Closing in on Wilbur's Vetsulin doses

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by johnt, Mar 3, 2018.

  1. johnt

    johnt Member

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    Last thread was a few short time tests to make sure he's ok.

    I just got his additional hour and it's 88 so it's coming back up now. I think that's good for the time being?
     
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  2. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Down to 3.5 u tonight.
     
  3. johnt

    johnt Member

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    Will do. Thanks as always.

    Starting to look like 3.25 might end up being the #
     
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  4. johnt

    johnt Member

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    Dangit, I know he got into the kibble. i'm expecting a high number. Still stick to 3.5?
     
  5. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I'm basing that on the low greens today. Ignore the kibble factor even though your PMPS might be elevated.
     
  6. johnt

    johnt Member

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    Also i'm going to get some +4 and more tonight. i forgot to put in his PMPS but it was high. 354 but again, I know he snuck in.

    Previously I put the kibble up 2hrs prior just to be sure. then forgot to put it back :( but I'm going to have to start doing it every time.

    no temptations today though! milestone reached
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
  7. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    If your cat insists on kibble please switch to young again zero. Www.youngagainpetfood.com. Ask them for a free sample. Also only keep temptations in case of hypo.... It's like feeding a diabetic person marshmallows.
     
  8. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I suggest 3.5 again today. That was a nice blue last night.
     
  9. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    If that pink PS is influenced by kibble I suggest you note it on your SS. We're trying to find out if 3.5 u is a good dose and if the PSs without kibble come up pink too often it might not be.
     
  10. johnt

    johnt Member

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    i can safely say every time it's been high he either had temptations, or snuck into the Hills food (kibble).

    After watching him so closely I am confident if I can keep him off those two items he'd be right in line. Actually I think he could rest at 3.25 or even 3.

    But it's baby steps for me. We've already come a really long way in a month, so while I still have a ways to go, i'm actually pleased with the progress.

    heck just the fact I can test him. in 30 days i've gotten upwards of 70 tests. Now we've even got him leveling off, and it's going to be close to the same number we started at 6 years ago!

    The last step is these dang sneaks and the treats. but i'll get there

    I'm gving him a break today a little because I've been reall testing him the last couple days but i'll get one at around +6 today

    also the reason I didn't note it was because I didn't see it. I'm just guessing. but it makes sense.
     
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  11. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes - enormous strides in a short time!
     
  12. johnt

    johnt Member

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    sorry, meant to reply to you.

    This is something I'm considering. The cost is the only drawback.

    I wanted to switch him years ago but since he wasn't letting me test him i was afraid of him dropping. Actually I was just afraid to change his diet at all without knowing how it affected him.

    at the beginning of Feb when I was able to get him to let me test finally, all of those doors opened again. So that's in the pipeline. thank you!
     
  13. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Nice mid cycle number! As you've seen response to a pretty good dose can be somewhat variable - greens one day, blues on another day. You might have to spend a day or two longer at a dose as you tinker with it.
     
  14. johnt

    johnt Member

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    that's what I figured. It's not a problem. Unless he's down in the mid-greens when I do a +4, +5 or +6 i'll likely just test him once mid cycle so he can relax and his little poke holes can heal
     
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  15. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Any kibble associated with those pink pre shots? Not criticizing, just trying to assess dose. If no kibble it's possible the 3.5 u is a little too low.
     
  16. johnt

    johnt Member

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    I have to tell you, i'm starting to think maybe he wasn't stealing kibble. Remember I said am assuming, I dind't see him? Well this is pretty consistent. and he slept on my legs last night so i know he wasn't up and moving around the last 6 hours
     
  17. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    We’ll keep an eye on the numbers. Go with 3.5 u today.
     
  18. johnt

    johnt Member

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    yeah thats what i did.
     
  19. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts:
    • those blues today are just about ideal for Vetsulin - low enough but still a little cushion at nadir
    • the AMPS was almost yellow so not really that bad
    • it's worth keeping the 3.5 u for a day or two more OR you can try what we'd call a "fat" 3.5 u by drawing up insulin so it's almost at the 3.5 u mark but a hair short of it on the plus side.
     
  20. johnt

    johnt Member

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    What I figured I'd do is just stay the course unless I see you mention changes. I have a feeling we're just about where we need to be. those blues looked good to me today. i wanted to get a later test today just to mix it up and I was pleased at the result

    I'm still a bit confused about the AMPS/PMPS highs lately. just doesn't make sense, but i believe I can order the low carb good now.
     
