Checking in on Oreo's meds and syringe feedings

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Bonnie & Oreo Joe, Jan 5, 2018.

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  1. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    We are doing better in feeding 32 to 40 cc's 4 times a day.
    Thus no insulin - He is spending hours curled up on a thin blanket on a small wooden step stool by the refrigerator. That has been his go to spot when I was in the kitchen and he would get a bit of raw chicken.
    I have tried small chopped chicken to pureed but no deal. He has some zip in him as he would lay on my lap and watch my hand and when it was just resting or when I wasn't typing he would suddenly try and bite me. He did that yesterday! He now stops by his water fountain and looks in then by his little dab of food and puts his nose right down just before it touches and then leaves. That is new since yesterday. We are finished with the morphine this pm.
    The Mirtazapin Alternova I will only use 3 more times tomorrow and then 2 doses after the 3 days between. Cerenia 1/4 tab daily until he eats again. I need hubby to hold his head and I hold his burritoed body and pry his mouth open and pop the pill and a water chaser. I can't picture doing that forever! If the other meds haven't helped by now, do I continue as was ordered until he eats?
    Mirtazapin Alternova 15 mg tab 1/4 tab every 3 days for max of 10 days.

    Cerenia 16mg and broken to 1/4 tab once a day until he starts to eat.

    Buprenorphine I got 10 oral syringes that I am to give 3 a day 10 - 4- 10

    Since I myself am sick every single thing I do causes pain. I will not give up on Oreo.
    Oh I now feed and pill him in a spot I never sit in it is better with feeding. Pilling is never going to be better!!
     
  2. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi Bonnie,

    I am so pleased to hear that you're managing to get Oreo Joe to eat a bit more for you and that you're managing better with giving pills. Especially considering all your own health difficulties, you are such a good mama and Oreo Joe is so lucky you're his person! (((Bonnie)))

    Sorry to sound like a broken record but my best suggestion to you today is to call the vet again and ask for a prescription for ondansetron. It may work better for Oreo Joe than the Cerenia and it does reduce nausea symptoms much more than mirtazapine alone. I'm posting the link to the IDEXX pancreatitis treatment guidelines again below:

    IDEXX Treatment Guidelines

    It might help you to show your vet this document because it does list ondansetron as a very good medication for treating cat nausea and it may very well help Oreo Joe more than the Cerenia. Dose for a 10lb cat is 1-2 mg every 8-12 hours to a maximum of 4mg per day. Many of us here find that starting out with 2mg ondansetron every 12 hours works better to help the kitty start eating more. Again, if your vet doesn't carry ondansetron themselves, it's a human medication and your vet should be able to give you a written prescription for you to fill at a regular pharmacy. Anti-nausea treatment may need to continue for a few weeks until the kitty is eating well again on its own.

    Also, if Oreo Joe backslides a bit eating-wise without the pain relief then ask your vet for a repeat prescription for buprenorphine.

    Keeping everything crossed for your dear boy. Sending more healing vibes and :bighug::bighug::bighug:.


    Mogs
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  3. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    In a search on line for buying it in Sweden it doesn't show up. I can call our vet on Monday morning. He acts better. He moves faster, he isn't shaking his paw when he smells the food. I can't decide if he is nauseated and I don't think he would be in pain now with the morphine. He is no longer curled up in teeny ball, although as is normal for him he loves laying on my lap when it is cold out like now, when I have the electric lap blanket. If it wasn't for him not eating we would think he was fairly well. Of course without his hypothyroid med his dandruff is really bad. His fur had been unkempt a few days ago, greasy looking and when combed I got hands full of fur. Well I just talked myself into believing my husband that Oreo was much better. hmmmm After I talk to our vet and not one of the others like I have for a week. I will check back here before I do anything. Thanks and hope you are well today!
     
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  4. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Maybe he has less interest in the fountain because he's been getting more water/liquids from syringe feeding. Sorry, I'm not there to see exactly what's in his syringe. Is all his nutrition coming from syringe feeding?
    This is a quote from Google concerning the use of feline buprenorphine.
    "Cats generally have a poor tolerance for opioids. One major reason is the drugs' power and effects on our small feline friends. Aside from masking pain, opioids also affect and slow down respiration." The rest of the article explains why BUPE is a better choice for this kind of pain.
    This is a little personal. I have some long term pain which can only be managed with opioids. Taking them away suddenly no matter how small the dose is unhealthy both physically and mentally. Cats and dogs are quite stoic about pain and can sometimes suffer in silence. You don't want to turn Oreo Joe into a drug addict but it's important one drug is replaced by another and then reduce the dosage slowly over time. (sorry for stating the obvious) Noah is a long term transdermal BUPE user due to dental issues; no effect on appetite, water, numbers, vision or any concern with stairs. If you experience any problems with the oral BUPE tag me for specifics. Noah gets his transdermal paste (ears) made by a compounding pharmacy. That's all I can contribute, hope the little man is feeling better soon.:bighug:
     
  5. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    I read it was like morphine but for cats. I couldn't come up with a name so wrote morphine.
    Buprenorphine I got 10 oral syringes that I am to give 3 a day 10 - 4.
    Up until yesterday he was getting some water in his pate' food to make it a bit more soupy. Then I started with just his food hoping it would have a stronger taste of what he normally loves. I have given him a bit of water by syringe but not enough. He can't get more in his tummy after the feeding. He has always been a grazer wanting food when he wants a few bites at a time. I don't know if I can add water feedings in between his other feedings. I can barely pick him up and carry him to the other room and wrap him etc for water. I can barely do the 4 trips. Was so hoping he would at least think the water was a good idea, The Bupe has been used up the vet gave 4 days worth. Now I feed him and go to bed. Thank you!!
     
  6. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    It's OK to syringe water between feedings if a kitty is not getting enough fluids. Remember to syringe the water a little at a time, and from side to side across the tongue.

    You can check hydration in the following ways:

    1. Pull the scruff of the neck up into a tent. It should return to normal straight away. If the scruff stays tented or is very slow to return to normal position it indicates dehydration.

