Cat has really low BG - won't rise

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Ellen_416, Dec 9, 2011.

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  1. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    Dec 9, 2011
    Hi all,

    Tonight I have not been able to get my cats BG levels up to a normal number. They are low (2.0, 1.7, 1.8 mmol) but he hasnt been showing any hypoglycemic symptoms.

    Back story: I have been reading this site for a few weeks as my cat has been newly diagnosed. The initial symptoms he had were weight loss, bad breath, dandruff and he was peeing a huge amount every time he went into the litter box - however I never saw him drink an excessive amount of water. I took him in for a blood and urine test and they told me his BG was 30! I was told to bring him back in for a 36 hour stay so they could start him on Glargine. It was either glargine or caninsulin, I wasnt given any other options. So they kept him in and started him on 2.5 units. Throughout the curve his levels stayed high, between 22-28 and I was told this insuline takes a few weeks to kick in properly and that it was a long lasting insulin compared to the caninsulin.

    I took him home with Hills prescription MD (or DM whatever the dry one is "for diabetic cats") and then began reading up online. I was told to bring lil kitty back in 4 weeks for another 36 hour stay so they could do another curve and adjust his insulin. After taking him home I got my own BG meter and tested him a couple of times and called the vet because the readings were still high (22, 26) and again he said give it a few weeks for the insulin to start to work so I didnt check it until today. A few days after getting lil kitty home I found janet and binkys food chart and threw out the Hills food and only feed all of my cats (3) wet food with 0 carbs from that list. They all currently eat Sophisticat Mixed Grill and Turkey and Giblets Dinner.

    When I got home today from work I decided that I should check his BG since it had been a few weeks. The first test I got 2.0, so I thought that cant be right (at this point its 10 hours since his morning 2.5 unit insulin shot) I checked it again right after and got 1.7. I called the vet and they said give him some food and check it again after 30 mins. So I gave him some of the wet food and checked 40 mins later and got 1.9. I gave him even more wet food and checked it again 2 hours later and got 1.8. Since then I have given him 2 unhealthy treats (temptations) and just checked again and he is at 2.1

    Why won't his levels come up? Is it because the wet food has 0 carbs? A co worker of mine that is diabetic gives himself insulin in advance based on the amount of carbs he is about to eat. I dont know if the carb thing is the same for cats, cause this food (according to Janets list) has 0. I am not sure what to do now. It has been just about 5 hours since the first low reading that I got.

    Does anyone have any advice? Sorry for such a long post!

    Thanks!
    Ellen
     
  2. ohbell

    ohbell Well-Known Member

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    Apr 21, 2011
    Yes, you should give some higher carb treats? gravy from higher carb food? karo syrup for fast acting rise in bgs. Very small amounts as you want to keep him to where he will eat and not be too full
    Check every 10 min or so and how long ago did you shoot?
    let us know, stay online and keep us posted please.
    more will respond....edit your post with a 911 at the top of page to reply
     
  3. Deb & Spot

    Deb & Spot Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Feeding temptations is good if that is the only thing you have in the house, but if you have some High Carb w/gravy, that would be better. Feed mostly the gravy so that kitty doesn't get to full in case you have to keep manipulating the lower numbers w/food. Make sure you check every 10 minutes to make sure numbers are going higher. And most of all...stay calm.
     
  4. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    Dec 9, 2011
    Temptations is all I have for treats, and I have some of the Hills Dry prescrition left as well and the dry Science Diet I was feeding them prior to one cat becoming diabetic.

    I have maple syrup as well (which I was told to use in case of emergency)
    Right now its 7:29pm in toronto and his last insulin dose of 2.5 unites was given 14 hours ago at 5:30am.

    I checked his BG while I was writing that first post and got 2.1
     
  5. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    Dec 9, 2011
    I just gave him about 10 temptations treats as well as 10 "Purina LUV Moist" treats.
     
  6. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    You can give him some of the dry......loaded with carbs so just start out with a little. Once you removed all his dry food and went to canned only his insulin needs dropped, drastically, so you are going to need to drop that dose down. He may also be heading towards remission because of removal of dry and may not even need insulin for now. Time will tell. Karo is just a quick spike, he needs some food.
     
  7. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    Dec 9, 2011
    I have just checked again and his BG is at 1.9

    How long does it take for treats or food to make the numbers rise?
     
