Panic June 2nd PMPS 318

Sorry I hope this is an appropriate use of 911 but I have to go to work in less than an hour!!

Kept kitty in last night so she could eat throughout the night, she ate all her night snacks, I put her out about 7AM this morning. She was at the door like usual at 9AM, I let her in to eat and she didn't seem interested. I went outside to feed the rest of the animals, found some vomit but multi-cat household, not sure who it was. Vomit is normal, no blood.

Came back in, she hasn't eaten but staying at the water bowl drinking...found more vomit on the carpet, don't think she's touched the food I set out though. AMPS reads 427, she didn't squirm during testing like she normally does.

Did not get a reading last night (sorry!), reading today, yesterday, and day before were done on Alphatrak. She's on 4u but we think she's been bouncing. Do I half her dose or skip it? No one at home can test but me, not sure if I should call out of work...

 

Okay, breathe!!! You got this.

Sometimes when my sugar cat’s BGL is high, she’s not as hungry. And she’s going to be very thirsty when that happens, too. How much can you get her to eat?

Any possibility of testing for ketones?

 

@Ti-Mousse I see you used caninsulin, can you help?

 

She won't eat anything, I just put some Parmesan cheese down and she doesn't want it. She's laying down under the table now where she likes to chill.

She threw up quite a bit since she did it twice, must have been her night snacks. Dog was eating it >.<

I don't have any strips, she's mainly an outdoor cat so don't catch her peeing often.

 

I would call your vet and bring your cat in if you can. Vomiting and anorexia with diabetes can lead to DKA fast.

 

Can you syringe feed?

 

My vet is closed today. There's a 24 hour vet about 45 minutes out but idk if I could afford it.

 

Are you low income? (I ask because this affects resource options.)

 

I am yes. I don't have a syringe to feed her with unfortunately. I cracked open an egg and she lapped at the egg white a couple times. I just put down some PureBites freeze dried chicken and she seems interested in it.

Thank you for helping me.

 

She ate the handful of PureBites I put down, I offered her some Fancy Feast and sprinkled more PureBites on it and she's slowly working on it! She's taking breaks after every couple bites but she's finally eating! Should I wait a half hour to make sure it stays down and give her maybe 2 units? I called my work and said I either wasn't coming in today or would come in late, depending on how she does so I have more time.

 

SO glad she is eating some!
Have you looked at the qualifications for receiving assistance from Diabetic Cats in Need?

 

I would prefer someone with experience with vetsulin offer dosing advice, but if ketones are a risk, I would be reticent to skip a dose completely. Definitely wait a bit and see what she keeps down.

 

http://www.dcin.dreamhosters.com/ Diabetic Cats in Need link.

 

She decided she was done for now, hopefully she'll eat more. I haven't looked into it yet but I definitely will after this blows over!

 

Reread initial post.
If you have half-dosed in the past successfully, I would still dose something. (Assuming she has eaten enough and is keeping something down.) Her numbers are fairly high so far but there’s not a lot of data. I used NPH before and that was faster-acting, and Vetsulin is similar I believe. I will review some Vetsulin-specific info though. Can you get ketostix and please keep her in today? Get a urine sample? She may not love staying in but it will benefit her. She may also be vomiting because she got into something (just a background thing to consider), or she may have an infection. I would absolutely bring her in to your regular vet tomorrow if nowhere else today.

 

I don’t expect you to rush to look at it, take your time.

Go here first when you do, it is the page regarding emergency assistance. Are you in the US?
http://www.dcin.dreamhosters.com/emergency-veterinary-assistance/

 

@Sienne and Gabby (GA) youve been around longer, are you still on right now? Can you correct me on anything if needed?

 

Last time she didn't eat enough (no vomit involved) I took her to the vet and she tested over 600 so they told me to dose her 4u anyway, and if she still didn't eat enough for the next cycles (this was over the weekend so I couldn't call) to just give her 2u.

I will try to get some ketostix today if I feel comfortable enough to separate myself from her. I'm out in the middle of no where, nearest Walmart is 30 min

 

I can't help you with dosing but you should post in the Caninsulin/Vetsulin forum here and change your title for something like that: "Urgent dosing advice - high numbers, vomiting & not eating"
You should have help there!

 

I don't usually get responses there but I will crosspost and see!

 

Good to know! We'll try to find someone to help!

 

Do you have enough test strips for the day? Syrup handy in case of hypo?

When you start new post in the ISG, could you link it here, please? Then I can follow over there instead.

