Buddy's Mom needs help part 10

I do not have the knowledge that some of the people have, anything I know I am glad to share. You ladies who work really have no time to give. I appreciate all the help I receive.

 

Hi Teresa,

I was away from my computer all evening and am just seeing the excitement now. I generally leave myself signed in to the forum all the time so I might show in the "who's on" section but I'm not really there. Sorry! However, you have other good helpers like Yong, Rachel and Djamila.

I think I said yesterday that Buddy's dose was getting close to "pay attention" territory and I was right. The feed, wait, shoot thing helped you again last night. I'm glad. It's scary but you'll get better at handling these situations. They're part of the process of getting Buddy's numbers down.

I hope you were able to get some sleep last night.

 

ABSOLUTELY

 

I kind of knew what to do, just needed the back up. This morning I gave Buddy a larger dose than I intended to. I got syringes at Wal-mart instead of ordering on line and they are just a little different than what I am used to. I intended to give him between 5.6u-5.8u, instead I gave him between 5.8u-6.0u. He has had larger doses, but both of us can do without the stress. No problems sleeping, just getting up in the middle of the night to check.

 

I hear you about the stress! Can you grab a +2 before you leave for church?

 

Which syringes do you order online, Teresa? The one's I found are nice but like $20 from ADW but have heard Walmart's are better priced and not much quality difference. But I'll need my own power source to light up the dim bulbs .

 

!!!!!!

 

I decided to stay home today, will have to be +3. Will get in a 1/2 hour.

 

The ones that I got from ADW were fine, just trying to save the shipping cost. The syringes from ADW were CAREPOINT VET, the lines do not look as bold from the Wal-mart syringes. I think the ones from Wal-mart were around $12 for a whole box.

 

Took a reading @+3 it was 225.

 

Nice, slow drop. Try for +5 and +7 to get a mini curve.

 

Sometimes the BG can continue on a slow downhill slide so that the PMPS is the lowest number. That can mean that the dose is a bit too high, a bounce is clearing or the insulin dose has extra duration that day. Sometimes a too high dose goes hand in hand with longer duration. So complicated ...

 

I have been gone, so I just took a reading and he is at 179. My Mother has feed him while I was gone, she feed him Royal Canin Wet. After I took a reading he was wanting to eat again, so I went ahead and feed him. He is allowed to have 1 1/2 cans of this per meal and he only had 1 this morning. This reading was at 8.25 hrs. Tomorrow I am taking Old Guy Back to the vet, I will try to get these readings as close as possible to +2 or +3, +5 & +7. Right now the biggest problem with this is to get him to stop eating long enough to take the readings.

 

When Buddy has low numbers, it is at AMPS or PMPS. Do you know anyone on the Lantus form who has a kitty with pancreatitis. I would like to ask them how they handle a kitty that will not eat at AMPS or PMPS, as far as a shot is concerned.

 

It's usually a case of hoping they'll eat a little because Lantus is slow in onset and a full meal isn't necessary. Some people have to syringe feed when their kitty stops eating all together. @Carol & Murphy has a hard time with her guy.

 

179 at +8.25 is a nice blue. It'll be interesting to see where he is at PMPS.

 

Do you think I should try to feed him, or wait till PMPS, which is not that much longer. My Mother is needing me again.

 

When is your PMPS?

 

I think you should wait until PMPS to see where he is.

 

I feed him earlier after I took a reading and that was at 8. 25 hr.and #175.

 

Are you wanting to know what time. Most of the time it is around 7:30 p.m., but this morning his AMPS was at 8:26 a.m. Last night his PMPS was at 9:33 p.m., because of feeding and then waiting 45 min., to give is shot. I am trying to work my way closer to his original time, I might start a little earlier than 8:26. I have 2 other cats that need to get their meds this evening and they are starting to run into each others time.

 

Hi - I just got the tag from Kris. I have a cat with IBD and pancreatitis issues and a totally lousy appetite much of the time. Is the problem that your cat isn't eating? When Murphy isn't eating at amps or pmps, I can read him pretty well at this point. things I take into consideration about what to do:
If his tail is not straight up - it is a bad sign for him
If his amps or pmps is low (low blue on human meter)
He won't even look at food or if he seems interested but just won't eat

What I usually do is give him (in addition to his cerenia) ondansteron and cyproheptadine immediately (anti-nausea and appy stimulant) - if his preshot number is high enough, I can have enough faith that the drugs will kick in within 60-90 minutes and he will eat evenutally - so I give him insulin
If his preshots are low, I'll give him the drugs but also give him so higher carb kibble (like DM) and he will usually eat a little in this case, I'll delay giving him the insulin until his sugar increases a bit

This may or may not be helpful - I may be able to be more specific with a bit more details on your situation

 

Thanks for replying, Carol.

