Chloe 9

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by srk4cats, Jun 30, 2017.

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  1. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    :joyful::oops: Didn't get home until 9:00 pm. She was at 394 and was hungry. I fed her YA but decided to skip her shot because it was so late.
     
  2. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    Chloe woke me up at 5:30 this morning with her yowling and so I tested her, fed her, and gave her the insulin shot. I had missed the PM shot yesterday. Anyway, in a way it's good because tonight I'm going to a cat video festival at 7:30, so I can test, feed, and inject her before I leave. I'm so excited about this video festival! It benefits non-profit cat shelters.
     
  3. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    Please get some mid cycle tests in today.
    Maybe a +4 and a +7.
    The fat 1 unit should be evaluated with mid cycle tests or a curve. She was doing ok on 1 unit-- getting two shootable preshots. Which is important so you don't have to skip shots and overwork her pancreas so suddenly. If the fat 1 unit looks better then we will be able to see if it's good enough for now or if a increase/decrease is needed.

    Have fun at the video festival.
     
  4. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Just a note too. If you feed her super late like last night, it could cause some tummy upset...my cats don't do well if they aren't fed on a pretty strict schedule. Enjoy the video festival and please do get some tests in today!
     
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  5. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    This happens with my civvie too! I was 30 minutes late with his mini meal this morning and he was puking. Fed him and he stopped. If I'm even later he will puke, eat some food, and repeat.
     
  6. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    There's YA that I leave out for free-feeding. I've seen her spit up a couple times, but it wasn't food. It was transparent. I hope to get in a mid-cycle today. The last time, I was late, she got all blues the next day.
     
  7. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    My SS is completely messed up and I can't figure out what's wrong. So I put a background color on the line before today. I checked my meter a couple times and still can't figure it out. So I decided to start over today, Sunday, July 2nd. AMPS was 245. To top it off, I'm not sure if it was a fur shot, so I estimated she got about 1 unit. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.
    The good news is that the Cat Video Festival was hilarious. I had to really concentrate on my breathing to not get hiccups. Most of the funny clips were things my cats have done over the years, but with narration, it was hilarious. Just now, I went outside to find Chico and didn't see him. I'm dreading the day he figures out how to jump the wall. Of course, I'm terrified that he got taken by a coyote and opened the gate to check outside the yard, when he finally decides to show up. Then he rolls around in a pile of dirt because he knows I'll brush him before letting him in, and he enjoys that. Oy. I'm thinking of posting some of his antics on YouTube. Did you know that there's a book about how to make your cat famous on the internet and make a lot of money?
    Oh yes, I think I'm turning into a cat and becoming crepuscular, and that's why I haven't been able to get midday shots.
     
  8. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    1 unit on the 245 should be a good dose. If that's what she got. Hard to tell with fur shots. I would make a note on the SS saying possible fur shot.
    Try to get a mid cycle today. Even though you suspect a fur shot it looks like it would be a good one to get some tests in, even if it's just one around +6.
    I love watching cat videos. Simon's cat animation videos are hilarious.
     
  9. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    Y
    They showed a hilarious Simon's Cat video. I found out about Simon over 10 years ago, when he had only done about 3 ot 4 videos. I was studying Flash at the time and did a report on him. Have you seen any Henri videos? He's a depressed cat speaking with a French accent. I'm going to test her now.

    She's at 400, so I changed this morning's shot to a fur shot.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
  10. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    Chloe had her morning reading at just past 6 am, but I'm going to a party the starts at 5:30. If I get home before 9:30 pm, I will test her and give her her dinner and shot then. Is that okay to do?
     
  11. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    That's pretty late. Are you going to be able to give her the AM shot late and slowly walk shot time back? Is there any way you could arrive late to give her the shot tonight on time?
     
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  12. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I messed up. It's tomorrow night. I'm going to test her now at 7 pm.
     
