Camii, understanding the numbers

Coming to this group as a new member, here is some back story on my baby:

Working at a local pet store back in 2004, we fostered and provided homes for kittens. That one day in Sept 04 I fell in love with this big eared white w/ tabby stripe blotches, Camii was named and came home with me that night.

Shes been a wonderful loving lap kitty, was diagnosed with kidney stones, heart murmur and UTI, 8 years ago, food had to be adjusted and she gained a lot of weight. 1 year ago i feared kidney failure, but I was relieved it was FD, manageable, best of all, telling my 4 year old Camii was able to come home with us.

Fast forward to today, just started home testing, SS is new but going to get her numbers documented and better regulated.

Thank you all so far for the great information!!

 

I am glad you decided to home test. 5 units is a huge dose, and 244 is not a high starting number. Any chance you can do a curve on her? At least try to get a +4-5 number. I would caution you giving so much on such a low preshot number, esp with a fast action insulin like N. How did she wind up on such a high dose? It's double what most cats take.

 

That would be the vet giving that dose, working on a curve today, going to check every +2, just did another test, updated the SS.

 

Going to be honest... I don't think your vet is good at dosing. Raising the dose a whole unit is dangerous... Dosing 5 units at a low preshot may cause hypoglycemia. Do you have honey to steer the numbers up if she falls too low? 136 with several hours to go on this dose is a little scary.

 

I do have honey, do members use karo syrup? Used to treat hypo puppies with karo as well, will keep monitoring, just tested at BG at 60! Going to give some honey now

 

Either works. Even pancake syrup.

 

Yes. Give some honey and a small portion of higher carb food.

 

Test again in 20 min. You want to make sure that number doesn't go below 50

 

Karo wears off quickly so you may need to give more.... So don't feed too much where your cat will fill up and not eat. He's still got about 3 hours of dropping to do so you'll have to be vigilant.

 

I'll stay online if you need support. If it drops too low is there an emergency clinic or open vet near you?

 

When you get a chance read/print this info on hypoglycemia

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

 

@Sienne and Gabby (GA)

 

She took some karo and ate some dry food, tetsting again in 15 minutes

 

Test time

 

@Kris & Teasel @Lisa and Smoky

 

BG dropped to 34, just checked again, up to 48 now

 

Im going to the store, what are some good treats to help raise BG

 

Feed more Karo and high carb food. Gravy food if you have it This may be too much to handle at home. Please retest every 15 min.

 

Do not leave her now. 34 is way too low, and 48 is also too low. Please give more karo. You can add a few drops to a tsp of wet food, but don't feed too much at once.

 

Reapply Karo every 10 min or so

 

Im sending my wife, I'll stay with her here and check again

 

How fast are you from a vet? They can get him on a glucose drip

 

Tell her to get ff gravy lovers

 

OK, good. If I'm reading the spreadsheet, looks like you are around +4 now after 5U of Novalin N? We're hitting (typical) peak action of that insulin about now and for the next couple of hours. The goal is to keep her numbers above 50. We'll use karo and/or gravy from the fancy feast when she's lower than that, testing every 15-20 minutes. Once she starts getting above 50, don't feed but keep testing to see if she can maintain the numbers on her own.

And, as Janet says, locate the closest ER vet-- we should be able to handle this at home with food, but if she starts showing symptoms of hypo do not hesitate, it's time to go. Let's hope it doesn't get to that point.

 

Not far but not going back to my vet, i have plenty of syrup, karo, maple, and honey, i will make sure she gets it until wife gets back with higher carb foods

 

Oh my! This is a very high dose. I have to leave in 20 minutes. I hope Janet can stay to help you. It would be safest to get your kitty to a vet.

 

Yes, almost to +5 at 12:45est

 

Once the crisis is past the good people here can advise you on how to restart your girl on a safe dose.

 

General principles to keep in mind when "carbing up" a cat in low numbers:

1. don't give too much food at once-- you may need to keep her eating for a while so you want her a little hungry, plus there's a risk of "scarf and barf" if you give a lot of rich food at once.

