    I have given my cats wet food as treats on and off so the first two days I mixed kibble with wet food, I think that is why the first reading on 7.24 was so high (I didn't post 7.25 reading it was 162) but after the first two days they started eating the wet without any kibble and has been on wet food only from 7.26 to now. I have been feeding them Fancy feast classics and friskies pate following the chart that has been posted on here.

    She has not had her past 5 shots and is still reading 61 on my ReliOn, so it's not the meter and I should just continue to monitor glucose and give shot if it's over 120?

    Thank you.
     
  4. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Wow! While I am delighted to see Mimi is doing so well.....you are one lucky soul! Lucky to have a cat that appears to have gone into remission so soon and lucky Mimi is still with you! :nailbiting: Several of those 8 hour post shot readings are well below normal BG for a cat on a human meter and had you been here at those times, we would have been directing you to feed your cat/rub syrup on her gums and monitor her very closely for awhile after readings that low. The fact that they occurred 8 hours post shot indicates the 2u of insulin was far too much for Mimi. Normal starting dose for Vetsulin is 1u or less.

    There have been cases where a cat has a hypo event and reverts immediately and I can't help but wonder if that is what happened with Mimi with what appears to be consecutive days of hitting seriously low BG levels. I would continue to monitor Mimi withholding food for 2 hours pre-test to see what her BG is without any food influence.

    PLEASE do not give Mimi any insulin unless her BG is at least 200 or above and reduce the dose to at least 1.0u if not 0.5u and monitor her closely after any insulin. If you do give insulin again, I suggest you test 3 hours post shot to see how much she has dropped from the pre-shot reading. This will generally give you a good idea of whether the cycle is going to be active or not. Most cats hit their lowest reading between +4 and +6 with Vetsulin.

    I would caution you that with all those low readings, her BG may be low right now due to depletion of her glucagon stores. Glucagon is released into the bloodstream when the body panics due to low BG levels. I hope with all my heart that she has indeed gone into remission but it's also possible that her BG will begin to rise again once her defence system has replenished itself so please do keep monitoring her everyday for at least the next two weeks. If she stays in normal numbers for 14 consecutive days, then you can proclaim her in remission and hold a party. Hope we'll be invited!:)
     
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  5. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Right just because the higher end of normal BG is 120 doesn't mean we want you to give insulin that low until you have lots and lots and lots of data. But it really does sound like she's going into remission and will be diet controlled :). So like Linda stated, no insulin for PS readings of <200 :)
     
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  6. FamousJay

    FamousJay New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Thank you both for the advice, so we dont believe its bad readings from the meter? I ordered an AlphaTrak2 just now from Amazon, I was under the impression it was like other meters and was the $55 without the test strips + $55 dollars for 50 test strips, but I see that with the kit they give you 25 strips with it. It wont come in until tail end of next week but I only plan on doing another glucose curve test with it to compare readings as the strips are really expensive to be used daily.

    I will continue to test her blood everyday this time instead of doing it at 3:30ish everyday ill do it in the morning when she usually got her first shot. Hopefully it is the food, we did switch her food quite drastically from one dry kibble to another before diagnosis, I wonder if that had a part in what is going on with her. Shes taken to the wet food more so then my male cat who is a kibble addict but I feel like she isnt eating enough, she never finishes a full can of FF classics. I always end up scrapping the leftovers off which is anywhere from 1/2 to 1/4 of the can. Hopefully it will get better with time, I have even sat in the floor and hand fed her the wet food trying to get her to eat more.

    So starting 8/2 if she stays in the 60-120 mark for 2 weeks then we are looking pretty good? I am supposed to call the Vet Thursday and give an update on the reading with the 1U dose, but I will inform the Vet of the readings and tell her I have not been giving Mimi her shots.

    I will continue to monitor this thread and post any updates, you both have been more help then all the reading ive been doing the last 3 nights. Thank you so much.
     
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  7. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    A few more things you need to know.......

    Some cats, like some humans, do not show symptoms of hypoglycemia and will go from appearing/acting perfectly fine into a seizure in the blink of an eye.
    I would suggest you print out the documentation on dealing with low numbers and hypos at
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

    The readings on the AlphaTrak meter will be higher than the Relion readings. This is normal and doesn't mean either meter is malfunctioning. The normal range on the AlphaTrak meter is 70 to 150. If using the pet meter, DO NOT give insulin unless BG is 225 to 250. There is no way to convert the readings from a pet meter to a human meter and vice versa. Generally the higher the BG the bigger the difference in the readings will be.

    If you do have to resume giving insulin, I would aim to have Mimi go no lower than 90 on the human meter or 115 on the AlphaTrak to begin with given the history. Once you have more data, it will be possible to aim a little lower but I'd be conservative right now for safety sake.

    Fingers and paws crossed Mimi doesn't need any more insulin! :)
     
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  8. FamousJay

    FamousJay New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Just checking in with some more readings, Mimi has not had an insulin shot since 7/30

    RelioOn Confirm Readings:
    8/2 5:20 A.M - 41 mg - Before any food
    8/3 10:10 AM - 38 mg- 3 hours after food
    8/4 10:10 AM - 36 mg - 3 hours after food
    8/5 8:30 AM - 44 mg - 2 hours after food
    8/6 10:10 AM - 49 mg - 3 Hours after food

    AlphaTrak 2 came in on 8/7:
    8/7 3:20 PM - 95 mg - 3 hours after food
    8/8 4:00 PM - 81 - 4 hours after food

    My vet called on 8/4 after reading her the 1st - 4th readings and she wants me to bring Mimi in for a glucose curve test on Thursday. As I understand it her BG will be higher from the stress of being at the vet but they should take that into account. Again the first time I took her in for the initial diagnosis she said her BG read 360ish.

    Im starting to believe as long as she stays on the wet food she may be over the diabetes.
     
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  9. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Those are WONDERUL numbers!! Since it has been 9 days without insulin you are well on your way to being officially OTJ (off the juice) After 14 days with no insulin and staying in normal numbers you can consider Mimi diet controlled.

    There is no reason to do a vet curve. You are home testing which is much more reliable than at the vets where stress can affect the numbers. Tell your vet you will do a full curve using the Alpha Trak 2 meter and report the numbers to her. Why waste the time, money and stress having the vet do it when you can do it at home.
     
  10. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Whoo Hoo!:joyful: Lovely numbers indeed! I agree with Mary Ann. Do a curve at home if the vet insists on a it but frankly I think your random testing says it all and doing a curve isn't going to add any further information. Your numbers prove that Mimi is holding her numbers over a lengthy period of time whereas a curve is just one day out of many! :rolleyes:
     
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  11. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Beautiful numbers :cat:! 5 more days to be officially OTJ! (off the juice) and having a diet controlled kitty! :woot:
     
  12. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    How awesome!!
     

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