  13. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    I see your note about eating well but not gaining weight.
    When their bg is not regulated they can't get the nutrients needed to gain. Free feeding YA might help so getting a weekly weight will show of it is or not.
    Chuck struggled for months trying to gain. It took about 7 months to gain 3 pounds. Still only maintaining 12 pounds with his extra food and snacks because his BG is not regulated. It's much better than before but not good enough.
    Keep trying to get mid cycle tests in.
    The blue at +4 on 7/2 pm cycle makes me wonder if a fat 1 unit is too much for a 200s preshot like on 7/3 pm cycle.
    The more you test the better control you will be able to get and she'll feel better and make remission a possibility. Until she's regulated... remission really isn't a possibility. Keep in mind though, some cats never go into remission. But why not try getting there for Chloe?! I'm still trying for Chuck... Might be trying to drain the ocean with a bucket but I'll keep trying!
     
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  14. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    What do you think about raising the dose from fat 1 to 1.5? I just did a 10:30 test (+3.5) and she's not as low as I would like (249). I will try to get a +5 tomorrow. Maybe I'll wait to see what that number is. She's still very hungry all the time.
     
  15. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you decide that after getting your +5 today?
     
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  16. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    I'm against going up to 1.5 units until you get another curve.
    This morning would be a good cycle to do it. 249 at +3.5 is only half way to what seems to be her nadir around +6(based on last curve)
    The curve on AM cycle 6/26 makes me think around 1 unit is the dose Chloe might need but until you get another curve we can't be sure.
    If you get the curve done it might show she needs more while she's in pinks or it might surprise you and show something completely different.
    +3,+6,+9 testing should be enough to see how she's doing.
     
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  17. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    A +4 and +7 would be helpful if you can't do the curve.
    On 7/2 pm cycle preshot was 310 and a fat 1 unit had her at 168 @+4... So I think it's a good dose but we need to make sure she's not bouncing into those pink preshots.
     
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  18. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Steph, no increase until some sort of curve on the current fat 1.0U dose. Prozinc doses are based on Pre-shot numbers AND NADIR. We're only seeing one part of the picture.
     
  19. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    I could do a semi-curve today. I have a doctor's appt at 11:00, so it would have to be a +3, +6, +9, and then I have another event at 6:00, so that would be my PMPS next and it might be slightly late.
     
  20. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    +3, +6, and +9 is a mini curve so that will due.
    How late will her PMPS be? If you're less than a half hour late you could probably still give the shot-- depending on her PMPS and if you can shoot at least 15 minutes later tomorrow morning too.
    So if you can give her the shot between 7 and 7:30 tonight and between 7:15 and 7:30 tomorrow morning it should be fine. But only for this occasion. I wouldn't switch up the shot times all the time. Easy to get messed up and shoot too early.
     
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  21. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    A mini curve is fine. My friends already know if there is an "event" scheduled to start when Maury is due for his routine that I will be fashionably late. My boy come first. :cat:
     
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  22. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    Same here. I show up fashionably late with cat hair stuck to me somewhere!
     
  23. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I've been fashionably late several times! My friends always understand that I gotta take care of my little ones!
     
  24. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    I think I passed the nadir (233) and the numbers are still too high. I think it's time to increase the dase to 1.5 u. Don't you?
     
  25. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    I'm not convinced... This could be a bounce cycle.
    If you do increase, please don't until you can get a +3 and +6 in the cycle. Be ready to test often and to steer with food if necessary.
    Anyone else have any input?
     
  26. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you Steph, looks like a bounce cycle. We need to see more mid cycle tests.
     
  27. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    What exactly is a 'bounce' and what causes it? I gave her fat 1 and I'll do one more test at 10 (+4). I would really like to get her numbers down. Also, what do you mean by 'steer with food'?
     
  28. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    When the numbers drop too fast or too "low" (can just be lower than their body is familiar with) the liver "panics" and tries to raise the blood glucose levels. It pumps out stuff that raises the numbers and this is a bounce. This will cause higher numbers making it look like the dose isn't enough. Sometimes the dose is too much but without mid cycle tests we can never know. That's why we all urge testing mid cycle and at different times. It can last 6 cycles.
    Chuck does this after blues and greens. He stays yellow or pink for a day or so. Sometimes red or black.
    Steering with food is controlling how fast or how far the numbers drop. You feed extra low carb, med carb, or high carb food depending on the situation. When to feed is determined by mid cycle tests if it's needed.
    I suggest looking over the yellow sticky threads at the top of the prozinc page as well as in the main health forum. There's a lot of info and a refresher could help. I read them often.
     
