Chloe2

You can even take her just to drop her off to get treatment and go home to sleep. Call the vet back in the morning.

 

Chloe trusts you to do right by her. Please don't break her trust and let her down.

 

@srk3cats I hope you are still online and have read our suggestions. There is nothing more I can say to convince you that poor sweet Chloe needs veterinary intervention. I pray that you do the right thing by her.

 

Chloe only has you to keep her safe. You are her only family and friend. I hope you do right by her and give her the care she'd give you if she could. I'm praying that you are continuing the honey or taking her to the vet.

 

I didn't see any of this until this morning. I pray everything is OK.

 

Oh my gosh! Is Chloe still with us??

 

Good morning. I didn't sleep well, but she had some dry food nearby (on the bed). She seems fine this morning- tested at 145. Chloe didn't want to go to the ER last night. What happens when a cat dies from hypo? Other than being lethargic, she didn't seem to be in pain. I knew she was okay when I pricked her ear this morning and she yelped. Last night, I pricked her so many times and she didn't react. She jumped off the bed this morning, yowling for some food. I don't know why this happened. I'm thinking maybe because I forgot to leave out dry food for her to snack on. No shots until she's over 200.

 

I've been to just about every vet in town over the years and I don't trust any of them. I called the emergency ER, which is about 6 miles away, and told them I was coming, but Chloe saw the carrier and looked terrified. Chico ran in, thinking it was all a game. The ER was where Pogo was diagnosed with cancer and had to be put down the next day. I chose a home vet and I did not like the way he did it. If it's not painful, I would prefer my cats die at home naturally.
Maybe I'm a crazy old cat lady, but I believe my cats 'speak' to me.

 

Is there anything we can do to help you and Chloe going forward? You've been through a harrowing hypo episode and I'm sure you'd like to avoid a repeat of that ordeal.

 

Hypoglycemia would certainly be painful, just fyi.

We'd definitely like to help you avoid ever having to go through this again. We want Chloe to live a long, happy, healthy life.

 

No cat should ever have to die of hypoglycemia when it is caught in time to properly treat it.

 

I'm glad she's ok.

 

Lethargy, weakness, staggering, loss of coordination, blindness, crying, shivering, twitching, seizures, coma, death. Hypoglycemia causes damage to the CNS and brain death. It is painful for the afflicted cat, and painful for the caregiver to have to watch.

 

I'm going to call in sick at least for the am. I'm going to test her every hour until I feel confident she can be left alone.

 

She should be seen by a vet to discover why she went so dangerously low without additional insulin, or the risk of this happening again is very great.

 

I found a clinic nearby that I've never used before and have an appointment for 3:30 today. It's a fairly new clinic with several doctors and has one specifically for pet diabetes. I won't be seeing him today, though. This clinic is open Saturdays and Sundays. I'm looking forward to seeing what it is like.

 

I'm happy Chloe made it through the night!
If and when she gets over 200 do not give her 1.25 units. I would start over with 0.8 or 1.
Without the dry food it's possible she doesn't need insulin.

 

Good! In future, though, you really can't rely on your pet to "tell" you whether or not they want to see the vet in an emergency; that's kind of like asking an infant if they want to go see the doctor, they don't even understand the concept. It is the responsibility of the parent to see that medical intervention is obtained!

 

Please put those test results in your spreadsheet. They might give clues as to what happened last night.

 

I'm glad to hear Chloe is still with us. However, I am going to stress that you dodged a bullet with her last night. Those kind of prolonged hypo numbers - even if a cat survives them - can cause brain damage, ongoing seizures or permanent blindness. When you think about that, the cat "not wanting" to go to the vet is pretty much irrelevant - we have to think about what they need, not what they (or we) want or don't want at that point.

 

Just a thought: do you gently roll the ProZinc vial a few times before using it? I started wondering if the drastic effects of yesterday's dose could have been caused by uneven distribution of insulin in the bottle when you drew up the AM dose. ProZinc is a suspension and the insulin will settle out if the vial isn't properly/gently mixed before using it.

