Buddy's SS up and going 5th part about dosing

I created this thread for help on dosing Buddy.

 

Give 2.25 u again tonight and try 2.5 u tomorrow? However, if you're worried about giving that before leaving for church, wait until Monday AM.

 

Another thought on leaving is to do short excursions. Maybe take a short walk each day? I think just getting out of the house for even 10/15 minute a day is helpful. It'll help you feel more calm as you leave and come back and see that he is fine.

 

I will give 2.25 tonight. On 2/24/ PMPS #327, 2/25 AMPS #333 & PMPS #328, numbers being so close in the same range does that mean anything. I know I need to get into some stronger dosing, does anyone know how I can handle anxiety.

 

Breathe And remember you are not alone

 

That is a good idea,

That is a good idea. Thanks!!

 

That is sweet.

 

Great tips on leaving the house for short breaks, breathing, etc. Another thing to help with anxiety is telling yourself that you know what to do if his numbers go low and you've done it already.

 

Buddy's BG readings have all been around the same numbers, but I must admit I have been giving him a snack of FF classic every day. I guess that could have kept his numbers from going lower. Trying to get him used to FF classic again.

 

It looks like he needs a little boost in dose. Maybe try 2.5 u tomorrow?

 

If everything goes alright today and tomorrow's numbers are around the same I will give 2.5. Just wanted to mention about the FF classic snack (1/2can in morning 1/2 can in evening) to see if that would bring his numbers to the point he would not be going down much. I called purina at one time and I believe most cans of classis have less than 1% carbs.

 

The FF classics are good as low carb snacks.

 

Today I gave Buddy an extra can of RC wet food before I went to church, so he would not drop low while I was gone. When I came home I took his BG# 1st thing, this morning I gave him 2.25 u, the same as the last 3 mornings. The only difference is today I gave him 1 whole can of RC high carb wet food, and the other 2 days 1/2 can FF classic in the morning and 1/2 can FF classic in the evening. At 12:57 he was 95, he has not been this low in the last 2 days, plus I gave him 1 whole can of RC. When I got this reading I gave him 4tea.(I measured) of FF grilled with gravy, within 20 min. his BG was 121. I did this because, I did not want him to go low enough that his response would kick in and go really high, then start bouncing. So I do not know at this time about 2.50 units tomorrow, guess I will wait to see his numbers. I do not understand why he did not go down with the FF classic, but did with RC.
I do not understand why today and not the 2 days.

 

I should have said I gave the 1 can of RC, plus the 1 1/2 cans of RC he always eats and the same with the 1/2 cans of FF classic, he also got the 1 1/2 can of RC he has before each shot.

 

Well, he surprised you! I think he'd been bouncing for several days and it finally stopped. Stick with the 2.25 u. The green number was a very nice one, not too low. You could probably have left him alone - ie., no gravy food - but it's OK that you took action for your own piece of mind. If you look at your SS you can see that the greens he had at 2.5 u were lower. Sometimes you can keep the bouncing from happening by stopping them from going too low but not always. It doesn't really work with my kitty.

Here's what you could try:

• keep the 2.25 u dose for now to see what it can do while you're home to monitor
• feed him normally and don't try to intervene with fo0d unless he's going into very low numbers on your human meter - below 70?
• test between +3 and +7 to see what his BG does while the insulin is at maximum effect
• repeat for several days to see his pattern.

With a bouncy kitty base your dose more on how low he goes mid cycle and worry less about the highs at PS time. If several days of data with normal feeding show that he's usually high at PS but never goes much below 80 or so at nadir then that dose is good (for now). There might be some days of bouncing but try to ignore those. The goal is to see what he does on his own.

If you're worried about 2.25 u being too high, then try the whole experiment with 2 u. Give some thought to buying U100 syringes to use with a conversion chart so you can give doses between 2 u and 2.25 u. You need to see what happens when the dose doesn't change and the feeding routine is the same. Both of those affect BG and it's hard to make a plan because of too many factors going on. They need to be whittled down to just one - insulin dose.

What do you think of this idea?

 

Well look at Buddy! I know that was probably a bit scary, but focus on the fact that he was in good, safe numbers when you came home. Lower than we're used to, but still safe.

I really like Kris's plan as outlined above. Since you can monitor, it might help you to see how he reacts...and help you if you do go out again (to church next week perhaps?) to see whether he really is likely to go too low or not.

 

That sounds good to me, at PMPS he is @444, could be from food or bouncing. The next time he is in the low numbers but not 70, I will leave him alone. I appreciate your input, just now answering because I went to the store. Do you think it would cause BG to go high if I kept on feeding FF classic around 1/2 can in the morning & the same @night. My 95 yr.old Mother tried to babysit Buddy while I was gone.