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  29. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    I feel the same way with Chuck. But it can take time to find the right dose for her needs at this time. It can change frequently too.
    With more testing we can help you narrow down the dose she needs now and try to help keep her in better numbers.
    I've had complete meltdowns over Chuck's numbers being high for so long. I've looked at my spreadsheet for hours trying to find a method to this madness but have realized I have to just go with the flow and patiently (sometimes I fake patience) try to get his numbers under better control.
    So my advice is to test test test... Random spot checks help and curves do too.
     
  30. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    I don't see where the numbers have been low for 6 or 7 cycles. They've been consistently high.
     
  31. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Yep, you'll need more data to see the low numbers. It looks like you haven't been able to get more than 1 or 2 mid cycle tests lately. Unfortunately, unless you're lucky, you won't likely catch the low numbers like that. As Steph said above, those low numbers that you didn't manage to catch cause those higher numbers that you did. If you can run a curve like we suggested before, that will really help. And mid cycle tests WHENEVER you can get them on every single cycle.
     
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  32. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    And it doesn't necessarily mean low as in double digits. It can be 100-200 points lower than their usual. Each cat is different so without more data we can't know for sure how she reacts.
    So those mid cycle tests will help see what's going on. One or two cycles really isn't enough since it could be a bounce.
    Any time you increase or decrease a dose you really should do a curve. To make sure she's not dropping too low or going too high.

    If you look at Chuck's spread sheet:
    On 7/2 pm cycle he was blue for most of his cycle. Those blues caused him to bounce for the next 3 cycles and then the 4th cycle he started to see blues again.
    While he's bouncing it looks like it's not enough insulin. Although he does need a slight increase to get better numbers you can see that the bounce makes it look like he needs more than a small increase.
    Edited to add:
    On 6/29 pm cycle Chuck saw greens. It took him 5 cycles to really clear the bounce and got the nice cycle of blues on 7/2. So each bounce can be a little different too. If only they could talk! That would make this much easier.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
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  33. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    It's great that you want to see Chloe getting some better numbers, and maybe even reach remission. That requires some skill and knowledge on your part in order to take care of her so that she can get there. It doesn't happen by chance. If it happens at all, it's because the owner takes great care in testing and dosing to help their kitty to heal. Reading the stickies at the top of the forum is a great place to start. The more you know and understand, the better you can help Chloe.

    At the beginning of a diagnosis, there is so much to learn that we can forget things which is why, as Steph said, it's good to go back and re-read things regularly. We all learn, and re-learn, things around here that help us to take care of our kitties. On one of your older threads, I explained a bit about testing, dosing, and bounces. In the next couple of posts, I'll re-send the information from the previous thread.

    Oh, and here is the link to that old thread so you can read through it again:
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/chloe.175418/
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
  34. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    This is a re-post from that previous thread:

    Let's imagine that it's morning. I think you said you were doing your tests and shots at 7:30, is that right? I'll use that time for now:

    1. 7:30a.m. The first thing you do is test and get a pre-shot number. We usually call this AMPS (a.m. pre-shot)
    2. Then you feed Chloe.
    3. If her blood glucose number is higher than 200, you give her a shot of insulin.
    4. The food she just ate will usually make her blood glucose (BG) go up for a couple of hours. This is normal in a diabetic cat.
    5. After about 2 hours, the insulin will start to lower her BG.
    6. After about 5-7 hours, Chloe's blood glucose will reach it's lowest point in the cycle. This is called the nadir. This number should never be below 50. If it's below 50, she's hypoglycemic, and it's very dangerous.
    7. After the nadir, the BG will start to rise again, and will continue to rise until the PMPS (p.m. pre-shot).
    8. At the pm pre-shot time (7:30pm for you), you test again, feed Chloe her dinner, and if her PMPS is higher than 200, give her some insulin.

