Chloe 18

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by srk4cats, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

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    Jan 19, 2017
    I got some mid-day tests and Chloe is still way too high (286 @ +6). I think I should raise her to 2 units. Do you agree?
     
  2. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I suggest you wait to see her PMPS because she dropped all day 2 days ago. If she's up at PMPS you can try 2 u but I'd get a t+2 test in the evening.
     
  3. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Nice job with the mid-cycles! Yes, I agree with Kris, let's see what the PMPS looks like since her numbers have been slowly dropping all day.
     
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  4. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

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    I am befuddled. She keeps going back to her food dish for a couple hours after I've given her shot. But the her PM +2 was only 180. I'll do another curve today since I increased her dosage. I've been trying to give her shot closer to the time she starts eating. She runs into the bedroom and jumps on the bed when she sees the needle. But then she returns to the kitchen and eats some more.
     
  5. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

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    @Djamila, @Kris & Teasel I just caught her peeing on the top of the couch. Sorry folks, I ran for paper towels before getting a ketone strip. After mulling it over, I narrowed it down to two possible causes: (1) It's the spot on which Fuzma jumps from to get to the top of the kitchen cabinets. None of my other cats are able to do it, so she's safe there, or (2) The green kitty litter box in my bedroom was outside drying because I cleaned it today. That's the one she likes to leave urine samples in (there's no litter in it). I had cleaned out one of the other litter boxes she used this morning, but didn't change the litter or add fresh litter. She's never done this before that I know of. She was definitely making a statement, because when I yelled her name, she jumped down, with urine flying everywhere.
    Anyway, I'll keep her on 2 units for a couple more days, but it's looking to me that her dose should be increased. Thoughts?
     
  6. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Three things:
    • yes, I think you can bump up the dose tomorrow to 2.25 u
    • sounds like a "protest pee" because her favourite litter box wasn't available
    • could also be a sign of a brewing UTI.
     
  7. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    My Tara used to be a demon for these. She was a real people cat - revelled in company and attention - but any time she didn't like any particular visitor(s) to the the house she'd pee near where they'd been sitting just after they left.

    The protest peeing drove me nuts but I just had to admire her for her extremely effective communication skills. She really was some cat. When I was moving away from the village where we first lived after I adopted her the natives said I could go wherever I liked but how dare I take Tara with me! I miss her ... :(


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  8. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

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    I have never heard of a 'protest pee' before. Is it a common term?
     
  9. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I've never heard it either, but I've seen Sam do them a couple of times! He doesn't like it when I travel so he'll try to pee in my suitcase while I'm packing. He's been successful twice. :eek: I've learned to never ever leave the lid open and walk out of the room!

    And yes, I'd say go for it with the increase. Those mid-cycles are really helpful in seeing that she needs a bit more insulin, and that she's safe to get it. I do worry about Chloe if she gets a UTI - an infection could throw her into DKA again, so do keep an eye on that (and the checks for ketones) and take her to the vet ASAP if she goes off her food. Although checking for ketones wouldn't have been my first thought either if my cat was peeing on the sofa!
     
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  10. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    No, I just made up the term “protest pee” to fit that situation. There’s also a “protest poop” ... ;)
     
  11. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

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    Jan 19, 2017
    I emailed one of those free on-line vets to ask about Cheddar's sucking on Chico. She said it will stop eventually. I hate when they do it on my lap.
     
  12. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

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    @Kris & Teasel Chloe was off the chart at HI this morning. I only raised the dose by .25. What's going on?
     
  13. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Can you do a second test and see if it was a wonky test strip? That does seem unusually high given the rest of her recent numbers.
     
  14. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

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    I have to run over to Walmart to pick up the strips. They go so fast. I could test her with the Everpaw, but she is eating and acting normal. I need to be more organized and give her the injection 15 minutes after she starts eating. When she sees the needle, she goes to the bedroom and jumps on the bed, but she immediately returns to the food afterwards.
     
  15. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Yes, having a high reading wouldn't make her act any different. If the HI reading is accurate though, it may mean that the dose increase was too much. However, if the HI reading was a wonky strip, then the increased dose might be just fine. Knowing if that was accurate or not would make the difference in the next step for Chloe.

    Also, I don't see the dose increase on the spreadsheet. Which cycle did you make the change?

    After you get the new test strips, check her somewhere during the cycle today and we can see if we can figure anything out from that.
     
  16. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

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  17. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

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    About 3 days ago, I increased from 1.75 u to 2 u. How long is a 'cycle'?
     
