Chloe 19

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by srk4cats, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    @Djamila @StephG
    Hello. I hope you're having a good weekend. Chloe's been in the yellow for a few cycles, so I'm going to try 1.5u tonight and do a curve tomorrow.
    th0ughts?
     
  2. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    I'm sure I sound like a broken record, but there is no way to know how the dose is working without the mid-cycle tests. You have no way of knowing if she needs an increase or not when all you're looking at is the pre-shot number.
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  3. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    What does it mean when the BC is flat?
     
  4. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    It can mean that she went low in a previous cycle. After a low, many cats will have several flat cycles. Or it can me insufficient insulin. The only way to know is to continue getting mid-cycle tests more than once/week. Since you work during the day, that means getting mid-cycle tests at night.
     
    Critter Mom and Kris & Teasel like this.
  5. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    @Djamila @StephG Poor Chloe is bouncing all over the place. When I increased the dose from 1.5 to 1.75, she went way up in the black, so I came back down to 1.5 again. Today at mid-cycle, she only went down to the yellows. How much should I give her to get her back in the blues and greens?
     
  6. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I suggest a full curve at 1.5 u tomorrow if you're off, Roberta. Daytime tests are hard on work days but aim for a before bed test every work day to fill in the data picture a bit more.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
    Rachel, Critter Mom and Djamila like this.
  7. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Yes to what Kris said. It's great that you got a test today, but we need more than one day to know what's happening. Post after you get a test tonight and do a curve tomorrow and we'll be able to have a better sense of what's going on.
     
    Kris & Teasel likes this.
  8. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    This is odd. I took a reading at +11 and she hadn't changed much. At dinner time, she wasn't yowling for food, so I didn't give her any and didn't give her a shot. Now, 3 hours later, she's at 134. Any idea what's going on?
     
  9. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    That doesn't make sense to me. Why didn't you give her a shot?
     
  10. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    S
    She's still not eating and lethargic. She attacked Fuzma last night because she was in her spot on the bed, and peed all over the bed. I had just changed the sheets that day. Then, after I calmed her and put her on the other side of the bed, she vomited, but it was clear. She's not feeling well today.
     
  11. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Skipping a shot after a DKA episode can be dangerous. She was high enough that you should have given her the shot anyway and then given her small amounts of food at a time to get her to eat, using treats, chicken, tuna, parmesan cheese - whatever you could entice her with. If she's still lethargic and not eating, a vet visit will be in order again as she may be going back into DKA again.
     
  12. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I agree with Djamila. You should have given a shot and fed small amounts to her. ProZinc isn't a fast onset insulin so there's no need to have a full meal on board before a dose. Chloe has had DKA twice and that makes her highly vulnerable to more episodes. You have to be extremely vigilant about testing, dosing, feeding and so on. There's no margin for error or inattention in her case.

    I wouldn't delay a vet visit if she doesn't perk up today.
     
  13. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    If she won't eat a little before a shot - which absolutely CAN'T be skipped - puree a bit of her low carb food with a little water and give her a syringe feeding. Even a tablespoon of food prepared this way and syringed into her will be enough to give her a full dose. If necessary give her another syringe feeding a bit later. You're trying to prevent another DKA episode. If ketones start to build they can make them nauseous and lethargic. I wouldn't dither in this case.
     
    Djamila likes this.
  14. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    I gave her 1 unit at 7:30 am and at 9:45 am, her BG hasn't changed a bit. And she still hasn't eaten. It's looking like another vet visit. What could change her ketones so quickly? Could it have been the fight she had with Fuzma last night? It only lasted a few seconds, but when I turned on the light, I saw a couple drops of blood on the sheet.
     
  15. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    No dose last night and a reduced dose this AM. Also, the ProZinc onset might not happen until closer to +3.

    They can go from zero to high ketones very quickly, in hours. She's had two NSs recently and you don't have enough data either from daytime or evenings to really know how the 1.5 u dose has been working. Did you do an immediate retest on 09 Feb when she had that 51 in the AM? We always recommend a retest when an out of the ordinary number pops up. It might have been a dud test and you might have been able to dose.

    It might be part of the perfect storm. Ketones build when they aren't eating enough, haven't received enough insulin, are dehydrated and there's another stressor of some sort, usually infection or inflammation. A cat fight is a stressor too.