    2. Check the kitty's gums. If they are tacky (slightly sticky) to the touch then this is also a sign of dehydration.

    :bighug:


    Mogs
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    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  7. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    how to check a cat for hydration
    hur man kontrollerar en katt för hydrering

    hope you are feeling better
    hoppas du mår batter

    Good luck in the World Junior Men's hockey game but we know Canada will win! :)
    Lycka till i World Junior Men's hockey spel men vi vet att Kanada kommer att vinna! :(

     
  8. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Credit due.... That would not have occurred to me if not for Mogs. Thanks.
     
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  9. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Whooo hoooo! At 5 AM Oreo was drinking at the fountain! He showed interest in his food dish but finally turned away. He got 2 syringe feedings at 8 and 12:30 of 36 cc each time. At 2 PM he jumped up on my lap for a scratch and cuddle and I automatically held out a Temptation size treat and he ate it. He munched his way through about 30 of them. I am heading for kitchen duty and will try his chicken treat lucky have some thawed for us. I will give him his appetite pill but do I keep syringe feeding until he is eating normally?? Glucose was 3.5 APS - I would guess dry treats have raised it some but will test a bit later. Will be back to see what you say. Thanks
     
  10. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    Yay! So happy to hear things are looking up!!!! :woot:

    Yes, until he's eating normally, you'll want to keep supplementing with the syringing. It sounds like he's still feeling some nausea (turning away from the bowl), so definitely call the vet about the ondansetron on Monday-- he may need that for a while.

    Another possibility might be a food aversion. Sometimes cats will associate whatever food they were offered (or syringe-fed) when they were feeling yucky with the feeling yucky, and avoid that food. If he gets to the point where he really seems like he wants to eat a full meal (scarfing down the treats enthusiastically, etc.) but still turning away from the regular food, you can try a different variety/flavor and see if he goes for that. But be cautious while he's still showing signs of feeling ill-- they can develop multiple aversions just as easily as one :banghead: , so don't offer the full repertoire all at once!

    It does sound like he's feeling lots better though-- yay!!!!!
     
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  11. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Such an encouraging update, Bonnie! :cat:

    You will need to provide continued support for Oreo Joe until he is eating well and regularly under his own steam. I know I keep harping on about ondansetron but, with Oreo Joe showing more interest in eating by himself, treatment with ondansetron could really help get him over the hump. I'm also mindful of your own health difficulties, Bonnie, and if the ondansetron could get your boy eating without the need to syringe his food it would be a lot less psychologically stressful for both of you, and would give you more of the rest you yourself so badly need. I sincerely hope you'll give serious consideration to asking your vet to try the ondansetron treatment for Oreo Joe - and that your vet will be amenable to your request. Ondansetron saved my cat's life - and the lives of many other kitties here when they've had difficulty eating.

    Be sure to keep monitoring urine for ketones as a precaution.

    Fingers and paws crossed for steady progress.

    :bighug:


    Mogs
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  12. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    I will call the vet on Monday. This is a holiday weekend again but things are open Monday. Oreo is now going to his food dish with pieces of beef in sauce. Something bought by mistake. Not a lot but 2 times he ate when I stood him by it and just now he hopped off my lap and went for a couple small bites and a drink at the fountain and then to the litter box. When I google the Ondansetron I don't see it on any Swedish site. But I will see. It was a huge blessing when I saw him drink and once I was told he could blame his regular food for being sick I went to my emergency, whoops bought the wrong food. Roger will buy some of the stuff with sauce. Also hope he will go back to his old food. The same food comes in a tetra box, like little juice boxes for kids. I lasts a day if he is eating light and is $1.83 each. The cans are 600 gm and cost the same and last 2 days and usually a bit for the 3rd morning breakfast. But I have 12 dollars left for January so might as well use that, will make my purse lighter lol I am so happy that you all are helping me.
     
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  13. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Ondansetron is a human medication (often used for nausea management when people are receiving chemotherapy). I suggest perhaps ringing round your local pharmacies to ask if they stock generic ondansetron, or if they could order it in for you. Then all you'd have to do is get a written prescription from the vet and the local pharmacy would be able to fill it for you. (Note: The branded version, Zofran, is about ten times more expensive than the generic in the UK so I assume it would be similarly pricey in Sweden.)

    Way to go, Oreo Joe! :cat:


    Mogs
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  14. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    I will have to see the cost. We have been hit with so many things in the last month we will soon need to take out another mortgage. Is it possible that the Cerenia 16mg and broken to 1/4 tab once a day until he starts to eat. Would keep on working? Just keep him on it longer than Dr ordered?
    He is laying here so smug looking!! I will of course do what I have to for him, he is as close as I will ever get as a therapy cat! I just don't have any place to get money when we run out.
     
  15. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I understand the money worries only too well, Bonnie. :bighug:

    I've no idea how expensive medications are in Sweden but, to give you a guide, in the UK it costs about £90-100 for 30 Zofran tablets BUT I can get 30 ondansetron tablets for less than £10 (HUGE difference!). Our vet charges about £7 or £8 for the written prescription.

    Now, that I can't help you with since my kitties have only ever received one-off Cerenia injections. All I can suggest is that you give the vet a phone call and ask how long you can continue the Cerenia treatment. It may just do the job needed. However, other members might be able to give you more info. (@Carol & Murphy - have you given Cerenia long term?).

    The only general advice I can give here is that even when a kitty starts to eat on its own again it's important not to be complacent when it comes to monitoring the cat's clinical signs for any return of nausea symptoms or fall-off in appetite. If clinical signs reappear/worsen then it's important to reinstate anti-nausea support straight away to help prevent the cat from becoming inappetent again. Needless to say, one needs to keep the vet abreast of developments and, if necessary, bring the kitty to the vet for a check-up.


    Mogs
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    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  16. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    Hee! Sounds like he's feeling a bit better!

    I hope he continues to improve on the eating and drinking, and that the vet can provide some affordable meds to keep on-hand. I agree that prevention/vigilance is best when dealing with a cat who is recovering from a bout of extreme inappetance-- they can backslide so easily. I'm also not sure on cutting down the Cerenia dose, hope someone who knows can chime in.
     
