? Bounce 178@+6, 211@+9, 243 PMPS

Hi
Gizzy's been blue and green for 6 cycles except for a spike 5 cycles ago. I've decreased from 2.25 to 1.75 over the last 4 days. Now @ +2 he's 40. I gave him 1/2 can high cal food and will retest in 1/2 hour. Wondering what to do as far as dosing at this point.
Thanks,
Steph and Giz

 

There's likely some depot at play contributing to the low this morning. However, 40 is close enough to the 30's that I'd personally take another reduction to 1.5u. Back to back reductions (less than 4-6 cycles) is usually not recommended but sometimes kitties decided to race down the dosing scale. See what others have to say.

 

Ok. Thanks. He doesn't get a dose for another 8 hours. So I have time to get more replies.

 

Down to 38. Gave him dry food. Called vet, waiting for return call.

 

If you have any gravy containing MC/HC food then open the can, return the top on to hold the food inside and hold your fingers on the top, turn the opened can with the top on upside down and let the gravy (only gravy) to trickle out in to a spoon or a plate.
Give this to Gizzy.
You can also pour the gravy itself on his reg food.
Keep posting so someone experienced comes along.

 

ok

 

Do you have honey or Karo? You are really early in the cycle. I would do a bit of honey on the gums and retest in 15-20

 

53 was way too low a preshot number to shoot.

 

I have Karo. Should I have skipped it completely this morning?

 

You are back to 48 now?

 

Dry food takes a long time to act. Better to give just the "gravy" from hi-carb wet food (Press down on the food with the can lid and squeeze out the liquid gravy). You can also give him a little of your regular low-carb or medium-carb food and mix a few drops of Karo syrup in. Keep testing. The important thing is not to give him too much food at once so that you don't fill him up when you need him to eat. You want the carbs, and they are in the gravy.
These numbers are not hypo numbers, so stay calm. You can do this!

p.s. I see you just got the same advice from others.

p.p.s. I see on your spreadsheet that Gizzy was up to 61, fell a bit, but is now up to 48. Numbers can bobble around a bit, especially when you are giving syrup. Keep testing every half hour until he stays above 50 for several hours. Congrats on the reduction. (expect a bounce tomorrow!)

p.p.p.s Don't go overboard on the syrup!

 

Did you give him his insulin shot this morning after the AMPS of 53? I think I would have skipped the shot, but if you did then you have to watch him all day and possibly the next cycle , too. I would give some honey or corn syrup at this point, since it is early in the cycle. Has vet called? Any symptoms of hypo? (Don't panic, though. As long as you are monitoring, things will be fine.)
Not sure who to tag.
@Chris & China @Wendy&Neko

 

Hey Steph, how long since the last test?

 

Yes PLEASE KEEP TESTING and anytime Uncle is in the 40s especially early in the cycle I give him a drop or two of honey along with the HC food or gravy.
Karo will do as well.Let us know what his latest test is

 

I would have skipped.

 

Yes, would have been wise to skip this morning's shot, but what's done is done.
As said, don't panic, but do stay home and monitor frequently and carefully. Honey is a fast BG raiser. Try mixing it in his food, or rubbing it on his gums, or syringing it into him. Your choice depends on how well Gizzy responds to any of the afore mentioned options.

 

We can sort that all out later. Let's concentrate on getting Gizzy back up into good numbers for now

 

You are out of danger when you have 3 increasing numbers over 50 that are not food influenced.

 

I have an appointment and have to be away for about an hour, but you have enough eyes on Gizzy now. In the future, when you have an AMPS that is a lower number than you have ever shot. Stall and post for advice. OK?

 

I would have stalled for 20 minutes without food and see if he came up some since 50 is the cut off of no shooting. But, good thing you test as often as you do. Is Gizzy acting any different in these lower numbers?

 

We were at 48 10 minutes ago. Vet said a tiny bit of Karo. He looks completely normal. Ate some dry food happily 1/2 hour ago. I'm right here with him, not going anywhere, so he's safe. I'll keep testing. I gave him some gravy 10 minutes ago so I'll test again in a few and see where we're at. Thank you for being here!
P.S. I'm not panicking, but I am nervous.

 

Absolutely

 

You are doing great.

 

Yes you are doing very well, indeed. I think we've all erred similarly - Goodness knows I have, so no one here is pointing fingers, just trying to help.

 

Good to know you can stay with him as you know you'll want to monitor him until he can hold his own numbers at 50 and above without MC or HC food.
Yes, you are doing great AND I agree we are all doing our best and making huge lifestyle changes etc to help our kitties. It's really impossible to do everything perfectly. We are all constantly learning from and supporting each other here. LOVE IT!

 

Most of us will shoot anything over 50 if following TR so you did nothing wrong by shooting as long as you can monitor which are doing. Keep testing, use gravy and or honey/karo as needed. Since he went into the 30's it is an automatic reduction to 1.5u without question.

