Catcat's AMPS = 184 = I blew it

another cycle like the one last month, I have a no-shoot AMPS

would not be so bad, but after the fight and stress yesterday, I gave him a couple of tablespoons of food to get the ear prick -- then without thinking, gave him his treat, a tablespoon of MeowMix Tender Favorites, the seafood one that's LC

my guess, if I wait to give him his insulin until about +2 (testing at least once or twice before then), that things will be going well

last time several people suggested that perhaps his pancreas was at last "sputtering" -- either that or he dropped more severely during the night than I thought he would, based on the bedtime +3

your thoughts?

 

HMMMM! Pancreas sputters are certainly a possibility but hard to tell for sure. Pancreas is still working to a degree in our kitties but nearly well enough so until you start seeing a more continuous improvement in numbers, it's anybody's guess. Catcat was down last night at +3 but not significantly. I think a bounce from the night before is clearing and you are now seeing the truer result of the higher dose.
If you test Catcat again, and shoot 2 hours late today, how is that going to affect your schedule going forward? Now that we've got a blue back in the picture, I'd want to be sure to get that before bed test in to make sure Catcat isn't on a mission during the night.

 

1-1/4 hours later, meter reads 214 -- shoot? shoot with reduced dose? (insulin lasts only 9-10 hours usually)

if I shot at normal time, that would be +3/4

 

If you can monitor today and have supplies, I'd give Catcat the 1u. You want to get him into good healing numbers and keep him there as much as possible. Check again 2 hours post shot for starters.

 

was hoping you might say that, it's what I hoped to do, but defer to those who've been at it awhile and understand some of the workings

will be home all day as far as I know (just a quick trip back to hangar to feed barncats) --

have can of TwinPet (includes brewers rice, guar gum), can of Friskies turkey/cheese dinner with gravy, have Temptations treats (IMHO good way to give small doses of HC food), have honey, Karo syrup, real maple syrup, brown sugar (to smear on paw, easier than giving by mouth)

 

Sounds like the kitty pantry is full. Lots of strips/lancets too I hope! Chances are good Catcat will start rising and won't need any extra attention (might bounce from that blue) but better to be prepared for any event 'cause they love to surprise us.

 

oh damn! he jerked (unusual on injection) -- might have been a fur shot, hard to tell if slightly damp fur is insulin or the sweat falling off my face or the dampness of my fingers (since cancer surgery, I've discovered sweat glands in places I never knew I had any)

 

lots and lots of lancets -- Kaiser doctor prescribed insulin testing for DH, several times over the years, plus I picked up more supplies from others who no longer needed them -- lots of strips too since I got some from Mialia, also when I read they were discontinuing my favorite meter and its strips, I ordered as many from Walmart online as I could -- really NEED that small amt of blood, as it is I get E-7 (not enuf) errors about every fourth or fifth try -- except for the contretemps yesterday

ETA -- looks like Arkray, the original mfg (Walmart just rebranded them) is still selling the strips for their Glucocard 01 = ReliOn Confirm/Micro -- and selling them in bulk, probably to clear out their warehouse

 

what I'm short of, is U-40 syringes -- have been promised some but they haven't yet arrived, haven't even heard if they are under way

I do have some U-100s -- one batch lovely half-unit marked -- one batch ReliOns from Walmart -- they're .3cc ones but NOT half unit markings, are designed for 50-unit dosing, not 30, so unit markings only

 

Well if it was a fur shot, you'll know soon enough. Happens to all of us from time to time so don't sweat it (no pun intended)!
I always try to confirm supplies because I've seen situations where kitty is running low and caregiver is chasing their BG with food and they suddenly say "I only have 2 strips left". YIKES! You're obviously well supplied.
Too bad about the syringes but the half unit marked U100s can be used if need be although it would be nice to keep those for when and if you want/need to be able finesse doses more. The 50 unit syringes are generally pretty useless unless you happen to have a cat on copious amounts of insulin.

 

will go check -- but memory suggests that 1u U-40 = 2.5u U-100 -- which would be possible to measure -- not only eyeballing it (with my extrastrong pair of reading glasses), but I also have digital caliper, could get myself up to speed on that, still have 3-1/2 days until I run out of U-40s

maybe the member who posted in supply closet and told me she would ship her unwanted syringes, will see the messages I've left for her, and get on with it, I know there are things going on there in Real Life (nondiabetic) but it's been awhile ...

hoping the vet can schedule Catcat in for a dental procedure this coming week too -- that could change the ground rules

 

Sometimes dentals have an extraordinary effect while other times not that much. I had a dental done on my girl and hoped it might be our magic bullet but it did squat. But then my girl has IAA (Insulin Auto Antibodies), a high dose condition that often accompanies another high dose condition but occurs pretty rarely on its own and I didn't find that out until after the dental. Had I known about the IAA, I wouldn't have had such high expectations. Of course it depends too on whether it's just a cleaning or extractions are needed due to more extensive inflammation/infection.