 

Thank you! I really wish this wasn't happening on the weekend when my vet is closed.

 

Thank you Lyane, I’m not sure which members are the best ones for this! Need a veteran. Or someone who can at least navigate better.

 

Here you go @AliceMeowliss&Cassandra !

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...vice-high-numbers-vomiting-not-eating.215198/

I have plenty of testing strips and karo syrup, high carb wet food, etc!

 

It always happens on the weekend, I swear!!!! Or middle of the night! You’ll get through it though.

I’ll move over to the ISG post to follow.

 

let her finish the food, wait 30 min, test and post the number on here.
Hold on to the shot just yet .

 

Right Cassandra!! I feel like I could hug you right now, I wasn't planning on being so stressed so I appreciate you sticking with us this morning!

Absolutely, thank you! She is munching away again, looks like she definitely ate at least half so maybe around 11ish or a bit after I'll test and post!

 

@Panic we have allll been there!!!! I spent mother’s day testing every 20-30 minutes some hours and propping Alice’s sugar, and I had three moms to visit I skipped. I just had to be mom myself for the day. No one plans it. But you can get through it. I barely slept for five weeks but it paid off because Alice is so happy again. You’ll get through. And you’re on a better track than I was before.

Next time you leave the house absolutely do try and get some ketone test strips. I wish I had them before Alice’s DKA event!

ETA: I wouldn’t be where I am now without the help I found here and through DCIN. We learn as we go and support each other as a community and we can make things better. I am glad to be able to give a little back. I’ve gotten so much.

 

That is exactly right LOL. Glad I'm not alone, and glad this site isn't down on the weekends baha!
I will definitely pick some up today, I thiiiink I'm going to be going to work after all (albeit a couple hours late) but I was going to Walmart afterwards to pick up some Fancy Feast...I was going to get my regular Relion strips but both my Walmarts seem to be out of stock!! Hopefully they'll have the ketone strips though.

Panic just slurped up a good bit of the egg white I had sitting out too. Not sure what all this was about, she ate both her night snacks and seemed chill when I put her out this morning before breakfast...there was a dead chipmunk by the porch but it didn't looked nibbled on and I bet it was my young tomcat who caught it. Don't know what else could have made her nauseous.

 

will you be able to stay late enough to take +2.5 or +3.5 test?

 

my cat vomited (very atypical) recently just out of the blue, no reasons were found.
I left her alone and in 45 - 50 min she recovered-ate well the PS meal and got her full dose.
I hope that's how Panis will do.

 

so, were today's tests taken using AlphaTrack?
The Remarks in the SS says it was done yesterday and I wasn't clear about it.

 

I edited my post earlier, not sure if you saw, but I ran out of Relion strips Friday, so Friday, Saturday, and today are all Alphatrak strips. I don't know the best way to customize my SS to make it easier for others to see if I used a different meter other than just remarks.

I mean technically I told my boss I was either calling out or coming in late, so theoretically I could stay that late if needed. Do you think I should get a +2 at minimum? My brother is home but he does not test.

 

I will find someone and tag them who could maybe help you with the spreadsheet....
ETA:
@Marje and Gracie helped me with some issues with mine.

Yes please get a +2! Data is important when something is out of the ordinary!

 

Just tested, she is at 480 on Alphatrak.

 

I want you to take test 30 min after eating to see the food bump and to make sure the food stays in.

If she is willing to eat later I would give the regular 4 U dose, feed some more LC and take the next test at +2 and post here. If she lower and you gotta go then feed some more and take "in the door" tst and post it here.
Is it doable?

 

I've been here off and on all morning but as still a newbie, reluctant to say anything about dosing, though I've gotten rather familiar with Vetsulin
could she have gotten into grass and munched? doesn't seem to take much to trigger vomiting, weed seeds too

you might want to order some of the Prime test strips online from Walmart to have next time you need to use extras,
I notice some Walmarts seem to be stocking fewer of the Prime strips, and most are out of the ones I use (for the Confirm/Micro) --
these others ARE available online and RolledBack (aka closing out)

Walmart here seems to get the last of the stocks -- there actually are 3 boxes of the Confirm/Micro on the shelf, and what looks like 6 more behind counter
didn't see any Prime strips on the shelf, but looked like some behind counter (the WM here is not a super type one)

oh, Fancy Feast -- at Walmart, cheaper if you buy the classic pate assortment rather than the individual cans, of course cheaper yet from Chewy,
I get the poultry/beef assortment even though several of those do have fish as an ingredient

and encouragement, you can do this

 

and after a handfull of High Carbs treats, is it correct?