 

39. Giving Karo

 

Yep more karo. Come on up Gizzy.

 

54

 

Just keep testing and feeding as needed. Glad you can be home with him today! You are doing great!

 

remember that 54 is food/karo influenced so it could drop. test again in another 5-10 min

 

How long ago was the 54? You'll want to test again 30mins afterwards. Doing great so far!

Where are we now in the cycle? From posting times I'm guessing it's somewhere around +4, but the spreadsheet has tests out to +5.

[Note for later: you can "stack" numbers in the spreadsheet cells when you do multiple tests in an hour, but you can worry about that later once he's stably back in higher numbers]

 

We're at +5 right now. I'll adjust spreadsheet. We're back down to 40.

 

I'm doing 10 minutes right now.

 

OK, I'd do a bit more gravy and/or karo, retest in 20-30. You may have to keep steering for a little while, so don't fill him up.

 

Got it

 

Looks like you're getting lots of great help, so I'll just add this....Looks like Gizzy's racing down the dose ladder!!

Keep going, Gizzy....but there's no need for all the drama, OK?

Just an FYI....it doesn't do a lot of good to test more often than every 20-30.....it takes a little time for whatever you feed to get broken down and into the bloodstream.

HANG ON GIZZY!! I is on my way wif da water wings!! ~ China

 

I am glad lots of eyes are on you right now, got to go to a hair appointment. And I see China just arrived with the water wings!

 

Good to see you and China and her waterwings here! I'm going to have to leave to go to a meeting in 40mins or so, will you be around?

 

Eep, jinx post with @Bobbie And Bubba!

Guess we should do a general call-out to make sure there will be eyes for the next couple hours? I'm here for 40 but then gone for at least an hour.

 

Oh my China!!! You're very pretty wif your furs all wet!!
Ok on testing time, it just makes me feel better I'll cut back.

 

I'm around too.

 

We're at 46

 

LagoonMeister Rusty is on duty, cruising in the 50s. He's got his eye on you, Gizzy. Just get up a little bit higher now!

Yo Gizzy, Deputy China and I are both watching. Swim up to shallower water and surf!
~ LagoonMeister Rusty

 

Gosh, Gizzy, you sure do like teasing those sharks!

OK, a bit more gravy/karo. Wish that earlier dry food would kick in-- it ought to have some staying power once it does.

 

ok

 

I'm around too if it's any help.

 

Unfortunately, no.....I have to take my 87 year old mom to get her hair done....You know how old ladies are about their hair appointments!

 

You are doing an amazing job Steph! Gizzy is being really determined. We don't like them hanging out this long this low but he's not paying attention. As it gets later in the cycle it should be easier to get him up higher.

I'll be around for a bit.

 

No worries! Looks like the cavalry is already here.

I hate to duck out right now, though I'm very hopeful that he's about to make a move upwards, now that we're past +5.

Doing great!

 

Keep on keepin' on. We're watching. Hopefully Gizzy is close to nadir and will begin rising (cf. Wendy's and Nan's posts).

Ella and the LagoonMeister

 

Tanya, you're experienced.

 

29 minutes since that last 46. About time for the next test results?

And Steph, when you have a moment, could you change the subject line to reflect his latest numbers, so we know he's no longer at 40 (I hope). And take off the 911, as you have plenty of eyes on you now.

 

We're at 47. I'm going to do a bit more gravy. I understand that I shouldn't have shot this morning.

 

Yes, I'll update the the title. Thanks

 

well at least you were around to keep him safe, that's the important thing.

 

Thank you.

 

A couple more tsps gravy is a good idea. And test again in 30. If you really want him up, maybe add a drop of karo, honey, or syrup.

Experienced people will shoot a 53, I shot as low as 51. But Neko was on Levemir and shot time was often her nadir so I knew I had a long ways until onset.

 

You forgot to put Gizzy's name in the title!!!

Inch by inch he's getting up there. Keep on truckin', Gizzy! Nadirs are not at a fixed time, so keep vigilant. You are gathering good data today. Be sure to keep notes on what you gave him, when. It will be of help to you if you are in a similar situation in the future.

 

Steph, good work so far - HUGS!! Something to add to your 'I learned today...' - while hard food will raise the bg, it has to begin rehydrating before it raises it. You already know that it then keeps it high for quite some time. Karo and gravy/wet stuff normally begins that process almost immediately....

You got this! ...and lots of good eyes helping you too! I'll back out, sending another hug,

 

41, I gave a tiny bit of Karo again. I usually give him 1/4 can DM at +6 ( in 10 minutes) Should I do that?

 

How much extra food has he had already today? You don't want to fill him up.

 

Not sure you want to fill him up yet, I would give him a couple of drops of Karo and some HC gravy at least. See what others think...

 

If you normally feed him at +6, yes, I think you might give him something, but, as Wendy says, you don't want to fill him up. Maybe just a spoonful of his usual food, with a drop or two of Karo in it. How much food have you been giving today along with the Karo? Or are you giving the Karo "straight"?