  21. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    That's why I suggested staying at 3.5 u for now. It should show if pink PSs are the new normal. You can also try the fat 3.5 u as an experiment. Your choice. He's doing well though.
     
  22. johnt

    johnt Member

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    Welp I guess I was wrong, I come asking for recommendations.

    PMPS = 173

    Not sure what to do
    \
    Today i removed ALL food 3 hours before testing. he begged for 2 of those hours, i refused.
     
  23. johnt

    johnt Member

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    To add: his +1 is 201. I have not dosed him yet.

    If I don't see a reply from anyone, I'll likely just keep checking him, and once he gets to 250 I'll give him the normal 3.5

    Based on what i'm seeing if I could this monster out of the kibble he'd be great at 3.5
     
  24. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    We generally say stall half an hour without feeding and retest. If at or above 200 give insulin but a reduced dose.
     
  25. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Why not give him a lower dose, say, 2 u instead of throwing your schedule way off. Test again at +2.
     
  26. johnt

    johnt Member

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    That makes sense. OK will do. he's already just a smidge over 200 now. so i'll do 2.
     
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  27. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    The food effect is huge, isn’t it?
     
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  28. johnt

    johnt Member

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    Well, I knew it would make a difference, but I really didn't think it would be quite that drastic!
     
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  29. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    You should weigh him as you work on the feeding/dosing project.
     
  30. johnt

    johnt Member

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    I just ate a huge dinner :) so no weighing anyone tonight!

    That's a good idea though. I'll weigh myself, then pick him up and weigh us both then subtract the diff.
     
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  31. johnt

    johnt Member

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    ok +2 = 240
     
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  32. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Well, that was a really nice PS given the smaller dose last night. It'll be interesting to see if he gives you a low PMPS today. If so, a dose reduction might be in the cards.
     
  33. johnt

    johnt Member

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    Man you're fast. lol I was just coming here to post that :)

    Based on the past readings I wouldn't be surprised to see green numbers during the day
     
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  34. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    You must be really surprised at how well he's doing. :smuggrin:
     
  35. johnt

    johnt Member

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    honestly, no i'm not. you've been working with me over a month now. who wouldn't have control by now with that much help? that's why i'm so thankful
     
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  36. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I really like seeing kitties and owners make progress - very satisfying. I was thinking more of how confused and worried you were when you came back here a month ago after all those scary seizure episodes, etc.
     
  37. johnt

    johnt Member

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    no doubt. It still leaves a huge question mark as to why they were happening. but whatever the case i think he's in good shape now. problem is, that means he had 6 years uncontrolled diabetes. I thought I was taking care of him. he's 10 now. so he probably doesn't have that much time left don't you think?

    Not being pessimistic, just thinkin in reality
     
  38. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    No predicting any of that so don't dwell on it. You're getting his BG under better control and his weight WILL come down slowly if he eats low carb (preferably wet) food. A senior cat blood panel when you can afford it is a good idea, along with a good dental assessment. It's like older cars - good maintenance = good longevity.
     
  39. johnt

    johnt Member

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    i'll feel better when he starts losing weight. Some dropped off right away but i've been withdrawing the temptations slowly anyway. I ramped it up recently.

    I'm really not dwelling on it. I just have to face facts. I have 3 cats, all are 10 years old. so it's going to come. Then again i'm caring for my mother who is 75, all my aunts and uncles are over 72 so the next 20 years are going to be pretty bummy.

    I just enjoy the time I do have. not much else to do
     
  40. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Safest weight loss for kitties is a very slow loss. Think a year, not weeks or even months. You don't have to impose severe food restriction if the food is low carb.
     
  41. johnt

    johnt Member

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    right. but I think more than anything it's wilbur's volume. he begs for food every hour. if I could replace everything he's snacking on with the low carb stuff I bet his sugar and weight would fall right in line

    i don't mind him losing slow. just want to see progress
     
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  42. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I see you're experimenting with a 3 u dose.
     
  43. johnt

    johnt Member

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    that's bizarre. i gave him 3.5 i must have written it wrong.

    isn't that supposed to be what i'm at? 3.5
     
  44. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
     
  45. johnt

    johnt Member

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    it's corrected. although i think last night i did give him 3. but notice his numbers were yellow at +8 too. I must have been tired. but i know without question i gave him 3.5 this morning
     
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  46. johnt

    johnt Member

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    He's at 228 PMPS should I give him the full 3.5?
     