I would give her her full 4U dose and test at +2.5 and post it here.

If your brother at home and can keep an eye on her it is awesome. He can feed her a little if she hungry any time during the cycle.

What do you think about full dose?

 

@Tanya and Ducia will you be on for a bit to monitor?

 

yes.

 

Low-carb treats, they are PureBites freeze-dried chicken. Gave her a handful and she ate most, I added what she didn't eat to the Fancy Feast breakfast she eventually ate. I just offered her another small chunk of Fancy Feast and she took it. I think now I'd be comfortable giving a full dose but she's also been bouncing possibly from too much insulin...I know that's another annoying variable to add but her normal dose is indeed 4u. Does it sound alright to give her full amount then?

I will stay for the +2.5 and post. Would it be okay to go to work after that, or does it depend on her numbers later? My boss wanted me to keep him updated on whether I could come in.

 

It is hard to be certain without the second half of the picture but I think it is reasonable with the data recorded to expect lowering around +3 or +5 which could mean that the +2.5 test will show us downward movement. If so - feed a little extra LC to avoid fast drops ad retest in 1.5 hours if ate wet LC food or in 2 hours if dry kibble. Small portions better for diabetics and slow down drops preventing future bouncing.

 

It’s frustrating sometimes, but you can’t be sure until you get the next number and see where she is headed.

 

IMHO more likely from going lower at night as many cats do (check out my SS).

 

Here’s some love and encouragement from my ginger boys.
You’re doing great!

 

I'll see you then (but I will post something about housekeeping , please read).

I think it'll be ok to leave (engage your brother for feeding for today if the numbers going down) but my cat proves wrong often enough to say "let's wait for that post +2.5 test".

 

one more comment, more for you than for Panic -- remember, the AlphaTrak and the ReliOn test values will be further and further apart, the higher the BG is -- so don't let those higher numbers on the AlphaTrak meter, get you into a panic (deliberate snicker, you need humor as well when scared and stressed) -- the number if you had the ReliOn strips available, might have been as much as 70-80 less -- I know this because vet and I did simultaneous tests at her clinic with our two meters, cat was stressed, her meter read 326, mine read 270

 

I understand, thank you for lurking anyway! I'd be the same way.
Totally possible but she's never done it before so who knows! My dog who is obsessed with food and ate Panic's puke (yuck) is acting unhungry now too...could be a fluke or maybe she did get into something.

I went to not my normal Walmart on Friday and all the Prime strips were sold out but they had plenty of Confirm/Micro! So I was going to go to my normal Walmart after work today, online they say in-stock but just for kicks I did "pick up in store" last night to see if it would say they're in...they're not >:T Says they'll be in Tuesday!

I get the 30 can Poultry/Beef pack at Walmart, I thought Chewy charged the same amount?? Is it really cheaper?

And about the meters, yes absolutely! I have a little "rough" guide somewhere where it states what the "rough" difference is between the two types - further for big numbers, closer for little.

@Tanya and Ducia
Thank you so much for all your help! I shot her but wouldn't you know it, fur was wet so hopefully she got enough in her system (I even checked to make sure it stuck in her skin - darn beautiful long haired cat!) and I will let you know! Should I only do a +2.5 test? Also why that time and not sooner or later? Just curious!
I may or may not leave later anyway...our store closes at 6 and I live an hour out so +2.5 test and leaving will get me there around 3 LOL. I'll leave it up to my boss to decide.

@AliceMeowliss&Cassandra I love your ginger boys!! Give them a snuggle for me! I will have to show you my ginger kitties, they always have a special place in my heart <3

 

If you had given the dose I'd like to ask you to update the spreadsheet so everyone is updated in one glimpse:
highlight the entire row of cell for May 31, then Insert on the menu panel and click on "Insert Row Above".
A new blank row will - type in capital letter "Using Alphatrack" and safe the changes.
(When yo are back on Relion meter - repeat but type using Relion.)

For today's events: In the AMPS cell put 427 @+12; 480 @+13 (if you were late the full hour, or whatever time has lapsed since usual shot time to the actual this AM shot time). The background color will go and yo have to manually color it back using Paint Bucket Icon on the menu panel.

I am not being stuffy - the way I propose is the fastest to get all the info at once. All these seemingly small details can play crucial role with dosing suggestions.