 

I usually do, but maybe not enough. I'm pretty stressed in the mornings because my principal is anal about my getting to work on time. Anyway, she's now at 359- quite a bounce. She's been eating a lot, including dry food.

 

Gentle rolling is all it needs. Shaking too vigorously can damage the insulin so it loses its effectiveness.

That pink bounce number is not surprising at all. Please let us know later how the vet visit at the new clinic goes. I hope you find a vet that can be more helpful to you in treating Chloe. We were all worried about her last night. All the kitties we meet here become like our own.

 

Do you just roll it between your hands? My former vet said to swing it back and forth gently with one arm. Chloe and I appreciate all your concern and advice. I asked the receptionist if the doctors there accept home monitoring and she said she knows of several clients who are doing that. It would all be so much easier if I had a partner. Do all of you have someone at home to help? For example, one person could drive and the other could hold the cat without stressing them with a carrier.

 

Making slow figure 8s in the air while holding the vial is another good way to mix ProZinc. I did a little of both - rolling and figure 8s - when Teasel was on ProZinc.

I'm really glad the new vet practice is open to home monitoring. Some vets get sticky about wanting pet meter numbers (AlphaTrak2) so there are people here who have a pet meter to do curves for the vet and they use a human meter day to day. The pet meter strips are extremely expensive. What meter are you using?

Yes, it can be a lot easier if you have someone at home to help. Many of us don't, though, and some have a "significant other" who'll have nothing to do with kitty care. I'm alone and have physical limitations (extremely weak hands, very poor balance, etc.) that are challenging so I understand the frustration of doing things alone. My kitties dislike the carrier too but if they need to go to the vet, I just put my mind on the "calm and business-like" setting and do what I have to do. Their welfare is very important to me so I steel myself to withstand the protests.

 

You and me, too, Kris! I am alone and have disabilities that make it very difficult for me to get my kitties to the vet. Sometimes one of my sons will be able to come help, but other times I just have to steel my mind to it and go it alone.

 

I go it alone much of the time too but if it's going to be particularly challenging I have good friends who will help. Good friends are worth their weight in gold! No - diamonds!!

 

Very true! I have a dear friend who is always willing to help me, too, but she lives about an hour and fifteen minutes away. I have another good friend nearby, but she's been in a wheelchair for the past 35 years so can't really help me with the physical stuff. I'm lucky that my sons can help sometimes, they are wonderful to me.

 

My other half would not do shots or testing...that was ALL on me. He will go with me to the vet (because I insist) but it's up to me to get them in the carrier...leaving them out of it would be so bad for us. They hate car rides.

 

The one and only time I took Chuck in the car without a carrier he was terrified and peed and pooped on my seat. It was awful. He sees his carrier as a safe spot when out of the house. Sometimes I will leave the carrier open on the floor so they can inspect it and get comfortable with it on their own time. Not just me shoving them in it. I actually have a really funny picture of my civvie Kitty just chilling in it.

 

I leave one of my carriers out and open all the time too - desensitization exercise.

 

Ditto! They use it as a bed a lot.

 

Same here. My male Bengal freaks out every time he see it if I don't leave it out where he can see it all the time.

 

I really like my new vet clinic. They spent 2 hours with me! and they use Feliway in their exam room for cats. The only thing I didn't like was that she said I should feed only the Royal Canin Hypoglycemic wet food, but Chloe won't eat it. She'll eat their dry food, though. Chloe has NO ketones, but tested at 400. The vet said I should start her back tonight on 1 unit. They even gave me a sample syringe with the dose marked with a red circle sticker. This clinic is even closer than the last one I used, just in the opposite direction. They said to call them for directions for when I do my next glucose curve.

 

This sounds very promising!

 

The dry food only comes in a 4.4 lb bag. It's what my vet recommended also, but I told her I'm feeding Frisked pate and switching to YA zero carb. They can't MAKE you use the prescription food, and the YA is better than the Royal Canin.

 

What is YA?

 

The Feliway was brilliant! Chloe walked into her carrier and said not a peep all the way home. She's usually mellow, but resisted getting into her carrier when we were leaving the house. She also cried in the car. She was so laid back when they brought her back from the lab that I asked what kind of tranquilizer they gave her.