 

Yes, I think it is a good plan. I am going to go by it. I feed him a lot so he would stay up, if I had not given that ex

I like it too, will go by it. I gave Buddy 1 extra can of RC so he would not go low, wonder what his # would have been without it.

 

The FF classics are low carb so feed then if you like.

 

Buddy not wanting to eat today, threw up last night, after eating too much yesterday ? Tomorrow I have an appointment, so I will be gone for a few hrs. If today goes alright, I will give 2.25u tomorrow, if not will give 2u, since I will be gone for a few hrs. If that happens, next day will start 2.25 again, or if 2u works better will stick with it for the rest of the week.

 

I think this happened a short time ago, didn't it? That tells you he needs smaller meals and maybe give them in snack form several times through the day. You'll have to try feeding normal amounts at regular times and see what he does with his BG. I think he's telling you that too much food upsets his tummy.

 

Glad you noticed Buddy, he is extremely handsome. His hair on his legs is coming back, his legs looked like a poodle that had been groomed.

 

Yes, that happened recently, but he did not throw up. Yesterday he had at least 1 extra can of RC, maybe more, FF grilled with gravy and some regular FF classic.
I do believe he ate too much yesterday.

 

That's what I think is going on. Maybe do the snack thing today and the regular meals when you have to go out. I know you don't want him to go too low but you need data on how he does with a normal amount of food given on a regular schedule. The goal is to see his performance at this insulin dose and the change in feeding clouds the picture.

 

Today Buddy acts like he doesn't like the RC and is not eating it very well. He will be getting the snack thing today because he was not eating very much and now he has to wait 2 hrs. so I can test. The normal thing for Buddy is to be starving, wanting more and crying for more. I have only been giving him the FF classic 1/2 can in the morning and at night, plus his 1 1/2 cans of RC at shot time. I only gave the extra FF classic on Friday & Saturday. Also he had extra on Sunday. Besides these 3 days he was given his normal amount of food on a regular schedule. When he 1st came home after surgery I gave him extra and sometimes when I was going to be out. The extra food is not on a normal basis. I gave the FF classic trying to get him used to a change in food. My hope is to change to FF classic, and to do this he needs to get his system used to FF classic, that is why I have been asking about him eating FF classic as a snack. Sometimes I try to hold back 1/2 can of RC till later in the day, so he isn't crying and following me around the house.

 

Also wanted to know if you have a link to another conversion chart for 100u, that shows amounts like .25, .50 or .75.

 

I am going to give Buddy something for nausea, he may have some pancreatitis going on. He has ate some, he acts like he wants to eat but just can't.

 

There's no conversion for giving 0.25, 0.50 or 0.75 fractions with U100 syringes. You have to switch your thinking to fractions of 0.2, 0.4, 0.6 0.8 that you can read using the lines on the U100s and fractions of 0.1, 0.3, 0.5, 0.7, 0.9 that you can eyeball between the lines. Between reading and eyeballing you have LOTS of dose fractions to use.

 

Probably better to get on it sooner than later. Do you have Cerenia? I think it helps both nausea and inflammation.

 

I gave him some Cerenia last night because he threw up and it is for vomiting, also it helps with inflammation. I gave him 1/4 of an Ondansetron pill @1:13 this afternoon. Seems Ondansetron starts helping his nausea sooner. Later I am going to give him some Cerenia & Pepcid. I took his BG @2:29 it had not moved very much. At AMPS +4 he was @188 and @AMPS +6 he was @181. Wonder if the medicine could raise his BG, also wondering about the RC since it contains pork. I am wondering about a cat with a history of pancreatitis and a partial pancreatomy should be eating this food. He is eating more, but not like his usual self. All of this may affect his numbers for a while.

 

His numbers look fine. What feeding schedule are you using today? I don't think those meds affect BG. Unless a cat has a sensitivity/allergy to pork there's no reason not to feed pork-containing food.

 

Today, Buddy is eating when ever I can get him to eat. Then I wait 2 hrs to test. Tonight if I can get him to eat all of his food at one time I will. I just thought his numbers might have went down more @+6. Do you or have you ever had a kitty with pancreatitis, you seem to know the meds used for pancreatitis.

 

Teasel has had bouts in the past of what might have been pancreatitis and was prescribed Cerenia. I've also learned a lot about it on here.

 

.Buddy's PMPS is 527, do you think I should stay with 2.25 tonight.