    You absolutely need to start syringe feeding now. You also have to haunt her in the litter box to get at least one urine ketone test today.
     
  16. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    What is syringe feeding. Is it putting food in her mouth?
     
  17. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Go to any pharmacy and buy a plastic syringe in the 20-30mL range, no needle just plunger/barrel assembly. Mix a little low carb wet food with enough water that when it's well blended it'll be able to be sucked into the syringe. Feed small amounts of that at a time to Chloe. Go online and Google videos of how to syringe feed a cat. There are lots out there.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
    srk4cats likes this.
  18. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Thank you. I had a few of those from when Chango and Cheddar were sick. I used it to get some watery food down her throat. Her BG is down finally.
     
  19. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    I want to add that the curve they are suggesting and extra tests are very important.
    If you give her a dose that is too much, she will go down low enough to cause a bounce. Those high numbers from the bounce are just as bad as high numbers from food. They can last longer too. So, you need to find out how the dose is working to see if you need to feed her more food or adjust the dose to keep her in a good range. Feeding more food is probably the best idea because she NEEDS the insulin to keep ketones at bay.
    For now, syringe feeding her is a must and giving her the insulin.
    I hope she's not going into DKA but the quicker it's caught, Chloe's chances are better.
     
  20. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    She's been under the bed the last few hours. I got her out and she drank a lot of water and took of BG reading of 225. I'm going to force feed her now. She's very weak.
     
  21. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    If you can't get a ketone test in, it might be easier to take her to the vet.
    She sounds like she's in very bad shape.
     
    Djamila likes this.
  22. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    If I was you, I'd be in the car on the way to the vet now.
     
    Teenuh, Kris & Teasel and Djamila like this.
  23. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Yes, I'm going now.
     
  24. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Oh, goodness. What a way to end a Sunday. Sending positive thoughts to you & Chloe.

    Please keep us posted.
     
    srk4cats and Caitlin M like this.
  25. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Chloe is back in the hospital with another DKA. This time, they're going to do an abdominal ultrasound. Every time she goes to hospital, it costs me a month's wages. I will make an appointment with my regular vet for next week to find out if I should switch insulins.
     
  26. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I'm very sorry that Chloe is having another bout of DKA, Roberta. She's obviously very vulnerable to that. You might have better luck flattening her numbers with an insulin like Lantus or Levemir but as we've said before, they require a more intensive monitoring approach. There are fairly strict rules about keeping to an exact 12/12 dosing schedule, when to change dose, etc. I know you've posted on that forum before asking for input. I suggest you read more about how these insulins work:
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/lantus-levemir-what-is-the-insulin-depot.150/
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/lantus-levemir-start-low-go-slow-method-slgs.129446/
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/lantus-levemir-tight-regulation-protocol-tr.1581/

    They're likely looking for inflammation or other issue with the ultrasound. That can be part of the DKA picture. Unfortunately, a lot of the rest of it will be on you to watch her like a hawk, have a strict testing routine, syringe feed if needed, etc. It's worth it, though, if you can prevent more of these episodes, spare Chloe the negative health effects and spare yourself the astronomical expense of treating them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
    Teenuh, Djamila and Rachel like this.
  27. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Abbott Precision Xtra meter is a meter that tests for Ketones & BG. Supplies are probably expensive like the AT, but maybe something to consider if you can't test her urine.
     
  28. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    I'm sorry to hear Chloe is having another episode of DKA. I know you don't want to keep going on this merry-go-round and neither does she.

    I would try really hard to get a solid routine down (giving insulin & food & testing for ketones) for the sake of Chloe, your sanity & bank account.

    I don't want to keep repeating what these ladies said. Hoping Miss Chloe is feeing better today though.
     
    Rachel and Kris & Teasel like this.
  29. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    The vet said that the abdominal scan showed pancreatitis, but Chloe started eating right afterwards. The vet also said that this time she will make a decision about which insulin to use and how much. I've been staying on a routine for the most part. Should I give her the shot within a certain time from when she starts eating? She eats for a long time. Is there medication to help get rid of pancreatitus?
     
  30. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    A cat with Pancreatitis doesn't mean they don't ever eat. They have "flare ups". Pancreatitis isn't like a UTI. Antibiotics doesn't cure it. I'm speaking from a medical perspective on humans though. @Djamila please correct me if I am wrong for felines.
    You learn to manage the symptoms with "lifestyle" changes (diet specifically), or you remove the gallbladder and sometimes-usually are forced to make dietary restrictions. Treatment options vary by person and whether the person is acute or chronic. I imagine it is similar to felines.

