Changing from vetsulin this weekend

Not sure if it's appropriate for me to cross-post, moderators please delete/move if not.

I was caught off-guard and am changing my cat over this weekend to Humulin N from vetsulin ... full details here
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/view ... =3&t=12272

If anyone is lurking this late, I'd appreciate the input.

//Levii

 

Both insulins have a duration, in most cats, of around 4 to 7 hours. So as far as duration and gentleness go, you won't see any particular improvement. Sorry to say.

You will however notice that the Humulin N is more concentrated (U-100 instead of U-40) and so the apparent dose size will be smaller. You should not use the same syringes unless you are very very aware of how to do the unit conversion math.

It would be really nice if you could find a way to investigate how to get your vet to prescribe a gentler, longer-lasting insulin for your cat though. Neither Vetsulin nor Humulin N is likely to have a full reliable 12-hour effect, nor to be able to keep blood sugar within a comfortable range all day.

The reasons for this have nothing to do with brand names, or amino acids being similar/different from cat's own insulin (a commonly cited but irrelevant detail). They have everything to do with action profile -- the onset, peak, and duration of the insulin's effect. Read up more and see:

http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Duration
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Onset
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Peak

 

Hows kitty doing?

I agree with Steve.
We were on Caninsulin (aka Vetsulin) the switch to Levemir (long acting) was amazing and Lucky was beautifully regulated in no time!

 

Hi, I'm new to the board but in the same boat as you. Our cat, Tahoe, is getting vetsulin 2xdaily, 8.8 units each time. We have never used an insulin that gave good results with just one dose per day.

Do you find you use less Levemir (since it is u100)? Do you dose just once a day or more often?

I've also heard of an insulin called NPH. Anyone familiar with that?

Ok, if I'm thread hijacking, let me know. Since there was a vetsulin thread going it seemed logical to post in it, but I don't want to hijack either.

 

Jangell2

Hi and welcome to FDMB :mrgreen:

You are indeed as you say 'threadhijacking' but not to worry.
I would suggest you go to the 'health' forum and post. Only reason is because hardly anyone checks this forum now. This is for a number of reasons, not least that in USA the 'Health authority for medicines-sorry can't remember it's name' has advised along with the manufacturers that people should stop using Vetsulin for the foreseeable future.
If you look at the top of this forum you will see 'stickies'. One of these explains why people should be transitioning their cats to other insulins.

As you refer to vetsulin (aka Caninsulin in Europe) I'm assuming your in USA or Canada.

8.8u of insulin twice daily is extremely high. Cats on this sort of amount are often up and down on their amounts and have conditions such as Acromegaly (insulin intolerance).

Again, if you go to health-but the non-essential part of it, I think that is where there is guidance for setting up a profile. This information helps people who want to help you offer the right advice for your cat and circumstances.

Some basics-how long since Tahoe was diagnosed?
How did you get to 8.8u (and is this using u40 syringes or u100?)
What food do you currently give Tahoe?
Do you test for keytones?

Do you hometest?


As for using Levemir, both it and Lantus have been shown to have the overall best results for getting cats into remission (diet controlled)People using both insulins post in the Lantus forum and there is pretty much 1 or more cats each week coming off the juice (off insulin)
I would say overall I used less insulin using Levemir than Caninsulin, but both were small amounts.Due to Levemir longevity being longer than Lantus and vetsulin (50+ days) alot of cats with acromegaly (on large amounts of insulin) use this insulin.
You still dose twice daily with all the various insulins used here. I have heard of NPH but don't really know much about it. If you surf this board you will come across other users (cam also mention in your health post if you do one)
Please keep asking questions. The ethos of this board is start slow and go low and we all pay forward what we have learned.
Good luck

 

Re: Jangell2

Tahoe was less than one year when diagnosed and is now about 8 years of age.
The 8.8u if based on u40 dosage. I use u100 syringes because they are better quality. I convert the dosage by multiplying by 2.5 and come up with 22u with the u100 syrings.
She is eating Science Diet Dry W/D.
I don't know what keytones are.
We don't hometest.

I have to admit that I can't imagine Tahoe letting me take blood from her on a daily basis. She's not thrilled with the shots as it is.

 

NPH is the generic name for insulins like Humulin N, Novolin N, and similar. (It stands for Neutral Protein Hagedorn, after the inventor, Bob Neutral.)

So anything we say about Humulin N here (like that it works too fast, causes too steep a blood sugar drop, and for too short a time for cats), is true about NPH as well. Tons of info here http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/NPH

 

Wow!

It is extremely rare for a cat of such a young age to be diagnosed with diabetes.
I really don't like the dose your giving, but without any blood glucose readings it's hard to offer advice.

Have you heard of symogi rebound?
This in essence is a cat reciving too much insulin, cat body response is to flood it's body with glucose. Get another high bg reading (or fructosamine test) and increase insulin. Same hapens again and so dose increased again. Becomes a vicious cycle.

Can you give any fructosamine test results? There not brill but may give some info.

You'd be surprised what kittys will tolerate. Lucky was seriously fractious. Took me a matter of days for her to happily (99% of the time! :lol: ) accept ear testing and it became cuch time.

Another thing you can do is buy the keto diastix-they are sticks you put under kitty's pee stream. Colour coded and test for keytones and give a guide as to how much glucose kitty is excreting from bloodstream.

Can you remember how kitty came to be diagnosed with diabetes?
Any other health issues?

Levemir sounds a better option and would keep your costs down. Looking at your furriesorg link I'm guessing USA/Canada?

Hills is poor food and dry even poorer.
If you go to the other health section (non-essential) I think that is where the link is for food charts and will tell you exactly how many carbs are in it.
Alot of folks give Fancy Feast/Evo. Much cheaper and actuially better foods for cats!
However, because they are much lower in carnbs this can affect how much insulin a cat needs because not as much glucose is being released.

Really need a lot more info for people to really give any sound advice that won't put kitty at risk.
Does your vet have good knowledge of Feline diabetes?
Hometesting really is the best way to monitor your cat and ensure they get the right amount of insulin whislt being safe. It honestly isn't as difficult to do as it may sound.