 

Yes, I think you should. You need to hold this dose and feed normally to see what it can do. Changing the dose according to PS can be a useful tool but it just complicates the picture right now.

 

That is what I thought, I have already gave him 2.25u. When I first see a low reading or a high reading I freeze, takes me a few minutes to get it back together. Hope Teasel does not have pancreatitis, it is a bad thing to have.

 

So far he's been free of pancreatitis for a long time. Crossing my fingers.

 

That is a good thing, to be free of pancreatitis. I gave Buddy some Cerenia & Pepcid this evening, he seems to be feeling better. Years ago they used to say you needed to watch your diet when you had pancreatitis, that you should not eat greasy foods, but I don't believe it made a difference. Tomorrow I have an appointment, hopefully Buddy's BG # will be good. Do you think the large number at PMPS was due to bouncing.

 

Yes. Most likely a bounce number.

 

This morning Buddy is at 291 and he is not wanting to eat. I have an appointment today so I am not sure about dosing. I have gave him 2 different nausea meds, maybe he will come around and eat.

 

Is he eating yet? What time is your appt? If he'd eat something, I'd think 2.25 or 2 if you felt uncomfortable with that. Basically...what time will you be home to be able to monitor?

 

If he eats something and you can monitor around nadir you can try 2.25 u. I wonder whether overfeeding him to ward off low numbers is upsetting his whole digestive system. He's prone to pancreatitis - I wonder if too much food can be a trigger? Just thinking "out loud". People with sensitive digestive systems have to be careful what they eat, how much and when. Maybe look at Buddy this way?

 

I will not be home @nadir to monitor. My appointment is with a doctor so you never know how long it will take. I have gave Buddy 2 different pills for nausea, Pepcid and a dose of Metacam. He is starting to eat some. I am a little leary about his insulin dose today. I do believe the over eating is what set this all in motion, that will not happen again. Do you still think I should stick with 2.25 dose.

 

Isn't Metacam the pain med you were worried about after his surgery? Maybe buprenorphine would be a better one to have on hand. It's a narcotic so some vets are reluctant to give it to people but you can ask.

If you can't be home at nadir to monitor, give him 2 u so you won't worry too much. You still have to experiment with feeding and dosing so you learn his patterns and can give a good dose even when you have to go out. I'm a big believer in consistency when treating an FD kitty.

 

I will not be home to monitor at nadir. I have gave him 2 different nausea meds, Pepcid and Metacam for pain. My doctor's office just called and left a message, she is sick and won't be in today!! I will be home. Thank you Jesus!!!!!!!!!

 

Buddy has not wanted to eat today, he is allowed 1 1/2 cans of RC twice a day, he did not eat that much this morning. Most days he is following me around wanting to eat, but not today. If he should want some thing to eat before PMPS, it will be a snack of FF classic. I am happy that my appointment for today was changed to another day, this time it is 10:30 a.m. I have always scheduled our appointments for afternoons, that is changing. Now all I need to do is figure out how I am going to manage the 3 appointment that we have next week. If I could get Buddy to only eat FF classic, wonder how much that would change his insulin dose. When he looks at his RC, he acts like he could throw up and walks away.

 

What are his preferred foods to eat? Do you have plain meat in broth baby food to try?

 

His preferred foods are FF grilled with gravy, RC wet, dry food. I have plain meat in baby food, but he is wanting to eat again. I gave him 1/2 can FF classic after AMPS +6, he ate it and wanted more. If he does not want his RC wet tonight, he can have FF classic (if he still feels like eating).

 

I'm glad he's willing to eat a bit. I'd keep the meals very small today.

 

He is more his self tonight, he has ate some. He has been cleaning his self a lot the last coupe of hrs. We are supposed to have bad storms tonight, if I am not on line tomorrow it will be because of storms.

 

Have you tried forti flora? My cats go nuts for it....they'll eat anything if I sprinkle that over it. Just a thought to get him eating on tough days.

 

No, that is probably a good idea. I believe Buddy is suffering from pancreatitis again.

 

Any numbers today? How is he doing?

 

He is much better, I think the Metacam helped him. I talked to his vet and he said he was not surprised that Buddy had not been eating because his numbers were so high. He is going to the doctor tomorrow to have his belly checked after surgery. At AMPS #269 (number goes down a little every day) +3 #338, going now to take +6, will post on SS.

 

What do you think about the dose Buddy is taking, I know his dose will need to be raised at some point. How or when do you decide to change a dose. Buddy has a stitch still in his belly that should not be there. The doctor said that could mean that something had fell down, he wants to check him out tomorrow, I hope he does not need another surgery.