    Okay, so that's how the cycle goes. But now what about the dose? Here is what happens:

    1. If you get the AMPS number, and give a dose that is too low, then a diabetic cat would have BG numbers that rise after eating, and then slowly over the day, the BG would stay more or less the same, or slowly go down until the PMPS. The numbers would be too high all day. If that goes on for weeks and months, it will make the cat sick.

    2. If you get the AMPS number, and give a dose that is too high, then the BG will drop too much. Here's where it gets tricky though: the BG number will drop, and then the cat's body panics and dumps stored glucose into the blood stream. If you are testing during the day, you will see the number go down, and then you will see it rise quickly as the stored glucose floods the cat's body. If you are NOT testing during the day because you are at work, then you will see the AMPS, and you will see the high number at the end (the PMPS), but you won't see that low number in the middle because you couldn't test at that time. So you'll see the high number at the end, and think that her BG is really high and she needs more insulin. But that is WRONG. She actually needs less insulin because that whole thing happened because she had too much insulin at the beginning of the cycle.

    So here is an example with actual numbers from one of our cats. The +1, +2, etc. is how many hours after the AMPS. The numbers are the blood glucose numbers:

    AMPS: 432
    +1: 478 (it went up a little because the cat ate breakfast)
    +2: 332
    +4: 147
    +5: 48 (at this point, the cat is hypoglycemic - the blood glucose is too low and it's dangerous - when this happens, it's important to give the cat high carb food and try to get the numbers to rise)
    +6: 52 (this is still very low)
    +7: 389 (see how high this number is now? that's a normal response when the BG has gone too low - we call it a 'bounce')
    +10: 402
    PMPS: 455

    So if the owner had only tested at AMPS and PMPS, it would look like a test of 432, and a tests of 455. The owner would think that the insulin wasn't helping, but really, it had been too much insulin, not too little.
     
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  35. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    This is a re-post from that earlier thread:

    So we've already talked about bouncing as it relates to the BG numbers dropping and rising sharply. But there is a second part of bouncing that you need to understand.

    BOUNCING - PART II

    After a kitty has had a sharp drop, the next cycles may be high and flat. This is how the kitty's body tries to recover from the drama of the bounce.

    On Sam's spreadsheet you can see that during the PM cycle on 3/5/17, he went from a PMPS of 386, to a nadir of 84. Now 84 is still a safe number, but it's more than a 50% drop, and it's lower than his body was used to at that point. Those two factors (more than 50% drop and lower than the cat is used to) cause him to bounce. Now during that cycle, I went to sleep, so I didn't get the test that would have shown his number go high, so just imagine that part.

    In the morning, of 3/6/17 (the next day) his AMPS was 255, and then all day, his numbers stayed pretty close to that (204, 209, 225, 247). We call that a flat cycle because it looks like the insulin isn't doing anything. However, that's a very normal response to the bounce from the night before.

    When that happens, you have to just ignore the lack of response, and stick with the same dose. It can take up to six cycles for the bounce to clear. During those cycles, it will look like the insulin isn't working. But you stick with the same dose anyway because the cat needs time to recover from the bounce. You'll know the bounce has cleared, when the BG starts to respond to the insulin again.

    This is why we generally don't recommend changing dose in reaction to the number you see during the PS - because the numbers aren't just individual numbers, they are part of a larger pattern, and being able to see the big picture is important in deciding what dose to give.

    It takes awhile to get enough data to know how your cat will respond, so being very cautious about dose changes in the early weeks is super important.

    Sam only takes about two or three cycles to clear a bounce. Lots of kitties take the full six cycles. We won't know how Chloe responds until we have a lot more data to look at.
     