 

YA stands for "Young Again Mature Zero", a very low carb dry food available online only. The company will send a free sample if you request one. You could Google Young Again pet food to get the URL. Quite a few people here give their kibble addicts some of this along with low carb wet food.

 

www.youngagainpetfood.com is their website. Don't let the price scare you. They only need about 1/4 cup a day.
I think 1 unit is a good start but do be careful if she gets close to 200 like the night before.
If she's eating the "prescription" dry food that's higher in carbs. If you switch to Young again zero mature you have to be very careful with her dose. She can drop fast without the carbs.
By the way: in California (if I remember right) has a law suit against the "prescription" pet foods. There is nothing in the food that qualifies it as a prescription.
In my opinion it's a money making scheme. Talk you into the expensive "prescription" food that has to many carbs which then increases BG levels and requires more insulin. You spend more on food and insulin and they profit wildy.
I actually heard a sales rep promising my vet $10 lunch credit for each bag of science diet they sell to a client. At the end of each month they cater a lunch for them for the amount they earned through sales! I told the vet it was very inappropriate and even more so for them to discuss in front of clients. I worked at a human doctor's office before and know how their sales rep luncheons work. They were never discussed in front of patients.

 

I think there are more than just the one lawsuit against the "prescription" food companies. It is a total scam, there is nothing at all prescription about them, and most of them are very unhealthy for your cats! Especially the dry ones!

 

I see you got what looks like a +3. Awesome! Probably still bouncing and food spike.

 

My vet always has feliway in the exam rooms too... I use them at home as well. YA food is great and I credit it with helping my cat into remission. They will send you a free sample if you ask.

 

My cats all go insane for it! I use it for treats sometimes, or I'll crush some into a powder in the food processor and sprinkle it over their food for a tempting topper!

 

What a great idea to have Feliway in the room! Sure wish my vet did that...I do have some spray and wipes I use in their carriers though when I take them anywhere. Something to try.

So glad the new vet seems great so far! I love that they are all for you testing at home.

 

Some good news . Keep in mind that 400 reading at the vet is stress influenced; car rides, vet clinic, other pet smells, etc. Just keep monitoring her

 

How is Chloe today?

 

I just got home and she tested ar 43. She's eating right now and I will test again in 20 minutes.

 

OMG! No insulin tonight for sure!

 

DO NOT SHOOT no matter what number you get later.

 

For whatever reason, Chloe needs a lot less insulin now. Please do not give her any tonight and post here tomorrow morning for advice. Does she have anything to eat while you're away all day? It's possible that going too long without food is adding to the low BG.

I know your new vet told you to give 1 u and call them for instructions when you do a curve. However, you have to go against that dosing advice tonight.

 

The vet told me NOT to leave food out for her between meals.

 

You haven't given a shot tonight right? Did she eat a good breakfast?

 

Does the vet know how low she's going? If you're not going to leave food out for her you need to give her LESS insulin WHEN SHE'S OVER 200.

 

My vet told me that too when my guy was diagnosed but it doesn't work for him so he gets a mid day meal.

 

I would start over at 0.5 or 0.6 units if she's over 200 after tonight's skipped dose. 1 unit is WAY too much if she's getting under 50.

 

I assume you mean tomorrow morning, Steph.

 

I agree with everyone else -- NO SHOT tonight, no matter what number she gives you later. She shouldn't be going this low so late in her cycle. I'm very concerned about her numbers right now.

 

Yes edited to clarify.

 

My vet also told me no food between meals but Chuck doesn't do well without a snack.
You don't have to leave a whole meal out. Just enough for her to snack on in case she gets too low. Most cats will seek out food when they get too low.

 

One possibility is greatly extended duration because the dose is far too high. Chloe's pancreas might also be working to some extent and her insulin needs are a lot lower because of that.

 

I was told by my vet free feeding is fine...what works for your cat is best.

 

@srk3cats , what time was her most recent shot?