You're right about the conversion but easier to just use this conversion chart than doing the math. http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm

 

vet suggested extractions might be necessary, wouldn't know until she (or one of the other vets in the practice) got in there and cleaned, examined, maybe x-rayed, wish my Delta Dental coverage extended to Catcat ! -- but vet said she could take payments for additional work beyond cleaning, if necessary

one of my own molars lost a chunk last week, but it doesn't hurt, has been root-canaled so may be crown that crumbled, not tooth -- my wonderful dentist has started using gold crowns instead of ceramic or polymer, amazingly enough he says they're both less expensive and more durable -- this in Hawaii where usual diet is a bit different from that on mainland

 

Hope it's just the crown that broke on your tooth! At least you know you won't have to choose the type of crown for Catcat's teeth! Vet sounds very reasonable. SO many of them are not that good about making payments over time.

 

fairly new practice, in a small rural town mini strip mall, therefore lower overhead; not as busy so everyone there has time to smile, do good work, keep place remarkably clean and free of any odor -- aware of budget restrictions on many as a lot of their clientele comes from nearby military base or from small farmers doing their best

 

https://horsecart.vet/about/

scroll down -- Dr Bauman -- "who loves feline medicine and geriatric pets"

it shows

 

Looks like a great veterinary clinic. Some of their mission statement sounds similar to what my vet has on her site. My vet admits freely she hates discussing fees with her human clients and she always provides multiple options if possible and keeps her costs down despite providing what I consider to be stellar care. She and her associates work with you as a partner rather than as a dictator and they don't seem to be afraid to say they don't know and will have to do some research and then they carry through. I had used the same vet for over 30 years when he suddenly passed away. The interim vet who kept the practice open was great but then it got bought by some woman who had her young son (maybe 12 to 14 yrs old) at the reception desk and she turned what originally had been like a small town vet's office into what looked like a very scary third world country clinic. Took my kitties once for their annuals and never went back. Found current vet who had extremely high ratings and was a stone's throw away from home on RateYourVet and tried them out. The reviews I'd found there all proved to be spot on much to my surprise. I consider myself extremely lucky on the vet front too!

 

+5 = 174

he was happy to get a teaspoon of his favorite MeowMix salmon.crab, well watered down, with bonito flakes as a treat - chaser

may have passed nadir, may still drop a little, but high enough that we can all sigh and rest til PMPS

 

Nice blue. Gives you an idea of his nadir for today and it's not bad. Hopefully we'll see more of those blues and maybe even a nice dark green soon!

 

cats !!! just tested, in reality it is +10 but I was hoping it would be PMPS

(Catcat), being contrary, decided to throw a 122 ...

late nadir? double bounce? reaction to previous bounce? a clue to the dose to head towards regulated BG?

-- could be any of those or none --

 

See other thread! Best to only keep one thread going once a response is received. I'm getting confused as to what I've seen/replied to!

 

yeah, I'm confused too -- but have some people following on only one forum --

PMPS = 153 (+12.5 since morning shot) -- skipping dose

tomorrow it will be different

 

Wow! I think perhaps we should look at lowering your no shot reading. Not to 153 yet but maybe to 180? He's not getting sharp or fast drops as is so common with Vetsulin so I think you'd be safe to shoot a lower pre-shot so long as monitoring was possible. Obviously going into a night cycle is not the time to start experimenting unless you're in the mood for a pyjama party.
He had a lovely day today!
Back to the Handmaid's Tale and then off to bed for me. Sweet dreams!

 

up to this point what I'm seeing frequently, is a drop of about 100 from shot to +2 or +3, and an additional drop of 50 to +4 or nadir

however lately for whatever reason, he's been showing a somewhat flatter curve

almost looks like I might have done an intradermal shot now and then, and it's acted like Lantus does, releasing over a much longer period of time?

could be wrong -- could have been fur shots, could have been Murphy messing with things

not only ECID -- every cat is different every day

am going to be cautious, though, since last time it looked like a dosage decrease was warranted --- it WASN'T -- or at least it resulted in numbers all over the place

nighty night now, it's been a crazy day and I'm beat --- best to all

 

I'm liking those greens I see on the 18th. Yes you might have overdone the food a bit but getting a green like that makes one jump to attention! . We've all done the over compensate thing. Maybe next time, try some medium or high carb wet food to bump BG up before heading for the Temptations! Use the Temptations if Catcat's BG is being stubborn about coming up a bit.