 

thank you Tanya and Ducia -- for the housekeeping procedure, I had used a different method when I had an unusually low AMPS, I like yours better
and heaps of thanks for being there, giving her (and me) good advice and support

 

I will do that now - I am still trying to figure out how to customize them to give all the necessary info, like late dosages and different meters. I suppose I have 2.5 hours now to work on them! I don't find you being stuffy at all, I appreciate your advice!

Speaking of which, does anyone know a good method for posting if you alternate a meter for a test? Like if just once you use a different meter, is there a simple way to show that aside from remarks?

 

the lowest Blue number occurred in the past on 4Uwas +4. Earlier test like +2.5 could reveal the downward movement and thus signal an active cycle. In such cases a little LC food slows down the drop and helps leveling the cycle. Yes, the food throughout the day will keep BG a bit up but it is better BC it enables you to keep a good dose for longer creating an opportunity for the Pancreas to heal whilst in good low Blue or Green.
YOu see, the fast drops - like the one you had May 13th, AM cycle +5 199 - +7 73 - often trigger the bounce. Since you do not know what exactly going on at night then it is legit to guess that she goes lower and then bounces during AM cycle.
Let's wait until you have next number.
Does it make sense?

 

got a coupon in the mail for Chewy -- 15% off if you buy $49 -- then checked retailmenot, coupon code there is 25HH8GDS -- another site lists a code of 15CHEWY -- price for the FF 30 pack poultry/beef at local WM is 17.88 plus local tax 10.1% -- Chewy (at least today) 17.64

 

Oh! I did not know that! That makes sense, thank you for explaining.

Oh so you buy in bulk to hit that $49 mark? That's smart haha. Every time I try those retailmenots I get expired coupons

 

what Tanya said !!! -- we're bouncing on vetsulin too, likely for same reason, only ours is the kiddie roller coaster and you have the Six Flags version

using two meters -- what I did was set up a separate spreadsheet for tests with different meter -- in my case it was vet's tests with her AlphaTrak versus mine at home with ReliOn-- but I like Tanya's solution better, keeps all your info on one sheet

 

LOL Candy we are indeed Six Flags right now!!

Vetcurve SS makes sense though, considering it's always going to be a different meter and stress levels are higher but yeah, swapping between two different meters at home makes the SS look muddy >.< Definitely wasn't my intention, but what can you do when you run out!

 

I think the 911 can be taken out now.

 

lots of different things to buy at Chewy to get that $49 to trigger the coupon -- no-carb treats, food, supplies, they even have vetsulin! also a better price on the Nutri-Vet paw gel which Catcat loves and which seems to help both hairballs and urinary health (he's part Siamese, and Siamese neuters often have crystals, blockages, etc)

I would give you the code off the coupon I have, but I intend to use it, betcha there are others on the board who got the same mailer, maybe with a different code

 

Catcat has Siamese in him? I wouldn't have guessed! O:
No worries, I'm pretty sure we get those Chewy postcards in the mail - I'm sure one is still laying around with those "X amount off your first order" codes xD

 

for what it's worth, if you look at Catcat's spreadsheet, he seems to hit nadir somewhere between +4 and +5 -- typical of vetsulin -- though if he's bouncing, the nadir isn't really obvious -- and it can occur a little bit earlier or possibly later, by +6 he's on the rise (and I quit giving him spoons of food then too) -- however, sing the chorus -- ECID --

clues to Siamese heritage, his paws are oval not round -- and if you heard him meow, or yowl, no brainer

 

I didn't know that!

This I DO know...a bit too well. I have 5 with Siamese ancestry including Elliott that could be Catcat's twin, just a little younger...

 

his presumed sibling, Mia, had the delicate female Siamese body type, a tabby-tortie calico with golden eyes, but she escaped through the dog door as soon as she figured out how to climb the stacked baby gates blocking the stairs (protecting new adoptees from husky/lab mix), stayed in the outbuildings for awhile, then wandered over to my friend's house a quarter mile away, took up with Peaches, the resident blue-cream tortie there, for awhile, then ????

typical contentious siblings, would not share food dish, water dish, nor litter box

we figure they were the offspring of a tortie-with-white medium to longhair, and an applehead Siamese or Siamese mix -- Catcat has, not an ascot nor bib, but an irregular white patch where a gentleman might wear a pocket handkerchief -- his fur is almost Balinese-like (wonderfully silky), but his tail is smooth and fairly sleek

 

@Tanya and Ducia

+2.5 test was 486, no change it seems. She did get at least a partial fur shot though.
I have food out but she's not hungry right now.

