Concerned!!

Discussion in 'Welcome to the Group - Post an Introduction Here' started by Cathy.S, Jan 20, 2015.

  1. Cathy.S

    Cathy.S Guest

    Hi, my name is Cathy and I just found your website this morning. Gus, my 12 year old male, was just diagnosed Friday and I was handed insulin, needles, and told to set up an appointment in 3 weeks. I have used my Vet for almost 18 years and often have trouble communicating, due to his overall personality. However, he was there for me in an emergency situation 18 years ago and I will not forget that and have kept him as our Vet due to that reason. Anyway, back to Gus...We have been doing the insulin shots for 3 days, with this being our 4th day. My Vet did not go thru the possibilities of what could happen if he had a bad reaction, but I had looked at another site and found out about that possibility. However, your site goes into much more detail and it has been helpful. I am still pretty much at my wits end here trying to give 2 doses a day at 12 hours apart and making sure he eats at the time I'm giving the shot, before and sometimes just after. See I have 9 cats in my family and they are "indoor/outdoor" cats. All cats come in at night, but the do go in and out during the day. A particular diet for any of the cats is impossible. They have food down all the time, which is dry food and some treats. Wet food is given in the early morning and early evening, unless one comes and gets me and seems to want wet food and I give it to them.

    I was told by the Vet to give him a treat before I gave him the injection or food of some kind. I didn't know about the syrup if he had a reaction! I was told to give the shot in one place, but have read that it should be given in a different place and not the same one every time. I know nothing about urine testing and frankly, I don't see him letting me put anything under his urine stream while going. I have no one other than myself to administer the medication and am very concerned about the future. The thought of putting him to sleep wasn't really something that I thought about immediately and is not something I am willing to do immediately either. I have another cat that has lived with the FIV virus for 10 years now, if that tells you anything about me. I just couldn't put him down, even with the possibility of passing it on to the other cats in the house.

    I know this is a little long and I still need to read more that you have here, but I am happy to have found this site and knowing that I can get some advice is a good thing. My biggest concern, other than the cost because I am unemployed, is monitoring Gus. I saw him eat at about the right time, gave the shot, he ate a little more and now is outside in the heated shed. I can't see him and don't know if he is okay. That is the problem with cats that go in and out. Morning shots are easy, evening shots not so much. All 9 eat anywhere from 4 to 6pm and it is going to be extremely difficult to get Gus to eat that the exact time he should. I have given him some little things like some gravy or a tiny bit of hamburger in the evening so I could give him a shot, but I'm sure what I am feeding him is probably not right. Again,not much direction from the vet, so winging it as best as I can right now. Thanks for reading and thanks for being here. I'm sure that in time I will get everything read and be much more educated on what and how I am supposed to do this with Gus!
     
  2. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Welcome. We can only what we can do. Shots every twelve hours is very desirable and yo have at least 1 +/- 1/2 hour window and more if you are not using Lantus or Levemir insulin.
    What insulin are you using and what is the dose?
    Most of us here test our cat's BG using a human meter.
     
  3. Cathy.S

    Cathy.S Guest

    Prozinc is what the vet game me and it is 2 and a half cc's or units, not sure of the term. Also, I was told to be as exact on time as possible.
    I withheld one dose because it was over an hour past the time, so didn't give it. Thanks for the welcome too!!!
     
  4. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Welcome Cathy and Gus! As you read on the site, you'll see we are advocates of a wet low carb diet, home testing and a mild long lasting insulin. ProZinc is a good insulin so you have one down! We would urge you not to switch the diet until you are testing at home - it can make a drastic reduction in blood glucose levels, and you want to be monitoring carefully.

    Here is the protocol we put together for ProZinc:

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/protocol-for-prozinc-pzi.109077/
     
  5. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    ProZinc does allow a wider window especially if you home test. The dose is in units, not cc's
    Are yo using U40 syringes? Those have a red needle cap and the package should say U40 and say for animal use only.
    2 1/2 units is a high starting dose. However, if yo are using human insulin syringes (U100, orange needle cap) drawing up to 2 1/2 units only results in 1 unit of ProZinc since ProZinc is a U40 insulin (40 units per ml). Human insulin are U 100 (100 units per ml)
     
  6. Cathy.S

    Cathy.S Guest

    Thanks for the info!! The vet and I have not talked about testing at home. He goes back in 3 weeks to see if the insulin needs adjusting! Buy I will have a lot more questions!
     