Just wish we could get those pre-shots down a bit more but I think that is a duration issue more than a dose issue. When in the cycle do you typically feed Catcat? I'm wondering if we can slow him down in the early part of the cycle, hopefully extending the cycle a bit with a slight alteration of food/snack times. That 67 is a tad lower than we typically want kitty going on Vetsulin so I don't like the idea of even a tiny dose increase right now for safety reasons.

 

absolutely agree

gave him only ONE Temptation (supposedly 2 calories), along with stewed chicken which should be very low carb, and his usual LC pate -- I think I erred more in quantity of food which kept him busy for quite a while -- while the Temptation variety I have includes catnip, probably revving his metabolism -- he does go crazy for catnip

for food, he gets a heaping tablespoon of LC at AMPS and PMPS, mushed up with enough water so he can lick and slurp rather than gobble; I CAN get a test without feeding him, but it usually devolves into a fight, and multiple ear sticks and "not-enough-blood" error messages on meter -- I hate to waste test strips
plus a treat -- pinch of bonito flakes, sometimes a dry sardine too, occasionally a spoonful of MeowMix tender favorites seafood (LC)

shot time, half an hour later, he gets about 3/4 of a can of LC pate with a dribble of extra virgin olive oil (for his skin)
(his cat acne has cleared up, at least the swelling has gone down, no more oozes, so I discontinued the turmeric and pepper I was giving)

about +1.5 another heaping tablespoonful of LC pate

next test could come at +3 or +4 -- I base that mostly on what he scored at AMPS, if pushing 300 I go for +4, if below 250 I may check at +2 or +3; whatever, I give same food and treat as I did Preshot

usually one more tablespoon of LC food at +6, after I'm sure he's hit nadir and is on the way up, then no more food until PMPS

night time test at +3 -- usual at-test food, then depending on how it scores (if I think I will have to retest later because it's low), more food -- about the same amount I would give at shot time, since he won't get any more food til AMPS; no tests at o-dark-thirty so far, I'm old, I need my sleep

all told, he's getting around 400 calories a day, optimum for nondiabetic cat at his normal weight would be around 300 calories, he's gaining slowly, flanks still more hollow than they could be, still hungry and searching for food all the time, has left food in the bowl only twice (when he got around 8 ounces of food to last him all night)

 

What's the carb % in his LC food?

 

4Health chicken/whitefish = 0
4Health turkey/giblets = 1
Blue Wilderness chicken, turkey, salmon = all 3
Friskies turkey, mixed grill =5
Friskies poultry platter =4
Meow Mix TF salmon/crab = 3
Meow Mix TF tuna/shrimp = 2

(all per Dr Pierson's list ... Friskies includes rice, BW includes potato, 4Health includes egg, MM none of those)

 

oh, at moment don't have any Fancy Feast, was going to order some from Chewy before their $15 discount runs out, but have had other things on my mind--
standard classic pates -- turkey/giblets, liver/chicken, beef/chicken .. the "green box" assortment Panic's mom referred to
carb % = 2, 2, and 3

on occasion get canned catfood at food bank, Weruva CIK Isla Bonita, Newman's Own organic, Nature's Variety Instinct -- always check to see if they fit the profile

 

Ok so keep track of what you feed him on the spreadsheet. Some cats do better on really low carbs like 0 to 3 % while others seem to do better with a bit more carb up to 6% preferably. Just wondering if Catcat might be dropping better on some foods than others. What did he eat yesterday when he went and dipped his paws in the lagoon?

 

Friskies poultry platter the previous night, 4Health turkey plus home stewed chicken for breakfast, BW salmon for lunch plus more chicken -- he doesn't drop as drastically eating Friskies which is why I feed him that at night, but that also keeps him at higher numbers overall then -- that's why you see so many yellows at +3 on the night cycle, my way of trying to ensure no hypos overnight .. he doesn't get any food after generous "mug up" at +3, unless he leaves some in bowl, has happened only twice so far, when I thought there was less left in the big can, than there actually was

if I ever get out of this exhaustion/tiredness cycle, I might get a test occasionally, later at night .. I do usually stumble to the commode then, once or twice, but too fuzzy to test plus Catcat is sleeping downstairs with adult son and dog anyway, usually