2. karo/honey/syrup is the fastest acting, but you want to be careful in using that alone because it can cause stomach upset. Dry food/treats are often high-carb, but take a while to take effect. In terms of staying power, it works in reverse-- karo fades fast, but dry food sticks around longer. A good option is gravy from a "gravy lovers" type cat-food-- lots of carbs, most cats find it tasty.

3. if numbers are very low or the cat doesn't want to eat, rubbing honey on the gums is another way to get a quick boost to the BG numbers

Hang in there, you're doing great!

 

I'll be here.

 

Temptations treats raise the bg pretty quickly

 

Next test value?

 

please test again, and when you can, update the spreadsheet

 

Ok, at 54 for +5

 

and that's with honey and feeding right? Still could drop for another hour. what we want to see are three numbers in a row rising without having to be fed food or honey. 54 is still too low to risk not feeding. I would give a bit of regular food, no honey at this point and see what the number is in 15-20 min. if it's over 65 then we can try not feeding and test again in 20 and see if it continues to go up......... If it goes up, GOOD. if it goes down, give more food again.

Man, I'm really glad you decided to start testing today. without interventions this could have had an unhappy ending.

 

Making her and my daughter lunch, got some FF gravy lovers, will see again after eating

 

Glad you replied Janet, I was wavering between food/no food on this number-- I agree that it's too close for comfort, given all the honey that's been given and given how large a dose it was this morning. Better safe than sorry.

 

exactly.... If he had said 65 I'd say ok lets hold off and see what happens, but if he doesn't test for 20 with no food or honey and it's back in the 40's that wouldn't be good.

 

great.... don't give her the whole can... we don't want to OVER correct and send her numbers to the moon either. Give her a spoonful of the gravy lovers... and if she wants some of her regular low carb food do that.

 

One slight adjustment-- I think you can wait a bit longer, 30 minutes, to test on this round. Hopefully soon we'll be able to give her ears a longer break!

 

Alright, we are at BG of 58 as of now

 

At this point we are at about 6 hours after shot, right? This should be about nadir (lowest point) in the cycle. Ok, don't feed anything else right now and let's see what it is in 20-30 min. Hopefully we will see the number rise on it's own.

 

You've done a wonderful job today keeping Camii safe.

 

don't forget to add that 34 to your spreadsheet.... You could also add in the comment section of your spreadsheet the interventions you did --- giving karo and high carb gravy foods. Otherwise that dose looks like it took her low, but it doesn't really show how low it was and that it was actually in hypo range. Thanks to your testing and constant attention to her you kept her safe. well done.

 

You did great, Camii's parents . Glad you started home testing today like the others have stated. I hope you guys switch Vets. I would not give 5.0U tonight. I have to wonder how low she went last night, considering that +2 was about the same as today. Hopefully, she is past nadir and will start rising on her own now

 

Great job today! Like Yong, I was wondering how low she may have gone last night. So glad you've started testing, and yes I'd be looking for a new vet too...

 

please, before you shoot tonight, post the preshot number. the dose needs to be drastically reduced.

 

I agree.

 

Thank you all, she's done really good with all this poking and sticking. As of now @ +9 BG IS 199. I will do a PMPS around 7:30est and take suggestions on new dosage.

 

Sounds good. Remember to not feed for at least 2 hours prior to preshot testing. Her ears can have a break until then.

 

@JanetNJ Ok, her PMPS BG is 330

 

I wouldn't do more than 2 units...do 2 for a few days and take some mid cycle readings of you can.

 

@Kris & Teasel what do you think

 

When you say mid cycle, so 6 hours after shot?

 

I agree with trying 2 units for a few cycles. It *should* be low enough to keep her out of lime green. You'll know in a cycle or two whether it has to increase.

 

Yes. Actually, anywhere between +4 and +7 should be OK for Novolin.

 

Thank you all very much, giving 2u now, I can TRY to test again around midnight, im exhausted from keeping up with my daughter today around the house, if anything I can definitely test around 11pm.

 

get the 11 pm reading and see how it is... If it's not too low than you can sleep easy. Tomorrow again if it's over 250 let's do the 2 units... If it's under 250 we may recommend 1-1.5 Will you be around tomorrow to get some mid cycle numbers?

 

Got it, yes, I'll be around tomorrow for sure.

