Canadain Feline needs urgent help.

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Justin, Mar 4, 2018.

  1. Justin

    Justin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Hi all, I posted in introduction forum and was well received :)

    I will try and keep this as to the point as I can. I need help, my feline buddy was diagnosed just over a year ago and we were put on lantus. I switched his food from a dry food to fancy feast wet Pate(Canada)

    He has since lost a lot of weight, at first I thought that was good, on a recent visit to the vet for an unrelated matter the vet told me I need to control his food/insulin better as he will not survive as skin and bones :( Agreed maybe I am not doing it right...

    Which brings me here, I need desperate help here.

    My feline has not been eating right the last few days, he tends to leave the food and just pick at it sometimes, I keep throwing it out and giving him new hoping it would intice him. Yesterday I went and got friskies pate and he did eat one can. He is not eating enough food and even when he was he was loosing weight. I fear I am messing up with his insulin or something else at play.

    He was eating 4 small cans of fancy feast Pate a day. We were giving him 3 units of lantus one daily. I do have a home human blood checker that we haven't used in awhile. The confusion of when to test and what numbers we need escapes me. I feel as though he needs more insulin but if he is not eating could I not do more harm than good here?

    He is 15yrs old, he is getting less mobile, is not eating enough. Lantus is given everyday once only. I do not want to give him insulin blinding and need some good advice.

    If you need to know more about any part of this please ask so we can work together and save my feline friend.

    For the vets part.... they diagnosed him, gave me a paper about it, severly overcharged me for lantus and sent me on my way. I feel as though if I did everything on the paper he would no longer be here already.

    Time is of no importance to us, I work full time however my wife is currently off on leave. She has all the time this may require to get him better.

    Thank you all for reading and I hope to hear something from you. Perhaps we can start at the beginning and pretend I am new. We do know how to give insulin and how to check blood, that alone is not enough :(
     
  2. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Here are some basics for new people like yourself:
    .................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


    It would help us if you set up your signature (light grey text under a post). Here's how:
    • click on your name in the upper right corner of this page
    • click on "signature" in the men that drops down
    • type the following in the box that opens: kitty's name/age/date of diabetes diagnosis/insulin you're using /glucose meter you're using/what he eats/any other meds or health issues he has.
    Another thing that will help us help you now that you've started BG testing at home is to set up a spreadsheet like the one we use here. We can all see it and will look at it before offering any dosing advice: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
    .................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

    Here's the basic testing routine we recommend:
    1. test every day AM and PM before feeding and injecting (no food at least 2 hours before) to see if the planned dose is safe
    2. test at least once near mid cycle or at bedtime daily to see how low the BG goes
    3. do extra tests on days off to fill in the response picture
    4. if indicated by consistently high numbers on your SS, increase the dose by no more than 0.25 u at a time so you don't accidentally go right past a good dose
    5. post here for advice whenever you're confused or unsure of what to do.
    .................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

    Here's an explanation of what we call "bouncing". It explains why a kitty's BG can go from low to sky high:
    1. BG goes low OR lower than usual OR drops too quickly.
    2. Kitty's body panics and thinks there's danger (OMG! My BG is too low!).
    3. Complex physiologic processes take glycogen stored in the liver (I think of it as "bounce fuel"), convert it to glucose and dump it into the bloodstream to counteract the perceived dangerously low BG.
    4. These processes go into overdrive in kitties who are bounce prone and keep the BG propped up varying lengths of time (AKA bouncing).
    5. Bounce prone kitty repeats this until his body learns that healthy low numbers are safe. Some kitties are slow learners.
    6. Too high a dose of insulin can keep them bouncing over and over until the " bounce fuel" runs out and they crash - ie., have a hypo episode. That's why we worry so much about kitties that have had too high a starting dose prescribed by the vet and the owner isn't home testing.
    .................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

    Here are some tips on how to do urine ketone testing (VERY important of BG is high and kitty isn't eating well!):
    • put the end of the test strip right in his urine stream as he's peeing
    • slip a shallow, long handled spoon under his backside to catch a little pee - you don't need much
    • put a double layer of plastic wrap over his favourite part of the litter box and poke some depressions in it too catch pee.
    Most test strips have to be dipped and allowed to develop for 15 seconds before viewing the colour change in very good light.