  18. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    A cycle is the 12 hour interval between shots.
     
  19. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

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    so that would be 6 cycles then.
     
  20. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, 3 days = 6 cycles.
     
  21. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

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    Chloe gave me another urine sample in her empty green litter box. Negative for ketones. She also reminded me to give her her shot. I was absorbed on the computer and she came in and started meowing. It seems she has the routine down better than me.
     
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  22. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    It's always nice when they help us out! Is there any chance Chloe is getting into Chico or Cheddar's food? Or do they eat 9Lives too?
     
  23. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if 2 units is too much on a blue preshot... If you get another blue preshot and decide to give her 2 units, you should get a +2 and/or +4 to see how fast/far she's going down. That HI could be a bounce.
    It looks like she gets 3 cycles between her blues. So... if that's a real pattern you might see a lower or blue preshot tomorrow evening, possibly the morning.
     
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  24. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

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    This is what happened. I've been taking siestas in the afternoons during mt winter break. So I did so today. I was in such a deep sleep that when I woke up I thought it was the next morning. I gave Chloe her BG test before I got out of bed and realized that it was 4 pm on Sunday. It was about 160. So I fed the cats dinner. Two hours later, I did another BG test and she was in the 500's. So I fed them again and gave Chloe her shot straightaway. At least I got her back on my work schedule.
     
  25. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    That's a huge jump. What did she eat for her early dinner?
     
  26. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    Sep 8, 2016
    Yes that is a big jump from food. Chuck did the same on prozinc but he wasn't on the right dose either.
    I would get some tests tonight if you can. Maybe a +4 to see if she's responding to to the insulin and hopefully she'll be out of the black numbers.
     
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  27. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

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    The usual, 9-Lives pate. She did spit it up later.
     
  28. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

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    @Djamila Please look at her SS and tell me why she's bouncing so drastically. I'm getting frustrated. Is 2 units too much or not enough?
     
  29. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I really wish I could tell you. Typically numbers like this are caused by a cat getting some higher carb food. Carbs, even just as a snack, make numbers erratic - highs and lows in unexpected places, cycles with no response to the insulin and then cycles with too much of a response to the insulin.... But Chloe is eating a low carb flavor of 9 Lives, isn't she? So assuming she doesn't get into any other food, I really don't know how to explain what you're seeing.

    I'm starting to wonder if she might do better on Lantus or Levemir. Those two insulins tend to help bouncy cats to settle down. The dosing rules are quite strict, but sometimes that can help so you know clearly what to do. Would you want to consider a switch? You've certainly given Prozinc a fair try at this point.
     
  30. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

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    I've been feeding several pate flavors to Chloe. I'll check the chart and see if there's a difference between them. I'll also email the vet.
    Thanks.
     
  31. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    She came down nice from the 500s. Any plans on getting any spot checks today or tonight?
    Could she be getting into the other cat's food? Or are they eating the same stuff?
     
  32. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

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    No, I don't think she gets into the other cats' food. They get into HER food. It may have been a fur shot this morning.
     
  33. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

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    Poor Chloe. Chico and Cheddar are bullying her. Every time she goes into the bedroom for her BG reading or shot, they wait there and jump her. Chico has gotten really big and probably weighs twice as much as Chloe. Cheddar is almost full-grown and chases her too. This started about a week or two ago. Chloe doesn't like them anymore.
    btw, I upped her dose last night.
     
  34. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Is Chloe showing any unusual clinical signs? Wondering if the other kitties might be picking up on something. Or it could simply be jealousy over what they perceive to be Chloe just getting extra attention at test/injection times, not making the connection to the necessities of insulin treatment.


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  35. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

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    I don't know. Fuzma has been bullied for years. Genghis Khan may have taught it to Chico before he died. Now Chico taught it to Cheddar, so it's become a tradition. Just the past couple days, Chloe hasn't come running for her shot and I've had to look for her. She's found 2 news places to sleep. I actually witnessed Chico threatening her today on the couch. He climbs up to the counter above her and looks down at her as she hisses and has her ears back all the way. Maybe it's because I went back to work this week after having 2 weeks off at home. Maybe Chico is feeling insecure because Cheddar is almost as big as he is and isn't so easy to beat when they wrestle. Or maybe Chico's doing it to get my attention. I just let the boys outside. Aahhh...
     
  36. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Men! :banghead:

    Might be an idea to keep an extra-close eye on Chloe for the time being just in case there might be something sub-clinical going on at the moment. I hope the aggression towards her stops, not least of all because stress can trigger urinary tract problems. (((Chloe)))


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