  8. ohbell

    ohbell Well-Known Member

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    Apr 21, 2011
    it will take a bit, do you have karo?
    maple will work, how about a bit of bread - pinch with milk? not much milk either - like 1/2 tsp??
     
  9. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    I dont know what karo is
     
  10. ohbell

    ohbell Well-Known Member

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    sorry is a white syrup, but maple is fine
     
  11. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    Dec 9, 2011
    Should I give him that now? Do I just rub it on his gums?
    How long after this should I test him again?
    Should I go to Petsmart before it closes and get some wet food with gravy in it?
     
  12. Deb & Spot

    Deb & Spot Well-Known Member

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    by any chance do you have anyone who may be able to run to the store for you to grab a few cans of high carb food quickly?
     
  13. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    No, but I can go
     
  14. ohbell

    ohbell Well-Known Member

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    how about some ice cream - vanilla??? or yogart? perhaps some baby food that is high carb
     
  15. ohbell

    ohbell Well-Known Member

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    yes, rub some on the gums if he wont eat off finger
     
  16. Deb & Spot

    Deb & Spot Well-Known Member

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    No, I wouldn't want you to go unless it's a 5 minute trip. Would rather you stay with your kitty. Ice cream is good, syrup rubbed on gums good
     
  17. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    Dec 9, 2011
    Lol, you were right. No need to rub on the gums, he loved it.
    I gave him about 2 dime size amounts off of my finger. I have no idea how much is too much and how much is too little
     
  18. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    Dec 9, 2011
    How long should I wait before I recheck his BG?
    I only have about 10 strips left
     
  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    can somebody tell me what this number is in english?
     
  20. ohbell

    ohbell Well-Known Member

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    Apr 21, 2011
    do you have a place to buy tonite???
     
  21. Deb & Spot

    Deb & Spot Well-Known Member

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    well, that's good!!! I recommend testing in 15 minutes
     
  22. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    Do I have a place to buy what tonight? Wet food with gravy? Yes, Petsmart but it will take me about 30 mins
     
  23. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

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    Lori,

    1.9 = 34.2 to us

    Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
     
  24. ohbell

    ohbell Well-Known Member

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    Apr 21, 2011
    no, am talking about strips to purchase tonite
     
  25. Deb & Spot

    Deb & Spot Well-Known Member

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    ohbell was asking if you had anyplace you could go to tonight to buy strips, cuz you may want to have more on hand for tonight
     
  26. Lori
    Multiply by 18.
    30ish
     
  27. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    Dec 9, 2011
    Oh sorry, I could try a pharmacy but I have never bought them before.
    My coworker gave me his previous meter with a new bottle of strips (25)
     
  28. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    well at +14 can we somewhat assume the worst is likely over.
    a little sugar at home should be given.
    honey or whatever you have.
    10 strips should take you thru what is left of this.
     
  29. ohbell

    ohbell Well-Known Member

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    Apr 21, 2011
    you might want to try to call, as you might need
     
  30. kalyv

    kalyv Member

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    Sep 24, 2011
    Where are you in Toronto Ellen? I have several cans of turkey and cheese friskies which is high carb wet food. If you are accessible by TTC, I don't mind running it out to you.

    I live at Bloor and Landsdown.

    I will PM you my phone number if you want to give me a call.
     
  31. Deb & Spot

    Deb & Spot Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    yes, I would definitely call to see if you can get more strips. 10 may get you through, but it may not. Better to caution on the safe side, I say.
     
  32. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    Dec 9, 2011
    Thank you so much for that offer, but Bloor and Landsdown is quite a long journey for you! I am near the Science Center. I have a convenience store across the street that I will run over to, after my next test, if it his BG isnt going up.
     
  33. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    well I thought Ellen had 25 strips from another meter. Food would be a nice additon.
     
  34. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    Dec 9, 2011
    No, I have 10 left. I got 25 strips with the meter.
     
  35. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Just go get that high carb canned if you can
     
  36. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    Dec 9, 2011
    I just checked his BG again and it is at 2.2

    Up a little, but barely.

    "In English" that is 39.6
     
  37. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    run across the street and get the high carb gravy food. no more 0 carb ok?
     