    Ask any/all questions you have here on this forum. :)
     
  3. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    Thank you for that, I will follow along and do everything you said. I have already updated signature

    The spreadsheet looks confusing to me, I did want to start one myself but this one looks hard to follow. I do not know what most of it means
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
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  4. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
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  5. Justin

    Justin Member

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  6. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    No need to change your meter. It was bought in Canada so it reads out in Canadian units of mmol/L. Choose the spreadsheet template for world units. That's what we use in Canada. The US measures BG in different units (mg/dL) and the numbers will be higher when you look at US spreadsheet. If you set up the world unit spreadsheet (SS) and enter your mmol/L numbers it automatically converts them so they show up in US units on the US version of the SS. There's a tab at the bottom of the SS you click on to see the US version. Very clever!
     
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  7. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Re meters: a human meter will read lower than a pet meter like the AlphaTrak2 that many vets want us to use. The test strips for those are very expensive though. Human meter strips, although still expensive in Canada, are about half the cost or a bit less. You'll use quite a few if you want to get your kitty doing better.

    It's important to know that the "take action" BG on a human meter is 50. That means the BG is dropping too low (not hypo just too low) and you need to feed a low carb snack to prop it up.
     
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  8. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    As soon as I can find him I am going to test him. He has not eaten in hours, hasent touched food set out for him in last while :(
     
  9. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    He has been tested at 22.9 mmol/L and hasent eaten that I know of in hours...

    Should I give him a shot even without food?

    this is the confusion here, my wife says not to give him lantus unless he ate... but in my mind he is high already and needs it.
     
  10. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Should I give him a shot even without food?[/QUOTE]

    Sorry - just seeing this now. He needs insulin. I suggest you drop his dose to 2 u and inject now. Offer small amounts of food frequently over the next two hours or so. It takes about that long to reach Lantus' onset. If he refuses cat food, try tuna, sardines, salmon, plain chicken or even plain meat human baby food (that has no seasonings, etc.)
     
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  11. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    Sorry - just seeing this now. He needs insulin. I suggest you drop his dose to 2 u and inject now. Offer small amounts of food frequently over the next two hours or so. It takes about that long to reach Lantus' onset. If he refuses cat food, try tuna, sardines, salmon, plain chicken or even plain meat human baby food (that has no seasonings, etc.)[/QUOTE]

    Consider it done, thank you, will update spreadsheet :)
     
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  12. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    It's important that you test his BG at +2 (ie., 2 hours after this shot in SS language). That can show you if a big drop might happen this cycle (cycle = the 12 hours after a shot). If the +2 is significantly lower than the recent pre shot of 22.9 you have to be ready to test more often to track his BG as he gets to nadir (nadir = point of maximum action of insulin dose where BG will be lowest).
     
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  13. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Lantus is meant to be dosed twice a day! You were giving 3 units once a day. Your vet has steered you wrong with dosing. If you go to the Lantus forum, at the top are yellow stickies about the insulin. There are also two explanations of possible protocols you can follow. Tight Regulation, and Start Low Go Slow. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-glargine-levemir-detemir.9/ Please read through them. If you follow one of these protocols I think it will take some of the guesswork out of what you should do next. i'm glad you have a meter and know how to use it. Get in the habbit of using it DAILY. It is your number one best tool to keep your cat safe, get him healthy, and find a dose that works for him.
     
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  14. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Consider it done, thank you, will update spreadsheet :)[/QUOTE]
    good job getting that spreadsheet and signature set up so quickly! You just took your first major step in the right direction! Glad you found this site. :)
     
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  15. Justin

    Justin Member

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    I am ready to do what it takes to get this sorted out for him!
     
  16. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Hey good advice thank you! I have no issues with testing a lot, its an expense but he is worth every penny :)
     
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  17. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Good insulin and good food for diabetic cats. Friskies pates are fine too - just not the indoor cat types with the green lid. It's best to avoid all kibble. Good treats to give around testing/injecting are freeze dried meat treats. Pure Bites and Orijen are two brands. Pure Bites are available in Pet Smart stores. Canadian Tire has a similar type called Pure Snacks. I've used both. Orijen brand is generally sold in health food/holistic pet stores.
     
