Chloe

I don't care if I break any ceramic bowls in the freezer. I've been taking pottery classes for years and have plenty, in addition to my regular dinner bowls. I've been reading about cat bowls and found out that saucers are best because cats don't like having the sides touch their whiskers.

 

What a great hobby! I've always wanted to try that!

So that's why! Years ago my sister gave me these really pretty food bowls for them and they hated them. They would paw the food out onto the floor and eat it from there. Now it makes sense!

 

Excellent! Getting a mid day tomorrow and then some 10pm tests during the week will really help you figure out the best dose for Chloe. You're doing great at this!

 

Also, I learned th

When I had the late, great, Pogo, I learned that plastic bowls can give cats acne. Now, the late, great Purr-C used to take food out of the bowl with his paw and eat it from the floor, but I thought the reason was that he had been in a foster home and was competing with other cats for the food. Now Chico sometimes drinks water from his paw, but I haven't figured out why because the other cats aren't around. Maybe the water has some cat hairs in it. I am still working on the perfect cat bowl where the food doesn't end up on the sides. If they're hungry, they'll pull back their whiskers and eat from smaller bowls. The bowls with steep sides are good for dry food or water.

 

37 I gave her some honey on her gums, she ate about a tbsp. of FF and I gave her some treats. Now I will give her .8 and pray. no seizures that I've seen

 

Don't give her insulin at this level!!!!

 

Wait...what?!?! Has she had any insulin since her shot at 7:10 this morning? And yes, good job on the honey.

 

NO insulin!!!

 

NO INSULIN!!!!!!

 

I think you already did. She's going to need to get her sugar up. I'm sure someone with way more experience sees this soon but you need to give her carbs and sugar.

 

37 IS A HYPO NUMBER DO NOT SHOOT!!!!!!!

 

Did you give her a shot?

 

I gave her the AM shot. That was her last shot until now. Maybe it didn't work right. I gave her .8 and she's eating more food. She seems fine. Should I test again in a couple hours or sooner?

 

sorry, I only just now saw your post. I gave her .8. She seems fine. Maybe the glucometer is wrong. I'll test her again in an hour.

 

Did you give her a shot just now?

 

IF YOU GAVE THE SHOT PLEASE GIVE HONEY/SYRUP AND HC FOOD AND RESTEST IN 20 MINUTES. 37 IS FAR TOO LOW A NUMEBR TO GIVE A SHOT. BY THE TIME YOU SEE A KITTY SEIZING THERE COULD ALREADY BE PERMANENT NEUROLOGICAL DAMAGE


PLEASE DO A RETEST RIGHT AWAY TO MAKE SURE THE NUMBER WAS CORRECT.

 

You need to test her now. Right now. We need to find out if that 37 was right.

 

WHY? I already gave her .8. What now?

 

I would test again right now. If she's that low, it's possible that you'll have a big problem in no time. I'm worried for you and kitty!

 

200 should be your cutoff level. 37 is so low. So scary low.

 

I would also make sure to have the contact info to an emergency vet handy. Maybe even call them now to see what they say.

 

If you shot insulin at that low of a number then you need to be very vigilant. A person yesterday had their kitty go into seizures from a hypo. By the time a kitty starts seizures there is already neurological damage happening. Her kitty went blind and had brain swelling but was at the ER so did manage to survive. A hypo can be a very serious event and not to be taken lightly.

PLEASE retest right away to confirm that that number was correct.

 

320. Maybe I didn't get enough blood on the test strip, although it usually gives me an error message for that.

 

My apologies for being so blunt but until you know EXACTLY what the numbers are and what is happening this is an emergency situation.

 

Please do another test to triple check. Hopefully that 37 was a bad reading

 

Yes, retest again. We need to be absolutely certain that her number is safe.

 

I think it was a bad read. She's finishing her dinner now. I'll test her again in a few minutes even though she's acting normally.

 

Please do a retest and post the numbers here right away. We are very concerned,. IF that 37 was correct this could be a very serious situation. Hoping that it was a bad read and the numbers are much higher,

 

Anytime you get a low reading like that...please retest once twice three times and make sure that the reading is correct. If in doubt at all DO NOT SHOOT...wait and retest again in 10 or 20 minutes but NEVER shoot a low number like that. When I saw the post with a 37 and you were shooting my heart fell into my stomach. Praying to the powers that be that the 37 was a bad read and that the numbers are high...sounds funny to be wishing for high numbers...but rather a high number than when you have shot than a low number like the 37.