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  17. Carol & Murphy

    Carol & Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Aug 9, 2015
    That's how I do the cerenia - cut the 16 mg pills into 4, and give one each day. Murphy is on cerenia each and every day. 4 mg maintenance, and 8 mg if he is having a flare. Once in a while, if he is having a good streak, I will skip a day. Of all his meds, cerenia is the most important to keep his pancreatitis/IBD at bay. The dose lasts for 24 hours, then is gone. Old school thinking is that you had to skip a day after giving cerenia for several days in a row, but many vets say that is no longer necessary.
     
  18. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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  19. Carol & Murphy

    Carol & Murphy Well-Known Member

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    How you doing, Mogs?
     
  20. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sore. Exhausted. Lonely ... (((Saoirse)))

    How are things with you and Murph?

    .
     
  21. Carol & Murphy

    Carol & Murphy Well-Known Member

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    He's doing just okay - not great.
    What about your other cat?
    (Bonnie - sorry to hijack your thread) -
     
  22. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Maybe try tempting Oreo with water from a tuna can.
     
  23. Carol & Murphy

    Carol & Murphy Well-Known Member

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    To save money, I've even thought of getting the 32 mg cerenia pills, and cutting them into 1/8s, or 1/4 during flare time
     
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  24. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    That sounds very familiar ... :bighug::bighug::bighug:

    I'll PM you with an update.


    Mogs
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  25. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    He has always refused any people food, all fish cat food or human and really for the last 3½ years has refused anything but chicken or turkey pate'. He has been having a bm every other day but this AM was day 3 and he is not happy eating although I see he took a nibble of his pieces of beef in sauce. He has been in and out of the litter box with only some good sized urine clumps. At the water fountain again. I gave him ½ tsp of Miralax, split into 3 parts for his syringe feedings. He has had 2 so hope it will work good this pm or during the night.
     
  26. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi Bonnie,

    [Emphasis mine]

    That's getting to be too long without a bowel movement.


    Posture of a cat urinating:

    [​IMG]

    Note how the cat's rear end is lowered and hind legs are slightly behind the rest of the body.


    Compare the above to the posture of a cat trying to pass a bowel motion:

    [​IMG]

    Note how the cat's rear end is more elevated and hind legs are positioned under the cat's body.

    If Oreo Joe is adopting the second posture when he's in the litter box but is not passing any stools he may be quite constipated. Also, if he passes any watery diarrhoea but no solid bowel motion this may also be a sign that he's badly constipated (and he may vomit - especially if he strains and can't pass anything).

    If Oreo can't pass any stools please, please take him to the vet's tomorrow for a physical examination to make sure his bowel is not obstructed and that he doesn't have impacted faeces in his bowel. If yes, then the vet may need to give him an enema or do something else to clear the bowel.

    SAFETY NOTE: Until you sort out the constipation giving a laxative like Miralax could make things worse (like building pressure behind a dam). From felineconstipation.org:

    If Oreo Joe is constipated that could make him nauseated and not be able to eat. If your vet thinks that Oreo is not obstructed and the constipation is due to a motility problem then a few doses of metoclopramide (aka Reglan - generic should be available at human pharmacies) can speed gastric emptying and help restore normal gut motility. NB: Metoclopramide is NOT suitable for nausea treatment in cats, but by helping restore normal bowel function it may help reduce nausea problems related to constipation problems.

    If Oreo Joe were my cat I'd want him to be seen by a vet ASAP.

    Be sure to keep us updated with developments. :bighug:


    Mogs
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    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
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  27. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Mogs-- constipation can be resolved simply, or it can lead to very very serious problems. Hopefully Oreo Joe will poop soon, but if not, a quick once-over by the vet is in order.
     
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  28. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    Nothing during the night. Vet called when they opened and our vet was there. She walked me threw feeling his stomach etc all the while he wanted to groom!! She then said she would call back. She had the other vets in a consult and it was decided that she will drop off a liquid paraffin (the only treatment here and it coats the stomach and slips around the stool and hopefully slides it out). She will drop it off at a gas station about 15 minutes drive from here and save the long drive to pick it up. She is giving us 100 mg and save us driving to town and buying a ½ liter. 15 mg 2 times today and after he is going give him miralax daily. He got more water in the puree and he acts normal. He now doesn't avoid the syringe and I rarely need to hold his head. His fur is shiny his gums pink and moist. He heard my medicine bottle rattle and was awake immediately:bighug: and I tried his treats and he scarfed several down. He has 2 tsp of the new food in a bowl.
     
  29. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    This all sounds really really good. Yay for Oreo Joe!!! :)

    Keeping paws crossed on the poop issue. I don't know anything about the liquid paraffin treatment, but it sounds like a good conservative approach to the situation. The fact that he sounds like he's feeling pretty good currently makes me quite hopeful that this is a very temporary problem that will soon be resolved.
     
  30. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    I have been losing hope today. Still nothing, he is peeing once or twice a day and I have seen him at the water fountain but he doesn't even look at the little bit of food I put out he walks by like it isn't there and that was what he had nibbled on a couple of times. He was looking so good yesterday and even early this morning. Of course his spitting out about 3 cc of paraffin oil and it makes him look like he has greased up his white tuxedo doesn't help. But he has only been to the litter to apparently go poop 2 times today. I have been feeding him but the oil coats his stomach so the food will pass through and he gets no nutrition. He is looking sad and he sat in the middle of my lap and stared at me and then closed his eyes and sat there. It was a long time but finally laid down and cuddled close. I am losing him! The vet said that they felt that he would poop by this evening and keep hopeful. But she said if the bm was low down it would come out but high up there was nothing they could do that he would make it through or that we wouldn't need to mortgage the house. Apparently this oil was a hail Mary that they are successful with at times.
    He is due for another feeding of just plain puree but he really fought that today and I stopped at 23 cc. I am shoving food in the front and nothing is coming out the back. Then he is due for another 15 ml of oil again at 8. I am alone and crying and holding my baby and begging and praying. He doesn't deserve this. Abandoned in the woods, when he was a baby, in a cage for over 2 years in a barn. I am so lost.
     