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  18. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    and we are here to help you every step of the way! :D well done. ((high five))
     
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  19. Justin

    Justin Member

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    good job getting that spreadsheet and signature set up so quickly! You just took your first major step in the right direction! Glad you found this site. :)[/QUOTE]

    I am SO glad I found this forum, so far you have exceeded my expectations :)
     
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  20. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    We'll get you there! :smuggrin:
     
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  21. Justin

    Justin Member

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    I am setting up a tablet dedicated to this venture, this way my wife and I can use it to update spreadsheet without added distractions. I just so happen to have a tablet I dont use here so I am doing that all now. It is another tool I will keep with the Glucose meter. Thank you all again for helping me out, what a great group you have here :) I hope one day I too can help people on here once I get a hang of this
     
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  22. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Pay very close attention to his food intake. If needed, coax him with other foods. Worst case, puree some canned food with a little water and syringe feed him. You need syringes 20 mL plus with no needle and a large opening. Try a human pharmacy. Not enough food and high BG increases the risk of ketone development. They can become very ill and treatment is $$$$.

    Unregulated diabetic cats are always hungry unless they're feeling ill. Feed as much low carb wet food as he wants in several small meals a day. Just take food away two hours before every pre injection BG test. Lantus MUST be injected twice a day in cats. They metabolize insulin quickly and one injection won't control BG for 24 hours. We can help you get that working.

    It could be arthritis or he might be suffering from diabetic neuropathy. Is he walking low near his heels on his back legs? That's a sign of neuropathy. Good BG control will help and you can also give a vitamin B12 supplement. Human pharmacies carry that in pill form. You want about 1000 mcg of the methylcobalamin version of B12 in a pill that has no added sugars. These dissolve easily in warm water and you can mix it right into wet food because they're tasteless.

    Here's a very useful bit of info: you can buy Lantus over the counter in human pharmacies in Ontario. Not sure about the rest of Canada but you can ask at a pharmacy. It's a lot cheaper than what your vet will charge. If you can go this route, but a 5 pack of Lantus pen cartridges (don't bother with the whole pen). Each cartridge is 3 mL so that's a total of 15 mL of insulin for about the price of a 10 mL vial if purchased in a human pharmacy (about $100-$125 in Ontario). You'll use up a 3 mL cartridge long before it loses it's oomph. The 5 pack will last properly stored in your fridge until the pack's expiry date, usually 2 years or so down the line.
     
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  23. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    Yes for example the vet charged $230 plus taxes for a vial of lantus... I got the same vial (after my wife broke ours from vet) at costco for $62.00 NO TAX. Same vial! Insane!
     
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  24. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    The 10 mL vial contains 1000 units of Lantus. If you've been giving 3 u a day that's 333 days of doses or almost a year. Problem is, by 6 months that Lantus is probably not potent enough any longer. I'm sure Costco pharmacy carries the 5 pack of cartridges - much better way to go. That begs the question: how old is your current Lantus vial?
     
  25. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    They do sell the 5 pack as well, was more money bu thats fine if its better? How do you extract the insulin from the cartridge? Current vial is 3 months old
     
  26. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    When you look at the cartridge you'll see that there's a little grey rubber seal on one end. You put the needle through that. You don't inject any air into the cartridge like you would with the vial. As you withdraw insulin doses there's a rubber plunger device inside the cartridge that moves slowly toward the rubber seal end over time.

    And, yes, the cartridge pack is definitely better value. You'll probably have to discard your vial well before its finished and that's wasted money. If you keep using it past about the 6 month mark you'll start to see it losing its BG lowering effect or else you'll see little snowflake like "floaters" in it.
     
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  27. Justin

    Justin Member

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    I am going to check him again its been a couple hours since shot. Does it matter when I check him? by the way he has eaten, not as much as normal but he did get some into him :)
     
  28. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    For insulin extraction from pens, I do the same thing for Leo's levemir pens. As Kris said, it is better to not inject any air. I have been using the pens for over a year now. Pretty handy and they have a cap to keep the top clean.
     
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  29. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Good time for a test. Post the number here when you get it.
     
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  30. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    We can buy cartridges without the pen case here in Canada, Jeff. I keep the little plastic cover each cartridge is in and put it back in after use, then into a snack baggie to keep it clean.
     
