Civie with mystery illness. We finally have an answer

Okay the ve is baffled and so am I so I'm hoping some of you cat savy folks have a clue on what is going on with one of my civies.

On April 15th Amon Ra weighed 10.2 lbs. by May 13th he was down to 6.11 lbs and very boney. Took him to the vets because not only was he dropping weight and having liquid poop. He is eating like he is starving, he is up to 2 (5.5 oz) cans a day and still screaming for more. But isn't putting any weight back on.

Symptoms since the first vet check:

Liquid poo is now soft and absolutely grey, and a very pale grey at that. At least no longer liquid, but softer than it should be, and will clear a room with the smell.
Still ravenous for food but no longer drinking buckets like earlier.
Is coat is dull and course and is coming out in handfuls. He is inside only and weather has been very cool and wet so not normal spring shedding.

Also had them do a specific gravity test and a fecal matter test. What we have ruled out so far is: Not diabetic (both versions), not hyper-t, not kidneys, and no infections, and no parasites (but on poop patrol again for them to recheck for parasites).

Now grey poop says to me that he isn't processing something correctly, but what is the question? Does anyone have any ideas of what to check next or what could be going on with him? Amon Ra is my 6 year old lynx-point siamese, who up until this has been healthy as a horse. He is the first cat that DH and I got once we got married so DH is really worried about him, he's daddy's boy.

Mel, Maxwell and The Fur Gang

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

could have colitis.certain types of infections including intestinal parasites, giardia, and coccidia.

gray stools usually indicate liver problems at least in humans

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

aww geeze no clue, but do hope you get it figured out fast. That's a lot of weight loss. Poor guy must be feeling really bad.

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

Yeah he isn't feeling great, even turned his nose up at catnip and that NEVER happens with Amon Ra. He has been doing a lot of meatloafing and when not meatloafing he is sleeping weird, with his head down and his front legs stretched out, but his hind end is all bunched up underneath him. Just not a normal position for him to sleep in.

I had to separate him for the rest of the gang at feeding time because he was becoming violent over the food. Took him yesterday for them to recheck his weight and he had only gained back 2 oz in 3 weeks of eating like a truck driver. While I'm happy for any gain at all he needs more meat on his bones.

I've been feeding him half a can four times a day and he is still in yelling at me for more food an hour after inhaling his food. Poor guy I hope we figure out what is going on with him fairly soon. I hate to keep dragging him in for more tests, but I can't let him keep dropping weight either.

Mel, Maxwell and The Fur Gang

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

Could it be a lack of digestive enzymes? Like lipase, amylase, etc? Some of these are produced by the pancreas (pancreatitis?). Ask vet if a trial of enzymes would be helpful to see if he could absorb food better.

And maybe send out for the feline pancreatitis test?

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

You ruled out Diabetes, both kinds? Meaning Diabetes Insipidous? How did you rule out DI? What was the urine specific gravity?

Poop chart as an FYI: http://fdlibrary.yuku.com/topic/10#.TdsDmSd5mc0

Could he have been exposed to a parasite? The meatloafing sounds like painful belly, could be filled with gas causing pain, could be cramps from diahrea doing that, but pain meds may help and if I remember correctly Bupe can cause constipation, that could be a good thing in this case.

Tucker meatloafed everytime he had a pancreatitis flare. B12 injections, helped along with fluids and Bupe.

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

Yep that was the specific gravity test as well as the sodium level in his bloodwork was normal. No exposure to parasites that we know of but since we can't figure out what it is, we are going with ruling out what it isn't at this point.

The way he started out I honestly thought I was going to test him and find I had another sugarcat, but at home he tested 72 at the vet's 103 so not diabetic, then started researching thought okay Diabetes Insipudius..not that. Gravity and sodium normal.

Love my vet and they are the best out of the 3 I have to choose from here, but he acts like he is in pain and so far I have gotten nothing for pain relief for him. He is just a very unhappy kitty at the moment.

My guess and one of the other reasons I'm on poopy patrol is that he has an enzyme deficiency so going to have that tested next.

Poor guy hates car rides bad enough but hates the vets worse. His first experience with a vet wasn't a good one, different vet now, but Amon Ra still feels the same way about them. His first trip to a vet as a kitten to be neutered they separated him from his buddy after I left both written and oral instructions that he wasn't to be separated and if he was he needed to be able to see Bert at the least. Well not only did they separate the two they put them in two different rooms. Amon Ra freaked out, took all the skin off his face on the cage, got hung up on the mesh and competely tore out one of his claws ( yes, he has one less claw on his right front foot). Then charged me extra to treat his damaged foot! So he is less than pleased to see anyone in a white coat anymore. So all this testing has been really hard on him.

Mel, Maxwell, and the Fur Gang.

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

awww .. I don't have any advice but just wanted to say I understand why Amon Ra is so terrified of vets after that first ordeal .. and I hope that he starts feeling better really soon!

