? BG 81, should I be worried tonight?

Discussion in 'Caninsulin / Vetsulin and N / NPH' started by mary hornbeck, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    What days r us talking about, there were some blues ( under 200) during the PMPS so I didn’t give any insulin

    * when u say “ dose a little at those low numbers” would that be under 200? Would that still be a small dose of 0.05u, I thought we weren’t supposed to dose under 200

    * the only day that I missed was the 23rd that I can see, another day, the 22 reading, i retested at 7p instead of 6
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  2. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    What is going on with marmalades numbers, can anyone explain. I know no number will never be the same, but will I ever get to regulation
     
  3. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    ,I understand now. Just took more BG readings, per SS, and can’t figure out which sliding scale to use, old or revised
     
  4. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Hi Mary,

    I think Janet means that in the PM between Dec 20 and yesterday, you didn't give insulin three times. Twice it was because his PMPS was below 200 and once you were at work and the decision was made to skip because the shot would have been too off schedule.

    If Marmalade is well under 200 at PS (like the 122 on Dec. 21) skipping is what you have to do. However, when he's very close to 2oo like the 192 last night you can either:
    • stall for 15 minutes without shooting, retest and if he's at or above 200 give the full dose from that part of the sliding scale Janet designed for you.
    • OR drop the dose a little bit lower to the next rung on the sliding scale.
    It can be hard to get a kitty settled and regulated. A lot of it is trying safe doses and logging data to build up a history of his responses. If you have a bouncy kitty like Marmalade it's even harder.

    At some point you might try another insulin but use the Vetsulin while you have it and keep getting BG data.
     
  5. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Do u think I should go to the revised sliding scale that janet posted for me, if marmaladevwas your kitty what would u do?
     
  6. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    If you are too nervous to shoot under 200 then don't yet. The new scale is the same as the old one except a few suggestions for lower numbers. So if you aren't ready for that yet then keep doing what you're doing. :)
     
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  7. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    K, janet. I apologize for being repetetative. I was so happy about being 82 today then I gave him some cat food +2 later and he was at 340, go figure. This is really hard for me because it’s like you are in the boat or out of the boat. Is there a reason why I got that jump today? Would it be better to skip that noon meal time? Maybe my feeding schedule is making matters worse. My work schedule is as follows:

    Monday- 10a-3:30p
    Tuesday and Wednesday 9a-12p
    Thursday- 9a-3p
    Friday- 9a-12p break inbetween then from 2:30-3:30 latest

    * any suggestions for a better feeding schedule are welcomed. He has been getting between 3-4 cans per day
     
  8. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    It's OK to feed mid day. You are only feeding fancy feast classic, right? Nothing with gravy?
     
  9. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    yes, only fancy feast classics, no gravy
     
  10. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Any idea of why he went from 82 from 340 in 2 hours
     
  11. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    It's the classic, not florentine or indoor formula?
     
  12. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Yes
     
  13. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Wow you have a very carb sensitive cat.
     
  14. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    I get so close to the yellows then bam I am in the purple, it drives me over the edge
     
  15. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    BG dropping, slowly, per SS. Maybe I’ll be in the yellow by 6p
     
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  16. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    303 isn't a bad preshot. :)
     
  17. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Went to 1.75 units and decided to go with the revised dosing scale.
     
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  18. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Are the greens good, see SS. I wonder if I should of gone with 1.5 vs 1.75, did I make a mistake
     
  19. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    No mistake... We want to see those high greens. Looks good.
     
  20. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Hi everybody: (stalling)
    Marmalades BG was 218 tonight. Should I do 1.25 per janet’s sliding scale or should I do 1 unit since it’s just over 200? Need some direction. Thank you
     
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  21. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I suggest you try the sliding scale dose of 1.25 u, Mary.
     
  22. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Glad to see these nice numbers today. :)
     
  23. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Janet, would he still be 1.25 since he is just over 200
     
  24. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I would say yes... but you hold the syringe, so it’s your call.
     