 

Would you mind letting us know what her BG is now, Roberta? We're trying hard to figure this out.

 

Any new number to report?

 

Have you tested yet? Please do and report back!

 

Yes, she ate a good breakfast and she consumed almost all her dinner. This morning, she was even yowling for her breakfast.

 

What's her current BG number? What time was her most recent dose of insulin?

 

284. Why is this such a rollercoaster?

 

Because Chloe is getting too much insulin right now, so her body is overreacting in order to try to keep herself alive.

 

You have to lower the dose. And you have to leave food out for her when you're not home. She's had two very serious hypos in the last few days, and maybe more. Her body won't be able to protect itself indefinitely.

 

Do NOT give her insulin tonight. She needs some time to recover. Just give her some food and rest and love tonight.

 

Chloe used to bring me presents during the night when I was sleeping. One time, I woke up next to a pooper scooper. She hasn't done that for a long time, but this morning I woke up next to a plastic toy ball that you put snacks in. The cat bats it around until a treat drops out of the hole. So I think she wants me to leave a little bit of dry food out for her in the toy during the day.

 

It is a good idea to do another test immediately if you get a low number or a number you aren't expecting or seems off. Sometimes you can have a bad reading from too little blood or a bad strip. When in doubt-- test again.
That number is good influenced and bounce related. You should test again in 30 minutes to an hour to see if she's holding steady or dropping back down like she did the other night. The dry food is higher carb than what you have her the other night too. So it's more effective at bring up her numbers.
I'm off to bed. Good luck tonight. Good catch with the test!

 

I am NOT going to change her dose every day. The vet told me not to, and I think she's right. The less variables, the better to see what's actually going on. I had changed her food the other day because I ran out of FF. I'm going to keep her on FF from now on.

 

LMAO! That's so funny! Chuck once dropped a dead mouse on my face. I was less than thankful for his gift! Putting treats or dry food in her toy could be a good idea for the day. Maybe hiding a few snacks around the house too. Gives her something to do and she won't gobble it all down at once. But as long as she has some available it can help prevent these low numbers along with reducing the dose.

 

I think we can agree that the 1 unit is too much. So if you don't want to every day I suggest at least reducing it first then stick with it. She won't survive long with this many hypo incidents so close together every week.
Can you share your spreadsheet with your vet? I think she would agree Chloe needs a reduction in her dose.

 

You could also consider switching to Lantus. That insulin is the best one for the same dose AM and PM until they get under 50 then they reduce by a small fraction. You should call your vet tomorrow and discuss this with her. The low numbers and dose size.

 

I'll call my vet tomorrow.

 

I can agree that the fewer variables that change, the better, but I think your vet would also agree that having Chloe go hypo constantly is extremely dangerous and could potentially cause long term problems. I think any vet would agree that if your cat is going hypo at the END of the cycle especially rather often, the dose needs to go down.

 

I'm in agreement with what's been said. My mantra is always "Keep the variables to a minimum." However, the dose that Chloe's on is far too high, hence the roller coaster and hypo incidents. At least put a call in to your vet this morning to tell her about those incidents of dangerously low end-of-cycle numbers so close together and tell her that you'd be more comfortable lowering the dose. Leaving some dry food in her plastic ball or elsewhere around the house for her to find is a good idea.

 

Seeing her numbers this morning, I'm wondering if the 43 was a fluke. I did have some trouble getting enough blood on the strip. I'll check again in an hour.

 

Hard to say. If it was just one evening test that was a lime green, I'd say fluke but it happened twice. It's good to test a second time immediately whenever you get a number that seems out of the ordinary, especially very low.

 

I've started doing a glucose curve today. The vet said to test every hour. Also I emailed her Chloe's SS, but will it automatically update? Also, I'm going to switch to my new Everpaw glucometer which is specifically for pets.

 

If you emailed her the link, then she should be able to see the updates. If you emailed her the spreadsheet as an attachment, then she won't see the updates.

 

On the upper right corner of the SS, I clicked 'share' and typed in the clinic's email address, then send. Is that a link?