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

Oh Mel....gosh I am soooo sorry. I know it must be so difficult to watch your baby waste away and not know.
I am going to tell you something.
I as you know had lymphoma some 3 years ago. It presented (oddly) in my stomach. It caused me to lose weight, poor looking (not gray) stool, and I had to eat constantly or my tummy ached terribly. I also thru up if I ate anything acidic.
It is unusual for lymphoma to present in the tummy...a large lymphnode gone wild in there. but any stomach problem be it an ulcer or a cancer would cause both the need to eat to keep the acids from hurting the affected area...and prevent proper digestion.
Mine was detected finally thru a endoscopy.
Sad day.
Now I dearly pray and hope your baby is not suffering anything this horrendous....but the food may be comforting his hurting belly as it did mine.
I could not bear an empty tummy...yet lost weight every day.

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

I don't know if Tucker had a pancreatitic enzyme defiency, but towards the end when he kept losing weight even on steroids, my vet researched on VIN and found out it would not be harmful to start Tucker on pancreatitic enzymes, if without doing the test. We had spent so much on his care the last few months, I simply could not afford the test, but we could give the enzyme and if it helped him absorb more nutrients, then we would know.

Unfortunately, Tucker passed only a few days later so I can't tell you if it helped.

Did you try Flagyl? AB for belly that helps with inflamation? Always did wonders for Tucker when his IBD acted up.

My sister's cat is having possible Liver problems, grey/pale poop, b/w not so good, this along with her boy who has only a few weeks left, VAS - cancer from vaccines, even though he got vaccines only his leg, the cancer started on his back and wrapped very quickly around his spine. In just a few short weeks it's now up his entire back. Sorry, digressing, just sad about him. Anyway, if we learn anything on what's going on with her girl, I'll share that with you.

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

Thanks for the input guys, hopefully we will get this figured out fairly soon. I feel awful for this little guy, he doesn't have the best genetics to start with, so right now it is anyone's guess as to what is going on with him. (Dad was more than likely also his older brother or uncle ...rescued barn cat).

At present he is on nothing meds wise. We just did 10 days of amoxicillian, which only seemed to help make the poop a little firmer, if that is what worked, since I also started giving him a little plain yogurt with his meals.

I really hate to think it might be anything as fatal as the dreaded C-word, but I guess if we can't find anything else wrong that would be the next logical thing to look into. Hopefully I can catch him in the litter box and get them a stool sample to check and go from there.

Mel, Maxwell and The Fur Gang

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

Grey stool has me thinking liver problem, bile acids deficiency, bile duct blockage, etc. Bilirubin gives poop the nice brown color. Sorry I have no direct experience with either one as of yet but just wanted to throw that into the mix.

Sure hope you can figure this our soon so the little guy can feel better. cat_pet_icon

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

Have you had an x-ray to rule out any masses?

With the ravenous eating and poo issues - after everything you have done already, the first thing that comes to mind is green tripe. It is the inner lining of the stomach (cow I think). My local nutritionist at our pet food store recommended it to me for Yoda when we first got him since he was so malnourished. It helps cats (and dogs) process their food better and should help him gain weight again.

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

Sounds like me with liver blockage. Possible food suggestion. Try some foods with very low fat content, the liver works harder when trying to deal with fats and makes the poo more runny. I get regular blockages in my liver - cipro (antibiotic); actigall - billirubin enhancer; and meraninges (baked egg whites) are my best friends. May be worth asking the vet?

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

Ultrasound yet? Xrays? It's a shame this is happening to your poor kitty. I hope you get it figured out soon. Donna

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

All of my thoughts.....too much to type....but any cat that has lost that much weight in such a short amount of time needs a thorough work-up....more than just a panel and UA.

Depending on the physical exam findings.....US, x-rays, GI panel (definitely needs to be run).....etc.

Also, it is a huge pet peeve of mine when my colleagues ignore pain. About 10 years ago, I was sitting in a seminar on pancreatitis (but it could have been a lecture on a number of other topics)....and the speaker yelled out..."DO NOT MAKE YOU PATIENTS BEG FOR PAIN MEDS!!!"

Buprinex (buprinorphine) is the pain med of choice.

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

Mel-

My cat Boomer had EPI-exocrine pancreatic insufficiency-when the food nutrients can't be absorbed. He was my flame point meezer. He was always starving and ate all the time but lost weight. There was a test that showed this - I want to say FPLI. It has to get sent to Texas A&M, it's not a blood test that can be read in a vet office. It takes a week or so to get results. They put him on pancrezyme which is an enzyme powder you add to their food. Boomer's poop wasn't gray, so this may not be the same thing but I wanted to chime in just in case.

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

The spec-fPL (formerly the fPLI) is run by Texas A&M and through IDEXX and it's for pancreatitis. The test for exocrine pancreatic insufficiency is the TLI. It can be run as part of the full GI work-up and that's done through Texas A&M or IDEXX. I don't know if it can be run separately as an add-on. Harley just had the full panel in early May and that's how we found his low cobalmin (Vitamin B12).