 

The numbers in the middle of the cycle, provided they aren't high and flat from bouncing, will tell you if the dose needs to go up. You're aiming for low 100s or high double digits. Buddy's blues are high enough to indicate that a dose increase can be tried. The next step is 2.5 u. You had a green 59 on that a while ago so you would need to be able to monitor on the day you try 2.5 u again.

 

How did he do last evening, Teresa?

 

He did well yesterday, Buddy had 1 dose of Metacam (could have 2) and several times he had anti-nausea medicine. Today I started out to give him none of these meds, but he was not wanting to eat. When I saw he was not wanting to eat, I gave him an anti-nausea pill, then by 1/2 hr., he had ate all of his food. He is going to see the doctor today, because 1 of his stitches did not dissolve. His doctor did say that this stitch should not be there, so he wants to check his stomach. I hope everything is alright, it would be awful if he has to have surgery again. His numbers seemed to be running lower for a few days, then this morning at AMPS #377. One step forward and two back.

 

If it's a stitch that you can see on the outside it's probably a simple matter of snipping it to remove it. There are layers of sutures underneath the skin but they shouldn't be poking out.

That pink this AM might be from a lower blue he had overnight. Not to worry. Just keep on with what you're doing. Are you feeding him smaller meals?

 

It is a Stitch you can see, but it is a different color than stitches that were on the outside. The doctor said that something must have slipped down, it should not be there. He wants to check him out. I am not feeding him smaller meals, he is eating all of his food around shot time. I would like to get him eating FF classic all the time, tried this morning and he was having none of it. I am giving him FF classic as a snack.

 

What's the verdict on the stitch that you could see?

 

The doctor examined Buddy and took out the stitch. He did not go into any explanation, just that everything is fine, hoping since he got out all the fat around pancreatitis that it would stop the pancreatitis. Good for Buddy. Please check numbers on yesterday PMPS, I thought we had turned the corner with the numbers he had last night, until this morning. Buddy is not wanting to eat, he has ate some but not a lot. Wondering if it is because of his number this morning. How is your kitty doing on the Lantus, I have always had a soft spot for kittys with a dark nose. I think your boy has a dark nose.

 

Hi Teresa,
Good news about the stitch. The red this AM is a bounce off those lovely blues of last night. I think it was time to try 2.5 u and a bit of extra monitoring today is in order. If Buddy is eating a bit that's fine - small snacks are probably better for him anyway.

Yes, Teasel has a very cute dark grey nose. You can't tell in the photo too much but he's extremely spotty, almost like a checker board on one side and back of legs. He's a wonderful kitty, full of personality, as are his brother and sister.

 

I had gave Buddy his dose before I ever got on line (2.25) He does need the increase, however this week coming up is not the week for extra monitoring. A lot of appointments for my mother and myself. At one time I had a gray kitty for 19years, 1 side of his face was gray and the other was white. I guess he also was a tuxedo cat, with a very dark nose. His name was Tom, a lot of times Buddy is called Tom.

 

I had to take my Mother on some errands, when I came back I looked at Buddy's SS, I had put down for his dose as 2.5, but I only gave him 2.25. Maybe he should have been changed to 2.50. Trying to figure out when would be a good time for extra monitoring.

 

Leave the dose at 2.25 u until you have a day at home.

 

Would I not need more than 1 day at home to monitor.

 

For your own comfort, two consecutive days would be better. Two days - including the night cycles - should give a clear idea how the dose works.

 

I appreciate your reply, tomorrow I would be home, but from there on out most of next week appointments. I am optimistic about Buddy's dosing since he had lower numbers yesterday. Believe we are getting closer.

 

I am taking 1 of my other cats to the vet this morning, home later.

 

I am not for sure what is going on with Buddy, he is not eating as much as had been. This last week he is eating 1 can of Royal Canin at shot time, and I have been offering him FF classic instead of 1/2 can Royal Canin, also at shot time. Most of the time I think he would have ate anything, because he seemed so hungry. That is not happening now. I wonder if this could have anything to do with him over eating and getting sick last Sunday. He was at the vet 1 day this week, he said Buddy was not painful in the abdomen. This worries me, I hope nothing else is wrong.

 

How is his weight?

 

Is he showing any signs of feeling ill like lethargy, nausea, hiding, etc.?

 

Yes, since this all started he has lost weight. At one time he could eat as much Purina OM dry as he wanted and FF grilled with gravy. Now he has no dry food. Today he ate Friskies Poultry Platter Pate, I think that is 1 of the foods that can be eaten. He ate 1 can Royal Canin this morning and a small amount of FF classic. Hoping Friskies Pate is alright for him to eat. Buddy used to be pretty chubby, but that has changed.