 

Yes, that should work. You might want to call her in a couple of hours to confirm she can see it.

 

They called and said they got it, but couldn't open it because they don't use google. Then I did a copy and paste and sent it as an attachment, and then I also sent them the URL link.

 

they should be able to see it live update from the URL link.

 

1 unit yesterday sent her to hypo numbers... You really need to back that down to 0.75. You keep sending her from hypo to a high bounce. It's not healthy.

 

I hope this gives good information about what's going on at this dose.

 

Any new data?

 

No glucose curve today. I don't understand why you think 1 unit is such a high dose. When she was first diagnosed I was giving her 2.5 units for the first month. Sorry, but I'm going to listen to my vet from now on.

 

I thought your vet asked for a curve today?
Best of luck to Chloe and her treatment. I've said since Frank's diagnosis that I will always be his biggest advocate in speaking for him and making care decisions for him. To me, that means getting as much information as possible about his disease and treatment. If you feel like listening to the vet is your best option, then I truly hope it works out for you.

 

The only problem I'm having with her is diet. She says I have to use Royal Canin. I just ordered Fancy Feast from Chewy's. It was my idea to do a curve today. When they called, they said I should wait a week or so to let her stabilize and then they would walk me through it. I may try pricking her paw. Her ear is getting messed up.

 

Did they have any insight to offer on the very low numbers she had before the evening shot? It's easy to dismiss those as flukes but I'd want to know by making sure a preshot test is repeated if you doubt the number you get.

 

If I listened to my vet and dosed without a test my cat would be dead.
I caught him going hypo on a random test because he didn't seem quite right and I didn't think his dose was right. It seemed high.
I gave 7 units, then 3 units 12hrs later because he didn't eat, then 7 units again and he was quickly heading for death.
The vet isn't always right. At home they are less stressed and their numbers are lower.
1 unit has proven itself to be too much by her latest hypoglycemic numbers. Especially the 30s for so many hours even with honey intervention. The data speaks for itself. The vet doesn't know exactly how she will react to a dose.
She should be looking at the numbers you're getting as you get them because after a week of going this low Chloe could be dead. Sorry to be so blunt. I have very strong feelings about this because it's like treating a child. They can't speak for themselves and are fragile.
Feline diabetes isn't like an infection you treat with one dose for so many days. It's all influenced by the cat itself. Her pancreas can heal at lower numbers and start producing insulin again. This means she needs less from you to get her into normal numbers.
It doesn't hang out in the body until it's needed... It will use every bit of glucose in the blood until she reaches certain death numbers. Her body needs some glucose to function.

 

I think you should remember that the vet does get money from your purchase of the "prescription food" that you buy from them. And from the insulin and any other treatments that you purchase from them. Have you asked your vet how many other diabetic cats they are currently treating or have treated in the past, to get an idea of their level of expertise?
I really do wish you the best in your cat's treatment, and hope that strictly listening to your vet does not cause Chloe to pass away. As said before, hypoglycemia is a very painful and hard death, and a preventable death. If your vet isn't there for you 24 hours, there is a chance that by the time you get his or her advice, it will be too late for Chloe, in a hypo situation.
If I were still listening to my vet, Frank's insulin would have stopped at 2U and he'd be in the 400s all day every day. I know I can do better than that, and he's proven that he can do better than the 400s.
As for her ear being messed up, have you tried testing you own BG? The pricks are not as bad as they look.

 

The reason we feel 1 unit is too much is because Chloe has proven that it is. If you've been giving her shots of 1 unit (as you have) and then NOT giving a shot in the evening (which is what your SS says you're doing), 1 unit is bringing her into hypoglycemic numbers 12 hours after the shot. That means she is going LOWER than normal 12 hours post shot when the insulin should all be out of her system. Make sense?

I'm sorry that you feel that we are giving you bad advice. We are merely going off the numbers and information you've provided. Quite frankly, if you gave Chloe a shot last night, she would have died. I hope that your vet is able to provide clearer information and will help to keep Chloe safe.

Good luck with your treatment and I surely hope that Chloe is able to get into safe, normal numbers and remain there.