 

Hi Teresa,

Carol has a lot of experience with a tricky kitty and other health issues. You could ask her for more info directly if you need to. Let her know your specific problems with Buddy.

 

Hello!! My cat Buddy currently uses ProZinc Insulin, I have been thinking of changing to Lantus. Buddy has a history of pancreatitis, in February he had partial pancreatectomy. (spelling) With Prozinc you do not have to be exactly or really close to 12 hrs. between AMPS & PMPS. How long do you or can delay giving insulin when having low preshot numbers.

Buddy has all the medications you are speaking of and I do use them from time to time. With ProZinc, I have always waited until his numbers were over 200 before I gave him his shot. At what number do you say this is too low and don't give a shot. Have you ever given a shot and then you could not get your kitty to eat. I appreciate you contacting me, for some reason I could not figure out how to handle this. Hopefully I will see you on the Lantus forum. Best wishes for you and your kitty.

 

Kris, That was so nice of you to have Carol contact me. In her post she covered about all I had concern about and that was how she handled a kitty that does not want to eat at shot time.

 

I forgot to tell you how beautiful your kitty is, he looks a lot like Buddy. Buddy is a true blonde.

 

Hi Teresa

Murphy is blushing
The strict 12 hour dosing for Levemir (and Lantus) was one of the reasons I delayed switching from Prozinc for as long as I did - in the end, I am glad I made the switch. They say you have a 30 minute leeway per 24 hr period to give the insulin - if you delay, it can act as a dose decrease, and if you move the dose up, it can act as a dose increase. If you really have to delay by several hours, that is what you have to do, but then you work back to your regular dosing time in 30 minute increments per day - does that make sense? Alternatively, some times you can just skip a dose (that is where having the depot can really help - you can skip a dose but they still have insulin in them) - then you just resume the next dose at your normal time or move it up a bit. So that is what I do. However, I have to say, that is one aspect of Prozinc I sorely miss - the flexible dosing

 

Buddy is @197 AMPS, coming down and I will be gone today. My Mother has waited 1 month to get in to see a orthopedic doc and today Buddy 's number's are lower. Hopefully, he will be alright this afternoon if I leave him a little food out.

 

I see this, Teresa. Great PS. You knew he could do this at this dose range. What dose are you thinking of giving?

 

I am not for sure I would like to get between 5.6& 5.8 if I could. I don't want to go to low on his insulin, but I will be gone this afternoon for several hours. The last several days he has been in the 300"s and I don't like that.

 

If you're home until mid cycle you could try 5.8 u and get a first test at +2. That will tell you if he's going to dive. You can steer with food then. By afternoon he should be at/past nadir so the pressure will be off. If that worries you, try 5.6 u but same plan for testing.

 

I gave him between 5.6U & 5.8U, or as close as I could get to it. I will be gone at nadir and Buddy seems to go really low at the end of a cycle, but he could go really low at nadir also. I will be testing before I leave and if necessary I will leave out some food.

 

We had a bad thunderstorm yesterday and lost power until around 11.m. I took my Mother to the doctor yesterday, while at the doc's we had a bad storm.

Yesterday, we had a very bad thunderstorm while I was at the doctor with my Mother. When we left at noon Buddy BG #258, when we came home at 4:15 p.m., he was at 99. Buddy was hungry so I gave him some LC wet food, I decided to check him in 45 min. to see what his numbers were, it was 94. I decided to keep checking every 45 min., next #106, #128, #133, at that time I decided to add a little HC wet food to his LC wet food. After about an hr., he came up to 219. We had l0st power while we were gone and it did not come back on until around 11.m. Since we had no power and not knowing when it would come back on, or if I could test Buddy later on I gave him 4U. Of course this morning he was at #357 and in 3hrs. he has come down to #245 . At least I can monitor him today. I need to update SS. This morning I gave him between 5.6 u & 5.8., if he is lower at PMPS I am going to give him 5.6U.




,

 

Wow! very nice numbers Buddy! Power outage was the answer all along?

 

This is exciting, Teresa! You're in Buddy's "action" dose range for sure.

 

You already knew the answer to this all along. Look out, we have another big thunder storm coming up very soon, wonder what will happen then.

 

Buddy's action dose range is too exciting for me.

 

Just keep at it, Teresa. You know how to deal with a lime green and the more you're exposed to blues and dark greens the less shocked and stressed you'll be.