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  31. Justin

    Justin Member

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    20.6
     
  32. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    This could be a good day for a 12 hour curve. Basically you test every 2 hours (6 tests). Food is provided after each test, then put away after eating. So it looks like:
    - AMPS test, then food
    - +2hrs test, then food
    etc
    - PMPS test, then food, then look at results

    It wouldn't be a perfect curve today. But you could start at the 4 hour mark.
     
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  33. Justin

    Justin Member

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    I'll do it. Will that help me determine what next shot should be at tonight?
     
  34. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Yes. It will also show how effective the current dosing is. This will help us advise on future dose changes.
     
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  35. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Optimal dosing will give medium AMPS and PMPS values, then nadirs in the 80-140 range.
     
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  36. Justin

    Justin Member

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    cool, I hope someone can advise me when the time comes this eve :) I will test him every 2 hrs as stated, I will update his spreadsheet as we go, I just set up the tablet for this purpose :)
     
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  37. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    You’re on it! :smuggrin:
     
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  38. Justin

    Justin Member

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    I can't thank you enough, I really needed this push to get my buddy back in shape. I feel so bad for him
     
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  39. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    As they say, when you know better you do better. :)
     
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  40. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Checked again, 17.2 now. Will check again in 2hrs
     
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  41. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    You’re getting really useful data today. :)
     
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  42. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Also you might be setting a 4 month record for newbies. I don't think anyone started a spreadsheet and did a 12 hour curve on their first day ....in the last few months:woot:
     
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  43. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I agree!! There should be a medal or at least a certificate for someone getting up to speed so fast! :D
     
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  44. Justin

    Justin Member

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    15.2 at +6 after shot
     
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  45. Justin

    Justin Member

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    I'm a stubborn man .. This helps me sometimes in reaching a goal... Him being better is my goal. To be honest its you guys that need a medal :)
     
  46. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Doing well so far today! :) Stubborn is good - you sure can't give up in this feline diabetes marathon. ;)

    Looking ahead: Finish up your curve today because it's giving us really good information about how he's responding to this dose of Lantus. You'll give him 2 units again tonight as close to 12 hours after the AM shot as you can manage. Take all food away from him in the two hours prior to the pre shot test. You want to know his pre shot BG without the food influence that can raise it.
     
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  47. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Let's see a photo of your boy in your avatar box when you have time. :)
     
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  48. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Yes will do the curve finish properly. After that then what? Do i feed him and leave it for him to eat when hes hungry or stay up all night to keep an eye on things? Thats another source of confusion to me. We typically dont fee during night but will if he needs it. He normally gets a can before we go to bed and then another in am.

    Also yes I will get a picture asap for my avatar
     
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  49. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    The last test before your preshot test will be at +10 (SS speak). Take all food away then. At +12 do your pre shot test, feed him his supper and give him 2 units again. He doesn't have to eat all his dinner - even a tablespoon or so is enough if he's a slow eater. Lantus is slow in onset so he doesn't need a lot of food on board. He can finish the rest of his dinner after his PM shot.

    Try to get a before bed test this evening just to see how he's doing. You can leave a bit of food out overnight or not. I don't feed my guy at night either. If you leave any out you have to know that he'll have eaten all of it by the 2 hours before his AM pre shot test. In the AM it's the usual routine:
    • pre shot test (no food 2 hours before)
    • breakfast (at least some of it)
    • insulin injection.
    Is he usually a good eater? That will help you enormously. As far as insulin dose in the days ahead, I'll suggest staying at 2 u for a few days while you get the new testing routine up and running. We need more data to see how he does on this dose before changing it. No need for a curve again tomorrow, just follow the basic testing routine I gave you earlier today.
     
  50. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    It's great to see Gooey! Love those tabbies! :smuggrin:
     
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  51. Beth 73

    Beth 73 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Justin . Just wanted to let you know you are in the BEST of hands here on FDMB . Kris was my primary help with Elmo and I am convinced he would not be alive if not for her wisdom and advice . She is Elmo’s Fairy God Mother for sure :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug: Btw, you are doing awesome ... keep at it one step at a time . :):bighug::):bighug::)
     
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  52. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Gee thanks, Beth! :D
     
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  53. Beth 73

    Beth 73 Well-Known Member

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    All truth, Kris, all truth :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  54. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the group, I’m new as well and these people are amazing and will help you in any way they can, I trust these fine folks and they know their stuff and if they don’t the will lead you to someone who does know, amazing group of people, so welcome:bighug:
     
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  55. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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    As well as Bellas
     
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  56. Justin

    Justin Member

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    He is 13.8 +8hrs from shot.