    It does cause pain. Did the vet offer Tx options, or medication?

    I mean routine as in: Test, Eat, Shoot. Don't go off that path, or try not too. Like @Kris & Teasel said even just a little bit of food is better than nothing and syringe feed is needed. I give Gracie her shot as she is eating. I just need to see that she is going to eat something.

    With the new Dx it will be extra important for you to pay close(er) attention to Chloe.
     
    Rachel likes this.
  31. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    This is in addition to her DKA state, correct? The pancreatitis could be the inflammatory event that, along with not enough insulin, not eating , etc. brought about the DKA. Your vet should be able to explain all that to you.

    With ProZinc or Lantus (if you go to that) she only needs to eat a little in order to get the shot. So let her eat a tablespoon or so, give her dose and then let her take as long as she wants to eat the rest.

    Your vet should advise. Treatment is aimed at symptoms and can include pain meds, antinausea meds, appetite stimulant and sometimes subQ fluids. Ask a ton of questions of your vet and make notes. I seems you'll be dealing with two issues, the pancreatitis and the DKA - related but separate.
     
  32. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    It'll have to be kept religiously and all the time along with more monitoring than you're accustomed to doing.
     
  33. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    I agree with Kris. Taking notes is super helpful. It allows you to go back and reference. If you have trouble taking notes or would just rather focus on what he/she is saying --ask the vet to write it down for you. I'm sure he/she would be more than happy to.
     
  34. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    PS: I suggest setting a reminder or an alarm on your phone. You can set several.
     
    srk4cats and Kris & Teasel like this.
  35. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Yes! I agree 100%
    They are expensive strips and I believe you need to get them from the pharmacy.
    You could test once or twice a week to keep costs down. I'm certain it is much cheaper than treating DKA at the hospital.
    I used to let Chuck eat for 5 minutes, long enough for me to put his food down then go draw up the insulin, then give his shot while eating. I still do this on lantus.
    I'm sorry Chloe has DKA again. Her symptoms seem to be the same each time so you know what to look for now.
    I agree with Kris that the testing and protocols on lantus are more strict and are pretty clearly written on what they expect. I don't want to scare you away from lantus or levemir. Just trying to say you should be prepared to focus more on Chloe than you normally would have to on prozinc.
    Once she is regulated on a dose and you have tested long enough to see that patterns the testing can become less often but rarely only preshot tests. It took us about 6 months before I could relax my testing schedule. BUT I STILL get curve balls thrown at me from Chuck. So it's important to test even after you know how she reacts... Even almost a year down the road!
    I hope Chloe recovers quickly. There's a lot of kitties on here with pancreatitis. I'm sure you could get a lot of tips and info from others if you post on the main health forum asking for advice on ketone prone cat with pancreatitis. Food, supplements to ask your vet about.
     
  36. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    good idea
     
  37. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    How is Chloe right now? Is she still at the vet, or did they release her?
     
    srk4cats and StephG like this.
  38. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    I just came back from visiting her. She was back to her perky, purry self. The doctor wasn't there, but the tech mentioned something about potassium. What's that about?
     
  39. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Rachel likes this.
  40. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Rachel likes this.
  41. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Next time you are confused on something--don't be afraid to ask them for clarification. Remember you don't speak vet language. Even if the vet isn't there--you should request they call you, so ask your questions. Any sensible vet would have no problem doing this.

    Glad to know Miss Chloe appears to be perky and and full of purrs. I'm sure that is a relief. :)

    I would take this time while she is at the vet to get things in order at home in terms of routine. If you haven't already-- figure out how you will test for ketones. If you need to buy a testing kit I would order it SAP to avoid any delay.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  42. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    I really think a meter that tests for Ketones is necessary for Chloe. It can save you so much money and keep Chloe from getting so sick.
    I've actually been thinking about getting one for Chuck. He's become a pro at digging up the plastic wrap I put in his box to get a sample. He's a snob. :joyful:
     
    Rachel likes this.
  43. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    I agree...the blood ketone meter is a MUST. It should detect ketones faster than urine and will be easier for you sure.
     