  38. Deb & Spot

    Deb & Spot Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    I would definitely get a few cans of high carb w/gravy if you just have to run across the street for it. May help bring up those numbers quicker
     
  39. cellosmom

    cellosmom Member

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  40. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    Dec 9, 2011
    Just came back from Petsmart. Lil kitty was chasing the other cat around the house so I figured he would be ok while I went to Petsmart.
    I got a few cans of high carb. Checked his BG just now (before giving the canned food) and its at 2.9 or 52.2 in English.

    When you say no more 0 carb food do you mean just tonight and tomorrow, or from now on?
    Id prefer to keep him on really low carb food in the future if it means he doesnt have to get insulin
     
  41. Deb & Spot

    Deb & Spot Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    52 is good, he's going up. And chasing the other kitties is a good sign!
     
  42. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    Dec 9, 2011
    What should my plan be for tomorrow then?

    He missed his 5:30pm injection of 2.5 units.

    Tomorrow at 5:30am I will check his BG and then what should i do if its 3? or 5? or 15? or 20?
    I have never changed his dose since his initial diagnoses.

    I am also not sure what to do about the 0 carb wet food. If his numbers stay around 4-8, without insulin, can I continue to give him the 0 carb wet food? Should I move to something a bit higher but not too high?
     
  43. Deb & Spot

    Deb & Spot Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    I believe that if you are going to continue to feed the 0% carb food, you will need to lower your dose. At this point, tho I don't feel comfortable answering you about tomorrow. I get up around 6 am to give Spot his shot, I can get up earlier and log in to see how things are going. Of course, there may be others around who can answer your questions!
     
  44. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    Dec 9, 2011
    Ok, I will check him a few more times before I go to bed.

    When I get up at 5:30 I will check his BG and post on here if it is too high or too low.

    Is it possible that he could no longer need insulin at this point? Or would he gradually stop needing it? ie. Go down to 2 units, to 1.5, to 1 etc.
     
  45. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    Dec 9, 2011
    Thank you everyone for all your help!

    I dont know what I would have done without you! (Probably gone to the emergency vet and spent $500!!)
     
  46. Deb & Spot

    Deb & Spot Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Good idea to check a few more times before going to bed. Were you able to get more strips?
    I'll check in tomorrow morning and see how things are going, but I'll also check this thread to see how your kitty is doing before turning into bed myself. BTW, what is your kitty's name? I don't recall seeing it in any of your posts
     
  47. ohbell

    ohbell Well-Known Member

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    Apr 21, 2011
    :dizcat goooood job mommabean, now lets test BEFORE any shot and some in between test to see what the insulin - no insulin is doing.......... :RAHCAT
    were you able to get any more strips???? please read the info and print (like I did) the hypo instructions and foods to have. You can look at my spreadsheet in my signature to see what happened with my Sugar Bean. I was in this situation and really had NO high carb foods eeeeek! Lori was on the phone with me for hours and we were going thru things in the house, guess I THOUGHT I had high carb foods to find out, not really! The very next day, mommabean bought some stuff, let me tell ya....
    I will share my full story later, as I think it is soooo important for all newbies to know...... at another time.
    For now, breathe, relax, sleep or just plain cry.....all is gooooood and baby is safe safe safe. \M/
    Please post in the am if you feel the need before any insulin..... I am up.... early bird, as many are, and perhaps I could lend a thought or two
     
  48. Deb & Spot

    Deb & Spot Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Yes, I must echo what ohbell said.....make sure you have your hypo kit ready! When I first started the sugar dance with Spot, I did a lot of lurking on the board reading posts, especially the hypo ones. I got my hypo kit ready with all the necessary supplies and put it on top of the china closet, just in case. Well, one day Spot did go low...in the 30's it was, and thankfully, I remembered all that I read and had my kit ready and was more than ready to take care of the situation. I still have that hypo kit on top of the china closet....every month or so I get out the cans of high carb and replace them with new cans (I feed the "old" can to my civvie, who just loves gravy) and make sure that nothing is expired. I'm ready for a hypo....still after three years because you never know what these kitties will throw you!

    Time for me to head off to bed before the cough meds kick in and I start getting wonky. Hope you get some rest tonight. I'll check in with you guys in the morning also. Nite!
     
  49. Deb & Spot

    Deb & Spot Well-Known Member

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    Hi Ellen, just checking in since I'm up and about for a few minutes. Was looking to see updated numbers from last night. How'd kitty do?