 

I just got another blue PMPS #183. I am feeding then waiting 45 min., I think I am going to try 5.6 again. If I don't get something going with 5.6u, I can bump it up to 5.8u. next time.

 

This is progress, Teresa!

 

I am not one who would stand in the way of progress !

 

This is very exciting

 

Great news!

 

I just hope he can keep his numbers up tonight. Makes for a rough night time.

 

I changed my name from wolfey to Teresa & Buddy today.

 

Nice low yellow AMPS today, Teresa. Are you going to try eyeballing 5.7 u tomorrow?

 

Yes, I am. I thought I would give 5.6u a try again, but it did not do what I need it to do. The only thing is, Buddy will take a dive some times right at the last few hrs., so I have not given up on 5.6u yet.

 

I raised Buddy's dose to 5.8u at AMPS. Trying to get up enough nerve to e-mail his vet and ask for script for Lantus. If he would write script, how would I know what dose to start out with, because I sure would hate to go back to 1u. I think that would be hard on Buddy too. If he should start Lantus, does that mean he would need 24 hrs. before 1st dose to get ProZinc out of his system.

 

After you get the script, you should post over in the Lantus forum to ask for advice about the starting dose. From reading over there, it seems that they usually recommend something close to the current dose, so you wouldn't need to go all the way back to 1u. And you can just start on the next cycle since prozinc doesn't have much carry over between cycles.

One thing that was weird for me was remembering that you don't convert the syringes anymore. So instead of pulling to the 14 line, or whatever you're at right now, you would just draw to the actual 5.6 line.

 

Same here! Had to remember first line of 1 is actually 1.0U of Lantus .

Yes, Teresa, you wouldn't go all the way back to 1.0U to start off. I think Kris started 0.5U less than her current Prozinc dose and Steph started 0.2U less than her current Prozinc dose. And apparently, I dropped mine the least . Started on 0.15U less

 

I cut my dose in half! (that's kind of a joke since I went from 0.2 to 0.1 -- technically half, but there wasn't really anywhere else to go!)

 

Your dose is so small next to what Buddy takes, that is the main reason I need to change. The cost of everything is killing me and now Buddy will only eat Royal Canin. Guess I should not complain a lot of the cat food bought off the shelf cost more than his Royal Canin.

 

Alan Hamman
@Squalliesmom has purchased Lantus from Supply closet before. I will probably do that next time

 

That is great for Sam.

 

Here is the link to the Lantus forum:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-glargine-levemir-detemir.9/

I got my Lantus from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Canada:
https://rxcanada4less.com/

@Yong could help with the supply closet questions. I haven't tried that.

There is also apparently a card you can get to get the Lantus at a discount:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/lantus-savings-card-0-copay.180493/#post-2000118

That sounds like a better deal than anything else!

 

Oh right I need to sign up for that card!

 

I read some where that the pharmacy in Canada would not ship in hot weather, did not know if it would be possible to get from Canada this time of year.

 

I got mine 27 June and it was still warmer. You have to be home to sign for the package anyways so my Mum hung out with Maury that day and immediately put it in the refrigerator. You can opt to not sign for it but I didn't want to have it just sit outside for the hottest part of the day.

 

It sounds like if you get that discount card, you can just walk into any pharmacy here in the US and pick up the lantus for either free or very cheap. You might try that first since even ordering from Canada it's still expensive.

 

I just applied for and got the savings card. The info asked was are you over 65 (which I am) and are you on Medicare (which I am) I answered no to both of these. When asked for first name I put in Buddy, last name Wolfe. It asks for DOB, they must be over 18, so Buddy must be over 18. When I give them the script from Grove Veterinary Clinic, they will know this not for a human, will they honor the card.

 

Does anyone remember what thread was talking about the savings card from Lantus.

 

Here is the thread
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/lantus-savings-card-0-copay.180493/#post-2000118

I just learned about it a couple of days ago, so I haven't tried it. From reading the thread, it sounds like people have been using it for their cats, but I don't know for sure.

 

I have already applied for the card and got one. What I am asking about is where FDMB members are talking about using the card.

 

Hey Teresa,
If you click on that link in Djamilas message above(in blue) it'll take you to the thread where people discussed using the card. Looks like they have a good discussion about using the cats for a cat there!

 

Thank you.

 

He's still bouncing, Teresa. Keep a close eye on him at this dose. It's very near his breakthrough and there could be surprises. Just grit your teeth and be prepared.

 

His ears are probably sore, I have been checking his numbers more often. Do you have any suggestions for me.