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  36. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    And here are a couple of graphs that might help if you prefer visuals:

    This graph shows what a typical curve should look like when using Prozinc. This curve is from an owner that tested every hour. You don't need to to test every hour every day, but getting regular mid-cycle tests is the only way to know if Chloe is getting good cycles. Remember that this type of curve doesn't happen every single cycle. They only happen on responsive cycles. During bounce cycles you'll see flatter curves. That's why getting mid-cycles regularly is so important - you could miss these if you only get tests once in awhile.

    upload_2017-7-7_5-47-45.png




    This is what Bounce curve might look like:
    upload_2017-7-7_5-48-5.png



    And this is what a flat curve might look like:
    upload_2017-7-7_5-48-36.png
     
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  37. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    I finally got a urine test! She is negative for ketones! But her glucose came out brown when normal is blue. The other one that's very off-color is spe.grav/density. Hemolysis is high, pH is slightly acidic, protein is ++30?, nitrites are normal, and leukocytes are very high. Does that mean she has an infection?

    Also, I can't find the page on my SS for lab results. I know it was there before. There are already figures in there, but those are probably the normal ranges. How do I get the lab page back?

    btw, ty, ty, ty. You are all very patient with me.
     
  38. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    I still see the Labs tab on your SS
     
  39. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    My vet uses the strips but other members on here have said they are not reliable for UTI detection.

    Are you adding extra water to her diet? If not, I think you should. It can't really hurt to add a few tablespoons of water a day. Chuck gets 4 tablespoons in his food per cycle. He's not at the fountain as much now.
     
  40. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    If you get the AMPS number, and give a dose that is too low, then a diabetic cat would have BG numbers that rise after eating, and then slowly over the day, the BG would stay more or less the same, or slowly go down until the PMPS. The numbers would be too high all day. If that goes on for weeks and months, it will make the cat sick.
    I'm thinking that this is the problem after doing the +5.
     
  41. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    While that is a possibility, your previous tests show that the 1 unit can work.
    The only way to see if she needs more is by testing more.
    In my opinion +4 to +7 is the prime time to test on prozinc. It's at full activity and close to nadir. If others disagree, please don't hesitate to say so.
    You hold the syringe so you make the decision. But please make sure it's a safe one by planning on a few mid cycle tests on the first increased cycle. I also strongly suggest doing it on AM cycle first. They tend to go lower at night.
    I would still get a +3 or +4 on pm cycles after the increase if you decide to do it.
    Once you see lower preshots, in the 200s, you will need to get a few tests on that cycle too. 1.5 units can act much stronger on a 200s vs a 300+.
    Anyone else have anything to add or disagree with?
     
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  42. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree Steph!
     
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  43. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    They tend to go lower at night? The AMPS have been the highest for the past several days. I'm going to increase to 1.5 tomorrow AMPS if she is higher than 299.
     
  44. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    Some cats do. Not all.
    Testing at night is the best way to see how much she drops at night.
    Please get some tests in tomorrow if you increase. It's possible she could just need a little push to get back to better numbers and get the fat 1 unit working better... Time and tests will tell.
    The variation from day to day or week to week is one of the frustrating parts of FD.
    Edited to add: looking at Chuck's SS shows most of his green numbers are after 9pm. Rarely has greens during the daytime.
     
  45. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    If you are going to increase, please please listen to Steph's counsel to get mid-cycle tests in. First, to keep Chloe safe, and second to get the data to know if it's working. It doesn't do any good to move the dose around without getting the data you need to see if it's doing what you intend.

    Also, dose increases are recommended to be 0.25 at a time, not 0.5 at a time, so if you're going to increase, I would recommend going to 1.25 for several cycles first. The smaller increase give Chloe's body time to adjust to the change in hormones. Moving 0.5 at a time can be hard on them.
     
  46. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    I thought a fat 1 is the same as a 1.25 and that it would be a .25 increase to 1.5. Oh, and she eats like there's no tomorrow! and cries for more!
     
  47. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    The most important thing is that you're consistent in how you are pulling the dose. So if a 0.25 increase from where you are now is 1.5, then that's fine as long as her numbers warrant it, and you are going to get some mid-cycle tests to know if it's safe and working.

    As for the food, how much are you feeding her, what are you feeding her, and when are you feeding her?
     
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  48. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Roberta, these people have been giving you excellent advice. I know that you want to get Chloe regulated or, even better, into remission. They're giving you the exact steps to follow but you're the one who actually has to carry them out. A structured testing routine and careful dosing is the way to get there - there's no escaping that reality.
     
