Can I give gravy?

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Teenuh, Jan 19, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Gracie just ate a little more. BS was 39. Leaving right now, but I'll be home in about 8ish hours.

    I have a gravy food. It's Friskies. Can I give her a little of that when I get home tonight if BS is below 70? I'm guessing you guys will say no, but I wanted to ask.

    I was going to see if this could cause her to eat a little more.

    Seeing such low numbers seems odd. I know it could be worse, but . . . I'd rather see them in the 70's.

    PS: Vet said she isn't very worried--unless I see green or yellow discharge/mucus.

    @Djamila @Critter Mom @Kris & Teasel @Rachel
     
  2. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    39 is too low. You don't want your cat below 50. Yes, give gravy food as soon as possible.
     
  3. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    How long ago was the shot
     
  4. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    @JanetNJ She isn’t getting any insulin. This is a natural 39, not caused by insulin.
     
    Critter Mom and Teenuh like this.
  5. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I think I'd stay away from higher carb food. Right now Gracie is a diet controlled diabetic who might naturally run low. It's more likely that whatever the other issue is makes her feel unwell and not low BGs.
     
  6. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    I would actually say yes, but only a little. I would put out her regular food, and then put maybe a tablespoon at the most of the higher carb food on top, then kind of squish it into the lower carb food so it's the taste/smell she gets, but she can't just lick it off and leave the rest. Does that make any sense at all? So she's mostly getting the low carb food, but with some enticement to eat on the top.

    And only until she is eating on her own again. And of course keep an eye on her BG to make sure she can handle it okay for a meal or two.
     
  7. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Oops. That doesn't happen very often! Usually when Kris and I post at the same time we have said virtually the same thing!!!
     
    Vader723, Teenuh and Kris & Teasel like this.
  8. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Djamila makes a good point. :)
     
  9. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I wasn't factoring in Gracie's poorer appetite, Djamila. Here's where ground up low carb treats sprinkled on top of the food could help.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
    Critter Mom and Djamila like this.
  10. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    I just worry when a kitty doesn't want to eat. Maybe I'm being too much of a softy?
     
    Kris & Teasel likes this.
  11. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Ah! Low carb treats on top are an even better option!
     
  12. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Ah ok then no worries. :)
     
    Djamila likes this.
  13. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    I can totally understand wanting to get off a quick response to that! A 39 after insulin could be a scary situation! :nailbiting:
     
    Critter Mom, Teenuh and Kris & Teasel like this.
  14. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Yep some crushed up treats on top of the food might help! Also, forti flora or tuna water maybe?
     
  15. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Yes, that makes sense. I'll do it a little tonight when I get home UNLESS

    And of course if she is above 200 and gets insulin I'm guessing not to give a little of the gravy type food.

    If the food is gone when I get home or mostly gone should I hold off on adding it?
     
  16. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    I need to find a good low carb treat that she likes.
     
  17. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Have you tried freeze dried meat or fish like the Pure Bites brand? Orijen also makes a line of freeze dried meat treats that come in 4 or 5 flavour mixes.
     
    Teenuh likes this.
  18. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Definitely don't add the carbs if she's eating. That is only a desperate measure when a cat has really gone off their food. Low carb treats or tuna water are much better suggestions. My mama-heart was clouding my reasoning - there are better ways to get a cat to eat, so definitely exhaust all of those first.
     
    Critter Mom and Teenuh like this.
  19. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    I haven't yet. Where do you get those?
    Earlier, when I was home- I was looking at the food @Djamila suggested SEVERALLLLLLL messages ago. I'm on my work computer now, so I don''t have it bookmarked. It was the one where you just add your choice of meat.


    Side note: Is it better to cook he meat, or give it to them raw? Technically speaking . . . in the wild it would be raw. :confused:
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  20. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Pure Bites is available in chain pet food stores like Pet Smart. The Orijen treats are usually in the smaller "health food" pet stores.
     
    Teenuh likes this.
  21. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    I might buy both and try them out. After all our felines can be persnickety!!!
     
  22. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    foodfurlife.com - you can cook the meat of your choice or give it raw, but raw is better (although there are still many arguments about that). it's just a powder with all of the supplements that are needed to make it a complete diet. You add a little water, a little powder, and the meat. Voila! Dinner! They do have some very particular instructions about how to introduce it so your kitty will eat it. It's not always easy to transition from commercial foods to raw foods. Although some cats take to it right away. They will also send you a little trial packet for like a dollar so you can see if she'll even taste it.
     
