Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by srk4cats, Sep 19, 2017.
@StephG bouncing again?
Could be. Probably from seeing blues and a possible green... Can't be sure she hit green.
Keep testing for ketones. Hopefully she'll level out soon.
She's never leveled out since she was diagnosed in January. I'm so stressed out.
I do know the feeling. Chuck bounced for almost a year. He still bounces but not so high.
As long as you keep testing for Ketones and trying you will eventually see her calm down. Try to get spot tests in. I know you work but the before bed test or nighttime bathroom trip tests can help show what's going on.
Keep her hydrated too. Extra water in meals or a watery treat (I did warm water with chicken & broth baby food).
Curves on the weekend or vacation days.
The more pieces of the puzzle you can see makes it easier to make a plan.
Thank you. What if I just leave out food for her to eat during the day? Her yowling is driving me crazy.
As long as it's low carb I'd say go for it. I know I do, and many people here use timers so kitty can't just gobble up everything that's left out for them.
Yep. I'm a big fan of having snacks out for them. Chuck has to have his on a timer because he will scarf and barf.
You could try freezing a few chunks and leaving them out to thaw if she eats it all up right away.
@srk3cats I really thought you might see a better PMPS. Looks she bounces for 2 or 3 full cycles, I can't be positive on this so it's my best guess. Maybe you'll see a better preshot in the morning.
The higher numbers are not good for Ketones so a test as soon as you can catch her peeing is best.
I'm not sure if I should give her a half dose or no dose tonight. I got home late anyway and I have to leave for work tomorrow at 7 am.
Oh man. That's tough. I think it's best to skip. I know she's had Ketones so if you must give her insulin give her a very small dose. 0.25 units... Get a before bed test if you give her any tonight.
I would skip if I was in your shoes. Then give her the shot in the morning on time.
Did she eat less this morning?
Maybe between a fat 1 unit and skinny 1.5 (1.25 units) would be better for her under 200 preshots. Her bounces are somewhat predictable which is a good tool. She might bounce overnight. There's no way to tell how low she actually went but seeing a green might be enough to trigger her bounce.
I skipped her shot.
negative for ketones. seeing the new vet tomorrow.
Good luck with the new vet!
Good news on the Ketones.
Might be worth getting a mid cycle tonight to see how low the 1.5 unit gets her on a blue preshot.
omg, she's bouncing like a rubber ball! Do you think I should go back to a fat 1 unit? Or is this bouncing normal when there is a dosage change?
Just got back from the new vet. I was very impressed that she already had Chloe's records from previous vets and hospital. She said that because of all the ups and downs, I might want to try Lantus. She did a fructose test and will tell me the results on Monday. Otherwise, she said that Chloe looked good and that her weight being stable was a good sign.
I think the 84 ps this morning shows that 1.5 was a bit too much for a 170 ps.
They can bounce from dose changes but I think she is bouncing from getting lower numbers. Her preshot numbers are somewhat predictable.
She will probably bounce from the green. Did you give her insulin this morning?
Would you be willing to give 1.5 on 200+ ps and 1.25 (or fat 1) on the blue preshots?
This might help but if not it's easy to change back to same dose.
I am a big fan of Lantus. You might want to start on a weekend so you can test enough to know she's in safe numbers.
Hypo with lantus can last hours requiring HC snacks every half hour to bring them up to safe numbers. If you look at Chuck's SS you'll see the sudden and unexpected lime green and very low green numbers a few nights ago. So testing would be necessary to keep her safe. Maybe not as much as I test but mid cycles for sure.
You could post in the lantus forum and see what they think.
I will wait until I hear the results of the fructose test on Monday and ask the vet. I think your plan sounds reasonable for now. I just stared a new vial of Prozinc, so I'll continue that for awhile. I need to find out where to get Lantus cheap. It looks like it may be that Canadian pharmacy.
Yes, I think Mark's is the cheapest. You can find some in the supply closet here too.
You wondered about Lantus in the past and I recall responding and telling you that it's less forgiving timing-wise. It's best to stick to as close to a 12/12 shooting schedule as possible. Also, it's dosed based on the nadir value, not the pre shots so you definitely need mid cycle tests to assess a dose. It's different from ProZinc in those key ways. Steph can help you with that but you will have to operate with more constraints.
I think I've been pretty consistant with the times. If you look at my spreadsheet, I put the times in the comments next to the numbers. What is the consequence of shooting 30 minutes late with Lantus? I think I asked the vet and she said it's not so important. I am going to take Steph's advice and shoot 1.25 u in the morning and 1.5 u in the pm and see if that evens her out.