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  49. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    This morning she's at 157. Still eating like crazy. I haven't weighed her, but I can tell she's putting on some weight. What's that flap to the rear of the belly called? She's getting that again.
    OK, Kris, Steph, and Djmila. I trust your advice. I'm doing the best I can. I'm not a very structured person, generally.
     
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  50. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    To help Chloe, you will just have to force yourself to be more structured. We've had plenty of people here who have issues following a routine, but they found a way to do so to help their baby. You'll need to figure out what works best for you, be that setting alarms to test, writing down instructions to leave by the syringes, being late to events to make sure Chloe gets her insulin at the correct time, etc.
     
  51. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Taking the best care of these little critters forces all of us to change things in our lives. You just have to do what you have to do ... setting a schedule, setting alarms, missing events or arriving late/leaving early, etc., etc., etc. It isn't easy but it's necessary.
     
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  52. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Yes, I start back to work in a couple of weeks. But I won't be able to take pottery classes this fall.
     
  53. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    Jan 19, 2017
    PMPS - 184. Is she bouncing around? I'll try to get another test about 10 pm. She's always ravenous- is that normal?
     
  54. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    How much are you feeding her, what are you feeding her, and when are you feeding her?
     
  55. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    Sep 8, 2016
    I saw you posted about using the u100 syringes with the conversion chart. Are you still using them?
    I would try 1 unit or a skinny 1 unit on the 200s. You'll probably get two shootable preshots that way.
    184 it's pretty close to 200 so maybe the regular 1 unit will work. Getting the mid cycles will show how low she's going and give you more info on how much she could get on a preshot in the high 100s.
    Edited to add: I don't think the 184 is a bounce number. A normal curve on prozinc will look like a smile. So starting at 200s and then going down (how low, we don't know without a test) then going back up slowly to about the same as the previous preshot. Once you get the dose for this type of curve for almost every cycle, you tweak the dose to bring down the preshots to blues and then eventually greens. It can take a long time so patience and routine are important.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  56. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    Jan 19, 2017
    No, I quit using the u-100's long ago. I just need to order supplies before I run out. Chloe seems constantly hungry. I see her licking bowls even 2 hours after her shot. I'll do a mid-cycle test tomorrow.
     
  57. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    How much are you feeding her, what are you feeding her, and when are you feeding her? You've mentioned a few times that she's constantly hungry. We would love to help you with that.
     
  58. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    Sep 8, 2016
    I think you should try an even 1 unit tonight if she's in the 200s and get a +4 to see where she's going on it.
    I'm not sure how much you gave this morning because it's not entered.
     
  59. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    I give her a can of wet food after her BG reading and before AM shot. She is usually yowling for food. Once she gets it, she starts gobbling it up (I should take a video of it) and then Chico butts in and they take turns. I've seen her eating scraps off the floor and/or licking the bowls as much as 2 hours after her shot. When it goes up the sides of the bowl, she waits for me to come rearrange it in the middle and maybe add a little water. Then she goes to sleep until dinnertime. I was feeding her 9-lives and Fancy Feast. I sometimes leave YA out, but she's too spoiled to eat kibble. This morning, I caught Fuzma eating it. I don't mind that she eats so much because she was all skin and bones.
     
  60. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Do you know how much Chloe weighs, and has the vet ever said what her ideal weight would be?
     
  61. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    Jan 19, 2017
    I give her shot at around 7 am. Your time would be about 9 or 10 am. I will give her an even 1 unit tonight like you said, but you'll be asleep when I do a +4.
     
  62. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    Jan 19, 2017
    Right now, she weighs 8 lbs. When she was first diagnosed, 2/24/2017, she weighed 8.2 lbs. I guess she hasn't gained any weight. It just seems like it because she is more peppy.
     
  63. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Do you think you could feed her a little more during the day? So give her one 3oz. can at AM shot time, maybe a 1/2 can around +6, another full can at PM shot time, and a 1/2 can at bedtime? So altogether it would be 3 cans.