  47. johnt

    johnt Member

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    Great. I fell asleep and didn't wake up until what should have been +4. I checked his blood and it wsa 270. I hadn't given him his PM shot, i did the test, he was at 228.

    How should I handle this? i would like to move him back to the previous schedule but I'm not sure how to do it. This change would mean his shots would be at noon and midnight and that would create chaos.

    How should I handle his morning shot?

    Can't believe this, in 6 years of treatment I never missed a dose.
     
  48. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Easiest thing is to skip the dose and give him his next shot at the usual time. We all mess up from time to time. Think of it as a fur shot ... o_O
     
  49. johnt

    johnt Member

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    OK. so since I gave him his shot at midnight, I should just skip his 8am shot then give it to him at 8pm? even if his sugar gets really high?

    and I can't believe I missed it. i'm very diligent about that stuff
     
  50. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes. A spike to a high number this one time won't hurt him. Have you done any urine ketone testing on him? I don't recall if that's been discussed.
     
  51. johnt

    johnt Member

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    Nope. how in the world do you collect urine from a cat?

    EDIT: nevermind. i found it.

    the vet did one though and said it was OK. about 2 months ago
     
  52. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    It's easy, especially if he's not shy around his litter box use. Not sure which "how to" you found but this is one I wrote up:
    • put the end of the test strip right in his urine stream as he's peeing
    • slip a shallow, long handled spoon under his backside to catch a little pee - you don't need much
    • put a double layer of plastic wrap over his favourite part of the litter box and poke some depressions in it too catch pee.
    Most test strips have to be dipped and allowed to develop for 15 seconds before viewing the colour change in very good light.

    I use the spoon method for Teasel and it's a piece of cake. I have three cats but know his usual "pee times" so I grab a sample then every couple of weeks.
     
  53. johnt

    johnt Member

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    ahh. the ones I saw said get special gravel type litter.

    here's the thing, it also sai i could drip some water in the litter and put a strip in. if it doesn't change colors it will probably work if you can get it.

    When wilbur pees he no longer cleans up. but he's also very messy. i had to put open front covers on the boxes because even with high boxes he was peeing right on the walls. no way I can get in there.

    but when he pees he goes so much there's a huge clump in the litter with a puddle right in the middle. if the litter doesn't mess up the test i coud try that.

    but the vet said they were ok when he had the last tests done. does it need checking that often?
     
  54. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    If a cat isn't feeling well or the BG numbers are too high for a prolonged period of time checking urine ketones is advised. They can build up in hours. Vets don't generally recommend it because they aren't aware of how easy it is or they don't want to invite any litter box avoidance issue. I only mentioned it because you were concerned about higher BG today without the AM dose.

    I'm in the camp that thinks urine ketone testing is a wise precaution. It doesn't have to be weekly if the cat is doing well. Teasel had a bout of diabetic ketoacidosis two months after diagnosis and he was extremely sick. Treatment involved three days at the vet's ICU ER and was very $$$$$$.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  55. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Don’t forget to make a note on your SS about last night’s late dose. For this AM put “NS” in the dose cell"
     
  56. johnt

    johnt Member

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    yeah I will. i checked his blood at what should have been +4 and it was 290
     
  57. johnt

    johnt Member

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    I did, and added a note. I checked him at what should have been +2 and he was 275. I have to leave for a bit but will check him again when i return. poor little guy.

    This brings up another question. Sometimes he slips. Let's say I miss his AMPS by 15 minutes. What should I do? when it happens I adjust his next shot to match. The problem is this throws everything out of whack. it ends up, over time, moving his dose times up an hour. It's never early. but if it's only 15 minutes should I make the next shot at his normal time, or continue like i have been?
     
  58. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    With an in and out insulin like Vetsulin you have up to an hour’s flexibility in dose timing without have to worry about major effects on BG.
     
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  59. johnt

    johnt Member

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    ok got it. thanks
     
  60. johnt

    johnt Member

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    Sorry I slacked on putting Wilbur's numbers in today. feeling cruddy again today. but I did get his numbers during the day and tonight and have filled it all in now)
     
  61. johnt

    johnt Member

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    ok I have a problem.

    I loaded up 3.5 today and gave it to Wilbur. then I noticed he's green at 4+. then it dawnd on me, it felt like i was loading more than usual.

    it was then that I realized, at some point i started misreading the syringe. when it's anything over 5 i read up or down from the next 5 mark right? but when I started doing low doses, I'm pretty sure when I read 3.5 it's actually 2.5 because most times I've been counting the first mark, which is actually the 0 mark i don't always count that way.

