Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Beardsley, Apr 1, 2018.
Beardsley blood reading am before food was 2.7 Is that too low. Thanks.
It is too low. DO NOT GIVE INSULIN.
Please take another test to
1. see if you had a wonky strip
2. see which way Beardsley is heading
Can you give him some food now to bring the BG up?
Take another test after he's done eating (like 30 min later) to make sure he is on his way up.
If you let us know a bit more about @Beardsley (his insulin and dosage), we can help you figure out a dose that can keep him safe.
Hello from Ontario (formerly Van Isle).
Beardsley gets 1 unit of Insulin after meal. 08:00 and 20;00 or 8 pm.He is eating Ziwi Peak Beef 33 Protein and 57 Fat and 10 Carbohydrates.
Still new at this. Have a hard time doing the blood reading. Saw the Vet 2 weeks ago. Told to do Insulin twice a day. I feel the Vets in Vancouver just want to push that food they sell in there Office. They can not think out of the box. Have had 5 Vets in the last 3 Years. I do like Ziwi Peak from NZ.
Good info in here for testing:
Congratulations on testing at home!!
That is going to help you a lot getting your kitty's diabetes under control, are you testing before shooting him?
It would help a lot if you let us know what insulin are you using and the results you've gotten when you test even if there are only a few right now, also if your cat has other health issues
Last Wednesday reading every 2 hour. 2.3, 3.9, 9.3, 21.3, 25.7, 29.7, Lantus SoloStar. Pen from Canada.
Are you testing before shooting him? It's very important to check if it is safe to shoot.
Do you have more recent results?
We use a spreadsheet to keep all the results, you may find it helpful and it will also make it easier for everyone in the forum to see how he's doing and help, this is the link with the instructions
Also since you are using Lantus this is the link to the lantus forum
Today before dinner at 8PM his reading was 26.6. Yesterday his am reading was 2.7 Why does it climb during the day? He only drinks water during the day. Thanks Jeff B
These BG readings suggest that the insulin dose is too high. It drops his BG very low and then he rebounds into a very high range. We call it bouncing.
I agree that las night 26.6 is probably a bounce ( he goes very low and his body reacts and takes him quite high), the dose may be too high, with yesterday's 2.7 I think he needs a reduction I suggest you try giving him 0.75 units every 12 hours ( the protocols suggest you do increments and decrements in 0.25 units ) and keep us posted on how he's doing.
I hope you can set up a spreadsheet that would help a lot keeping track on how he's doing if you have trouble setting it up let us know there are some people here that can help you.
I suggest you take a look on the Lantus protocols SLGS (http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/lantus-levemir-start-low-go-slow-method-slgs.129446/) TR (http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/lantus-levemir-tight-regulation-protocol-tr.1581/) so that you can decide which one suits you best and keep asking as much as you need we will try and help you
Update. Beardsley did not have Insulin today am, Just his wet food. Before dinner his reading was 20.0 then dinner then 1 unit of insulin. About March 8 I noticed drinking more water and a change in his box.He was also not motivated to move around much. Today April 3 he jumps up on bed and gets around slowly he is 18 years old. Just hope the diatetes goes away like 3 years ago.
Good to know he's feeling better .
Still I would suggest you start looking for a dose a little bit lower than 1 unit (maybe 0.75 unit) that will allow you to shoot am and pm ( Lantus works better when you can keep consistent) with without getting him too low
Hi, The smallest reading on the Lantus pen is 1 unit. Maybe squeeze out some drops?
You can use U100 insulin syringes to withdraw insulin from the pen. Take off the pen needle and under it you'll see the end of the cartridge that has a grey rubber seal on it. You insert the syringe needle through that. The best syringes to buy are those with half unit marks like these:
You can find similar at Walmart in their ReliOn brand.
As Kris mentioned using the pen as a mini vial instead of using the built in auto dosing device you can then with the syringe that has half unit markings eyeball the 0.75 units that would be halfway between the 0.5 and 1 unit mark, also that will allow you to keep the pen in the fridge and keep the insulin good for a longer time
Thanks for all your help with Beardsley. I read online that 80% of cats can go into remission with change of food. I took Beardsley off the dry food and only feed him Ziwi Peak Beef from New Zealand. His blood reading yesterday was 5.2 and he is active. He sleeps with me and is in and out of the bed all night. He is 18 years old and can get off and on the bed all night. have stopped the Insulin.