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  25. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    K, I’ll do the 1.25, then I’ll take some bg’s later
     
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  26. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    why am I all of a sudden in the purple for the AMPS and PMPS., losing my motivation to see the light at end of tunnel. No matter how much insulin BG shows no major change, just how I am feeling. Getting discouraged, again
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  27. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    He's probably bouncing from that green last night and you don't know what his daytime numbers were today.
     
  28. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Slowly creeping up to 400bg in the AMPS, how does everyone feel about decreasing to 2.5 units vs 2.25 units per sliding scale
     
  29. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Go for it.
     
  30. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Janet marmalade in the red tonight, gave 2.5 units, should we adjust scale again
     
  31. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Why is he jumping around so much? His numbers seem to be getting worse, this week anyway
     
  32. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Good call giving 2.5. Hope he's lower for you tomorrow. I think they do this to drive us nuts.
     
  33. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    I am literally confused everyday. It seems like no matter how much insulin he gets I can’t get out of the purple for the AMPS or PMPS
     
  34. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Yes, they drive us nuts and after all marmalade is a hard nut to crack, literally. Have you ever had a cat like him as far as numbers
     
  35. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    You've got a bouncy kitty there. It looks like it lasts awhile, but as soon as it wears off its like a light switch and just shoots back up.
     
  36. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    In a case like this does a cat like mine ever get regulated?
     
  37. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Lots of people have cats that are bouncy like this, yes. Esp the first few months.
     
  38. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes yes sometimes no. All we can do is the best we can do and hope it works. It's easy too early to tell. Whether she ever gets completely regulated or not you are helping her feel better and keeping her healthy. :)
     
  39. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Look how much better she's doing from even 3 weeks ago! So many more blues and greens! You're doing a great job!
     
  40. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Does a curve have to be every 2 hours? Can it be 3 hours?
     
  41. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Thank u janet I so needed to hear that. I am so disappointed at the numbers lately even though I know the number varies. I don’t mind the variation if it was more consistent, below 300 bg
     
  42. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    How do u think about 3 units AMPS and PMPS, do u think it would be too much, just curious.
     
  43. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Any data you get is fine. Typically a curve is every 2 hours for 12 hours or every 3 hours for 18 hours. But just get what you can get, particularly around 4-6 hours after.
     
  44. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    K, I’ll try tonight. Would 10 and 12 be good.
     
  45. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Not sure. My guess is too much. Don't get hung up on the preshots.... Just work on tweaking to get that lowest number down. Aim for 80-90. The hope is as she gets used to being in those lower numbers that over time she will bounce less and the preshots will slowly come down.
     
  46. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Up to you. Whatever is easiest. Don't forget to sleep. ;)
     
  47. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    K, thank u for the encouragement
     
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  48. nmveasey

    nmveasey Member

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    Marmalade is lucky to have you Mary. Keep up the good work and try not to get frustrated. You are doing a great job!
     
  49. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Janet got more numbers through the night. I think that’s as close t a curve as I’m going to get. Missed 2 am data though. Sorry about SS I somehow messed u my rows and don’t know how t fix.
     
  50. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Thank u for the kind words
     
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  51. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Looks like bouncing to me, Mary. Don't worry about those wider rows on your SS. Try not to get too discouraged though - bouncy cats are common and they make it harder for us to find a good dose range. Tough on us emotionally too. :bighug:
     
  52. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Once again, I know it’s early in the game but looking by SS, what’s the consensus? Should I do a fructosamine test through my vet or would that just confirm the data that I already have?

    * prior to me deciding to make the food switch marmalade was on 2.5 units twice a day, given the numbers on the spreadsheet would that be better to go back to that and continue to take BG levels at then AMPS and PMPS? Just wondering
     
  53. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Am I continuing to bounce if the AMPS and PMPS remains to the same color coding, in my case purple?
     
  54. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Doseage change since BG doesn’t go down on some days with am and pm dose?
     
  55. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I think for now 2 u is looking fairly good. @JanetNJ might have other ideas related to a sliding scale.
     
  56. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    I am just wondering if narmalade should have a different sliding scale for am and pm
     
  57. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    That's why I tagged Janet, Mary. I have no expertise with sliding scales and she does.
     
  58. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    What are you thinking you want to try? Make amand pm different how ? More am or more pm?
     