  31. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    :( :( :( :( :(

    So sorry to hear this. I wish there were something I could do to help. At this point, it sounds like it's up to Joe and whatever has him blocked up. It's good that he's still trying to poop, I think.

    Question: were you able to take him in? When you were giving him the directed massage of his belly, did you feel anything anywhere that could be the blockage? We had a kitty here (@DavesMom , I think?) recently that had to have some hardened poop removed "manually" by the vet-- no surgery or house-mortgaging, in other words. This would only work if whatever it is is close to the exit point, of course, but is there a chance you'd be able to bring him in to see if that was a possibility?

    So sorry this is happening. I have all fingers and paws crossed over here for you guys, I hope this resolves soon.

    :bighug: :bighug: :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:
     
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  32. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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  33. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    I will take him in tomorrow morning. Hubby had to be gone today and there is no way to get to the vet now - well they are almost closed now.
    I palpated his tummy and it is not hard or lumpy. He still has a layer of fat there but I just don't feel anything different. Pernilla - the vet - said that she could try to remove some but he would need to be put to sleep and get a tube in his mouth to keep him from aspirating anything and then the enema. They call this a big deal and could cost more than the rest of my savings. Also she feels that if the poo was close enough for her to do this the oil would have worked. If it higher up they can't do an enema. I need to live by Dr. Jeff!
    Do you think I should maybe just give him water and forget the food and the oil? He was taking the feedings very calmly until today.
    Pernilla knows how his stomach should feel and at least she could do that. If he is worse in the morning and nothing can be done I guess I would be there to say good bye to him. I will not have him dying at home feeling awful.
     
  34. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    :banghead:

    I probably misunderstood how extensive the treatment was (maybe DavesMom will come into this thread later and clarify what happened there).

    OK, at least until tomorrow, we just have to hold our breaths and hope. Maybe someone else will also have some suggestions, but in the meantime, give him lots of loving and encouragement, poor little guy. Keeping you in my thoughts. :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:
     
  35. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Oh, Bonnie!

    :bighug::bighug:

    All I can suggest is to ask your vet tomorrow whether a short course of metoclopramide (Reglan) might be a help to Oreo Joe (to help him get back to pooping normally after she helps him with his current difficulties). I've never had a cat as severely constipated as Oreo seems to be at the moment so I don't know what to suggest about feeding. He might be dehydrated (do the scruff tent test and check his gums). Dehydration doesn't help anything so maybe see if you can get Oreo to take a little water?

    I'm very glad that you're taking Oreo Joe to the vets tomorrow. I am keeping my fingers crossed that because he's actually trying to pass a bowel motion the problem stool is down low enough for the vet to be able to do something to help when you get him there.

    Constipation can make a cat feel really lousy and they can get quite lethargic. Once they get the problem poop out they can quickly feel a great deal better. I hope this will happen for your dear boy.

    Sending positive vibes and prayers for both of you.

    :bighug:


    Mogs
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    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
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  36. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Don't know whether this may be of help but when Saoirse was badly constipated after a surgery the vet gave her an enema but she didn't need to be anaesthetised for it.

    Keeping fingers and paws crossed that the vet will be able to help in the morning (and also that Oreo Joe might be able to pass something in the meantime).

    :bighug:


    Mogs
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  37. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    I was up all night with my boy. He loved the tummy massage that lasted for hours. He goes to the fountain now but at 3 AM I couldn't keep sitting, I went to bed with Oreo on me before I laid down. We then spent the rest of the night with him hopping off to the litter box and back on the bed. Every ½ hour. Early AM to the phone and the Vets are doing work at another clinic for small animal visits as they are far away from any clinic. There was no one there until Pernilla is back for a 3 pm so we will be there then. Poor boy he has been to the box 5 times in 1½ hours. I ck'd my account and my money will be wiped out before the coming bills come and I will have to set up monthly payments. But he made it this far I can't let him down. 3 leaks in the roof over my bed on my head. Roofer is coming. :banghead:
     
  38. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Praying for you two ...

    :bighug:


    Mogs
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  39. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    I still think this is a really good sign that it's something close enough that he can feel it, and he's still going for water and enjoying attention. Hoping it's just a matter of more time, or a small (inexpensive) intervention... Will be thinking of you guys all day, please keep us updated. :bighug: :bighug:
     
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  40. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sending more positive vibes and prayers ...

    :bighug:


    Mogs
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  41. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Remember to ask the vet about whether a few days on metoclopramide (Reglan) would help normalise Oreo Joe's gut motility (after the vet has the sorted out the current constipation hold-up, of course).

    :bighug:


    Mogs
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    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
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  42. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Oreo has or probably has a tumor It is where their wouldn't be stool. A rectal was done and there was soft stool that she could feel. She couldn't feel any stool where it should be if constipated. He is hydrated. She said to try Miralax ½ tsp BID. If he is no better by Friday morning we need to decide if we put him down. Before we left home he had a walnut shaped extremely hard piece of stool. As far as the tumor it may be slow growing and we won't know, There are no scans available as most people can't afford the price. An x-ray will only show a shadow and we know that is there. He is on my lap cuddled in for a good long nap. Roger needed a nap badly so is laying down in the feeding spot. We picked up feeding syringes 14 dollars for 2 - 10cc syringe! I should have never been a nurse, I should have went into equipment for pets! We don't have pumpkin available and we have to out of town to find a squash, usually only tiny zucchini.
    Any help in decision making will be welcome. :(
     
  43. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Oh, Bonnie ...

    My heart sank on reading the above. :(

    I've no experience with tumors so I can't help any in that regard. I do suggest that you start a new thread on Feline Health asking for urgent input/help from any members who have dealt with feline tumors. They might be able to offer suggestions about diagnostics, etc. Be sure to give details of Oreo Joe's recent history (poor appetite; syringe feeding leading to some improvement in appetite with Cerenia assistance; difficulty passing stool then subsequent dip in appetite again). If you have any current lab results it would be helpful to include them in the thread, too.