That's an excellent BG.
So glad this site exist. Not a good day for Beardsley his blood readings. 08:00 am 28.4 and 29.0 at 18;58 or 7 pm. His new food is Ziwi Peak 33 Protien,57 Fat and 10 Carbohydrates. Feel discouraged about his new food. Thought it would be better then Purina DM which the Vet pushed.
Beardsley had his Beef for breakfast then Insulin then 1 hour after blood reading was 2.6
That's very low after only an hour post dose. I strongly encourage you to set up the spreadsheet so we can help you better.
You had a worrisome low on April 1 above. You need help figuring this out and we can do that but only if we have data to look at.
Will go and see my Vet this week. Today Sunday Beardsley was all over the bed wanting Breakfast. Checked his blood at 08:07 before Beef and 29.4 then some Insulin. His reading before dinner last night was 14.2 dinner then no Insulin.
Cats do a lot better if you give the same dose AM and PM. Giving "some insulin" then no insulin depending on what the blood glucose is causes over or under dosing and makes it impossible to get their BG under good control. As an example, the BG of 29.4 followed by (preceded by?) a 14.2 tells me the dose is probably too high. I'd encourage you again to set up the spreadsheet and put all the numbers you have on it. We can certainly help but we need that info.
Is the spreed sheet hard to download on a old Mac Mini? Looked at downloading and got lost.
The spreadsheet lives online as a Google sheets item. It isn't downloaded to your computer. There are techies here who will do it for you. @Marje and Gracie is the main guru of spreadsheets.
The SS is downloaded to google drive (Kris...it’s only google sheets if you are using a tablet or smart phone).
If you’d like me to do the SS for you, I am happy to do so and it will just take me a couple minutes. I’ll need some info from you so if you’d like me to do it, please send me a private message. To do that, click on “Marje and Gracie” to the left and then “start a conversation”.
Whoops! My bad - not techie.
I went to see the vet with all my past BG readings and he thinks maybe Beardsley is not getting his Insulin. April 20 BG was 30.7 90 minutes after 1 unit of Insulin and meal. Just testing him after meal and Insulin shoot. #s too high. Will call him Monday. Maybe incress his dossage.
Does your vet mean that somehow there's something wrong with the way you're injecting?
Not sure.You pay them for a visit and get no follow up. Just check his BG before meals.
Thanks . I just email you all my past BG and time?
I read the past notes and Beardsley BG was lower. The last few days it has been HI. He sits on his heating pad and I pull his back hair up behined shoulder Blades and use a BD Ultra Fine 4MM 32 G pen. Now woundering if he is getting his Insulin. Meal ,Insulin the 60 mintes later BG test.
No, I don't enter the BGs and time. I'll make the SS for you in the correct format and you fill it in. If you send me a PM, I’ll let you know what info I need to do the SS
Going to get a longer needle tomorrow AM. BG reading after meal then Insulin was 32.9. I,m sure the insulin is going into his Fur. Needle I have is 4mm 32 gauge.
I'm not sure if shaving a spot where you can shoot has been suggested before but ,it may help since then you would be sure you are grabbing the skin and not just hair and inserting the needle in the skin
I shaved an area today and he got his Insulin. Bg was 25.0 He is going to the vets tomorrow for a blood test and maybe increasing his Insulin.
Does this happen that you have to increase the units? I thought with the low Carb Wet food and no dry that he would have normal levels by now.
The 25 were preshoot? Do you have a mid cycle test?
We would need to see some more data to try and figure out what's going on are you using the spreadsheet? If you are please link it to your signature so that we can see it , that would help a lot. A high reading after getting his insulin could be a "bounce " or it could be he needs more insulin or too much insulin (probably not your case since I think you mentioned you are giving him 1 unit but some kitties just need a very little)
Getting him regulated takes time you need to be patient and you will need to adjust his dose periodically
Off to see the Vets today. Blood test.
No mid cycle test. Test 1 hour after meals.