    This means my doses have been inconsistent. Sometimes I count up from the first mark, some times I count down from the 5. That means there's an entire 'u' difference depending on which way i count. there are actually 5 marks below the 5. the bottom one just doesn't say '0' next to it

    this would explain those greens i think
     
  62. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Give this more thought. You're right that the first mark under the needle is the zero mark when you hold the syringe vertically, needle pointing upward. You can't know for sure what you did so just try a new way counting from zero and don't deviate from that. The numbers over the next few cycles should tell you whether this has been an issue.
     
  63. johnt

    johnt Member

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    oh i'm not going to change anything, except from now on i'm counting down from 5 so there's no question.

    such a stupid mistake
     
  64. johnt

    johnt Member

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    by the way, i won't make that mistake again. i'm counting down from the 5 mark each time now, and I can say with certainty i was doing it the other way frequently.

    Should I keep at 3.5 for now? seems like we've been here a long time
     
  65. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    You can keep it another couple of cycles to see if dark green pops up. He’s been doing well on that dose.
     
  66. johnt

    johnt Member

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    I agree. he seems happy here. he's also settling in without the temptations, although he still gets a little bit every couple days. i've got him almost completely weaned though.

    Thanks for the reply, I'll stay the course.
     
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  67. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Let’s see what 3.5 u does today. The 124 last night was good.
     
  68. johnt

    johnt Member

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    sure thing
     
  69. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Three choices for you:
    1. stay at 3.5 u for a few more cycles
    2. try what we call a fat 3.5 u by filling the syringe almost to but a tiny bit more than 3.5 u
    3. try 3.75 u.
    Any of the above would be OK to try for now.
     
  70. johnt

    johnt Member

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    I think moving up .25 might be the best bet. I'lltry that starting tonight.
     
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  71. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes a dose can get a bit "stale" after a while and a little bump up gets the BG moving down. You might end up going back to 3.5 u. It's like a little jumpstart.
     
  72. johnt

    johnt Member

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    Sounds good. i can always scootch it back down to option 2 if this doesn't seem to lock us in
     
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  73. johnt

    johnt Member

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    Help me with something now that we're past the point.

    When I was giving him 4.75 his sugar would go way down then come way back up. That means he wasn't healthy, but i don't quite understand why that happened. is it because i was giving him too much and like the vet was saying his body was fighting the low sugar off so it would climb higher by PMPS? You called it rebounding
     
  74. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, exactly. We call it “bouncing” on FDMB but rebounding is another term for it. A dose that’s too high drops the BG too low and that sets off a chain of processes whereby glucose that’s stored in the liver in another form gets dumped into the bloodstream. It’s a self protective process but it can go overboard and raise BG too high. If the dose that’s too high is continued the liver’s supply eventually runs out and BG crashes into hypoglycemic territory.
     
  75. johnt

    johnt Member

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    yeah that makes sense.

    I wish this stinking cold would go away so I could get on a regular schedule again. I felt awful again last night even though i was up late so I didn't get any mid-cycle readings. i'll get one today at +6 or somewhere in there.

    I stayed at 3.75 again
     
  76. johnt

    johnt Member

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    phew that might have been too big a bump +4.5 and he's 65

    I went ahead and gave him a few temptations because that's just too low. i dind't give him much though.

    I'll check him in 30 min

    At what point would you recommend karo on the gums?

    FYI i waited 13 minutes and it's at 69 now. he's eating like he's starving.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  77. johnt

    johnt Member

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    OK, checked him again, 30 min after the 65 and he's at 83 so he looks to be ok now. i'm relieved. whew! never sure when to panic
     
  78. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Well, back to 3.5 u I guess! :) I’m sure he was going to be fine but I know you have bad memories of seizures. The “take action” number for a human meter is 50. That doesn’t mean a hypo, only that BG is low enough that a low carb snack is in order. If it had dropped below 50, then you’d dip into the Karo or Temptations.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  79. johnt

    johnt Member

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    Actually I'm pretty comfortable that with your guidance i don't need to worry as much about seizure. You'll notice I test him a lot, and i think knowing where he is as much as possible is the best way to avoid that stuff.