    For information only, psyllium husk is an alternative source of fibre (needs to be started very, very sparingly as it can really bulk up the stool). NB: Given the latest discovery, you need to consult with your vet before doing anything with fibre!!! I really and truly hope the Miralax will help Oreo Joe.

    Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers and sending some gentle fusses for your beautiful boy. It shines from your posts how very much you love each other. Just wish there was something more I could do ...

    :bighug:


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    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  44. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    I'm so sorry.... :(

    I also don't have experience with this kind of thing, but my impression is that the course of action is very individual and depends on the location and progress of the tumor. In some cases, cats can live quite happily with something slow-growing, in others with a more aggressive tumor, quality of life issues become obvious very quickly.

    I'm glad he was able to pass a bit of stool, maybe that will help by removing that one extra obstacle. I don't want to promote false hope here, but it sounds like the vet wasn't able to be definitive on a tumor, but was inferring its presence because Oreo had some soft stool/wasn't constipated when you brought him in, but that was after he'd passed the hard lump. In any case, let's see how he does in the next day or so.

    :bighug:
     
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  45. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Butternut squash, sweet potato, yams will also work.

    One of my inherited cats made a trip to the emergency vet due to constipation. An xray was taken. Along with fecal matter, the xray showed a very visible large cell tumour on or near her liver. I have no clue if the tumour and the constipation were related. The vets could not answer that question. Due to her age and personality (she was a scaredy cat and chose to live in one room), surgery wasn't an option, and we decided to treat with compassionate care only.

    The constipation was dealt with by an enema, twice (such fun). Cisapride to help with motility was prescribed along with lactulose. The lactulose didn't help, so we switched to mirilax (which did). Blood work taken showed chronic kidney disease. Treated with subq fluids, pepcid ac, an ace inhibitor, and aluminum hydroxide.
    The subq fluids helped the constipation as well (miralax works by drawing water into the colon).

    We kept her going for 11 months. Looking back, I don't think it was our hard work that kept her going, but a complete personality change that came over her. She had a bucket list and was determined to tick off every box. In the end, the tumour became so large that it squished her digestive organs and prevented her from eating. She wasn't in pain. Just hungry and unable to eat. Sad, but good knowing that she had crossed so many things off her bucket list. I'll never forget standing in the woods watching a by now deaf cat on a leash intently mouse hunting.

    . cochise.JPG
     
  46. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Bonnie,

    Just checking in to ask how you and Oreo Joe are doing this morning, and to let you know you're both in my thoughts and prayers.

    :bighug:


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  47. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I'm sorry you're facing such a major challenge with your kitty. I hope you can keep him as comfortable as possible. :bighug::bighug:
     
  48. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Thinking of you and Oreo Joe, Bonnie, and keeping you both in my prayers.

    :bighug:


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  49. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    (((Bonnie)))

    Thinking of you. Remember we are always here if you need us.

    :bighug:


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  50. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    I know I left everyone hanging. Things are getting horrid. I am feeling so sorry for Oreo and myself. He is like a service cat for me. He is there when I am having hard times even moving. He cuddles when I need it. We thought that he would start doing #2 Wed pm. There were a couple of times he asked for crunchy treats and was back to drinking. He ate a few bites of food Sat and then at 4 this morning ate some food with enthusiasm. Yesterday there were 2 small moist stools. Thumb nail size but it was a start. He has gotten Miralax 1/4 tsp AM and PM. But I haven't seen him drinking today although he did urinate once. He goes to the litter box after each feeding but nothing. I never have seen him in the box but this pm I was getting my bed ready for a cold night when I could see him and he really strained hard several times. My heart dropped, he is not acting sick but I am thinking that the tumor is pressing where it stops easy passage of stool. By the end of the week he will be gone. We can't fight this tumor, once he is showing discomfort we will have to take him in. I will be back to report later.
     
  51. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    I'm so sorry. I'm glad you and Oreo are giving each other a little comfort, and that he doesn't seem to be in distress. It sounds like he's still in the game, eating and at least trying to use the litter box. I think you have the right idea here; let him tell you when it is time, and in the meantime give him all the support he needs.

    Thanks for the update, even if it's not the best news. Keeping you guys in my thoughts. :bighug:
     
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  52. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Thank you!
    He is so sweet on my lap. Curled up with wake up times to be held.
     
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  53. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Mirilax works by drawing water into the colon. If you can get fluids into him, it may help him feel better.

    To test for dehydration, tent the scruff the neck as if giving an insulin shot. If the skin stays up for more than a few seconds, the cat is dehydrated. Dehydration can make a cat feel miserable, and they frequently perk up after fluids.

    Are you doing subq fluids at home?
     
  54. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    (((Bonnie and Oreo Joe)))

    Keeping you both in my prayers.

    :bighug:


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  55. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    After despair last evening there is joy in the morning. When I got up I checked the box and nothing. Got ready for the day and decided since it was 5 AM I would hold off on feeding a bit. Last evening Oreo Joe refused to eat Laid his head to the side and let even just water run out. Roger came in let out a whoop and said he went he went. fat thumb size. Still didn't want to eat but it went down anyway and I came in from cleaning up the kitchen and went to cuddle him and he went an even larger amount. He is curled up with his nose tucked in a fold on my lap blanket. I do know how to give fluids from my Renal failure cat but Oreo is drinking and peeing and nice moist gums. Wow.
    Quick question I am paying $7.35 per 12 cc syringe! I started 2 new ones Friday and I wash them in hot water and fill and rinse the syringe and let dry, but by Monday morning it takes all the strength I have to draw up a syringe full of puree. The holes are perfect, no bites that flatten them. When I start to feed 2 min later I have to push so hard to get it started I lose a bit of the puree. It is like trying to draw up cement. I certainly can't afford $14 every 3 days. Have any of you had this problem?? Thank you!! :bighug::)
     
  56. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Hooray Oreo! :woot: I hope this makes him feel better!

    I don't know about the syringes. On another thread people were talking about there being a thin layer of lubricant inside insulin syringes-- maybe it's the same with these, so when you wash them the lubricant is removed and it's harder to move the plunger?
     