  7. Cathy.S

    Cathy.S Guest

    As for the diet, with 8 other cats, food is a problem!! I have food down all the time for all of them.
     
  8. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Lots of people with multiple cats feed Friskies pates. They are the least expensive wet low carb foods. You can leave them down for grazing cats; some people add water to make a "gravy". But again, especially with your higher than usual beginning dose, we suggest home testing first.

    We treat our 4 legged children like our 2 legged ones. We wouldn't give insulin to our children without checking the pre shot levels to be sure the dose is safe. It seems like a overwhelming idea in the beginning, as does this whole diabetes thing, but it surprisingly reassuring to know how the insulin is working and how low it is taking Gus. We have taught hundreds of people how and would be glad to teach you. We find that most cats are stressed when at the vets and then, doses determined by those stressed influenced numbers can be too high once the kitty gets home. So we do testing at home and share those numbers with the vet.
     
  9. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Would it be feasible for you to feed all of your brood on wet food? I know that some members here leave wet food down for their cats to graze on throughout the day. (I can't do that for Saoirse - she needs mini meals to keep her BG steady.)
     
  10. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Hi Cathy

    We've got 6 cats in the house here - 5 indoor only and 1 indoor/outdoor. I've been leaving Friskies wet food out for 10 hours out of the 12 each cycle and just removing any leftovers 2 hours before dosing time for Rosa. I just make sure she has a plate of food near me, where she likes to sleep anyway, so I can make sure the other cats aren't stealing all of her food. Some of the cats, including her twin, have taken to the wet food. Others still want the dry which is, since yesterday, only made available at certain times of day and only in our housemate's room as the cats that will only eat that are his. We have a CKD kitty who's also on a special diet (she's hubby's cat and he insists on feeding her the outrageously priced prescription food from the vet even though she doesn't like it and will take anything else she can in preference). It's not easy and it takes a fair amount of organizing but it is possible. It's a bit easier for me at the moment because I'm not working right now so I'm taking the opportunity to try and get them all into a feeding routine while still being available if any of them really wants food badly at some point during the day.

    You might find that taking all the food away 2 or 3 hours before Gus is due his next shot would mean that he's hungry enough to come in for food when you need him to. My 2 in particular out of all the cats here seem to start looking for food right after I've taken it away. Could be because it's a time they've always eaten at and I just hadn't noticed or it could just be because they're cats and want what they don't have but it does mean they're usually ready to eat when I put the fresh food out later on. Would he maybe get into a routine where you could call him in with a plate of food when he needs his shot?
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  11. Cathy.S

    Cathy.S Guest

    Thanks everyone for your support and suggestions. I have never taken up food, because there are so many, but I could try that too! I live in the City limits of our town, but close enough to a place where people dump animals. That is how I have come to have so many! At one point there were 15 of them. So, putting dry food down was a easy way to care for them. I am down to 9 and might be able to adjust some. They all eat dry food, but I also give them Fancy Feast canned food in the early morning and early evening. Most eat some of both!

    Being into my 5th day, the shots are going okay! He has eaten something, be it wet or dry or both, prior to each shot. We seem to have the 12 hours down pretty good, but I have a lot of concerns still. I worry about him having an episode like I've read about....reaction or whatever. I have the corn syrup close, but since I've never seen one, it is scary and I worry! I know that I have to roll with this for now and try to get a good pattern going, but again still concerned. I worry if I am up for the task. I don't believe in putting an animal to sleep unless they are in pain and there is nothing that can be done. Right now, I wouldn't even consider it. I don't work at this time, but I do have a problem with it only being me that can give him the shots.

    Again, thank you and I am still reading and learning!
     