    Thanks as well beth and Bella for making me comfortable
     
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  57. Justin

    Justin Member

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    He is normally a good eater, today has been trying, inticing him etc but he is eating so thats a plus
     
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  58. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    And my Smokey. I couldn’t have done it without her!
     
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  59. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! - but I'm only one of many helpers here. It takes a village ... ;)
     
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  60. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Nice yellow!
     
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  61. Justin

    Justin Member

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    I take it yellow is good yes?
     
  62. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    It's good relative to where his BG began this morning. It shows us he's responding to the Lantus nicely. His BG range has to come down a little but you don't want to rush that while you're getting onto a new system of testing and dosing. Tonight will be the first time he gets a second dose in 24 hours, right?
     
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  63. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Right, this is his first time getting 2 in 24hrs. Can't say he's never before but we were generally doing 1 dose in 24hrs for a long time. We never switched to 2 doses properly till now he's ready for another test now I'll put the number here in few mins
     
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  64. Justin

    Justin Member

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    13.3 at +10 ...
     
  65. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Yellow is good. Blue is better. You are targeting 80-150 or so for the nadir.

    I'm very careful. And Leo doesn't nadir very well. So I just try to get him in the 150 range for his midpoint. Also some cats like Leo are different. Leo usually has his lowest reading at the 9 or 10 hour mark. But that's why you are doing the 12 hour test, so we can see what is going on.

    I forecast a dosage increase in your future. Also...nice picture of your kitteh.
    .
     
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  66. Justin

    Justin Member

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    I'm suspecting 3 a dose every 12hrs but I won't rush there, we see how he does
     
  67. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    No, don't rush. The way we do it is is a progression from 2.25 u to 2.5 u to 2.75 u to 3 u. I hope your syringes have half unit marks on them. It'll make eyeballing the quarter unit fractions easier.
     
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  68. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Yes they have the half unit marking
     
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  69. Beth 73

    Beth 73 Well-Known Member

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    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  70. Beth 73

    Beth 73 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 2, 2016
    Sorry, Justin, for our hijacking your thread but it’s just how we feel about Kris and how we know what an awesome help she will continue to be for you ... you can trust her to help as tho Gooey was her own . Testimonial finished, Kris;):bighug::cat:
     
  71. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    Naw its all good, in fact comforting to know Kris has good rep around here, I feel I am in good hands :)
     
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  72. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    It's looking like Gooey might also be in the - late nadir club. Or it could just be a variation today. Like I said with Leo, he rarely has his low BG at +6hrs, and is usually much later. The good thing is that we are see a nice BG drop in response to the insulin.
     
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  73. Justin

    Justin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    13.4 at +12hrs pmps time to dose, we still think 2 units is good?
     
  74. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Yes. Think of this as starting over so no quick changes in dose.
     
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  75. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    Thank you for sticking with this. I gave him 2 units at pmps time. Will test again in am. Have gnite
     
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  76. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
  77. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Jul 24, 2017
    Hi @Justin! I just noticed your last comment saying he was at 6 for AMPS and that was almost an hour ago. Did you give the insulin?
     
  78. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    No because I don't want him to go too low, need to know what to do now :(. I'm scared
     
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  79. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Jul 24, 2017
    @Justin Check his BG again now to see what he's at and let us know.
     
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  80. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    7.3
     
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  81. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Jul 24, 2017
    Did Gooey eat between the 6 and 7.3 readings? Just curious if the rise is from food.

    6 isn't too low to give insulin. It can be scary at first that's for sure but if you're home to monitor him it's ok. Do you have high carb food on hand & corn syrup in case it's needed if he goes low? For high carb food I keep Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers on hand as well as Wellness Signature Selects (they are higher carb than the FF Gravy Lovers).

    It sounds like you were only giving insulin once per day which was bad advice as others have said. Lantus needs to be given every 12 hours. That could explain why Gooey was not feeling well & not eating well (maybe).
     
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  82. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    Yes he has eaten, although very little
     
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  83. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Jul 24, 2017
    Ok. Did you decide if you're following the Start Low Go Slow method or Tight Regulation protocol?