With the depot insulins, a change in dose timing can have an effect on the depot. Shooting early more than 15 minutes or so can act like a small dose increase because the depot is fuller still. Shooting more than 15 minutes late can act like a small dose decrease because the depot has drained a bit more by that time.
I suggest you read the yellow info stickies of the Lantus forum. They give you a lot of information on how these insulins work.
How far into the cycle are you? I can't remember the time difference between us.
If it's not too late I would get a mid cycle. Would help to see how the 1.25 is working.
Just wanted to clarify that I think 1.25 units for under 200 and 1.5 for over 200. You might have days with the same dose both cycles or one being different.
Depends on the preshot.
That 1.5 unit dose knocked out that 400s preshot with ease! It makes me wonder if I'm a bit high on the suggested doses but we can't tell without mid cycle tests. Maybe tonight you can get a before bed test?
Lantus does require more testing. Your preshots are great. I'm very happy you're getting them because they already saved Chloe from getting too much insulin.
But Kris is right. Lantus dose is really based on the nadir. That nadir can be +6 to +8. Chuck's is +7 or +8 depending on the day.
If you can not get any mid cycle tests during the day I think it would be best to follow "start low, go slow" method. She reacts very well to insulin so she might only need a tiny dose since it last longer.
Of course this is IF you and your vet decide to switch to Lantus.
Just checking in... Looks like she's being somewhat consistent with preshots.
Hopefully the PMPS will get a bit lower soon.
Hi Steph. I heard from the vet. She said that Chloe was fair and I should continue Prozinc at 1.5 units.
I would use caution on the preshots under 200. Make sure she's not going too low by getting before bed tests or mid cycle tests on those cycles.
I think if the red preshots return it might show she's bouncing.
I was going to suggest a "skinny" 1.5 but wasn't sure it was a good idea without data to back it up.
Good to hear your vet seems to be keeping in touch. Always nice when they're willing to work with you.
Yes, my vet said "
If Chloe's blood glucose is less than 100 when she is due to receive an injection, don't give that injection.
I adopted a kitten from the pound! He looks a lot like Chico (orange tabby). I'll pick him up on Monday after his operation. I think I'll name him Milo. Cheddar is cute, too. What do you think? I hope he'll be a good playmate for Chico.
I like both names! I've decided I'm not going to adopt another cat once mine are gone. I'll foster but I'm going to try not to claim any as my own.
I see you went down to 1.25 units. Vet recommended? I think it looks good for her. Maybe a before bed test since it's a blue preshot?
I think Chloe hid the Relion meter. She was messing about on the nightstand during the night. So I used the Everpaw and got 401. I'm going back to 1.5 this morning because she's so high. The vet didn't have anything to do with it. The other night, there was a premature ejaculation and a drop landed on the back of my hand. So I gave her 1.25 to compensate for the lost drop.
I had gone to the pound yesterday to drop off some cans that Chewy had refunded me for because they were the hearty cuts. Anyway, I should have dropped them off somewhere else because I couldn't resist adopting the kitten. He was so playful. I had seen a cat with diabetes on a website and meant to foster him. I didn't find him, and ended up with Milo. Have you seen the movie Milo and Otis? Otis is a pug and I had one as a child. I considered Bob because I had just finished reading about Bob the Streetcat, but I wanted a 2-syllable name. You should read that book about Bob. I just finished the sequel, titled The World According to Bob.
I loved Milo and Otis when I was a kid. Great movie.
Have you looked into how to introduce a new cat to the house? There's some great stuff out there on how to do it slowly so they don't see each other as threats and can become friends over time.
I still haven't found the Relion, so I used the Everpaw again. My heart jumped when I got a reading of 956! I forgot to turn it around. It was 256. Anyway, I've been thinking how to introduce Milo, but my house is basically only 3 rooms, plus a bathroom. Fuzma owns one room and Chloe owns my bedroom. Chico, my alpha cat, goes whereever he wants. I can start a new Feliway in my bedroom and put him in there with Chloe. She's very maternal and took to Chico right away. The only other option is to keep Milo in the bathroom by himslef, but I think he would cry. I thought of putting him with Fuzma, but she doesn't like other cats.
My cousin has a pug named Otis because of that movie too. He's a jerk though. Unfortunately I'm not talking about the dog.