  59. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Maybe more for pm, I’m not sure. Every time I think the pm numbers are going down the am numbers seem to go up. Any thoughts

    Maybe another .25 to current scale?
     
  60. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    As long as you can test, go ahead. But maybe only raise it all by 0.25 units.
     
  61. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    lately his numbers, pre shots, have not changed much at all, it seems to me
     
  62. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Can u repost that scale with the .25 increase, do u think it’s warranted given his SS
     
  63. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Do u think a fructosamine test would be helpful at this point?
     
  64. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    For what? Fructosamine tests are good to diagnose a new diabetic, but a 3 week average isn't going to tell you anything you don't know.
     
  65. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I don't have it in front of me. If you do just add 0.25. I'm gunna go chill and get to bed early. Hoping for a snow day tomorrow.
     
  66. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Janet BG 372 this morning. Went by your sliding scale and added.25 which brought it u to 2.5 units. I am getting really frustrated since he’s creeping up to 400 at every preshot.
     
  67. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good. Crossing fingers for good numbers for you today.
     
  68. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Take some deep breaths, Mary, and try not to focus on each individual number or it'll make you crazy. Just follow the dosing scale, ask for help in changing it when needed, accumulate your BG data and stand back periodically to look at the overall trends on your SS. I find that squinting at it helps me see trends better.

    Getting a kitty regulated can take a long time so patience is very important and you don't want to have all the anxiety created by focusing too much on individual numbers and wanting him to be better ASAP. FD doesn't work that way for most of us. I've been at it 2 years with Teasel and only in the last few months have I seen decent progress.

    Because we keep so much data here on FDMB we can forget to actually LOOK at our kitty to see how he/she is doing - eating, peeing, pooping, playing, grooming, and so on. We often have to remind each other - our kitty is more than the BG numbers. :)
     
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  69. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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  70. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    @JanetNJ .It went good. But once again I am very confused. I had sent my spreadsheet to my vet and she felt that 1.5 units was a good number for him and that 1/2 can of food twice a day would be enough for him. I was giving him 3-4 cans per day of the friskies pate. I would really like to stay with this forum and hopefully haven’t offended anyone. I haven’t posted but his numbers are as follows: ( I am back tracking since I am not sure where I left off on the SS, I think I left off Friday am.

    1/4/18
    6a- BG 364, 2.5 units (per sliding scale), 1/2 can of food
    12p- BG 84, 1/2 can if food
    1:30p- BG 118
    5:30p- BG 368, 1.5 units ( per vets suggestion), 1/2 can of food
    8p- BG 299

    1/5/18
    6a- BG 379, 1.5 units, 1/2 can of food
    1:44p- BG 144, 1/4 can of food
    6p- BG 412, 1.5units, 1/2 can of food
    8p- BG 308
    10p- BG 289

    1/6/18
    6a- BG 252, 1.5 units, 1/2 cup of food
    4p- BG 115, 1/2 tsp of food

    * data so far, I hope I haven’t offended anyone BG sending my spreadsheet to my vet. I’m not sure how good this but he is still getting closer to 400 by the AMPS. My vet suggested revisiting this after a couple of days to see his the 1.5 would hold him. I personally think he would do better with 2 units; which I’ve done in the past; on my own

    * in a good note, his ears don’t have as much wax build up

    * although the vet suggests 1,5 units do u feel 2 would be better given numbers posted?
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  71. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Janet, I forgot to reply to your entry, I’m sorry. I replied under that, I’ll get used to this someday, I’m sorry, I am trying to get better at this
     
  72. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    I feel so bad for my cat he gets so Hungary that he will try to eat plastic wrappers on food items that are on the floor, my vet suggests no snacking throughout the day
     
  73. nmveasey

    nmveasey Member

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    1 can if food a day is not enough for Marmalade.

    Based on the formula from catinfo.org for required calories to maintain weight:
    Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70

    For Marmalade: [13.6 X 16 pounds] + 70 = 287.6 calories per day to maintain his weight.

    The Friskies Pate cans range from 165-189 calories per can. So if he were regulated, which he is not yet, then he would require approximately 2 cans per day to maintain his 16 pounds.