    As i've talked to you, my thoughts have changed completely. First I was thinking the seizures were due to overly high BG numbers because I wasn't giving him enough. Now I've learned that it's almost the opposite. They likely happened because I was giving him so much Insulin his BG dropped so low he likely went into seizure because of it. Then it would run high by the time I got him to the vet again because he was rebounding/bouncing. I believe that's what was happening now at least. maybe i'm wrong.

    I just didn't remember the number I should start worrying. 65 is the lowest I've seen and it worried me. I had '50' in the back of my head as the number, but at +4 my concern was he was still on his way down and it could get much worse in the next hours. I fed him light, but wanted to make sure we didn't stay on that low number. What startled me was that he was attacking his food like he was just starving. Which iv'e read is a symptom of low BG.

    Anyway, i'll stick to 50 being the worry number. Do you think if he gets to that point I should be loading him into the car on the way to the vet? or just handle it here?
     
  80. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    That's my take on it.

    Yes, 50 is the number to remember. You can do what we call "steering with food" if you find he's dropped a lot by +3 or +4. That means you give a small snack of regular low carb food and retest at the 30 minute mark afterward. Repeat snack/test if needed. It's to control the descent of the BG. If you aren't able to do that for whatever reason and you find him at 50 then bring out the big guns - Karo, wet food with gravy, Temptations, etc. You don't feed much at once because you might have to keep giving small high carb snacks over a period if time and you don't want to fill him up.

    Many cats get very hungry when their BG drops a lot, even if they aren't in hypo numbers. It's a good warning sign to pay attention to.

    No, if he's at 50 you'd try a little high carb snack - gravy from a can of chunks in gravy wet food works. You can put a drop or two of Karo in the gravy to add more carbs or put a couple of Temptations in it. When I have to bump Teasel's BG up I just give him a couple of teaspoons of his low carb wet food with 6-8 Temptations on top.

    You'd only whisk him off the the ER if you find him stumbling, yowling, seizing, etc. Karo on gums first though. Another scenario would be if you've tried hard to prop up his BG with carbs but it isn't working. Most people here who test often enough see a problem coming and are able to intervene effectively with carbs before it becomes an emergency.
     
  81. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Data for today?
     
  82. johnt

    johnt Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    @Kris & Teasel
    it's in. i only took a test at +5 though. he was 76, and AMPS was 268 is it not showinjg up?
     
  83. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I see it now. Interesting green. It's a bit lower than the ideal Vetsulin nadir of high double digits or low 100s. Keep the 3.5 u for now though.
     
  84. johnt

    johnt Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    @Kris & Teasel how many pages do you see in this thread?

    to me it still shows 1. bu there are over 80 replies.

    I am pretty sure we're nearing the end of the saga but i think i should start a new thread?
     
  85. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    One page, 84 posts excluding this one. I think the length of the posts determines when a new page starts. You can start a new page now though.

    Wilbur's SS looks really good. How is he feeling, eating, acting, etc.?
     
  86. johnt

    johnt Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    he's not moving faster yet, but i know it takes a long time to lose a lot of weight.

    That being said, to me he seems more like 'himself'. he starting to do his post poop zoomies again (silly i know but it's cute), and he tries to scootch down and clean himself.

    once he loses some weight he'll be able to do that again, and I think he'll be happier once he gets there.

    He seems more happy now though.
     
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  87. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Great news! :D
     
  88. johnt

    johnt Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    dangit, i did forget to put today's in. i just did. 220 AMPS. i'm going to be out for a few hours but I'll test when i get back
     
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  89. ELLIOTT & Fran Munschauer

    ELLIOTT & Fran Munschauer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Elliott has been in remission so my comments do not refer to him....I am suspicious as to the stability of VETSULIN..Maybe I need to stop researching..Merck people will talk to you all day but answers are?? Maybe there's a big difference between the crystalline portion of Vetsulin and Novolin- Humulin 70/30. My point was with the vigorous shaking needed with Vetsulin. The large particles are what cause the longer lasting effects of both of these insulins. My Vetsulin does not last 12 hours..but boy, are there sudden plunges that come out of nowhere. I spoke to Merck techs frequently to get them to consult their experts if TOO vigorous of shaking, liking shaking a paint can at Lowe's, could damage the particles..."No".. No one does this with Humulin- Novolin 70/30? Another concern is sudden unexpected BG (that occurs with all insulins at times) but with Vetsulin, really strange BG appear and wonder if the fast acting + "potentially damaged" longer lasting crystals work together causing sudden drops. One researcher believes that the crystalline fraction can be damaged and does not shake it because he believes it can break up the the crystalline particles, making them smaller and therefore; work much faster adding to the effects of amorphous portion...Sorry to get into the weeds. Suzie has been on Vetsulin for one month and happens to be a dog...which is not relevant to the makeup of this insulin. Consider low BG that occur during the day before the 8 hour mark.Oh well... Again...Thanks to all for your 24/7 care that put my Elliott into remission..He is doing GREAT!!!!
     