I can't imagine taking care of more than 1 diabetic cat. There is a cat at my local shelter and it did cross my mind but DH was very quick to say no! lol
Good luck introducing them.
I looked it up and a lot of reviews said there was animal cruelty in that movie. So now I'm thinking Cheddar. Chico-Cheddar, Cheddar-Chico sounds good. I always call the names like that. Pogo-Purr-C, Purr-C-Pogo, Chango-Holstein, Holstein-Chango.
My cat's have human names to go with their personality.
Satan aka Chuck Norris
Kitty aka Duane Johnson, Kitty-cow, Obobo lol he has a few.
Bubba was Wesley Snipes, Tubber, bubbers he passed on 6/2013.
Awww he's so cute! Have you introduced him to the others yet?
I tried to keep him isolated in a room by himself, but that didn't last long before he started crying. My other cats, especially Chico, are just staring at him. He hisses if they get too close. Already, he's acting like he owns the place. I tested Chloe and put out food and Cheddar went over there and dug in; Chloe and Chico stayed back. Fun days ahead...
Oh boy. Supervised meal times with a kitten... Good luck. Might help to feed him a little early so his belly is full when you put the other food out. Might! Haha
It's looking like what I had hoped for: Cheddar is diverting Chico's attention from Chloe. But Chloe didn't eat this morning and Cheddar has been sneezing a lot. I have Fall break all next week. Cheddar is getting his check-up on Monday. I'll do a ketone test on Chloe tomorrow.Also, someone's been vomiting.
If she was mine I'd get a ketone test today. Since she's already been DKA and with the other symptoms it's dangerous to wait until tomorrow. You've got to stay on top of this as the sooner she gets to the vet with ketones the more likely she is to beat it.
I agree. Don't wait til tomorrow. It could be too late if she's the one puking. Not eating is a big red flag.
Edited to add: definitely get a ketone test tonight after the no shot this morning. Something is going on. Her PS numbers are getting higher. She's not yowling for breakfast.
Cheddar is sick. Yesterday he was sneezing every couple minute, and when I got home today, there was a lot of discharge from his eyes. Chloe is not lethargic. She's walking around looking for food, I think. I'm more worried about Cheddar.
Hopefully it's not contagious to the others. I would still get the ketones test in ASAP just to be safe. That way if they both need to be seen by the vet maybe you can get them seen on the same day.
Cheddar messed up my computer again and I can't figure out what he stepped on to make the display go upside-down and the cursor go in the opposite direction from where you want it to go. Chloe wasn't yowling for food this morning, but maybe she nibbled on some dry food during the night.
If you're on a PC: Hold Ctrl + Alt at the same time, then press the left or right arrow directional key.
Did you get a ketone test?
Thanks! I guess I'm not the only one this happens to. I don't know where Chloe is. I think she found a new hiding spot since I got Cheddar. I wanted to get some mid-cycles today. Her behavior has gotten weird. She's chewing on boxes again (hasn't done that for a long time) and she chased Fuzma back into Fuzma's room. Chico, however, is getting along great with Cheddar as I had hoped. I wanted to give Chloe a break from Chico, but I guess she misses his attention.
I would find her and show her she's still "queen". Give her attention and get a test to make sure she's not throwing ketones.
Stress can increase BG.
View attachment 31525
View attachment 31525
Yes, I caught her peeing this morning. She was missing the box a bit. No Ketones unless the clay affects the strip. I'm the one who's vomiting this morning. My esophogus is on fire. I think this may be heartburn and the coffee was too acidic.
Chico has his mini-me who follows him around everywhere.
That doesn't work on my Chromebook. I have to go into settings, then display, but the cursor goes any which way. It's hard to control.
Cheddar went to the vet today with a nasty upper respiratory infection. I have to give him Clavamox for 2 weeks. Luckily, it's on the same schedule as Chloe's Prozinc.
@StephG I'm very pleased with Chloe's numbers the past couple days. I'm adding some l-lysine powder to their food, but I don't know if that has anything to do with it. She's taking Cheddar in stride and seems to be enjoying his antics with Chico as much as I am. Chico doesn't bother her anymore. If Cheddar goes over to Chloe, she just gives him a few knocks to his head and he gets the message.
LOL knocking some sense into him huh?
Chloe's numbers were great yesterday and this morning! Maybe she's getting used to being in lower numbers and bouncing less. I've seen others using l-lysine but I haven't really done any research on it to know the benefits.
I say if it's helping, great!
Please go to Chloe 16 unless you want to see the photos of Cheddar.
Separate names with a comma.