 

Thank you!

I think it is ok for you to leave. Ask you brother to put out a dish for her with a little -maybe 2-3 teaspoons of food out in a couple of hours and to watch her symptoms - if she became very hungry then feed he.

It is possible that she will go lower later on. When can be home to take test?

I'll try to check in around your PM. When exactly it is and what is your time zone? I am in PST zone.

You SS looks perfect!
Well done (although I wish we had the PM tests too).

 

Thank you! Yes I'm sorry about no PMs, I didn't get one in last night because she had eaten within 2 hours of shot and she's always been high enough...what should I do if she ends up with food in her system two hours prior to shooting?

I am EST, so three hours ahead of you! I will be back around 7 which is 5 hours from now Gotta run now, but thank you!

 

I want to apologize for innumerate grammar mistakes and typos.
My old Vista PC no longer likes me typing. Keeps freezing. Sigh.
Getting back to correct it all takes forever.
I'll be posting as it is; sorry.

A few things: we used to trim Ducia short but very dense fur down a little with my hubby's ols beard timmer - it helped a lot with reducing furshots. Warning: not all cats like being trimmed along their bellies - use caution and an assistant.

Get some variety of carby foods - like FF Gravy Lovers or Grilled - all good MC gravy , good for steerin the low BG up in no time. Very cheap.

Walmart brand Relion sells Relion Keto Sticks for less than $7.

 

as my friend often says -- "good job" (clap, clap)

time for lunch, Pacific NW, Catcat has had his (I give him extra at +4 to smooth through nadir)

TTYL ...

 

record all foods - amount, carbs% and the time fed in the SS Remarks.

 

That's a good idea, but I'm able to shoot her without complaint in just about any area of the body, so she'd be all patchy if I did all the areas LOL. My MAIN issue (well, two, I switched her to U100s and it's a lot easier again) is her mats in her fur...she always had very nice un-matted fur pre-diabetes, and I was very particular to getting them out as soon as I spotted any. But after she got very, very sick and was essentially laying outside in her own diarrhea and in the woods she got pretty bad. I've been slowly working away at them for weeks. Once I get all those pesky things off it will be so much easier, because right now sometimes I'll shoot thinking it's skin but it was just a mat!

Update for everyone: +8.5 she is at 377 on Alphatrak. Managed to pick up both some Relion strips (they said they were out of stock but I FOUND some) and the last box of ketone strips! She ate a bit when I got home but doesn't seem too interested.

 

better to look patchy than to endure fur shots -- if she's matted like that, I'd be tempted to get kindergarten scissors (with the rounded blunt tips) and cut the mats out, surely that would be easier than trying to comb or brush them out -- and as a bonus, you'd have visible skin from underneath

as the hairdresser at the salon keeps telling me, it WILL grow back ..

too bad the detangler sprays for kids aren't safe for cats .. you could try coconut oil as a "conditioner" -- I found it was easier to part Catcat's fur to get down to skin, if I smoothed a little olive oil on the fur first -- probably helped with the dry skin/dandruff he's getting over

 

This is great!
If she is hungry try to get by by very little LC snacks. She might be around or past her nadir and food will shorten the duration of the dose.

Your shot time is off for over an hour tonight.
Have you decided when will you shoot?
With Vetsulin you can be a bit more flexible than with Lantus which 12x12h strictly.

 

You are totally right Candy. XD I have actually already cut out all the mats I could, the rest are just too close to the skin to be cutting on. I'm really upset that I misplaced my small greyhound comb - it was perfect for her and I never lose things but it's vanished! Maybe I should just get a new one. You know I totally forgot about that coconut oil trick though, I need to try that!!

That is good to know, thank you Tanya! That is a good question...we're actually two hours off schedule, she usually gets her shot at 9:30. I suppose I could aim for 10:30, maybe that will give her some wiggle room if she decides not to eat enough? If I've read right you can do it an hour early on Vetsulin but for my personal schedule it won't hurt if she goes later.

 

Also I want to thank each and every one of you for your support and advice today. Panic and I really, really appreciated it.

 

How about keeping your current schedule 9:30AM/PM? I mean if it fits.
A day may come when you have the"low numbers event" ,let's say at your +4 or +6 - and that's too late on the EST and CST, and no one maybe on to help.There are very few PST folks, I am one of them and I rarely online. I remember well how much help I needed at the beginning and being able to access help on time might be a good point to consider for your for the shot time.