 

Pretty please, Roberta....we are all staring at our computer screens having heart-attacks waiting for the number to be confirmed.

 

YES PLEASE give an update on the latest test number. There are some very worried people here

ETA Looks like Roberta is not on line now. I do hope that 37 was a bad reading but it would be good to have confirmation. I can't stay up much longer....20 hours since I have been up and very tired. Hope there are some others around to keep an eye on this.

 

She ate her whole dinner, licked her paws, and is now curled up on the bed sleeping. I think she's fine. However, this has motivated me to find an emergency animal hospital close by.
Also, please explain why you shouldn't give a shot when the cat is hypo.

 

Have you retested again to make sure that 37 was a bad reading?

 

ok, ok, i'll do it now. hate to wake her.

371. She took it like a champ!

 

@Tuxedo Mom I'll be here another hour or so. Thanks for being here, and sleep well!

@srk3cats I'm so glad you're going to test her again. I know it's hard to wake them, but jt's really best to be sure.

 

@Djamila Thanks for being here. I will wait until I see another reading before I feel comfortable going to bed.

 

Hopefully this will not be needed but please do read through this stickie and make a copy just in case you do need it!!

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

 

Having some knowledge of diabetes helps make sense of all this. This site does a good job explaining things. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hypoglycemia/basics/causes/con-20021103

 

371! Great job, Roberta! We can all breathe now.

 

Basically what you've done if you shoot on too low a number....the sugar is already low, you add insulin which helps pull the little bit if sugar that it is there into the cells. Because the body requires glucose constantly to function, and it was low to start with and the insulin makes it even lower, the body can no longer function. Brain activity and other necessary body functions can't continue without sugar. Passing out, seizures, and death can occur very quickly. Fyi...this is the same for any diabetic animal. Remember in Fried Green Tomatoes when Shelby goes into a hypoglycemic seizure in the hair salon? That's what can happen to kitty, only if you're not there for it (and even if you are there) it can be deadly.

 

I hate to say it but THANK GOODNESS for a high number. Luckily it seems that 37 was a bad read, but please take this as an example of what you need to do if you ever get a very low preshot number. First off, do not shoot...retest without giving food and if the number is still low please post for help BEFORE shooting,

Hope the rest of your evening is uneventful!!





ETA Sorry for going ballistic..but only yesterday another person did go through a hypo with seizures and it was really touch and go for a while;

 

You can put the 371 in the +1 box on your spreadsheet.

And please forgive me for being bossy, but NEVER give a shot of insulin if Chloe's pre-shot number is below 200.

Please go back and re-read the posts in this thread that are #34, 62, 97, and 99. I know there is so much to learn right now, but all of those posts said that you don't give a shot if the number is below 200. Because there is so much information coming at you right now, I would suggest re-reading this thread often, along with the links that Mary Ann and Sarah just gave you.

As you can see from our level of panic and concern tonight, this is a very very important guideline. If you give Chloe insulin on a low number, it can kill her. Seriously. When I thought you gave her insulin on a 37, I thought there was very little chance she would survive that. That's how serious this is. I'm so so so glad that it was a false reading.

While we've never met you or Chloe, we all care very much for the well-being of everyone here and really want to help keep Chloe safe and healthy.

 

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/protocol-for-prozinc-pzi.165103/
When you have some time today it would be a good idea to read this document, make notes to yourself, post here with any questions you have, etc. As you can see from last night's postings people here really do get into a panic when they think a kitty is in danger. All we want to do is help but we rely on the kitty parent to become as well informed about the insulin being used as possible. Otherwise our advice might not make sense and/or actions might be taken that are life-threatening to the kitty.