    Teenuh likes this.
  44. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    I'm thinking of keeping Chloe locked in my bedroom for awhile with food and water, at least when I'm not home. When I keep an empty litter box in there, she pees in it and it's easy to get a ketone test. Ketones seem to pop up very quickly. I had gotten a ketone test less than a week before she got sick and it was negative.
     
  45. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    I guess that could work, but I personally don't see that as a good solution. Maybe very short term. Is this only until you get a ketone meter?

    Ketone meter will avoid the havoc of keeping her secluded. You wouldn't have to do anything different. It would just be a new meter.

    Is cost a concern of the new meter? I know you've spent a lot on Miss Chloe lately.


    I don't know about Chloe, but if I keep a door shut in my apartment Gracie goes nuts and finds a way to get it open.

    Any update of when she will be released, or if you are switching insulin?
     
    Kris & Teasel likes this.
  46. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I agree about investing in a blood ketone meter. I also like the earlier advice about getting all your organizational ducks in a row before Chloe comes home.
     
  47. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Who are we kidding. Our felines own us. Hahaha
    Oh, you don't want that food? Let me open another 4 cans . . . :rolleyes:
     
    Caitlin M, StephG and Kris & Teasel like this.
  48. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Chloe's coming home tonight!!!!! I think when I'm at work, the cats just sleep, so I don't think she'll mind being isolated. She might like the break from the boisterous boys. I had Fuzma shut in her room today while I was at work. The boys harrass her, too. I know that Chloe hates it when I shut her in the room while I'm home and not in her room with her, because she yowls. Did you know that cats only vocalize to their humans? They don't talk to each other, except maybe to hiss. How much does a ketone meter cost? I have a ton of ketone strips and know how to get a sample easily.
     
  49. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Teenuh likes this.
  50. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
  51. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Then I suggest you test her daily for quite a while after she comes home. She'll be in a vulnerable state.
     
  52. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    I'm still pushing and advocating for the meter. It is ONE step. The strips will require more work on your end and consistency.

    Glad she is coming home though!

    Just remember having a solid plan and following through is essential for Chloe's health. Ask the vet any questions you may have.
     
    StephG and Kris & Teasel like this.
  53. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    It's raining and I got lost on the way home from the hospital (no light pollution here). We finally made it home and Chloe ran straight under the bed. They put her on 2.5 units of Prozinc.
     
  54. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE monitor her VERY close!
    1.5 units dropped her under 100 for her next preshot on a yellow the night before.
    Getting a +3 or +4 each cycle will give you an idea if she's going to drop too low. You might need to increase her food in order to continue the 2.5 units. If she won't eat enough, increase the carb level of the food.
     
    Teenuh likes this.
  55. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    I'm sure I sound like a broken record right now, but what is your plan for testing for Ketones, BG, and feeding and shooting?

    You REALLY need a plan if you have intentions of keeping Chloe alive and healthy!

    I prefer to write down what I need to do. I have this on top of my shoe box which is where I keep testing supplies.
    example:
    1. Test BG
    2. Feed
    3. Shoot (if necessary and while she is eating)

    You should create something similar.

    Then you should create another note of-- >If Ketone test is positive what should I do: And write any special instructions.
     
  56. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    We’re all very worried about that large increase in dose. At least give her the safety cushion of higher carb food. Roberta, we really want the best outcome for Chloe. Did the vet give you an at-home action plan since this is her third bout of DKA? This doesn’t have to happen again ... :(
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  57. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Chloe tested at 519 this morning and I'm very concerned that she might bounce and have a hypo with such a high dose. I think I'll take off a few hours of work this morning to monitor her, but I have to be at work by noon. I also have to give her Clavamox. The vet also said to follow up in a week, so I emailed my regular vet the 2018 spreadsheet and said I'll call when they open to make an appointment for next week.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  58. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    I just went over her labs (this time I had the foresight to ask for them). They did curves and the glucose levels ranged from the four hundreds to 600's. She's eating well. I went ahead and gave her the 2.5 units.
     
  59. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Please test her at +2, Roberta. If she's going to dive it could show as a big drop (100+ points) at +2.
     
  60. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    She's at 435 at +2. That's a drop of 84. Should I test again at +4?
     
  61. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I would if you're at home. She's got a long way to go before hitting dangerously low numbers but the +4 data is good for your SS.
     