    If Start Low Go Slow the don't shoot number is a bit higher than Tight Regulation (for beginners until you get more comfortable).
     
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  84. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Jul 24, 2017
  85. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Jul 24, 2017
    @Justin Since you're new and the SLGS method says not to shoot if the number is below 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L) than it's ok that you didn't give the shot. You can get back on schedule tonight at shot time (assuming his PMPS reading warrants it). In the meantime you can decide which method you want to follow, SLGS or TR.
     
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  86. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    Yes very new lol

    I'll not give him shot and check him later
     
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  87. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Jul 24, 2017
    Sounds good :) If you haven't already, maybe you can go out today & get your Hypo Toolkit stocked up with the high carb foods & corn syrup. The corn syrup I bought is Crown Lily White Corn Syrup. I did try honey & maple syrup as well but Merry gets a bigger spike from Corn Syrup so that's what I use now.

    I'm in Ontario too, near Belleville.
     
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  88. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    Good idea, thank you. Hamilton,ON here
     
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  89. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 18, 2016
    Hello and lurking from the Kawarthas. You've done a most excellent job this weekend (and have had excellent help). It does get easier as you become more familiar.
     
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  90. Justin

    Justin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Yeah a little confusing at this point, he seems to be very late coming out of insulin after 12hrs. Not sure where to go from here but we get there!
     
  91. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    Hello, lurking from Alberta.

    You did great yesterday and so did Gooey! That 6 is quite a surprise! That is a great number!

    If he has been going from low numbers to high numbers, I wonder if he is feeling a little nauseated. This should calm down once his numbers are normalized a bit.
     
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  92. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    Now he is 17.1 perhaps I need to insulin him. Any advice? He is due for shot in 4hrs
     
  93. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Feb 8, 2018
    You have to remember your next shot will need to be 12 hours from when you give insulin. If you can’t give it on a every 12 hour schedule from now but 4 hours from now is the time you can always give it, I would wait. Best to stick to schedule.
     
  94. Justin

    Justin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Normally yes but he didn't get insulin when he was supposed to because he was way too low to give any. This confuses me. Do I give now and adjust schedule? Or do I wait to when 12hrs passes from when he was supposed to get it?
     
  95. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Unless changing the schedule isn't an issue, I would just wait until his normal shot time.
     
  96. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I've been out today and missed all the excitement. Here's my take on it and some suggestions:
    • he's been getting 3 u once a day and you had no data to show you what it did to his BG
    • yesterday he had a total of 4 u in 24 hours and you tested his BG at the end of this 24 hour period and he was down to 106 - a beautiful number by the way
    • getting at least one before bed test last night might have given a clue as to what was coming (20/20 hindsight!)
    • it's possible to dose Lantus on a pre shot number of 106 but it's early days for you so you might want to work your way to that over time
    • try 1.5 u tonight at the regular dose time (12 hours after the time he would have received the morning dose if you'd given it
    • get at least one test before bed tonight.
    Scary for you but he was in no danger. You're in the phase now of testing and logging data to learn his responses.
     
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  97. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Feb 8, 2018
    There’s no need to rush and change your routine. I would stick to schedule, unless this change would be more convenient for you in the long term, it’s not necessary. Take food away at least 2 hours from when you will shoot, test-feed-shoot as normal.
     
  98. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Yes, remove all food at least two hours before this evening's pre shot test. Also, the very long duration you had with the AM dose yesterday can be a sign that the 2 u dose was a little too high. If that dose was still working into the second cycle it would have added its residual effect to the evening 2 u dose and that could be why the pre shot BG was so low this AM.
     
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  99. Justin

    Justin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Sorry I was freaking out :( I was at work as well and my wife didnt know what to do, not giving him a shot was the best option I could come up with. I was shocked he was so low at amps time this AM. Low meaning good for sure but didn't think he would be there at that time. Could it be because he doesn't eat overnight and perhaps requires more during daytime?

    Anyway, should I always feed and take away or let him free eat during day?

    And yes I should have tested him again before bed. They say 12 hours yet he seems to hang onto it longer lol, or maybe its just him right now. not sure. I will update you all with PMPS and go from there. I agree 1.5 might be good for the night.
     
  100. Justin

    Justin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    Hey, this makes perfect sense to me
     
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