  90. johnt

    johnt Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    That's certainly way beyond my knowlege. I will say though, I don't shake it, I still roll it. habit i got into during my ProZinc days.

    wonder if it really matters. All i know is Wilbur fits the profile of a cat that has an expected nadir that matches the curve Vetsulin advertises. I dont know what everyone else thinks. but for me, coming down to 3.5u versus my previous doses of 8 9 or even 10u, now expirations is something I have to watch.

    Previously a vial lasted 3 weeks, now it'll b anywhere from 8 to 10
     
  91. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Nice nadir number today! :D
     
  92. johnt

    johnt Member

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    Feb 14, 2016
    yes very. I fell asleep. but his +6 was 118. so all is well :)
     
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  93. johnt

    johnt Member

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    Feb 14, 2016
    i think it's time to make the diet change now that we're stable.

    maybe tomorrow the kibble is going to be timed for all cats, so he can't get it by sneaking
     
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  94. ELLIOTT & Fran Munschauer

    ELLIOTT & Fran Munschauer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    I lack knowledge big time..The instructions are VIGOROUS shaking but that is why I question it because of my odd BG results....and learning about the instability in 2010 when taken off market. However, I am raising extremely slowly after leaving Lantus. Do you know why your dosage reduced so much? I bought my Vetsulin here and store appropriately. You are watching your expirations..Mine has not expired but have noticed BG rise in last couple of days. How long are you able to use the vial? I punctured vial on 2/16/2018. How did you determine that the vial lasted 3 weeks or was that because you ran out and needed more? Thanks for reading..Fran
     
  95. johnt

    johnt Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    Mine lasted 3 weeks because at the time I was giving him 10u twice per day. it ran out in 3 weeks.

    I don't know how he survived for 5 years that high honeslty. he wouldn't let me test him. I just miraculously got him to allow me when I forced him becaues I was afraid he was low, and i was right. so i went to 2 u that night, and he didn't eat the next day. so i started testing him. couple days later i came back here and got help. @Kris & Teasel started helping me every day until we got him balanced.

    We started moving in .25 doses until he stabilized, which seems to be where he's at right now.
     
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  96. johnt

    johnt Member

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    Feb 14, 2016
    @Kris & Teasel One question. @ELLIOTT & Fran Munschauer brought up a good question. Since I'm now able to stretch my Vetsulin over double the time from when i was injecting 10u, do I need to be aware of expiring insulin?

    the way i see it now, one bottle lasted 3 weeks, even if we just double it that means one bottle would last 6 weeks. is that still safely effective?
     
  97. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Yes, it should be OK.
     
  98. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    He's doing fine at this dose. Ignore the pinks - they aren't much different from the high yellows. Any sense that he's lost a little weight? Easier for him to clean his back end?
     
  99. johnt

    johnt Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    it's hard to tell. the girlfriend says she can tell, but i think that's a little dramatic. I see changes in him and I think that's what others are seeing. his energy is changing so his actions change too and he runs and plays more

    The other side of that, he is with me 24/7. He sleeps on my leg at night, if I get up to go to the restroom he nudges the door open to stand there. then he jumps back in the bed making it hard for me to get in.

    When i'm working on the computer (probably 15 hours per day minimum) i have two beds on a large desk, one on each side of my monitor. he demands to lay in one of those.

    point being, I see him all day, every day. so there's a good chance if hes losing weight I don't see it. I'm going to try my cheat way today.

    get on the scale, weight myself, then pick him up and weigh again, deducting the difference.

    he still can't scratch anywhere on his head. he tried 2 days ago, and his itch was really bugging him. his eye was closed and his left ear was flat out sideways. he came over and jammed his head into my face so i'd scratch him. he tried to do it but couldn't even get his rear leg past about mid-way up his torso.

    so there's no way he can get to anything to clean yet. but like I said I'll weight him. i would bet he's lost a bit of weight though with the huge diet change
     
  100. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    That is just adorable, his devotion to you (designated itch-scratcher)!
     

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