 

And dude.... I hear ya. I have a 4 year old and he never slows down. Plus we are up at 5 am. Most nights I don't make it passed 10. Lol

 

I'm so glad to hear she's doing better. That vet was crazy to suggest such a high dose with that insulin. I was relieved to hear that you were getting help from some experienced members. I'm sorry I didn't see your posts earlier in the day. How is Cammii doing now?

 

She seems good so far, just tired of me sticking her I'm sure.

Along with the FD, antihistamine being given as well for her skin allergies(against the docs suggestion not crushing the tablet in her food) shes eating it all, much easier than forcing with pill dispenser. I've dealt with animals long enough to know, was in retail local pet stores, not chains, for 10 years.

 

At +3, her BG is 189

 

That's perfect.... Not to high or low.... It would have dropped to a nice low blue by +6.


Interested to see how today goes.

 

Can you post your amps?

 

Yep, just tested, AMPS are 269

 

Not bad at all! Let's see what 2 u does through this cycle.

 

That's great. Do the 2 units but make sure to get a few mid cycle numbers. Test at 3 or 4 and again at +5 to make sure it's not heading low again. If it is then next time we will suggest going to 1.5 units. You're really doing great with the home testing! I know it's sometimes hard to do that first week.

 

Camo, let's talk food for a minute. What is Camii eating? How often do you feed?

 

Glad she's on the fancy feast. Can I suggest for the dry that you leave out you make it something diabetic friendly so if she gets into it it won't cause a problem? Both the purina indoor formula and kitten chow are over 30% carb which is like giving a diabetic person a donut. Lol. There are a few dry options that are OK.

My favorite is Young Again Zero carb food which you can get at Youngagainpetfood.com. It is only 1% carb. They will send you a free sample if you ask. I credit this food with being instrumental in getting my cat into remission.

Another is Evo Cat and Kitten in the purple bag at 8%, although some say they recently changed their formula and are now 12%

A new one that just came out that I ordered and am waiting to arrive is Dr Elsley's clean protein at 4-5%. My cat liked the sample they sent. You can get that only on their site right now.


I feed fancy feast classic morning and evening and leave the young again zero and Evo out for all of my cats to graze on.

 

I would love to go back to evo, its just so expensive for cats, I'll look into the others

 

It is pricy... I order it from jet.com which seems to be the best deal. Young Again is pricy too but lasts a Long time. An 8 lb bag can last a single cat 3 months. I have several eating it and an 8 lb bag lasts 3 1/2 weeks. I bought the 25 lb bag in Jan and still have a bit left.

 

BG is 225 @ +6

 

I like your 2.5 on that preshot tonight

 

Thanks, just from comparing from yesterday with the 5u, and today with the 2, will see how 2.5 does

 

BG was @ 391 this morning +11/AMPS

 

Ok

 

So, just a little update, been a few days, i think I have Camii on a pretty good track, im on 3u now, and the PS are reading lower. So at this point, i need to get some day readings, was hard this week, very busy at work, what sort of levels should i be looking for, since the vet wouldn't tell me

 

Yes, you need some mid cycle numbers. A commonly stated guideline here for good numbers is pre shot BG in the low to mid 200s and midcycle (nadir) BG in the low 100s to high double digits.

 

Glad to hear your kitty is doing better!
i just started switching yesterday from Young Again Zero to EVO purple bag ( carbs are listed on the bag as 12%) my sugar cat stopped eating it and one of my other cats kept puking it up .. i have 7 cats and the YA 8 lb bag was only lasting me 10 days but found on Chewy.com the cost of a 15 lb bag of EVO was cheaper then the YA 8lb bag especially with signing up for auto ship and the first auto ship purchase gets another discount, price is like 51 and change and with auto ship its 48 and change but with the additional first time auto ship discount i paid 38 and change, i ordered it friday morning before work and it arrived yesterday morning by fedex.

 

Thank you to everyone on this feed. I just had a scare with very similar numbers with Fang tonight and this helped tremendously. THANK YOU ALL! I'm aware it was a while ago but for my search tonight we are grateful.

 

Should you need to create your own emergency thread in a similar situation, will be helpful to have your Signature setup and a Spreadsheet ready so we can jump right in . Feel free to start your own thread for your Fang on the insulin specific forum . Have a read at this too http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/