  62. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    She's still in sky high numbers and based on a comparison with what she did on much lower doses before this recent hospital stay, I'm concerned that she's bouncing up into the stratosphere at 2.5 u. Extra monitoring is crucial. I know you have to go to work this afternoon but I suggest you test her the minute you get in the door after work and aim for at least 2 evening tests.
     
    Djamila likes this.
  63. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    My stress level is through the roof! I met with the principal today and am having my observation next Tuesday. The last one I had was horrible, so I have to really plan this one out well. Anyway, I too am bothered by such high numbers and I haven't seen her pee. She's eating and drinking a lot. I made an appointment with her regular vet for next Thursday. We have Thursday and Friday off for the Fiesta de los Vaqueros (rodeo). I was told not to change her dose unless I check in with the vet first. I have to go to work tomorrow from 7:30 - 3:00 and I don't usually get home until 4. I can do a half curve on Saturday, but I have to be at a workshop at 12:30 pm. I fully expect to return home one day to find her dead and am thinking about euthanasia, but trying to hold out.
     
  64. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    I don't think that's necessary.

    As for the dose, if she is in the 200s I would be worried giving 2.5 units. Chloe was very sick at the vet and I think she gets stress elevated BG from going there.
    So, you absolutely can decide what dose to give her. She is your cat. If you feel like she will go too low, you can reduce or feed higher carb food.
    I know how stressful it is to leave and not know what you'll come home to... You hold the syringe. Getting some more +2, +4, and +6 numbers will help you decide if she needs less insulin or higher carb food on the lower preshots.
     
  65. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    I just want to point out I had to walk away from my laptop before responding, as I was a little upset.
    I really don't even know where to begin.

    Roberta, I'm sorry you are under stress at work. In my opinion if you can't take care of Chloe the way she needs and deserves then you need to find someone who can and will. It is not fair to her, but under no circumstance do you need to euthanize her. <------- That is my opinion. She just needs consistent care and this is something you can do-you just need to put in the effort.
    But, I promise you is doable.

    Have you purchased the Ketone testing kit? The one that tests for ketones and BG together? If you haven't seen her pee, or been able to catch it THIS is yet another reason why you need the ketone testing
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
    Rachel and StephG like this.
  66. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    She's down to 266 at +3. I'm hopeful. Goodnight.
     
  67. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Easy for you to say at age 28. I don't have that kind of energy anymore.
     
  68. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Sometimes I dig deep for the energy to take care of Chuck.
    Making a plan and sticking to it can help. Eventually it will become normal and easier to do.
     
  69. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    If only you knew. It's not easy for me--not at all. I'm tired--both emotionally and psychically. Some days I am only home for a few hours between class and work. I generally work nights and go to school during the day. I stress between homework and work. Sometimes when I'm home all I want is sleep, but I can't sleep. Gracie needs to eat, her BG checked, her litter box changed. Then I have homework and studying, and at some point I need to clean and cook. I live on my own. Nobody is there to cook for me, do my laundry, wash my dishes or pay my bills.

    I understand your energy level isn't what it used to be, and I don't and would never fault you for that.

    I hope Chloe continues to make positive progress.
     
  70. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Side note: I just read your signature and noticed Chuck Norris is AKA Satan. :joyful::joyful::joyful:
     
    StephG likes this.
  71. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Could you please give me an example of your plan? Mine is: get up, test, and feed. I think I'll stop waiting for her to finish eating before giving her the shot because that could be up to an hour. As soon as she sees the syringe, she runs to the bedroom and jumps on the bed. I give her the shot and she goes back to the kitchen to eat some more. She just gave me some urine-- outside the box in a corner of the kitchen. Negative for ketones. I'm going to have to set up a litter box there (with no litter). She pees (mostly) on an old shopping bag that's been there (who has time for housekeeping?). So, instead of covering the litter box with plastic wrap, maybe you should try plastic shopping bags. She called me and made sure I was watching. She's such a good kitty.
     
  72. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Here's is my schedule. I work full time, I'm a lot older than Teenuh ;), and I also do this all on my own:
    4:30am test/feed/shoot and go back to bed - it's all done in about 10 minutes. I don't wait for him to eat, just let him take a few bites so I know he's willing to eat
    6:30am get up and ready for work
    7:30am out the door test and leave for work
    4:30pm home from work, test/feed/shoot as soon as I walk in the door. Then if I have plans for the evening I still have plenty of time to go out and do other things.
    7:30-8:30 - another test to see how he's doing.
    9:00 bedtime - I'm not really in bed by this time, but I try really hard since sleep is important!