 

Can you explain why he shouldn't have actual food as opposed to gravy/karo?

 

He can have a bit of actual food, it will help stabilize him. But not so much that you fill him up.

 

gravy raises the bg fast without filling him up. if the numbers continue to drop but he's not hungry it will be harder to get him to eat. if it's his normal eating time though, i'd say go ahead and feed him.

 

I gave him a couple tablespoons on high cal food at +3 when I discovered he was low, but since then just Karo and gravy

 

Got it. Thank you.

 

A quote from Marje who is helping another kitty who is low:

But don't give him too much regular food that you fill him up. Try to give enough so that in combination with everything else he's gotten today, it equals his normal amount of food.

 

I'm with everybody else since it's been 3 hours, if it were Uncle in this situation I would give some HC food with Karo

 

I agree. I didn't realize that you were giving the Karo "straight". Insulin needs some food to "work on". That quote that Wendy posted from Marje is a terrific illustration of how to proceed. I hope Gizzy will start coming up now that he's past the mid point of the cycle.

 

I need to go back through and read all the messages. I've been doing this between working on customers in my salon. I'll go back and make notes of everything I've done so I can see it more clearly. I gave him his 1/4 can of DM at +7.5. We're at 44 @ +8 so I'm giving a little gravy along with a tiny bit of high cal food.

 

What food are you using for the gravy?

Gizzy, seriously, time to come up!

 

HA! that's what I had to do too. I will be in and out, making dinner now.

 

Back as well, also on dinner-making duty for a while, but will be checking in regularly.

 

It's been another 1/2 hour. What food are you giving for gravy? I wonder if it's not high carb enough. Some cats aren't very carb sensitive and need a higher carb, such as something 20% or above.

 

I know Uncle isn't. His "HC" is only 21% and when he's in the 40's at the beginning of a cycle I know I have to bump it up right away by adding honey to try to slow his roll. MAYBE Gizzy is the same..?

 

How's the little guy doing?

 

It's as good a theory as any-- he's being remarkably stubborn!

 

I couldn't test him at the last half hour. He was extremely grumpy. I'm going to test in about ten minutes. I'm using 9 lives because that's what hubby bought. I now have some Friskies to try. Just climbing out of shower. Be back in a few minutes. Cross fingers I don't lose a finger!

 

FYI, I'm using dark Karo, would that work the same as regular?

 

I don't see why not. You can also use honey, maple syrup. Hoping he's high enough now that you can do any additional steering with food only, but keep it on hand.

Post the test as soon as you get it--- I'm a little worried about the grumpiness. Could just be irritation at getting poked so often, or he could be feeling out of sorts.

 

57!!! Woohoo! I think I think he's tired of being poked. Next???

 

Finally!!!! Still not super-high, but my goodness, it's what, +9 now? Or is it +10? I'm a little confused with the timestamps and the spreadsheet-- you posted two hours ago regarding a +8 test of 44, I think.

 

When numbers are climbing up and into the 50's I usually wait an hour before the next test. I'm not sure in this case if that is a good idea for Gizzy.
Maybe someone more "seasoned" can weigh in.

 

We're at +10. I know it's not a great number but it's better!

 

Should I do gravy or food?

 

So, it's been two hours since the last test/food/karo?

 

Not gravy, since he's in OK numbers now. Since it's already +10, maybe give him an actual meal, and test in an hour.

 

No, the last test and food were right at the end of +8. I could have put it in +9 I guess. So 1 hour ago.

 

Ok. Thank you

 

Guess I'm sleeping on the couch tonight.

 

Oh, maybe, maybe not! Eventually, he's going to come up, and maybe even bounce from this (though looking at his spreadsheet, he doesn't seem like the bounciest kitty in the world).

Tonight, assuming he's high enough to shoot, he's earned a reduction for sure!

 

Yay!!! What would you suggest as a cutoff for whether or not to shoot tonight?

 

I don't know about a definite cutoff, but I'd like to see him unambiguously rising. Greens are great, Gizzy, but you can explore around a bit and maybe go a little higher!

Let's see where he is at +11 and beyond.

 

That's a tough one. Given the way this cycle has gone (so far), I would be inclined to skip tonight's shot. Gizzy needs rest and so do you. Consider that the 1.75U dose will still be "in control", even if you reduce tonight to 1.5U.
We don't generally like to skip doses, but sometimes it is necessary to drain the depot.
On the other hand, if Gizzy zooms up into a bounce by PMPS, it is probably safe to shoot the new, reduced 1.5U dose. But you would still have to watch him carefully.
Let's see where he is at +11.5 and if you get any other opinions.

 

101!!!!! Headed for a bounce isn't he?

 

Finally!!!!

 

Yeah! Glad to see this.

ETA: I would be surprise if he didn't bounce seeing how long he hung in lower numbers today.