    Diabetic cats can't absorb their food very well when they aren't regulated, so sometimes they need to eat more. Two cans/day isn't a lot, and especially if Chico is taking some of that away from her.
     
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  64. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    Sep 8, 2016
    Chuck was the same way. I add 2 tablespoons of water to his food and it fills him up more. He gets 4.5 oz food for his meal, the rest of the can at +3 with a tablespoon of water and an ice cube. Then half an ounce FF pate with an ice cube at +6. Same for each cycle. It it's a lot of food but it helped him gain and he's maintaining at 12.1 pounds. Up from 9 pounds in September 2016.
    I also make it a priority to test any time he's acting really hungry. He does this when going low and sometimes just because he's a little piggy.
     
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  65. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Did you mean half a can of FF pate? Or is it really half an ounce? And I agree about testing when a kitty acts super hungry. When Sam acts hungry in the middle of the day, it's often a sign his numbers are on the move.
     
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  66. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    Sep 8, 2016
    There will be others online that can help. I believe we are 3 hours difference. The test is just to see how low she might be going. If she is between 100-150 around +4 I would give her a snack before bed.

    He only gets half an ounce of FF at +6. Sometimes it's closer to .75 ounce. Usually any more than that and it hits the brakes on the insulin. We might start another .5 oz at his double dip time of +9 or +10.
     
  67. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Ah! That makes sense now! Thanks
     
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  68. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    Jan 19, 2017
    The 9-lives is a 5.5 oz can. I usually let Chico outside to let Chloe eat. Also, Fuzma will come out to eat, too, when Chico is outside. Chico only likes to be outside when I'm there with him and, like me, it's too hot by 7:30 am. I'm getting my kitchen and bathroom floors re-tiled tomorrow. They have to rip out the old vinyl, so I'm sure it will take all day. I'll just close the doors to Chloe's room (our bedroom). Happy news! I found the nozzle to the Feliway spray under the fridge when I was cleaning. Once the floors are done, I will assign each cat their own bowl for food and feed them in the same place every day.
     
  69. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    PMPS -161. I gave them each their own bowl. I gave Chloe a 5.5 oz can and I split another can between Chico and Fuzma. They finished eating about 5 minutes ago, but Chloe is still going strong. Chico and Fuzma only ate half their portion, so Chloe is eating their left-overs and licking the cans. I'll let you know when she's finished eating.
     
  70. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    LOL...Sounds like she might take awhile! Now for a caution in the other direction: if she eats too much at once she's going to puke, so you might want to slow her down!
     
  71. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    Jan 19, 2017
    She finished at 6:50 and started licking her paws. So 20 minutes of non-stop eating. This is typical for her, but I haven't seen her vomit except for a hairball. Should I test her in 2 hours to see if her BG went up and if it's over 200, give her a reduced dose?
     
  72. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    No. Please only give a dose at dose time. If you give it two hours late it will mess up your morning shot time. She may very well be higher tonight since she didn't get insulin and also ate more than normal. Don't worry about it. And tomorrow morning just give her one unit, even if she's high. It looks like that fat 1 unit is a bit too much.
     
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  73. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    I agree with Djamila.
    Just skip the shot tonight and give her an even 1 unit tomorrow morning. That way you should get a shootable preshot in the evening too.
     
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  74. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    Jan 19, 2017
    Okay. I'd like to end this thread, though. It's too long. I started a Chloe 10 yesterday. Thanks.
     
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  75. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    Sep 8, 2016
    When a dose is too big it can give a low or late nadir.
    I think today it gave her a late nadir. You could still get the +2 just to see how much the food raised her bg levels and if her body might be helping. If you don't get a +2 tonight that is ok.
     
  76. Rachel D.

    Rachel D. New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    This spreadsheet is fantastic. Our cat, Gilbert, isn't cooperative enough at the vet to obtain a glucose curve, so we started one today.

    Can you please tell me how you created a graph from the spreadsheet in order to identify the nadir and curve? Thank you so much.
     
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  77. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    Sep 8, 2016
    I am going to private message you instructions I got from another member.
     
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