    Unfortunately, I had neighbors from hell last night, who kept me up mostly the entire night with the noise they were making, so I am heading back to bed since it sounds quiet over there. Hopefully someone will be around when you post your numbers this morning.
     
  50. ohbell

    ohbell Well-Known Member

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    Apr 21, 2011
    Ms Ellen,
    How are YOU and I think it is..Lil Kitty? Please let us know when you can...I will be on here today.
    I would think?? his numbers are going to be higher due to the carb treats and no shot and bounce.........so lets seee what they are and get to working on it ;-)
    Very glad you decided to test kitty! Hopefully, this will be your only experience with hypo actions.
    Maybe Lil is trying to go into remission??? cant tell yet as I think 2.5 is way too much insulin without high carb foods on board.
    Sending furry hugs to ya, wishing you and Lil got some rest...
     
  51. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    Dec 9, 2011
    Sorry I didn't post earlier. Waking up during the night to test made me sleep in for work so I had to rush out of here in a hurry. I ended up leaving work early anyway cause I'm sick :(

    I gave lil kitty a can of high carb wet food last night. During the night his numbers were 3.4,3.9 and the latest (20 mins ago) was 5.9. It is now +28 hours since his last injection

    I called the vet last night when I got my first low reading, they told me not to give him a shot unless he goes over 10 so I havent given him anything since yesterday morning at 5:30am.

    He just finished eating from a can of 0 carb food. It should be interesting to see where his numbers go from here.
    Hopefully this is a sign of remission!

    Thanks again for all your help and support through this. I am so happy I checked his BG yesterday when I got home from work. Who knows where we'd be now if I hadn't.

    I will keep you posted when I check his BG again.
    I managed to get some more strips from my coworker so I should be good for the next little while
     
  52. ohbell

    ohbell Well-Known Member

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    Apr 21, 2011
    What great news, sorry about u being sick, but glad you tested.... I am thinkin I take the 5.9 x 18 - sb 106 - that is great! not that high at all.
    gooood job :smile:
     
  53. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Welcome, Ellen.

    It seems like you got a baptism by fire last night. I'm really glad you had some experienced Lantus (glargine) users like Deb/Spot and several others to lend you a hand. Getting low numbers like that, especially when you haven't had much experience with testing, can be cause for a panic attack! It sounds like you did incredibly well and yes, it was nothing short of a stroke of genius that you tested when you got home from work. Please get a few spot checks today. Low numbers like you encountered last night can linger with Lantus. Once the high carb wears off, numbers can drop. It is likely that numbers will start rising but I'm also wondering how much insulin your cat actually needs. It usually takes about 5 -7 days for Lantus to be at a level where you start seeing results. However, if it was 3 days at the vet's office, your cat may have been very stressed and that stress may have caused higher numbers. Your cat may be on a dose that doesn't reflect where his numbers really are. Your initiative in switching your cats to low carb, canned food also suggests that your cat may be on a very quick road to becoming diet controlled.

    Just so you have the information handy, we have a post on the Lantus board to walk you through how to handle low numbers. We likewise caution someone new to this process to not shoot if numbers are below 150 (8.3). Once you get into the swing of things, there are other options like stalling to wait for numbers to rise, that may make sense.

    Based on the dosing protocol we use on the Lantus board, you will want to check with your vet but a drop below 50 (2.7) would warrant a dose reduction. You may want to look over the Tight Regulation Protocol and discuss this with your vet. There are additional links in the post to the formal version of this protocol including the article that was published in one of the leading veterinary journals. For a newly diagnosed cat, this approach to managing feline diabetes offers your cat the best chance at remission.

    Please let us know if you have questions or if there's any way we can be of more help.
     
  54. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    Dec 9, 2011
    Hi everyone,

    So far today lil kitty has only eaten his 0 carb food and I just checked him again and he is at 4.8 (down from 5.9 this morning)

    Right now it is +36 hours since his last injection. Because his numbers are lowering even without an insulin shot today, is it possible for him to get hypo again tonight?

    PS I have started my hypo kit. Hopefully I won't need it!!
     
  55. ohbell

    ohbell Well-Known Member

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    Apr 21, 2011
    I would not think so, but I will leave that answer to those that are familar with the insulin... I used PZI..
     