  12. Cathy.S

    Cathy.S Guest

    Let me say a little more about my comment about putting an animal to sleep and it not being an option until it is absolutely necessary! I have an 18 year old (Precious), my first animal in many, many years. She too have been sick and blood tests fun and I am supposed to take her back for more blood work. Not exactly sure what is going on, but the tests showed a urinary problem at the time with the vet wanting to check on the thyroid and a possible problem with that. Not having an income, I have had to borrow money to care for all of my animals. Gus then turns up with this problem and of course it has been overwhelming. Precious has not been back to the vet yet, as I wonder if it is the right thing to do....putting her through test after test, only to maybe have to administer drugs or shots or whatever they say for the rest of her life. She has lived a long and blessed life here with me, getting anything and everything a cat could want. My home looks more like it is for cats than people, with cat furniture in every room, window perches all over the house, and toys all over the place. All my animals, when they arrived, got a feline leukemia test, shots, and were fixed. I have had 2 that had kittens before I could get them to the vet to be fixed. So, I've been through a lot with all these animals, but they are family! I have had to put down 6 over the years and it was torture for me, but a necessary thing for them at the time. One that has bothered me for 2 years was a calico that was very sick and although we tried medication, she was to the point that she would run from me every time she saw me. She was old and tired and hated the medicine. I felt that I was doing her an injustice by forcing her to live the few remaining years being tortured with medication that she hated so much. I finally made the decision to put her to sleep and believe me it was not an easy decision to come too. At the vet's office, he missed the vein when injecting the medicine to put her down and she fought. I thought I would die on the spot. Did I do the right thing, because of the way she fought. It haunts me to this day! But, if I really take the time to think about it, she was not living a comfortable life and happy, so I have to believe it was the right decision. The others were a decision that there was so struggle making because of how very sick they were. So, Gus.....is he in pain? I know the shots don't hurt him, but he lays around, not very active, sleeps a lot, doesn't go outside as much (although it is winter here) and just seems sad. But, I don't know if he is in pain. I am guessing not, but how do you know!

    I will continue to give these shots and do the very best for Gus that I can. But, if I ever feel that he is really in pain and hurting, I will not put him through any more. And it is not because it may be easier for me, it will totally be him. I will not let an animal suffer, period. So, thanks for letting me ramble on and give you some background. Again, putting any animal down is not something I take lightly and I am not looking at that possibility for Gus! But, getting familiar with what we are facing is what I am trying to do and you have all made some great suggestions. I am also not finished reading everything you have to offer here, so I am still learning, but I would like to know if any of you can tell me if your animals are in pain of any kind? It would be helpful to know that I am doing the right thing with giving shots, but also helpful to know when it might be they time to look at how this is affecting him and his quality of life. Thanks!
     
  13. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Diabetics does not cause pain. However, as cats get old they have medical problems that do cause pain and/or result in a very por quality of life. Sometimes it is better to say goodbye. Over the the last three years I have had to say goodbye to 10 of may cats. The last one, bout a month ago was the easiest (it one can ever say it is easy). Patches , who has been diabetic for over ten years) was fine in the morning then a litter before noon I heard a thump from the bathroom. She was lying on the floor and could not walk. Off to the vet. Blood work and x-rays showed nothing. She had a good life and it was here time.
     
  14. Cathy.S

    Cathy.S Guest

    Thanks Larry, it helps to hear that he is not necessarily in pain, but that I will watch for signs and make the appropriate decisions if it comes to that!!!
     
  15. Cathy.S

    Cathy.S Guest

    Just a small update on how Gus and I are doing and I read again comments that some of you posted better. At this stage, I have a tendency to scan and not read completely! This is day nine and so far I have pricked myself with the needle, missed him I guess because his fur was wet, so I am guessing the needle went thru the part of skin I had pinched to give the shot! Gus eats both dry and wet food and I have not changed yet. Fancy Feast wet and dry are down and then I also have meow mix and Science Diet for Seniors down too, all the time, because I have 9 cats! Gus is good with the am shot, but has begun to run from me at the pm shot time. I give him prozinc and yes...using the right sized needles. Have not started checking BP yet. I have read so much of what is on the website here and other places and it is still overwhelming, but we are getting thru for now, however, with 9 animals and the 12 hour time frame (with some room to play a little), I have not hit the exact 12 hour mark everyday. Gus used to be one of the first to eat, but now it seems like he waits for everyone else first. But, usually we get it done withing 20/40 minutes. We have a Vet appointment in a week and a half to check the BP and adjust amount of insulin if needed.