If it safe to give Vetsulin 2 h earlier, of course.

If you are able to stay up and monitor tonight (in case you don't have to go to work tomorrow) and to interfere with higher carbs if too low I think you can shoot at the usual time of 9:30sh or 10pm/10 am.

Do you have anyone on VetsulinForum to ask about safety/merit of shooting early?
@Panic

 

I am going back through the thread and re-reading everyone's posts for helpful tips I might have overlooked in the stress of this morning and this caught my eye - I understand most of use free feed or give multiple meals during the day. Personally (aside from today!) I give Panic an entire can for breakfast, maybe another 1/3 for her +1.5 meal, and then snacks of about 1/4 throughout the day until dinnertime. She eats at least a can a day in snacks alone. Weight isn't a problem because we are trying to get it up (currently 4 lbs). Is the 1 whole can for breakfast not a good idea?

In response to your message just now - I can't confirm 2 hours early, I was just looking the other day to see any approved wiggle room but can't seem to find any aside from 1 hour. It's already 9:30 where I'm at so that won't work anyway haha. I could set down some food and try to shoot at 10 though. That is a good point for timezones too, I hadn't thought of that. I don't have to work until tomorrow afternoon - what times post evening shot would be ideal for testing?

 

ok, then 10 or10:30, up to you. Post the preshot here - I'll check in by then.

The +8.5 read was promising. I hope she'll give you nice preshot.
Are you able to stay up tonight and monitor starting at +2 or +3?
How is her appy? Is she willing to eat, interested?

 

I shot an hour and a quarter early on the 29th, had to do so because of meeting someone at the airport -- at least for Catcat, the vetsulin seems to peter out about +9 - +10 -- didn't seem to upset things, pretty much normal -- the +4 was actually about the same time of night as the +3s showing on the spreadsheet

after some advice I got, I started feeding Catcat at least a little bit every hour for the first six, then nothing until PMPS time -- BG level is already rising at +6, (1 PM Pacific) and he usually naps during the afternoon anyway (gets warm here in the loft) -- gets active again when he notices us starting dinner so sometimes we get a little ahead and do the PMPS mini-meal-and-test a few minutes before 6:30 pm -- PM shoot scheduled at 7

I tend to increase the amount a bit around +4, over what I give at +1,2,3 -- since he hits nadir then or just after that, the LC carbs may keep the BG from totally bottoming out

re - mats - I watched the hairdresser working on hair, for getting it really short, she slid a comb next to skin, snipped or clipped above that so she wouldn't catch skin -- if you have a flea comb or very skinny comb, you could slide that under mat, align scissors above it and parallel to skin, snip, snip .. might that work?

still worried, OCD, newbie, west coast time, I'm often on -- SOME day I'll get back to Farm Town and let the rest of the family members have the computer back too

 

to be clear: dinner time = Preshot meal at PM, about half an hour before shot?

4 pounds? Or is it a typo?

 

Another question:

what size of the can?
If the small ones 2.5 - 3 oz than she needs more, especially to gain weight. Most FF comes in small cans.
Ducia, a petite size indoor only cat (low activity) ate one and half 5.5 oz can of fatty, 180+Kcal/ can a day - split throughout 24 h and gained nicely with time. If Panic goes out (to hunt I presume) she needs even more calories a day than that.
@Panic

 

Ooh that's a really good idea with the haircut suggestion! I wonder if I can get any extra mats out that way.
Hm you're right tho, maybe I should cut back a bit on the larger meals to keep her going longer.

And that is not a typo Tanya, we are REALLY struggling with her weight. She had went from 8ish to 5 lbs shortly before diagnosis and has hovered in the lower 4.1-4.3 area ever since. The scale I have isn't terribly accurate either, it might say she's 5 lbs but then I take her to the vet and she's 4.3. And yes, dinner time is the pre-shot meal!

Her test just now was 318! Safe for 4u?

 

Yes, they're the 3oz cans. So 9oz minimum a day. My vet spoke with a nutritionist about her weight and they ended up recommending (I have a breakdown on the calories per can and what she needs, etc.) 3 cans of 3oz Fancy Feast plus 1/8 cup dry (this was back when she was on DM dry too, it was recommended still because it'd be more calories for her). I ran out of the dry a couple weeks ago, no biggie anyway because she wouldn't eat it.

 

has she eaten alright?
Will she be willing to eat again at +1.5 as you usually feed her?