    Teenuh and Kris & Teasel like this.
  23. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Yes, that was it!
    I went to go order a free sample and it took me to PayPal which is fine, but then the sample stuff wasn't coming up. I'll try again tomorrow morning. I gave up and went to Amazon and ordered a rice cooker and more tupperware.
     
    Kris & Teasel and Critter Mom like this.
  24. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    LOL! Yes, it does take you to paypal. I think there are directions on the Foodfurlife website about what to do once on paypal. It did take a little over a week to get my sample. I'm so impatient these days....:rolleyes:
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  25. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    I'd like to blame my ADD for wondering off to Amazon, but I was impatient.

    I'll do it tomorrow morning as I sip my coffee. ;)

    A week?!? Amazon Prime spoils me. 2 days.

    Did Same take to it well? Or did he need some adjusting.
     
    Djamila likes this.
  26. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    He took to it well at first, but then he kind of stalled out. So he's at about 50% now, and then still eating a variety of other things for the other 50%. I could probably push him harder, but I don't really mind running the kitty restaurant. I have put some limits on it now though - they only get two choices per meal now. One is the homemade raw and the other is whatever else I put down. :)
     
    Rachel, Kris & Teasel and Teenuh like this.
  27. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Look at all of these errors I made. Same instead of Sam. There are several others that I found in older posts. This goes to show how well I proof read now that I have finished all of my English courses. :D


    LOL. A kitty restaurant. My kitchen looks like a kitty clinic right now.

    Do you feed them both together? At one point I had two cats. I imagine it would be difficult if they were on separate diets.

    Is one of them more greedy with food?
     
  28. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Veni. Vidi. Visa.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Rachel, Djamila and Kris & Teasel like this.
  29. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    I put out the food twice/day - and the timed feeder puts out a couple of extra snacks at key moments in Sam's insulin cycle. Sam is super food motivated and can get a little greedy. Atticus is attention motivated and doesn't even come running for treats. Sam knows how to tell time and is always waiting in the food places at meal and snack times. Atticus wanders out to find food a couple of hours later. So while I feed them the same foods, it isn't ever a competition. They have very different natural patterns. It's one of the benefits to having two grazers. There is always food available, and I break up the meals into several bowls in a few different places so they don't need to compete with each other in any way. Oh, except for the freeze-dried salmon treats. Those are a rare and treasured thing and they will kill each other to get to them first. So I do have to be careful about managing those. I usually only use them for big things though - like when I have to pill Sam, or when one of them is refusing to come back inside (they wander the hallways occasionally - I'm always with them, but sometimes they don't want to come back home).

    Oh, and here are some treat options:


    Bonito flakes – these are sold in some grocery stores as a human food. They are tissue-paper thin bits of fish and are easy to sprinkle on food to get a kitty to eat. They last forever and are the cheapest option.

    https://www.amazon.com/Kaneso-Tokuyou-Hanakatsuo-Bonito-Flakes/dp/B0052BGLMS/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1516455184&sr=8-3&keywords=bonito flakes

    This is marketed as a probiotic, but from everything I’ve read it doesn’t work well for that. What it does work well for is getting a cat to eat. You open a little packet, sprinkle a little on top of the food – kind of like how we salt our food. Each packet lasts several days, and there are 30packets in a box. I often say that Sam would eat a shoe if I sprinkled this one top, and lots of cats feel the same way. It should be noted though that Atticus doesn’t go for it. It doesn’t deter him, but it also doesn’t entice him.

    https://www.amazon.com/Purina-Forti...TF8&qid=1516455209&sr=8-2&keywords=fortiflora

    The next two are expensive, but they are good quality and they are more what you would consider a typical treat – something your kitty can actually bite into:

    https://www.amazon.com/CATMANDOO-Freeze-Dried-Wild-Salmon/dp/B005FFHLUM/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1516455237&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=freeze dried salmon cat treat

    https://www.amazon.com/CATMANDOO-Dried-Chicken-Pet-Treat/dp/B00II6TGV2/ref=sr_1_6?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1516455268&sr=1-6&keywords=freeze dried chicken cat treat

    These are probably my personal favorites as they look like what they are. Sometime a little too much so though in the case of the chicken hearts. It is an actual dried heart. I usually have to cut them into a couple of pieces since they are a little bit big and hard for the cats to bite into on their own. They also have little minnows that are the whole fish. And a variety of other options. Often the dog treats are a bit cheaper, and since it’s a whole, dried protein, it doesn’t make any difference if you buy the cat or the dog versions.

    https://www.amazon.com/Essentials-F...05&sr=1-4&keywords=vital essential cat treats
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
    Teenuh and Critter Mom like this.
  30. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Djamila, you are feeding my Amazon addiction.
     