    I have noticed though that there seems to be little change in his behavior so far! It is winter where I live and most of the animals stay in or go out into the heated shed (which is something he did daily), but not anymore. He stays in and sleeps! We are hanging in there for now. Maybe I am a horrible pet owner, but if Gus does not show improvement and continues to run from evening shots, I will be rethinking what we are going to do. I love Gus and he, along with the others, have had a great life. They get more stuff than I do!!! But, I will not let an animal suffer if I think they are period. We are going forward with the hope that this works, but the first sign of major distress, I will not make him go thru more. Honestly, I don't know how all of you have done what you do for your beloved animals. I am not employed right now, but even I have a hard time being right here every 12 hours. Anyway, there is our update and I pray that Gus will recover or at least get leveled out, but I still fear the worst could happen. Maybe I'm a terrible person for believing that a life of injections, testing, vet visits he hates...is just wrong. It is not the money, it is what is best for him?? Cried everyday since he was diagnosed. Have 2 others that are not in good health and the thought of losing 3 is unbearable! But, I will do what I have to and I won't let any of them suffer in pain if I think that is what is happening.
     
  16. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    It is still really early days so I think you need to give yourself a pat on the back. Most cats are no where near regulated in the first week. The aim is really just to try to get the shots into him. It will get easier and you will find a way of fitting it into your routine.

    His won't be in pain, more sort of really like he has a lack of energy. This will disappear once regulation gets closer.

    With regards the injection when you pinch the skin do you 'make a tent' with it? I was taught to pinch the skin up between my thumb and forefinger and then you allow the pinched skin to relax slightly and use my other hand to poke a dent underneath the where my fingers where holding the skin. Then to inject into the pouch you have created. Does that make sense at all?! I injected whilst my cat was eating and he didn't notice all that much. Have you tried doing it then.

    With regards the constant trips to the vet, once you hometest this will pretty much become unnecessary. If you can learn to test at home you can keep better track of how the insulin is affecting his levels, we can help tailor the dose and you can let your vet know the results via emailing the spreadsheet and obviously they can also advise having reviewed it. Hometesting will also enable you to safely swap over to a complete low carb food and this will also help gus's levels come down and hopefully the need for as much insulin.

    I know the first few weeks are the hardest but it does get better.
     
  17. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Its a process, not an event, so you really need to have some patience.

    Our "bible" on feline nutrition is Cat Info. If you really need to feed dry due to economics, there are 3 which are low carb enough to use: Swansong Epigen 90, Evo Cat and Kitten, and Young Again 0 Carb (internet only). I would slowly transition over to those; they should eat less because there is better nutrition in them.
    Once you get both the dry and canned food low carb, you will likely see some improvement. With all food changes, doing them gradually(about 20-25% per day) reduces the chances of food refusal, vomiting, and diarrhea.
     
  18. Cathy.S

    Cathy.S Guest

    Our tenth day and I haven't given Gus his shot yet, however he did eat really well. Then he vomited it all up and has since vomited again showing just a brown liquid. Still haven't given his shot, we have an hour to go.

    I understand that it is a process, yet am I doing right by him? I don't know that for sure. I have to be honest when I say that I don't have a lot of patience and expect him to act and feel better right away, which I know is not going to happen.
    I am calling the vet today to schedule his blood work and see if insulin needs adjusting. However, I don't know how you guys do it! Every 12 hours is extremely hard to do and I am here most of the time. I have no one else that will give him his shots, so if I am not right here at the right time, then I either have to withhold the shot or give late. Which then changes the schedule again. I am still getting the shot in within an hour time frame, but wondering if that is what made him sick this morning. Food, yes I can buy him different food, but with my circumstances of 8 other animals, him eating one kind of food when there is food down all the time is next to impossible. I am not giving up on him, but this is going to be much harder than I thought, even after reading everything the Vet didn't tell me. Frankly, it is making me sick. Worry, watching, wondering if 5 minutes here or 20 minutes there or even as much as and hour late for shots is going to harm him.

    I guess that I should admit that I am not good with illnesses! Not people or animals. However, with this particular situation it is not a cut and dry thing. It is a process, but I won't continue if his quality of life declines much more. I won't let him suffer. Thanks for all the advice. I will keep the precious animals that all of you are caring for in my prayers.
     