 

A little bit of neosporin/polysporin/triple antibiotic ointment and some pressure applied after poking

 

I use all of that and I do that too. I am just a lousy poker. How do you like using Lantus, or do you think Lantus is good for Maury.

 

Yes, I have. Alan is very honest and his prices are very good, always a savings. I would not hesitate to buy insulin from him.

 

Drawing the dose was tricky in the beginning cos I had to repeat in my head "don't inject any back in" . I'm probably holding doses a little longer than I should but I am liking it. Actually had him trot after his toy during play time tonight . I think the gentler drops are nicer too.

You're probably not a lousy poker , I really think orange / buff kitties have thinner skin and may bruise easier. Like fair skinned humans.

 

I think it would be hard not to inject any back into the vial, every time I draw a dose for Buddy I think of that. That is a good thing that he is able to trot, that means Maury is well taken care of.

 

It is 2:08 a.m. and I am waiting to see if Buddy is going to keep on diving .
At PMPS he was at 263, within 3hrs he was at 96. I would like to go to bed. I am trying to give him food to keep him from getting too low.

 

Wow, Buddy! Teresa, you and Buddy had an exciting night! It doesn't look like you got much sleep, but that was a beautiful curve last night. It looks like you did an absolutely perfect job of steering him last night. I hope you are able to get in a good long nap today!

 

And for that we got a GREAT BIG BOUNCE !!

 

I agree!! That was a beautiful curve! We now know that 5.8 u is *around* the perfect dose at this point in time. It's nerve wracking but more exposure to this dose could have the effect of overcoming and residual insulin resistance. That could mean he'll need a lowered dose eventually.

Don't worry about the bounce. What's going on re Lantus?

 

I guess I should stay at 5.8u today. I e-mailed Buddy's vet yesterday, he is not in on Friday's. If I do not get a response from him today I will e-mail him again. He sell's me the ProZinc, so he may not want me to change.

 

Hi Teresa
I must say Buddy's spreadsheet is the closest I've seen to my Beenie's numbers. So awesome what happened last night. Beenie has been running flat and we're also trying to break through. She is at a high dose and I can't wait until we get a curve like this! Yay!!

 

Yes, do try the 5.8 u today. You don't have to test hourly. Start with a +2 and if it's not showing much movement, do a +4. If he's flat, give him a break until PMPS.

 

Do you think Beenie is insulin resistant, hope you have some luck soon!! How much does she weigh, Buddy is on the chubby side, last time he was on the scales he was at 13lbs.

 

I gave him 5.8u this morning, which is not so bad during the day.

 

This is very nice progress, Teresa! Do you notice if Buddy is feeling better with these numbers? How are you feeling?

 

I think so. Hopefully that's all it is or maybe she'll just be a high dose kitty. She weighs 8lbs. Could stand to gain a pound.

 

I was so sleepy last night that I never thought about how Buddy was feeling, I did notice he kept going to sleep and I couldn't. How did you handle Maury's numbers going a lot lower at night. I am feeling fine right now.

 

I wonder, if a kitty is insulin resistant if you change insulin would that make a difference. Has she ever been heavier, a lot of kitty's lose weight with the on set of diabetes.

 

We've only had about 5 PJ party's (anti jinxing) but most were clear by +5. I just hang out with him in between tests or hang on the forum . I experimented by steering with LC or MC foods. I wanted him to be safe but not send him into a big bounce.

 

I went to bed last night around 2:40 a.m. and then got back up around 4:30 a.m. to test. Went back to bed after test, then got back up at 7:00 a.m., to start over again.

 

I would consider a change of insulin but I think its too early in the game for me. I will give it more time and see what happens. Beenie did gain a lot of weight last year and was a whopping 13lbs. I had thought she was diabetic sometime last year and had bloodwork done but it showed regular BG levels. Then when she started to lose weight and starting drinking excessively etc I brought her back again months later and when bloodwork was done again she was over 500. I think the original bloodwork was either screwed up or she was pre-diabetic at the time. All that leads me to believe she was running very high for many months before the dx. Looking back she was suffering from the neuorpathy a while ago. At the time I didn't know. I thought it was her getting older and possible arthritis. I even was giving her joint supplements because she was clearly having a hard time walking, she no longer jumped on anything. Her hind legs would slip out from under her. Who knew?!?

So what I'm learning here is that if you run high for a long period, which I'm pretty sure Beenie was, would be a big factor in the resistance. Paws crossed we get there soon and see those healing blues and greens

 

Neuropathy was what made me take Maury in. Told my Mum it looks like he's ice skating across the floor BUT he's up on his hind toes again! He still prefers walking on the rugs I put down for him . Toe tufts still make hard floors slippery to walk on