 

No, he has been acting alright. He does not act lethargic, or that he has nausea, or hiding. He just does not want to eat like before, it seems like this started this week. In the morning he eats 1 can of Royal Canin, then he goes and lays down, or cleans his self up, or looks out the window. Just cat stuff. Today he ate Friskies Poultry Platter Pate, I hope that is 1 of the foods he can eat, because he has ate some. I am trying to wean him off Royal Canin, today he was more interested in Friskies than FF classic.

 

He can eat any of the Friskies or Fancy Feast pate versions (all low enough in carbs) so try a variety to see what he likes.

 

Today it seems like he is eating more of the Friskies Pate, I thought that was mentioned as being alright to eat. Hoping to get him off he Royal Canin soon. I had just been thinking Buddy had been diagnosed on 12/20/17 as having a polyp in his ear, he was given prednisone to take for the polyp. That is what got this show on the road, wonder if that could affect his appetite (the polyp).

 

Hopefully he was just bored with the food and liked the change to Friskies

 

I hope he was just bored and nothing is wrong.

 

Hopefully! I've heard over time a lot of cats lose their taste for the RC food too so it might be that...

 

Buddy loves the RC wet, I am trying to wean him off the RC. He ate friskies pate pretty good today, tonight his BG # are sky high, wonder if the friskies could have caused that. Are you back to work yet.

 

That red tonight could be a bounce from the green.

 

I'm actually back in class now....got a job with my company to be a programmer analyst, and they are paying to send me to school to learn even more coding!

 

That is Great !!!!!! You can never have too much education.

 

I think with Buddy's tendency to bounce you really have to focus on the middle cycle numbers to judge a dose. The PSs will almost always be on the high side because he zooms up at the end of most cycles. That's just his response to ProZinc. You've had some nice blue/green on this dose so it's working quite well.

 

I had Buddy at the vet last week and he said his numbers looked better. Hope they get even better. How is Teasel doing on the Lantus.

 

Teasel is doing quite a bit better on Lantus - still bouncy and makes up his own rules but I get long stretches of good numbers and he feels better because the fluctuations in his BG aren't as extreme.

 

Do I need to limit the amount of Friskies pate or FF classic. He has a limit of 1 1/2 cans of RC wet per shot and nothing else, if that is what he eats.

 

Is it your vet that has recommended this feeding schedule? My vet recommended twice a day feeding for Teasel too but I said that wasn't what he was used to and I'd rather continue with a mid day meal. I've recently added a before bed small meal too. Many people on FDMB feed multiple small meals a day and some use auto feeders to feed while they're out or overnight.

If Buddy needs to gain back some weight, feed him more as small meals more often. Do you track his weight?

 

The vet I saw at 1st with Buddy's diabetes wanted him to eat RC wet no more than 1 1/2 cans @AMPS & PMPS. This was because of carb count, he was to have 2 meals a day. I have been giving him snacks lately. What I was wondering is there a certain amount of food he should have or a cut off amount of FF classic or Friskies pate. Buddy was rather chubby before this all started, all of my cats are. I don't believe his weight is a problem, I do not track his weight. When this all started he weighed 12 lbs, I can tell from looking he does not now. He is probably better off with the weight he is now.

 

If you like his weight now, take his proper daily ration (3 cans?) of Friskies or equivalent in Fancy Feast (6 small cans?) and split it into several small meals - breakfast, lunch, supper, bedtime, for example. I think the total carb count with Fr and FF is less than the RC.

 

Glad that Teasel is doing and feeling better. The main thing is for our Kittys to be feeling better. I know Buddy is better than he started out. Don't know if I will ever get familiar with ProZinc.

 

I think you will over time. Prozinc is tough to become accustomed to since it doesn't have a if this, shoot this protocol like the Ls.

 

Do you know if ProZinc is good until the expiration date on the bottle, or if it is so many days from the date you opened the bottle.

 

You have to go by when you opened the bottle. I was able to get over 2 months out of mine.

 

I saw the green from last night. It's a good green so I suggest you keep the dose again this AM.

 

He was @ 468 at 8:19 a.m., I got up at 1:55 to check his BG. He started out at #77 and got down to #67, got back up too high with the help of FF grilled with gravy. I got up at 1:55, did not get back to bed until 3:45. I would not have been as concerned if it had been during day hours, but I could not go back to bed and leave him to go lower.

 

If your schedule today permits, you could try 2.25 u again. however, those greens will likely have left him more insulin sensitive so you could dial it back to a fat 2 u.