  19. Cathy.S

    Cathy.S Guest

    All that I said above is true or what is happening, but I really came on to ask: How do you do it? How do you do 12 hour shots daily alone? How do you know if they are in pain? How do you know that their quality of life is better by treating? At what point do you say, no more? I read where one person/family came home and found their cat's head in a bowl of water. They were able to save the cat for a short period of time, but I thought to myself that the cat could have drown and what a horrible way to go. But, I also went back and read some success stories and thought: How can I not continue to try? It is not going to be by the book though. I can't with several other felines in the house. All I can do it my best for Gus and I am hoping and praying my best is enough. Again, glad you are here for me to look up and read. I am still overwhelmed and then to see him sick, threw me this morning. We did get the shot in and so far he seems okay! I know it absolutely sounds like I don't want to treat Gus, but I do, if it will give him a few more years of a good quality of life. My animals have had the very best of everything over the years. My home looks like it was designed for them and not people. No matter what happens with Gus, I do know that he has had a great life. We will keep charging forward and see how it goes.
     
  20. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    If you have to keep the food the same for everyone, understand that Gus will be on insulin for the rest of his life. That is OK.

    If you were able to get all the cats to low carb canned, there is a possibility Gus could get off insulin. Being regulated, however, is an acceptable goal.

    Diabetics may experience painful neuropathy IF the glucose is not regulated.

    When the glucose is very high, the diabetic might feel sick and not want to eat.

    If the glucose gets too low, it can be deadly; that is why we encourage home blood glucose testing.
     
  21. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    The first few weeks are the worst and then it just becomes part of the routine. Once you see gus improve an begin to feel like his old self I think you will become happier about his treatment.

    It would be really helpful if you could amend your signature to include what gus is eating, what insulin he is on and anything else that might help other members. We have so many members I can't remember now and do to want to say something wrong.

    I would say that it is a commitment but one that brings many rewards. If your goal is remission or good regulation you have to put some work in by monitoring his blood glucose and then when you are changing him over to a wet food. The earlier you do this in his illness the better the chance of remission. Even just to keep him safe home testing before each shot is the way to go.

    Re the cat who was very poorly, I don't believe it was the insulin that caused that but rather a combination of other factors including kidney failure.
     
  22. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Editing your Signature

    In the upper right corner of the screen, within the dark blue bar, you will see ID, Inbox, and Alerts

    Click on your ID.

    On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
    This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
    This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
    Add any other text, such as
    your name,
    cat's name,
    date of Dx (diagnosis)
    insulin
    meter
    any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.
    Click the Save Changes button at the bottom.

    Always click the Save Changes button at the bottom when you have changed anything.
     
  23. Cathy.S

    Cathy.S Guest

    Guys, I have 9 cats and changing all of them would be a nightmare. I know that you are giving me your best advice, but there is no way to change over that many animals. This is how most were raised from babies, not that I wanted them, they came to me and I took the responsibility for them and have had some wonderful experiences with each and every one. No, I don't want Gus on insulin for the rest of his life and I certainly don't want him in pain. Because you just said that he may be in pain, may make my decision easier. I think this website is very informative and helpful. It is great for the people that are treating their cats. I was never given the facts by the vet at the time of diagnosis, what all it would have to take place for Gus or myself, the cost, the 12 hour shot is really all I got and sent on my way! Gus and I are trying, but it has been horrible for me. He is taking it all in stride right now, but is running from me in the evenings when shot time comes. He has only been sick once that I know of, but with 8 others that cough up hairballs and food periodically, it would be difficult to know 100% it has only been once. He eats wet Fancy Feast and dry Fancy Feast, there is some non prescript science diet for older cats down and some meow mix. Gus has always been a more dry food cat, but does also eat wet food. We are doing the very best we can at this point, keeping in mind that he is one of nine to care for in my home. And when I said I didn't want them, is because people dump animals, kittens, etc, in my area and I took them in, got them fixed and tried to provide a good life for each of them. When one would become too sick for treatment or I couldn't handle the treatment or they would run from me, hide from me, and do this every single time they had to have an oral dose of something and their quality of life was suffering badly, I have put them to sleep, with a huge chunk of my heart going right along with them. It kills me to think of Gus being in pain if I am treating or not treating.

    I read stories of what some of your animals have been through and am asking myself if I could go thru and emergency with them in such a horrible state and feel it is humane to not let them go. I applaud all that have gone thru any crisis and handled it and came out the other side with the cat better. However, I may not be the kind of person(s) all of you are. Every single day I struggle over the right thing to do, not just for Gus, but for all the animals in the house. I really believe I need to rethink all of this now. Thank you for all suggestions and advice and help.
     