If yes to both ? - I would shoot - provided that you will be able to test at +2 or +3 and then probably more if numbers go lower.

 

She's almost had half a can of 3oz - just caught the dog eating the other half UGH so had to get out a new can.
I think if I take up food right after the shot and don't offer her any more until +1.5 she might be interested. She's still acting wishy-washy about whether she's hungry or not.

I probably won't get any sleep tonight anyway so testing shouldn't be a problem.

 

If you feed Fancy Feast (FF) which are average about 85Kcal a 3 oz can then =it's 255 a day. It would suffice a non active cat like Ducia and help her to gain but if Panic goes out and burns a lot of calories by hunting or playing or chasing then she'll need more. Probably another 100 Kcal a day. Will she eat more if offered?

 

Excluding today's scenario yes, she'd eat me out of house and home if she could. It's very hot where we live though so when she goes outside she just chills under the cars or porch, she definitely isn't burning any of the calories unless she's bee-lining for the food bowl.

Her NORMAL (pre-diabetic) appetite is more of a grazer though, she always left quite a bit of her meal for later. Maybe take six bites and be done.

 

FF can -- which one, the 3 ouncer or the 5.5 one?

Catcat was emaciated at diagnosis, 10 pounds when "normal" for him would be 14 to 15 -- he's up to about 12.5 now, seems to be holding steady even with "more calories than normal for his weight" -- his two 5.5 ouncers come about 180-220 calories/can, one FF 3 ouncer about 90-100, plus he gets up to 4 dry sardines a day (5 calories/fish) and a good sized pinch of bonito flakes after each test (4 calories per .2 oz) -- plus ~ 1/2 teaspoon extra virgin olive oil twice a day with 1/4 capsule --dumped into food - of turmeric .. he's an indoor/outdoor cat so supposedly 25 calories per target weight (325 if my math is right) -- getting around 400 calories but not getting fat, instead is putting on muscle near backbone, still has a caved-in waist, wanders around our 1-1/3 acre lot plus goes over to neighbors, does some hunting

 

good, I hope she'll gain once the BG is better controlled.
If you feel ok about testing and posting here go ahead. I'll be checking your numbers here.

I like the idea of eating again at +1.5!
You see, it is closer in time to what I think might be her nadir - between +5 and +8, further testing will pin point it better with time. And having "fresh carbs" on board might prevent fast drops and smooth the curve. Solid wet foods take ("average") 30 - 60 min to hit the bloodstream and take an effect on BG. Dry takes longer and stays longer in affecting the BG even when the food itself had left the body.

Make sure you update the SS.
Panic's PMPS 318 @+11 (it is 11 hourse since the last injection, right?).
Good number!

 

Do they make 5.5oz FF cans?

Yeah before she was officially diagnosed my vet commented she didn't have much muscle...my parents both commented they're glad she has long hair because she'd look hideous otherwise with how bony she feels. The vet has the FF cans down as 99/cal a can. I do give her egg yolks every once in a while too, that's what, 70 cal right there? Panic mainly preferred staying outside (we got a new house on our property and she did NOT like the change) but after diagnosis and her learning that all the food was inside, she'd rather sit in the kitchen all day. When I do make her go out she stays near the door lol. She's 11 now, and while my other 11 year old cat will mosey about and occasionally wrestle with the younger cats, Panic just isn't very playful in general. For a long time she would spend all day every day in the front yard under our old convertible, she'd only come out when I told her it was dinnertime xD

---

Yes, I really hope once we get under control she'll start putting that weight back where it belongs! I'm going to bring up Prozinc again with my vet this week.
I will try to get those tests in for you! Panic's been a good sport about all the poking today. I'm going to write all that info about dry/wet food hitting so I can reference it later, that's very helpful.

Yes thank you for the reminder! Gotta stop gabbing and get some work done xD

 

I think it'll be good to change the title as the subject has totally changed.
The short, easy one , something like "Panic 02/06 PMPS 318" should be ok and more up to the moment.

The current weight of 4 lb is IMHO deserves to be included into your signature block.
It might have bearings on dosing.

I am glad you are going to see the vet ,that weight is certainly very worrying. Poor baby!
I do hope she has good cycle and her healing can begin!