    Hope that helps. Waking up early for the test/feed/shoot in the morning has really helped since it allows me to get a +3 before I leave and know that Sam is safe before I leave for the day. It took some getting used to, but it's made a huge difference in my ability to care for him well.
     
    srk4cats, StephG, Rachel and 2 others like this.
  73. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    4:30 am is a bit early for me. I get up at 5:30 and it's still pitch black outside. Usually Chloe is yowling for food, so I do the test before I even make coffee. I only have 1-1/2 hours to get ready for work. If I can hold out to the Spring equinox, it won't be so bad, and during the summers here, you can't go outside after 7 am because it's too hot.
     
  74. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Getting a test before you leave at +1.5 can help see where she's going too. If she's already lower than her preshot you could give her an extra snack.
    What time do you get home on a normal day?
    Getting a test right after you get home, even if it's +10 or +11 can see if she has a big rise toward the end of the cycle or if she's surfing.
    At night, getting a +3 or +4 can help you decide if she needs an extra snack or if the dose needs to be adjusted.
    Setting an alarm for +6 or +7 can really help decide how she's doing on a dose.
    It doesn't have to be every night. But. If she's got a yellow preshot it's a good idea to make sure you get the +3 and if that number is the same or lower than preshot- make sure you get the +6 or +7.
    I've spent many nights on the couch worried about hypo or steering.
    It takes some effort and you might get a little less sleep but keeping Chloe safe is worth it.
    Feeding a medium carb or higher than her usual carb food can help you keep her on the 2.5 units. She needs the insulin to keep Ketones at bay so this might be the only way to keep her on a high enough dose to prevent ketones.
    If the food keeps her in high numbers, it can still trigger Ketones. So finding that balance is the hard part. Once you find that balance, you can relax a bit knowing she's staying in safe numbers while getting enough insulin.
     
    Teenuh and Kris & Teasel like this.
  75. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    I still think Chloe would do better on a long acting insulin like lantus or levemir.
    Maybe you can discuss this with your regular vet again.
    Chuck was really bouncy on prozinc. He would bounce from yellows.
    It is strict compared to prozinc protocol but I think she would benefit from it.
    You like giving the same dose each cycle. Both lantus protocols do the same dose each cycle. They have clear guidelines for when you decrease and increase.
    The only hurdle you'll face is testing more. But that doesn't mean a curve every day. You'll test more often in the beginning and with dose changes.
    Maybe you can do this once school lets out for summer?
    My vet was a little reluctant to prescribe lantus for Chuck. They don't use it at her office. But I convinced her that with my experience and guidance/research on this forum, I could use it and keep Chuck safe. Best decision I've made since he was diagnosed. Well second to deciding that he didn't need to be put to sleep like my first vet suggested. Jerk told me he only had one or two miserable and painful months left to live, even on insulin. We sure showed him he was wrong!
     
  76. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    I agree with Steph that a longer acting insulin should be tried for Chloe. And as for needing to test more often, this last round of DKA has more than proven that more testing is needed regardless. Continuing with testing only at pre-shots and an occasional mid-cycle is clearly not enough to keep Chloe (or any cat) safe, so whether you continue with Prozinc or switch to Lantus, you will need to find a way to test her more and thereby be able to match her dose to her needs. Steph has outlined a good plan for getting in more tests within the constraints you've given.

    So considering that you'll need to commit to testing her more going forward anyway, I really do think that talking to your vet about Lantus would be in Chloe's best interest. Aside from hopefully being better for Chloe, I think the insulin action on Lantus will suit you better as well as it's a more stable curve (less ups and downs) which might allow you feel safer leaving her when you go to work.

    I'm guessing you have spring break coming up in a few weeks. If you talk to your vet about it as soon as possilbe, you could have everything ordered and in place to begin that week when you could be home to monitor her through the switch.

    Here are some links to read to learn more about how to make this work:

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/lantus-levemir-start-low-go-slow-method-slgs.129446/

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...ion-possible-with-a-full-time-job-yes.129378/
     
    Rachel and Kris & Teasel like this.
  77. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Oh, I forgot about spring break! That's a great idea.
     