  56. Deb & Spot

    Deb & Spot Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    As long as you didn't give any insulin, he will not go hypo on you! For now, I would suggest that you continue to give the 0% carb food and get those occasional checks to see how his bg's are doing w/o insulin on board. Who knows, lil kitty may be going OTJ!
     
  57. Lisa and Witn (GA)

    Lisa and Witn (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    It looks like you have some pancreatic action going on and may soon be diet controlled. That is a great number for +36. :RAHCAT

    Keep feeding the low carb food. You are doing a great job.
     
  58. Ellen_416

    Ellen_416 New Member

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    Dec 9, 2011
    Hi everyone,

    Just wanted to give a quick update on lil kitty. He is doing great! He is currently +62 hours since his last shot. I have continuted to feed him and the other cats the 0% carb food.
    I tested him last night before bed and he was at 6.7 (120.6) and I was worried that it was creeping back up again.
    I checked him again this morning and got 6.3 (113.4) and then I checked him again just now and got 4.5 (81)!

    Would he be conisdered to be in remission now?
    I cant wait to call the vet tomorrow and tell him! (especially since they were trying to get me to come in this week and pay $300 for another curve!)
    I will also bring the vet a copy of Janet and Binkys food chart and suggest that he give it to people if they can test at home. I am sure that that is what made the difference in all of this.
    If it was up to the vet, my cats would still be on dry food and lil kitty probably still diabetic. Thank god for this forum!

    P.S. I know otj means remission, but what does it stand for?

    Thanks again to everyone for all your support and advice!
     
  59. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    OTJ= off the juice.
     
  60. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    OTJ = Off The Juice (insulin) = diet controlled diabetic.

    You need about 2 weeks of no insulin to be officially off the juice. Its looking positive.
     
  61. Great news!

    You might also want to consider sharing your SS with the vet. Let him know that all his patients who could test at home could do the same thing, and that all he'd have to do is go to googledocs and look at them when it was convenient for him to do so.

    Carl
     
  62. ohbell

    ohbell Well-Known Member

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    Apr 21, 2011
    WHAT A GREAT THING TO READ!!!! AND WHAT A WONDERFUL MOMMABEAN (YOU).
    You have done a great job testing, feeding low carb and taking control of your baby.....
    Maybe your hypo kit can be passed on after a bit to someone NEW that might need it :razz:
    I am dusting my party hats for Mr. Lil Kitty.......Sugar Bean and Civvies: Slappy & Ittle Sista will be there donning the hats and whistles and of course - cat nip party_cat drinking24 party_cat drinking24
     
  63. Pam & Po-Kitty

    Pam & Po-Kitty Member

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    Jul 7, 2011
    Hey All, Hello Ellen!

    Wanting to check in and see how your kitty is doing... As I read ur post, I felt like I was having Deja-vue! You are right! You did come to the right place!
    I too am so grateful and blessed that I found FDMB. Keep us posted. Pam, Po-Kitty and all my other Fur-babies
     
  64. Pam & Po-Kitty

    Pam & Po-Kitty Member

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    Jul 7, 2011
    YEAH!!! WOOO HOO! LOL, :RAHCAT I guess I was typing when u were updating us!!!! Thank Goodness! MIRACLES Do HAPPEN! I am a firm believer in that! <3

    Makes my Heart smile, when I see how much a newbie to Feline Diabetes comes in here and desperately needs help and advice, and with the support of you all, helps
    guide us/them thru the process of getting our kittys back on track, I will make sure I re-read all the post and save all important info. to my Diabetes Folder.

    And like the others stated, sharing with your vet is a must, I know I do, because my vet is not up to par on F.D. , And i want to help her , help others.

    Goodnight Friends, Pam
     
  65. julie & punkin (ga)

    julie & punkin (ga) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2011
    hi ellen - great to see this!

    just to make sure you know - once a cat has been diabetic and go off of insulin, you still need to feed him as though he is diabetic. he is simply diet-controlled. so the low-carb canned food diet is forever. you also want to test the BG every so often, especially if you see any signs of diabetes like the excess thirst or urination. if a cat develops an infection or pain it can cause the BG to rise. you just don't want something like that to sneak up on you.

    best of luck to you! congratulations!
     
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