    Critter Mom and Djamila like this.
  31. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Ordered the sample successfully.
     
    Djamila likes this.
  32. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    How's Gracie doing today? Any improvement in the sneezing, eating, or energy?
     
  33. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Hey! We have matching BG numbers today! Sam's required 2.4u of insulin to get there, but still :D
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  34. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Energy is still very low. She just isn't herself. Didn't wake me up like she normally does early in the morning when I'm home at night. She did walk with me to the kitchen to prep my coffee. She let me test her BS. Ate some cardboard took a couple bites then took off for my bed.

    I'm torn on what to do. BS was still "low".

    Normally you see high BS with cats. Is it possible she is low when sick?

    IMG_9257 2.JPG
     
  35. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    But at least he got there!! Way to go Sam.
     
  36. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Definitely possible. It is more normal to see high numbers then, but some cats might go low when sick...ECID.
     
  37. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    ECID :bookworm:
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  38. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
  39. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Yes. Hypoglycaemia in non-diabetic cats can be a sign of an underlying health problem, one of which is infection.

    Current unusual clinical signs from this and your other threads:

    * Appetite variable to poor - mostly needs prompting to eat, or eats a little then walks away. (Mogs: Maybe nauseated - possible GI/pancreas issue? Maybe unable to smell food properly - possible respiratory tract issue?)
    * Marked lethargy. (Mogs: Usually associated with underlying health issue.)
    * Reduced sociability / withdrawal behaviour. (Mogs: Usually associated with underlying health issue.)
    * Pica - eating cardboard. (Mogs: This can be a sign of underlying health issue/dental problems.)
    * Sneezing. (Mogs: Possible respiratory tract issue or allergy?)
    * Pawing at nose/face. (Mogs: Possible respiratory tract or dental issue?)
    * "BS is hanging out in the 40's ish. Then It'll pick to 60-70 after she eats." (Mogs: Not on insulin so maybe possible problem with release of stored sugars between meals?)

    If it was my cat, I'd want to get her into the vets for physical exam, dental check, blood work (including thyroid check and Spec fPL), etc. as soon as possible. I'd also remove all cardboard from her environment.

    Further reading:

    Pica in cats

    Hypoglycaemia in cats
    (wagwalking.com)

    Hypoglycaemia in cats (Cat-world)

    Hypoglycaemia in non-diabetic cats (The Nest)

    Can you have hypoglycaemia without having diabetes? (NB: General background info based on hypoglycaemia in humans.)

    From the last link in the list:

    If you don’t have diabetes, hypoglycemia can happen if your body can’t stabilize your blood sugar levels. It can also happen after meals if your body produces too much insulin.

    [...]

    Hypoglycemia is either reactive or non-reactive. Each type has different causes:

    Reactive hypoglycemia

    Reactive hypoglycemia occurs within a few hours after a meal. An overproduction of insulin causes reactive hypoglycemia. Having reactive hypoglycemia may mean that you’re at risk for developing diabetes.

    Non-reactive hypoglycemia

    Non-reactive hypoglycemia isn't necessarily related to meals and may be due to an underlying disease. Causes of non-reactive, or fasting, hypoglycemia can include:

    • some medications, like those used in adults and children with kidney failure
    • excess amounts of alcohol, which can stop your liver from producing glucose
    • any disorder that affects the liver, heart, or kidneys
    • some eating disorders, such as anorexia
    • pregnancy

    Although it's rare, a tumor of the pancreas can cause the body to make too much insulin or an insulin-like substance, resulting in hypoglycemia. Hormone deficiencies can also cause hypoglycemia because hormones control glucose levels.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  40. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    It's just odd to me that one day at the vet she was in the 400's then over the next week she started coming down to more "stable" numbers. This could be to her dose adjustment too.