  57. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    I googled for sticky syringes and found a blog that said that they don't have a long life and to buy a baby feeding syringe. Another idea was a baster like for a turkey and the last idea was a cake decorator with a bag and the tips. Hubby was down town and I called him to buy one and he came home with tips big enough to feed a cow. Well I am exaggerating some. I couldn't get the syringes filled so had used a small 5 cc one to feed him. I am not doing that again so got some package tape out and covered ½ of that cake decorating hole. I will see how that goes in a few hours. I oiled the plunger and pulled some up into the syringe and I can squirt it out a bit better but not great. If my brat continues on the no eat thing I will have to see what I can order on line if they don't have baby ones at the pharmacy. I wish I could wish for a Walmart and have it appear down the road. lol
     
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  58. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    @Nan & Amber - The plunger swells after use and washing.
     
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  59. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    If you're using these to syringe food or water into Oreo, you can try putting a very thin rubbing of cooking oil on the edge of the plunger that touches the inner wall of the syringe. Push the plunger up and down a few times to get it moving smoothly. When you're done wash the syringe well because oils can degrade the syringe rubber over time. I do this whenever I have to syringe meds, etc. into my horse's mouth. Those syringes are huge and it's hard to push the plunger.
     
  60. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    I put cooking oil in and it pushed out a bit easier. I need a metal syringe. lol Thanks I have trouble with the 12 cc syringes that are called 10 cc for some reason. My hands hurt all the time and pushing on anything is hard. A long time ago my other cat needed feeding for a few days. The vet I learned to hate gave me a syringe and food and it was a 20 cc or larger I said that it was to big for my hand to hold and he told me that was what he used and I could use it too. I finger fed her for a week. I had no transportation to go to town to get smaller.
     
  61. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Woot for the poop! :D I hope Oreo Joe feels much better for it and that it will enable him to eat a bit better, Bonnie.

    :bighug:


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  62. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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  63. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    On the poop side of things, it's wise to actually examine the stools produced every day to make sure that they're well formed but with a softly yielding consistency that will be comfortable for Oreo Joe to pass without straining. Doing this should help you to monitor the efficacy of his constipation treatments and make sure that the dose is right.

    I keep a little plastic takeaway food container for this purpose. I line it with loo paper, pop the stool into it and then with a decent wad of folded loo paper in hand I squish the stool to see how firm it is. (And yes, I do wash my hands afterwards! :smuggrin: )

    :bighug:


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  64. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    His stools are hard but now that he is going I hope the Miralax will get them soft. He went 1 more time today so with all 3 he must have had it up to his ears. He some how knew I was cutting chicken breasts for our dinner and showed up begging!! He ate 4 or 5 small pieces of raw breast. His favorite of all foods. Oh don't use a cake decorating kit to feed it was a disaster.
     
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  65. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Miralax is a 'dose to effect' treatment, Bonnie (hence my recommendation to check the consistency/form of each stool in case the dose might need to be tweaked).

    How much Miralax are you currently giving Oreo Joe each day, Bonnie?


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  66. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    largest dose allowed, 1/4 tsp Am and PM
     
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  67. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    It might be worth keeping a little written log of amount fed, amount of water added to food (important because even mild dehydration can make stools drier), Miralax dose given and Oreo's stool quality each day (plus any other meds he's receiving). It will be a helpful guide for you and your vet. Your vet may be able to recommend additional things to help improve Oreo's stool consistency.


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  68. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    "allowed" by who and why?
    I have used larger dose
     
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  69. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Here we don't have Miralax so vets don't know about it. My last cat had diabetes handled by food but then had Kidney failure and I was in Tanya's group for that. She was having really hard stools and they said to giver her no more than 1/4th tsp 2 times daily. But now Oreo is having good daily stools that are formed but soft and no straining.
    How much can one use if he gets into trouble again, although I will be using it daily since without it he gets constipated.
     
  70. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Oreo is mouse hunting. He carried on about a cupboard and I opened the door and he dug his way in the over filled space and knocked out a new pkg of spaghetti that a mouse had opened up. I think he caught and ate one 2 nights ago. He left a little pkg of what looked like mouse intestines in front of the toilet and has been staking out the kitchen.
    Tuesday pm Oreo saw his new canned food on a plate and ate 2 TBLS looking so proud. Since then he has eaten a bit of raw chicken but today he is still not eating. He took his raw chicken and carried it 3 feet from the dish and left it on the floor. He did ask for his crunchy treats and ate a few. He looks at his food many times but then walks away. I will get a new pkg of Cerenia tomorrow. But how do I know if he is nauseated he doesn't gag or throw up and he is getting 36 cc of pureed food only, no water mixed in, 4 times a day. Can I give him Pepcid 1/4 tab don't remember if it is 1 or 2 times a day? Or is there another idea? Remember he will never touch human food, never fish, never tuna, certainly not anything stinky etc. He went to a strictly chicken or turkey pate' and any other food was tossed out for the feral cats. The pharmacy found 5 cc syringes for 62 cents each and as I said I feed him 4 times a day. Would sure like to get him eating real food.
    Thanks for any ideas.
     
  71. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    I'm so happy Oreo was feeling zippy enough to do some mousing! :woot: That seems like a really good sign.

    But it does sound like he's nauseated today-- the going to food and walking away is a sign. Are you raising the food bowls a few inches off the floor? That can help with mild nausea. Not sure about Pepcid.

    In terms of other ideas, this is a long shot since he seems to prefer "plain" food, but there's something called a "liver shake" that has a good track record for appealing to cats that are feeling poorly. Might be worth a try if the ingredients are easily available to you.

    Recipe: THE '~LIVER SHAKE~' FOR SICK CATS
     
  72. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    I should add, if nausea is the problem, the liver shake isn't going to fix it, it's just something else to try to tempt him with.

    Hope he's feeling better soon. I really am so encouraged by the mousing adventures!
     