 

me too -- I'll be here off and on until roughly 10 pm west coast time, that's +3 for Catcat, and I usually test then to make sure he's not about to dive during the night -- already so short on sleep that I'd not survive an all nighter -- don't like to think of myself as an old lady but I'm more of a stewing hen than a spring chicken (greatgrandmotherhood will do that to you)

 

the pajamas parties are certainly taxing for anyone!
But the good thing is that the intensity relaxes ones onset, nadir and duration are found out.
Beginning is the hardest.

 

would be much easier if Catcat didn't wake us up before 5 AM wanting food !
--that would be +10 and his AMPS is always high (with one startling exception)
in best of all possible worlds, I'd get an AMPS soon after, but hypoglycemic me needs latte (milk with coffee flavoring) to cure the shakes and wake the brain
DH is much more of a morning person -- he goes downstairs and brings it up for me (also brings the vetsulin from the fridge)
I'm lucky to get an AMPS between 6 and 6:30 -- lucky too that Catcat doesn't claw the bathroom cabinet to shreds, trying to reach wall cabinet holding food

 

I think I'm right there with you...I feel exhausted. +2 was 519. Is that a bounce?

 

it could be a bounce or it could be a food bump from her eating earlier.
Did you feed her at +1.5?

 

I did, she ate maybe 1/4 can of 3oz FF?
If it is a bounce maybe I need to feed her sooner than +1.5 ...?

 

No it is not a bounce it the "food bump" - a temporary BG elevation caused by the food eaten at +1.5.
The result shows you how high she goes on this food at this amount. You can use the data for the future.

I apologize - I should have told you to test at +3 instead of +2 if you were going to feed, or to test at +2 if there were no foods between preshot meal and +2. My mistake.

If it was a bounce I would wish you both good night right now. But I am not sure it is a bounce. You can either take a test at +4 - whithout food influence, or you can set an alarm and test at +5 or +6. It is about typical Vetsulin nadir time and you may catch her lower.

ETA: any nightly data is going to be tremendous help.

 

for that matter could be a combination of both -- these are extraordinary circumstances -- not what you'd usually do

can't really give advice, merely tell you what I do -- (in the evening)
between the PS mini meal/treat and the actual meal at shoot time, Catcat gets a reasonable amount of food, say 2/3 to 3/4 of a 5.5 can
then a heaping tablespoon of food at +1 and +2 -- if I feed him more, he'll pig out on it
this is a small enough helping that it doesn't affect the later test greatly -- just slows the fast-acting insulin down a hair

if I could, I would put off the test until +4 but that's pushing 11 pm and I'm tired and shaky, so he gets a slightly bigger helping (1/3 of a FF can or 3-4 tablespoons of a larger can, plus the no-carb treats because that's when I test for the night .. if it's unusually low I know I'll have to follow up later (so far hasn't happened)

from my own experience as tending towards hypoglycemia myself, I know I need to eat some protein about every 3 hours
cats' metabolism is about double mine
so small meals every hour to hour and a half, helps keep the body more stable, less highs, less lows
this also encourages pancreas, if it's functioning at all, to release small amounts of insulin more frequently
may "train" the liver not to dump scads of glycogen in as a "lifesaving" measure, if the BG is more stable
(that's what a bounce is, the liver is pulling stored glucose out and dumping into bloodstream) == simplifying it but that's what we understand)

and as you can see from the spreadsheet, I'm still chasing the correct dose -- enough that he gets into the lower blues if possible, not so much that he hits nadir in the middle greens (at least for now) -- maybe later we can lead him towards more green, less blue, only occasional yellow

and I'm at +4 -- actually a few minutes late, gotta do the test, then because Im having trouble keeping eyes from drifting shut, I will leave with the very best of wishes

 

Does food really bump that high? Wow. It's okay, no worries, we learned about the food increase at least.

Candy, if/when you have time, would you be willing to give a breakdown of meal-times and amounts you do for Catcat since he's also on Vetsulin? I'm always unsure about snack times and there don't seem to be too many others here on such a harsh insulin.

I think I'm just going to call it a night...we're both pretty beat, rough day for us both. Thanks you two for checking in on us so late.

 

it could be food bump plus bounce beginning. But yes, some cats do get high food spikes.

318 the PMPS is Pink on AlphaTrack but Relion would give you high Yellow, which is nice but also the lowest as of late number, lower than the majority of recent numbers. Panic could be bouncing from that, as she perceives it, "low" number. She'll get past and won;t bounce as bad with time. Ducia did.

If you are tired of course then do go to bed.
It's only if you are not sleeping around +4 - +6 by a chance take a quick test - it'll tell much more about the dose.