For the preshoot test we usually suggest you withdraw all food 2 hours before his shooting time so that the result you get is not food influenced and you are sure is safe to give insulin, then when his shooting time arrives test, shoot and feed. And the mid cycle tests that you do whenever is possible as well as the curves once a week is to check how he's actually responding to the insulin and if he needs a dose adjustment (dose needs to be adjusted periodically insulin is not like meds is a hormone), and find his nadir (the lowest number he gets) his numbers should vary during the day
Naturally his blood sugar will go up after eating, food gets converted into blood sugar so is kind of normal that his blood glucose will be a little bit high after eating, and with Lantus since is a long lasting insulin it would take a few hours (usually between 4 and 6 but it can vary , each cat is different ) for the insulin to start acting so is around 4 to 6 hours after you shoot that you would actually see his numbers go down.
Thanks for the Info.
How was your vet visit?
They have increased his Insulin shot to 2 Units. Last night after Meal 2 Units and he was very active. Today before Breakfast BG was 4.1
I hope you didn't give insulin on that before food BG of 4.1.
Insulin after food. He has lost weight so mix Fancy Feast Salmon with the Ziwi Peak Beef. Want to get his weight up.
Just did a BG reading. 2 hours before his food. BG 1.7 maybe no Insulin afer meal.
No! Please don't give insulin with a BG this dangerously low! This is a sign that his dose is too high. You need some proper U100 insulin syringes so you can draw insulin out of the Lantus pen in a smaller dose. The pen only allows full units and that's too much for him. I wouldn't give more that half a unit but there's no way to measure this out properly without a syringe.
If it were that easy all the cats on this board would be in remission.
Your dose is way too high.
Just gave Beardsley a little honey. Will feed him with no Insulin shot tonight.
If you're willing we can help you get him stabilized on a better dose. These dramatic lows aren't good for him. A good normal range would be 4 to 6 or so. You've gone from giving insulin to not giving insulin to giving 1 unit to 2 units, etc. There's no way you can stabilize him this way. If your goal is remission or even good regulation there are very strict and specific dosing practices you have to follow with Lantus.
Gave him 2 unit am. He had his dinner with no Insulin. before dinner BG1.7 2 hours after dinner BG2.7 and no Insulin. Will test am Monday before he gets Insulin.
Giving Beardsley Half a unit and BG is around 7.0 Want him to gain weight. Any cat food wet suggestions and low carbs?
Most of us feed fancy feast classic
Here is my Email address if you send the spread sheet then I can Print it. email@example.com
Is a bit of canned Pumpkin good for my skinny cat with hardley any poo in his box?
The spreadsheet is an online Google sheet. All the data is entered via your computer and it's there online for us to see.
Re pumpkin: you can try adding a very small amount to the canned food and adjust the quantity according to his response.
I’m out of the country now but Kris is correct. Again, if you send me a PM as indicated above, I’ll get some info from you and should be able to quickly do one in the evening.
Beardsley has had some good reading. if it is high I stick to one unit of insulin .If low then 1/2 a unit.Lets go back 7 days. June 29 14.2 and 10.7 June 30 21.0 and 22.9 July 01 6.3 and 18.9 July 02 17.0 and 12.5 July 03 9.5 and 19.5 July 4 12.9 and 16.3 July 05 18.7 and 6.9 Today July 06 6.6 He is eating lots of food ,but not gaining weight. Thanks Jeff B
Need to get his weight up.
With this numbers he's still not really regulated, and he will probably keep on having a lot of hunger until he gets regulated because the high levels of glucose in his blood are not allowing his cells to get the nutrients they need, this will also make him gaining weight a lot more difficult, but once his levels start to be consistently lower his appetite will probably go back to normal and he will slowly regain some weight.
Is hard to know what's going on without knowing the dose you were giving each time, it will really help a lot if you could fill the spreadsheet and share it with us.
I'm guessing the numbers you are giving us are the preshoot tests, are you taking those having withdrawn food two hours before the test (both AM and PM)? Also guessing since you only have these tests that you are following the SLGS (start low go slow ) protocol, with that one you will need to schedule a curve after a week ( that is testing every 2 hours for a 12 hour period or every 3 hours for an 18 hour period you only withdraw food for the preshoot tests the rest are done with your normal feeding meds, etc schedule ) to help see what's going on mid cycle.
With Lantus you need to keep the same dose AM PM as much as possible (unless he drops under 90 at any point during the day then you reduce de dose in 0.25 units) is very important to try and be consistent for the depot to work properly, and is dosed based on the lowest number he gets during the day (nadir), not on the AM, PM preshoots that's why is important to do a curve to see if he needs a dose adjustment
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