  78. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    @Djamila, such an early riser! Her schedule is more ideal. Mine is more all over the place and varies by week.

    One thing I am consistent on is testing.

    Test
    Eat
    Shoot
    If in doubt I will post on here. I would rather be over cautious.

    If I happen to be home for most of the day I try to get a few extra tests in just for data reasons. My SS is not an accurate reflection of my routine right now. She is OTJ so I don't test as frequent.

    You can do it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
    Kris & Teasel likes this.
  79. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    WTF! Please excuse my language, but are you kidding me?!? I'm glad you didn't put Chuck to sleep! This just goes to show that we know our animals better than a person with a fancy paper on the wall. Chuck, you have yourself a good mama!
     
    srk4cats, StephG and Kris & Teasel like this.
  80. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Yep, I left the office in tears, like really ugly crying. I tried diet change for 2 weeks. He suffered and lost more weight those 2 weeks. I called and said we are coming in today to start insulin. They still tried to talk me out of it. I left shortly after. Hindsight, I wonder if he was purposefully trying to kill my cat. Gee started him on 7 units ProZinc twice a day. That's how I ended up here. FDMB saved his life!
     
  81. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    How many times can I say WTF today. RIDICULOUS!!!! SOOOOO glad you found FDMB! I'm glad I found it too!!
    I think I ugly cried when I got the diabetes Dx over the phone, and I'm pretty sure I ugly cried at the vet when I took her there on her first hypo. It was a little dramatic.

    Do you use this same vet?
     
  82. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    No, the day we started insulin was the last day he was there. We started with his new vet in Jan or Feb last year. She's super awesome. She is my side kick in this marathon. She lets me run the show and she backs me up when I need her.
     
    srk4cats likes this.
  83. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    My first vet who diagnosed Chloe suggested the same thing. I have 2 days off at the end of next week in addition to the weekend. Tucson has a traditional parade for the rodeo. I went to the rodeo once with my school and found it upsetting. I don't like circuses either. Basically, I don't like anything.
     
  84. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    My cousins do rodeo. He rides the bulls and she barrel races her horse.
    She was actually just crowned Miss Teen Rodeo Pennsylvania. She's so proud and a little of a local celebrity.
    I'm not a fan of the rodeo but the barrel racing doesn't bother me. The roping competition breaks my heart. Those cows must be terrified.
    Some call me a "bleeding heart liberal snowflake". Ppfft, at least I have a heart.

    How's Chloe doing?
     
    Rachel and Djamila like this.
  85. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Had to share:
    https://www.missrodeopennsylvania.com/2016-queens

    She's a swimming and track and field star too. She's my mini me. Our personalities are so similar we lovingly call her "Stephie-Jessie-Becky-Ann". My other cousin, Becky, us just like us too. Must be a family trait:joyful:
     
    Kris & Teasel and Djamila like this.
  86. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    I don't support circus'. It's probably good I don't want actual human kids. I'd never take them to zoo's either.
     
  87. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Steph, that's awesome! You're related to royalty!!!

    I didn't think there were any circuses anymore. Is that just a Seattle thing? We definitely have rodeos around here though!
     
  88. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    We had one in Sacramento a couple years ago. I didn't see one advertised this year. Perhaps they are fading out.

    We have a rodeo around here too! Never been though.
     
  89. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    That is right!! Can we say the same about . . . Mr. (I refuse to say his name).
    Steph, you are talking to a crazy animal lover. If I had the room and money I'd own a farm full of animals. My friends have chickens and I love going to see them. I'm a little animal-crazy.
     
    StephG likes this.
  90. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Uh oh, she just vomited. It's food. Maybe she was eating too fast. btw, I think a circus rolled through town here a couple months ago.
     
  91. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    She's eating again.
    I'm going to start a fresh thread, Chloe 20.
     
    StephG likes this.
  92. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Very likely she jut ate to fast. Gracie does that sometimes. I would recommend giving her a little smaller portion this round--just to prevent her from doing it again. This will help her slow down too.
     
  93. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    She threw up a couple hours later, too. But her numbers look great.
     
  94. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Have you tested for Ketones?
    I would try to get her to eat a spoonful at a time and see if she can keep it down.
    If not, you can try giving her something to settle her stomach. I use regular strength pepcid, 1/4 of a 10 mg tablet.
     

Share This Page