    Since Marmalade is still having high numbers, his body is requiring more food. High blood sugar levels affect the body’s ability to absorb nutrients...hence the ravenous hunger. Keep feeding him what you feel he needs.
     
  74. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    i didn’t think it was enough either, k. I will give him more food tonight at bedtime. Right now he is jumping on and off of my bed and starring me down
     
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  75. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Why is marmalade still ravenous if his BG is 115?

    * maybe he was better with the fancy feast in light of scratching and vigorous grooming after he eats, in terms of carbs. He is still scratching a little bit, even with the friskies pate
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  76. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    1.5 is fine when the bg is 252. Not enough when it's 379.

    1 can is not enough for such a big cat. At all. 4 is a lot but as long as he's not gaining weight I guess it's what he needs. My 16-17 pound non diabetic cat ate about 4-5 cans of ff. So about 12-15 ounces a day.... (About the same as 2.5-3 cans of Friskies) So it would make sense that your cat, who is not regulated yet, might need a little more.
     
  77. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    @JanetNJ . So I should stick with the 1.5 say under 300’s but do a 1.75 if above 320 say? I hope I haven’t offended anyone janet.

    * in light of the vet confusing me more, do u think I should stick with the previous sliding scale at:
    Over 320- 2 units
    280-320- 1.75 units
    250-280- 1.5

    Vs. changing this to the new revised scale, which is 2.25 units over 375.
    Janet I don’t know what to do, I really value your advise and guidance but at the sane time I don’t want to get my vet upset with me by going to another resource
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  78. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    It's your call. At the end of the day you hold the syringe. It's all trial and error anyway.... All we can do is take our best educated guess and see what happens. If whatever you choose isn't working, try something else.
     
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  79. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    In light of the most recent numbers that I have posted do u feel the initial sliding scale would be best, for right now, that is? Which scale would u use?
     
  80. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I don't think 1.5 will be quite enough much of the time.
     
  81. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    hey janet, my number at 6p was 227 so I did 1.25 units, that is good right?
     
  82. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Wow great preshot! Great let's see what happens. :)!!!
     
  83. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    When you get a chance please update the spreadsheet, please. :) Any chance of getting a +4 tonight so you can see where is taking him? If that's too late try for a +3.
     
  84. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Yes, I was going to do a +3 or 4, no problem. Thank u for being patient with me
     
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  85. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    I will also update spread sheet by tomorrow afternoon
     
  86. nmveasey

    nmveasey Member

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    I’m familiar with the cat stare down. Lol
     
  87. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Oh my god, it’s so funny. Marmalade will sit on my coffee table as I’m laying on the couch
     
  88. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    BG 224 @9p (+3)
     
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  89. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Just updated marmalades SS, he’s been in the red. You would think it wouldn’t surprise me but it frustrates me every time. On the 7th would too much insulin raise his BG? I was wondering if I should of done 1,5 vs 2 this morning.
     
  90. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Janet just updated marmalades SS, any feedback would be welcomed.
     
  91. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what to tell you other than numbers fluctuate and you've got to handle them as they come.

    You are careful not to feed at least two hours prior to the preshot test, correct?
     
  92. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Yes
     
  93. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Janet, marmalade was 409 as I rounded to 6p, do u think 1.5 is enough? I was thinking more like 1.75u but once again I know it’s a guessing game
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  94. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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  95. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    Janet what really gets me is that my vet is okay with marmalades numbers being in the 300’s , I keep going back to feeling that his numbers could be better
     
  96. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    well that's why she suggested that low 1.5... because she doesn't think it's a problem to stay in higher number. I don't think 1.5 is going to get you where you need to be with high preshots at this point. I don't feel like being in the 300's... or even 200's for a low is an end goal.
     
  97. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    You would think with the spreadsheet showing good numbers she would change her mind about the 300’s being as good as it gets with him, I wonder if I should get a second opinion with another vet
     
  98. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    couldn't hurt.
     
  99. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    staying in the 300's long term you are just asking for trouble... stress on the organs, esp. kidneys... increased risk of dka.... increased risk of UTI... not a good plan.
     
  100. mary hornbeck

    mary hornbeck Member

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    I agree
     

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