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

Thank you - YES - it is TLI that I was trying to remember.

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

The Idexx test can be run as an individual test or with others:
http://www.idexx.com/view/xhtml/en_us/s ... ec-fpl.jsf

 

Re: Civie with mystery illness.

I am so sorry to hear your cat is ill. Very scary!! I hope you can find out very soon what's going on.

If proceeding down the pathway of infection or parasites, understand it can take several repeat fecals to find parasites. One thing to try is to have the cat at the vet for the day. That way they get the poop very fresh -- there are some things they can see that way that are difficult with less fresh poop. Some bugs don't show as well as soon as the poop cools down, according to my vet. In fact for some tests they will use a swab to go inside and get a bit of fresh poop. That also removes any chance of contamination. There is a very detailed parasite/infection fecal GI panel offered by Antech. It's like $150. There is also a follow on culture/sensitivity that they can do -- another $160. Guess how I know. :roll:

From http://www.zoasis.com/zoasis_news_alerts.html: The FastPanel® PCR Feline GI Profile tests for Tritrichomonas foetus, Campylobacter coli, Campylobacter jejuni, Clostridium difficile toxins A/B, Clostridium perfringens enterotoxin, Cryptosporidum felis, Cryptosporidium spp., Giardia spp., Salmonella spp.and feline parvovirus, also known as feline panleukopenia virus.

again, best wishes that they figure out the problem fast,
laur

 

Finally after a ton of tests we have the answer we have been looking for....its E-coli coupled with a food allergy to fish. The other good news is he has gained back close to a pound. He has gone for 6.12 to 7.5lbs. So now to find him a food with no fish, fish oil or fish by-products. Right now we have him switched over to a limited diet of duck and green pea. And a new round of antibiotics. He's not crazy about the new food, but eating it, so will have to experiment a little until we find something he likes better, and I haven't told him yet that tuna is now off the menu. But at least we know what it is, and how to help him, and he has stopped screaming at me every 5 minutes for more food, in fact today for the first time in weeks he walked away with food still in his bowl. He's still pretty weak, but has started playing again. I never thought I would be so happy to have him grabbing my ankles in a sneak attack or climbing on the counters to check out what I'm cooking.

Mel, Maxwell and The Fur Gang

 

Oh my gosh, Mel. What a relief that it can be taken care of with a change of food and ABs. Whew! So happy that you finally got a diagnosis. (((Amon Ra))) Break the no tuna news to him gently.

 

What a relief to have a treatable answer!

 

No kidding, but breaking the news to him that Tuna is off the menu isn't going to be easy...lol. He is a tuna fanatic and will just about mug you for a bite of a tuna fish sandwich. So I guess I will be opening tuna cans on the front porch from now on, the neighbor's already think I'm nuts because I have to go outside to open crouton bags so the cats don't think its a catnip bag...lol

Mel, Maxwell, and the Fur Gang

 

Oh I'm SO happy for you Mel!

btw..Zoe is oblivious to people food. I can open ANY can and not be attacked or made to feel guilty about not sharing. She only knows the sound of her FF cans being popped open. Shes a strange little cat.
j.

 

Good news, indeed. A fixable problem for once.

 

Could I send my horde to your house to have Zoe train them? I would love to make a salad again without being attack and getting the guilty stares...lol Lady Jane and Maxwell are the only two that don't give me a guilt trip when I cook unless I have raw chicken out then I have the WHOLE tribe weaving around my feet. But I blame it all on their Dad, he gives in and feeds them off his plate. The other day he even requested two additional pieces of bacon for breakfast so the cats could share :roll:

Mel, Maxwell and The Fur Gang

 

Sure send them on down! It's like a miracle We eat in PEACE every night. Even Leo says no people treats for Zoe. He was the main culprit with Waldo and Trouble. Zoe prefers her FF, lizards and now ...sadly...birdies. :YMSIGH:

 

Glad you got answers and can do something to address this.

As for food, have you considered making your own raw food, or even buying raw. I know some of the higher end raw (like feline pride) provide true ingredients and no fish.

 

Mel -
I'm very happy to hear you got a diagnosis and that it's something treatable. Whew!

 

I'm glad you have and answer and it's something that can be corrected with some food changes.

Sandy - Dottie, Jeter & Tilly :mrgreen:

 

Mel,

So glad to hear you have a solution. Can you feed chicken or turkey?

Catch you later..

Claudia

 

Yep he can have both chicken and turkey in fact the vet recommended that we try him on both, just we need to go one food at a time to make sure we don't have any other allergies. He LOVES raw chicken and will try to steal it right off the counter when I'm cutting it up for dinner. I really need to see about getting them all switched over to a raw diet. I'm getting so I don't trust anything commerically made, not my animals' food or mine, as it seems like everytime I turn around something else is being recalled.

Mel, Maxwell and The Fur Gang