  73. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Bonnie,

    I'm glad to hear that Oreo Joe is having a better time on the poop front! :)

    From what you describe it sounds like Oreo is interested in food but just not able to eat properly by himself. You've got two issues running here:

    1. Nausea possibly due to gut motility/constipation problems.

    As I suggested before, it should help you to keep a daily record of how much Oreo is eating (via syringe or by himself) and also how much he is pooping every day. As I suggested before, if poor gut motility is a problem for Oreo then perhaps ask your vet about metoclopramide (Reglan - not suitable for long-term treatment). I've also seen mention here about a medication called cisapride which can help with gut motility problems but I've never used or researched it so don't have any practical suggestions or experience to share.

    2. Possible non-constipation-related nausea.

    As I posted before, both Cerenia and ondansetron can help cats with nausea. These drugs have different modes of action. Some cats do better with Cerenia, others do better with ondansetron. I have read here that some caregivers have used a combination of Cerenia and ondansetron to help their nauseated cats but I've never used the two together so can't offer any practical experience regarding such a treatment regimen.

    I'm posting a link to a vet-authored article from DVM360 which discusses all of the treatments commonly used in cats and dogs to control nausea and vomiting. It might be worth printing off a copy and discussing which treatment might best help Oreo with your vet.

    DVM360 - Treatments for Nausea and Vomiting

    While the article mentions acute vomiting, the medications it talks about are used to treat nausea and vomiting. (Note: The article also discusses a class of drugs called phenothiazine antiemetics. I've never seen mention of the use of this class of drugs for cats.)

    WRT Pepcid AC (famotidine), it's more of a treatment for stomach acid problems. While it may help a little with nausea issues, in my experience at least it is nothing like as effective as ondansetron or Cerenia for marked to severe nausea problems because all it does is reduce stomach acid production; it does not target the parts of the system that control nausea and vomiting).


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  74. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Oreo is back on
    Mirtazapin Alternova 15 mg tab 1/4 tab every 3 days for max of 10 days.
    He is also continuing on the
    Cerenia 16mg and broken to 1/4 tab once a day until he starts to eat.

    His food bowl is elevated, his fountain is higher and he drinks often and is urinating normally. He has 1 or 2 well formed stools that are soft and no longer cause straining. I got a peek when he didn't see me. This morning he asked to play a bit with a mouse. Hide the mouse under a scatter rug and leave his tail stick out and he kills it. He has never been one to play more than a few swats at something.
    I kept the liver recipe although I remember he did't like his chicken liver cat food. Ahh he wants only 4 star $100 meals.
     
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  75. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Need Input Please!!
    Oreo almost grabs my hand holding the syringe and starts licking - I don't put it in his mouth I hold just outside of his mouth and he licks as I slowly drizzle the puree out. He stops when he wants and can't believe I stop before he is ready. 38 to 40 cc's are gone in 10 minutes or less. He sits on my lap and using the Jedi mind control tries to get me to give him the entire bag (1/4th cup ) of crunchy treats. He saw I dropped it and had his head shoved in this tiny bag and was gobbling like a dog. He would simply eat bag after bag. But he doesn't eat his food that I give him fresh from the container. His puree is chicken or turkey and his regular food I have beef bits in sauce or beef bits in gel.
    There are almost no choices of flavors in the only good brand of food here that he will eat. He leads me to the kitchen and begs at the refrigerator door. Sometimes he eats a piece of his raw chicken and it is small. Then begs for one more and leaves it and walks away. Now and then he will eat 2 or 3 bites of the regular food and then not touch food again for 2 days. He has a good sized normal stool daily, drinks and urinates 2 or 3 times a day. He has begun to jump up in the window sills and look out, climb on his cat gym
    But what do I do with his hunger? Should I get a small bag of dry and hope he doesn't get addicted? Do I buy a different brand of cat food that is bad for him so I don't go through the only good canned and have him get tired of it all?
    Vet ordered Cerenia on Thursday. Roger went to pick it up on Sat. and they didn't know I wanted it so hadn't ordered it! He can get it after noon tomorrow.
    I want him to eat so badly my muscles are so stiff I can't turn my head, but I need this to go right for him, not just me.
    Thanks for suggestions. Roger will help me down the steps and into the grocery store tomorrow so I can buy him food. No Evo anywhere near us if they have it here. I never checked, he was so happy to leave 2½ years of dry food behind he never wanted anything like that.
    Oh I crumbled his crunchy treats and put a tsp full over a tiny piece of chicken and in another spot on 4 bits of food. He hasn't touched it.
     
  76. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Wow! Good to hear that Oreo is so interested in food!!!!

    You know, I'm of the mind that, if he wants to eat, feed him what he wants to eat, whenever he wants to eat it. At least for now, while he's still getting back on his feet, the blood glucose regulation is taking a back seat. I would try to stay away from dry food as much as you can because of his constipation problems, but if that's what he wants, it's what he wants.

    For the inconsistency (asking for food, then walking away), do you think he's associating you feeding him? Have you tried feeding him from your hand rather than leaving things in his bowl?

    It's so good to hear his appetite is back, even if it's uncertain!
     
  77. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    He takes all the treats from my hand or the lap blanket I have when sitting. Same with the chicken he varies although the last 2 pieces were from my hand.
    I will see how small a bag of dry there is. But mostly will get a couple of cans of a totally different brand canned and can transition back. A small bag for crunches will give him a choice. His treats are 1.75 for 2.11 ounces. To expensive to fill a bowl with!! Thanks for the help.
     
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  78. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Do I start a new thread when I have a new question? I am giving Oreo Cerenia and Mirtazapin Alternova- Question on the later, The vet said every 2 days but on here I was told never more than every 3 days. I thought that Mirtazapin Alternova 15 mg tab 1/4 tab every 3 days for max of 10 days. Every 3 days for max of 10 days mean from the 1st dose I counted to 10 days so there would be 3 doses and then stop. Sorry I am finding more confusion the more I am unable to rest, now I question if it was no more than 10 doses. Can someone help clear the fog. Nona of the new tricks with trying dry food, different bad brand canned etc have worked. He seems to be hungry and even comes to the feeding spot when called hops up and with no burrito wrap laps up the puree from the tip of the syringe like a cat will from a faucet. He stops when he wants and is upset if I pause the drizzling of the puree, when the 5cc syringe is empty and I switch to a new one he doesn't like that. he usually wants his treats but there again he will refuse them about 1/3 of the time. He gladly takes 10 or 15 cc in between his 4 feedings. I am just thinking how the Mirtazapin needs more than 3 doses. That is when I realized I could be thinking wrong.
    If this is jumbled up please tell me as I said I am getting messed up too and don't make sense at times.
     