 

I'm sorry we got into a panic last night. It happened again this morning: the first read was 67, but I immediately did it again and got 552, which is the highest reading ever. She had a great appetite and I gave her .8, or actually, a 'skinny' 1. I have a feeling the doasage is too low, but will stick with skinny 1 unit for another two days and see what the numbers are, unless you think otherwise.
It just occurred to me that maybe the high number is due to the honey I rubbed on her gums yesterday when I got the very low reading. I'm also wondering if the ReLion prime is broken or maybe the insulin is too old. The vet told me that it expires after 3 months. Is that true?

 

Good job getting a second test when the first number seemed wonky this morning. Whenever you get a number that seems strange (either too high or too low), that's a good practice to check it again. I think it's a very good idea to stick with a dose for a few days.

How old is your insulin? Where have you been storing it?

 

We really do want to keep your Chloe as safe as possible. Does the reason you wouldn't give any insulin on a hypo make sense?

 

Honey only raises numbers for a short duration that's why during low numbers you might have to reapply every 20 minutes until her numbers start rising on their own. I think it's like an instant sugar kickstarter. Shouldn't have any impact on her numbers today.

 

Merp...you're so right. I'm still getting coffee into me, so I wasn't really thinking! Editing my post so it wont be confusing.

 

It's about 3 months old, but still half full (I'm an optimist). I've kept it in the refrigerator except for a couple of times early on that I forgot to put it back for several hours. I do have a new bottle on hand. Does changing bottles have any effect?

 

I'm slow about medical stuff, but it's starting to make some sense to me. I once knew a diabetic man who had to eat snacks during the day. Is that the same for leaving some kibble out for Chloe?

Basically, if the numbers are consistently high, then increase the dose a smidgeon, but keep it steady. If the number is lower than 150, don't give her any more insulin. Better too high than too low. I'm a visual learner, so I'll try to find a video of what goes on in the body.

 

More or less but usually prefer LC wet food and making sure she has not eaten for 2 hours prior to your next pre-test so the number is not food influenced. Only thing I've seen when starting a new vial is to do a couple reduced doses, maybe 3 cycles, to see how the strength is. Prozinc requires gentle rolling and I would think this should keep a more equal strength throughout the vial but I could be wrong.

 

I found a good video here: and I only just started looking.

 

A good way to think of it too is that you want a kitty to have SOME BG number. When the number is 2 digits, that's good...that's a normal number off insulin. You don't want to give insulin at that point because it helps reduce the BG...and you don't want to reduce when they're normal.

 

Yes, it's the same idea. As Yong said, it's generally best to leave out low-carb wet food since most kibble foods are high in carbs.

Dose increases are generally .25u, and yes, keep them steady - not faster than one increase every six cycles. So right now you've been at this dose for about five cycles. We recommend only making dose increases when you are going to be home to monitor the cycle in order to make sure Chloe doesn't go hypo from the increase.
Since you work during the day, that means you would usually only increase a dose on a weekend when you'll be home. That also means that you'll be holding increases for more than six cycles, and that's okay.

Even though I've been doing this for a couple of months now, I still post and ask others to advise me before I make dose changes. This is complicated and having more minds on it is helpful. I usually have an idea what I think is the right dose change, but I ask everyone to look at my data and see what they have to say before I make a change. I do this because I might be missing something in looking at the data.

I would recommend that you do that too. Post the pre-shot number and ask the group before you give the shot, especially right now while you're still learning. My habit is to test Sam, then give him his food, then I sit down at my computer and enter the number on the spreadsheet. If it's a number that is consistent with his usual numbers, I give him his usual dose. If it's a number that is strange (high or low), I post and ask for help before I give him his shot.

Since you aren't home to monitor Chloe during the day, and don't have a lot of data, do not give her insulin if the number is below 200.

 

I have a bag of Royal Canin hypoglycemic that I'd like to use up.

 

Ok, just make sure to monitor her when you use all the dry food up.

 

I definitely understand that. Cat food is expensive. When she stops eating it, you'll likely notice her numbers go down, and may need to make some dosing changes at that point, so when you're running out, make sure to let us know since that will be a factor to consider.

 

Did you manage to catch a mid cycle number today?

 

No. She nibbled on her dry food a bit, then we took a nap. Next test will be 7 pm.

 

338 at 7pm, I will give her a .8 u shot in a few minutes.

 

Sounds like a good plan.