    Who knows. There could be a zillion different little things going on. It just sucks that they can't communicate like we can. We can be specific when we go to the doctor--and describe where the pain is; however, with our felines we have to rely on body language and behavior.

    I called the vet and they suggested I call back at 2:3o for a possible 3/3:30 appointment.
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  41. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Did the vet run a urine test and fructosamine test as part of the diagnostic work-up at time of Gracie's initial diagnosis of diabetes? And did she have any other health issues going on at the time?


    Mogs
    .
     
  42. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Fructosamine test yes. Urine--unsure. I could call to ask.

    Do you want to numbers?

    She lost a bunch of weight, but that was linked to diabetes. She has since put me weight and maintained it.

    Nothing else health wise. I was just taking her in for a yearly appointment. Blood panel was recommended. I believe it was called a senior panel.
     
  43. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    The fructosamine is the key test for confirming any provisional FD diagnosis.

    The pecking order is:

    1. High BG detected in blood spot check. (Could be influenced by travel/vet stress so only a pointer, not a sound basis for diagnosis of FD.)

    2. Urine glucose check. (Unless cat has spent many hours travelling to the vet and has been stressed out of its tiny little mind, a positive urine glucose test shows that the cat's renal threshold has been exceeded in the hours since it last had a pee, and this is a stronger pointer to possible FD than a BG spot-check. Obviously the higher the urine glucose level, the greater the probability that diabetes is the problem.)

    3. Fructosamine test. (Average BG over last 1-3 weeks; needed to confirm provisional diabetes Dx. Result is assessed in BG banded ranges indicative of how good/poor glucose regulation has been during this period.)

    ETA:

    Feline Diabetes - IDEXX Diagnostics Flowchart

    (Useful one to bookmark.)

    Do no harm to have a look. :)


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  44. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Blood Glucose test was 391.

    I called to ask about glucose urine and she said it was marked as high.

    Fructosamine was 405
     
  45. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    From MSD's UK Caninsulin website:

    Fructosamine Reference Ranges for Cats (micromol/L)

    190-365 - Normal non-diabetic cat
    350-730 - Newly diagnosed diabetic cat

    Treated diabetic cats:

    350-400 - Excellent control
    400-450 - Good control
    450-500 - Fair control
    > 500 - Poor control

    Not that far above the upper limit of the reference range for normal, non-diabetic cats.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  46. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Hmmm. It's definitely giving me something to think about.

    I opting for no vet today. I was feeling a little sick earlier--I went to lay down and take a nap and she got right next to me. We took a a little nap together. She ate a little bit ago. She didn't eat it all, but rather grazed. She's back to laying down.

    I think I'll make an appointment for Monday an cancel if she seems better.
     
  47. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Do you have her senior panel results? If you put them into the third tab on your spreadsheet, there are some folks around here who can take a look and see if anything stands out.

    I'm so sorry she's still not feeling well! Sending healing vines your way!
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  48. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    I don't. I did call my vet today to request them prior to closing about 30 minutes ago. I'm picking up Monday morning.
     
    Rachel and Djamila like this.
  49. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Sorry about the ECID thing! I shoulf have explained...:oops:
     
  50. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    It's OK. It just took a little google
     
  51. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    My vet was bought out by a chain, and they have a few different chains in my area that are 24hrs. I was hoping I could call and pickup the records earlier, but apparently labs are not shared. Not very smart in my opinion.

    Bummer.
     
  52. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    How not shared? With the client?


    Mogs
    .
     
  53. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    No, it's shared with the client. I can't pickup until Monday though.

    My vet was bought out by "VCA". There are a bunch of VCA clinics here in the greater Sacramento area. I was hoping that the labs and files/notes would be able to be accessed from any VCA location and I could pickup and post earlier. I called and found out that they are not, and I will need to wait until Monday.

    In my opinion--that is a poor practice choice. I would want the vet to see all of the notes and labs without relying on my memory.

    Sorry if I confused you @Critter Mom
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  54. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2016
    :confused: I saw the minnows, lol. Bet the kitties love them thougb!
     
    Djamila likes this.
  55. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014

    You saw the whole of the moon.


    (I'll get me coat ...)


    Mogs
    .
     
    Djamila likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page