  79. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    One quick idea you might try, if he's actively feeding off the syringe and you're trying to get him to eat on his own: hold a small plate under when you're syringe feeding him. Then see if you can gradually bring the syringe (and probably his chin if he follows the syringe) closer to the plate and maybe ooze the feed out of the syringe onto the plate to see if he will lap it up. Not sure I'm explaining well, but the idea is that if he laps what is oozing out of the syringe, if you can get the syringe to ooze first nearly on the plate and then on the plate WHILE he is lapping, he might just lap some off the plate. Does this make sense? Sorry if my explanation is complicated.
     
  80. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    I will do that now! He stopped eating this morning to lick off what had dropped on the towel like he needed every drop. Thanks so much.
     
  81. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    If he’s licking off the towel I think you’ll have him licking off the plate quite easily! Make the transition gradual :)
    Baby step by baby step.
    Let us know how it goes!
     
  82. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Let's all meet for a feast and watch that big boy of mine eating off a plate!
    I tried a small plate I used for his chicken treats but the way he sits on my lap facing me the plate was a bit to big. Got a small paper plate the same size but folded it so it looked like a taco shell. I put it down lower than his head and he started to lick from the syringe and then some dripped off and he bent his head to find it and I raised the plate and squirted some puree on it and off he went. 35 cc's eaten like a little pig off the plate and he almost licked a hole in the plate. I knew he would need new puree for morning and thought I would fix it and then decided to try just the chicken pate' he ate 2 tablespoons of it and just sniffed the puree I put next to it. It was at his regular feeding place in my room. I am so excited I could dance.
    His fountain died Wed and I ordered a new one, Won't get it until Tuesday but the other choice was a 6 hour round trip drive. He drinks from his bowl but first looks every where for his fountain.

    I guess I keep up with his nausea and appetite stimulant a bit longer? The appetite tab that we gave him this morning I found on the floor a couple of hours ago.
    This group rocks.
     
  83. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Bonnie,

    Please confirm the following with your vet:

    Dosing info for mirtazapine: 1.8mg per cat every 48 hours.

    Historically, dose was 3.75mg per cat every 72 hours but, according to the following article, giving the smaller dose is less likely to cause side effects:

    http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/mirtazapine-cats-how-much-too-much

    [Emphasis mine]

    Cats with nausea issues can find it much more comfortable to eat and drink when they don't have to stoop down for the food and water.

    You need to keep them up as long as Oreo Joe needs them.

    How are things on the poop front these days?


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  84. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    He is regular in the litter box and the Miralax is keeping things normal He lapped up his entire meal this night feeding. Tried a few bites of his canned food. But I didn't have water in it. The bowl kept out for him always had water in it. He is so funny and so proud!! Will call the vet, The one on call had ordered 1/4 tab about 4 mg every 48 hours but here I was told every 72. I don't know how I can cut it smaller but will try. Just want to be sure about how many doses in a row I give. TY :)
     
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  85. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    This is very good news! (((Oreo)))


    Mogs
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  86. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Need help with Mirtazapin Alternova dose
    The vet looked in their book on animal medications and says that there is nothing in it that says how long a cat can stay on this medication. I am giving the 1/8th tab every 48 hours.
    Oreo Joe has to be fed by syringe very rarely. He will at times take a tiny lick of puree from his usual feeding place off his bowl. He at times will take a tiny bite of regular food or cooked chicken but so tiny it couldn't count toward intake. He will only eat sitting on my lap facing me, close to me, I took a small paper plate, put a fold in it. I hold one part against my chest and he eats off the little ledge ONLY if I squirt pureed food from a syringe slowly onto the plate. I can't get him to eat off a plain white plastic cover or anything else. I can see he is both hungry and nauseated. I give him Cerenia daily at his first feeding in the morning. The Mirtazapin Alternova at least 4½ to 5 hours later.
    If someone can help me with the length of time he can take the Mirtazapin it would help. I don't want to kill him. Can he continue on it indefinitely? I understand he can with the Cerenia.
    Thanks for any help.
     
  87. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    In all the studies and posts here and other places I have never hears of a time limit for using Mirtazapin.

    I assume you mean 15 mg tabs. Mirtazipin is also available in 7 1/2 mg tabs.
     
  88. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Bonnie,

    I recommend you let the vet know that Oreo is still showing signs of nausea even when receiving the Cerenia. Again I suggest asking your vet about trialling him on generic ondansetron to see whether that might help with the nausea. (Cerenia and ondansetron work in different ways so there's a possibility that the ondansetron may be of additional help with his nausea.)


    Mogs
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  89. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Hi Larry! I don't think we have the 7½ mg in Sweden. Ok then as long he doesn't get more weird than he is now I will keep it up. Question He has gone from nice normal soft formed stools to a very hard one yesterday. I remembered you said you have given more Miralax than 1/4th tsp 2 times a day so gave him more yesterday pm. Today there was nothing but a really small rock hard piece. He is drinking lots, in fact I thought maybe his BG was up but it was 88. He gets 40 ml of pureed food 4 times a day. How much do I dare give him of Miralax. The vet had thought that she felt a lump where nothing should be and we almost put him to sleep. Then he got better and she said that with the huge amount of stool he went 2 days later it could have been something else. I felt it when she helped me. I can't get it but what do I know? If Miralax doesn't work I will have to think the tumor grew and is blocking something. Then I will have to have him sent to the Bridge. I can't get water down with a syringe he drools it out but he really is drinking and peeing several times a day. The only laxative for cats here is paraffin oil and he was looking like I was making a candle out of him. It didn't help like the Miralax that I have always brought over when I visited the USA.
     
  90. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
     
  91. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    I checked in with the other vet and we talked but I checked out the price and 10 tags are $50. I don't have 50 dollars. Still working on his poo. I asked the vet and she said the only choice was that paraffin oil which is awful.
     
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