 

You've done a great job of getting in your pre-shot tests, and keeping the dose consistent! Nice work!

It looks like you're getting some more consistent numbers the past couple of cycles. I'm thinking it might be time to increase the dose to 1u for tomorrow evening's cycle.

Would you be able to get an extra test tomorrow evening to make sure 1u is safe for her?

 

That increase sounds like a great plan!

 

Yes, I can do that. Yesterday, my test and shot were a bit late. shot @ 7:45 pm. I have to take her reading and give her her shot at 7:15 today, so I'll keep it at .8 for now.

 

I gave her shot at 7:30, but I think it was a 'fur shot' because the area was a bit wet afterwards. I will be home by 4:30 today and do a test then.

 

Ugh, the dreaded fur shot!

 

Wow! Look at that nice yellow pre-shot again! I think keeping that dose stable the past few days has really helped Chloe! You're doing a great job!

 

Oh no! I just saw the fur shot post. Ugh. It happens to all of us. I just did one the other day.

DO NOT reshoot. Chloe will be okay, and you'll get back on track this evening.

 

Roberta, make sure to enter a note in the comments section about the AM Fur Shot (FS) or change the dose cell from 0.8 to FS.

 

I hope you had a good day at school today!

Here's what I'm thinking about your three options for tonight:

1. If you get a pre-shot that is below 200, do NOT give any insulin.

2. If you get the pre-shot test and it's over 200, AND you can get a second test at +3 or later, then I think you could give 1u.

3. If you get the pre-shot and it's over 200, BUT you can't/don't want to get a second test at +3 or later, then stay at .8u for now.

Here's the reasoning:

First, if the pre-shot test is below 200, then you don't give insulin. You learned that the other evening.

Second, if you increase the dose, you need to be able to monitor (get extra tests) to make sure that the blood glucose doesn't go too low. Whenever you raise the dose, you can't predict the results, because even a drop of insulin can make a difference. Insulin is a very powerful hormone.

Third, if you can't or don't want to do extra tests, then you need to keep the dose the same for now, in order to keep Chloe safe.


Since there are three different options, it might be confusing. I'll be around this evening at your shot time, so if you want to post your pre-shot results, and what you're thinking for the dose, I'm happy to clarify any of this.

 

I'm just keeping it a skinny 1 unit for another day or 2.

 

That was a nice pre-shot tonight. Have a good evening!

 

Very nice preshot! Have you been able to grab any before bed tests this week?

 

I got home late tonight and didn't do a test until 8:30. It was 421. Why is it so high when I increased her dose this morning?

 

First, it looks like you skipped the dose since you were off schedule tonight. That's the right thing to do.

As far as the 421, there are a few reasons why she might be high:

1. Did she eat anything different last night or day? More food? different food? What cats eat impacts their blood glucose.

2. The dose might be too low.

3. The dose might be too high.

The only way to tell the difference between #2 and #3 is by getting mid-cycle tests. Then we can help you figure out how to get Chloe to the right dose. I know it's hard when you work all day, but anytime you can get an extra test or two in, it will really help you and us figure out what's going on.

Do you have spring break coming up soon?

 

Yep, it's hard to tell. Getting in some before bed tests on days you can't get mid cycles will help, and then grabbing mid cycles on the weekends or other off days will really tell us what's going on.

 

We really need to see some other tests, either near the middle on weekends or just before bed on week days. Testing before a shot is essential and it's great that you're doing that to keep Chloe safe. However, finding the good dose requires data on how low she's going. Kitties can dip very low in the middle of a cycle and then jump back up at the end. If you just have pre shot data you might think a dose is too low when in fact the middle numbers might show it's too high.

 

Chloe's test at 7 pm tonight was 237. I gave her 1 unit. I'm wondering where to give her the shot. I was told to do it on the loose skin on her scruff.

 

The SS said it was 276 at 7pm. Either way, it was yellow. Does the glucometer have a memory?

 

Some do...some don't. Which glucometer are you using?

GREAT job grabbing that extra test last night!

 

Yes, well done getting the extra test! The mid-cycle tests are the only way to know if the insulin dose is too high or too low, so that is really helpful information!

 

Mine is a Relion Prime and I managed to bring up the last 2 days.