  24. Cathy.S

    Cathy.S Guest

    Sorry, I am again overwhelmed. I was told by the vet that Gus would have to be on insulin the rest of his life, yet read where some are only on it for a few weeks or months. Once again, shocked at just how little I was told and I guess have not yet read! I love this animal and the 8 others in the house, but I am not good with even the simplest things like clipping nails. The vet's assistant is coming to my home tonight to help groom 2 and clip nails. So, caring for a sick animal is hard for me. I have done it before, but it what bad! Please forgive any outbursts that I may make under my post here, but I just need to vent a little I guess!
    I have put more info as requested in my profile. I would love to post a pic of Gus, but I don't have a current good photo. I will try to get one soon. Again, thank you for helping and I hope being patient.
     
  25. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Cathy
    Just take it 1 step at a time.
    Food changes should always be done gradually to avoid GI upsets. You might try adding 10-20% of a low carb, over the counter dry, such as Evo Cat and Kitten, or Wysong Epigen 90, and see how it goes for a few days. If it works, great and increase another 10-20%. If not, you know you gave it a shot.
    If he were experiencing neuropathy, you would notice him being unable to stand completely. This isn't painful per se, it just makes it hard to get around. Getting a proper dose of insulin onboard will help with (and prevent) that, as will supplementing with methyl-B-12, a specific form of Vitamin B-12 called methylcobalamin.
     
  26. Cathy.S

    Cathy.S Guest

    Thanks BJM for the advise. I will have to order these foods, because I live in a very small town and they don't care foods like this. We have a Walmart. LOL I know I have to just breathe!! Gus is walking fine at this point. He sleeps a lot, but then so do the rest, as it is winter here. I do see him lay down in places that he normally doesn't and I think that may be part of the illness or treatment. We go next week for more blood work and insulin adjustments if needed.
    I do remember you mentioning those brands/kinds of food before and I will check into where I have to go to get them or order over the internet. I guess my entire problem is doing what is best for him and I don't have a lot of confidence in myself, giving the right food, right time, and we can't seem to get into a good routine. This every 12 hours is very difficult and I don't have anyone to help. Having to leave in the evening for a nephew's basketball game or to see a friend who just lost her best friend and is suffering from cancer herself, I had to think.....can I go.?? That is during the time Gus is supposed to have his shot. It is a lot to process, but we are trying to go one step at a time. For me...just getting him to eat something before the evening shot is a victory. Since they have had food down for his entire life, he could eat at any given time and I don't always know. I will probably knock my head against the wall a few more times and then get it together. Thanks again and I hope that nothing I have said is offending or bad. I have had another Vet tell me to put him to sleep. So, facing a lot! Thanks for hanging in there with me and so many others during this difficult time.
     
  27. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    Hi cathy

    I think a lot of us go through a whole range of emotions when our cat gets diagnosed and some of that is, dare I say, a little resentment/concern at having to suddenly stick to a strict rota.

    Let's see if we can't make this work better for you. Is there a time you happen to usually be in the house? Say early morning and early evening. Could you maybe bring the shots early in the morning and then at night. Would that work better for you? I found 6am and 6 pm worked well for me. I could get up and see to my cat and then if I wanted to go back to bed or get on and go to work. Then at 6 pm I was always at home to have dinner so would give remi his shot. This still left me the whole evening to pop out if I wanted to. Once I got a time that worked better in my life the issue went away.
     
  28. Cathy.S

    Cathy.S Guest

    Phlika: We are on a 6am-6pm schedule with varies a little (20-30minutes) depending on Gus eating. This morning he did great. He ate wet food, got his shot and is resting now. I did have the vet's assistant here last night, as she was grooming 2 cats for me that had place I just couldn't get. We discussed this a little and there are a couple of things or questions I do have.... 1) some of you talked about remission down the road, but they will always be a diabetic, which I know the answer is yes! She however said that rarely does a cat get to go off insulin, is that true? She and I also talked about home testing and she told me that the accuracy is usually off with home testing. Is that true? I know that once the vet says we are giving the right amount of insulin, a test at home can be a comparison. I'm also sure they want to make the money by having me haul Gus in every 3 weeks. Do you guys take your cats to the vet every few weeks? Or do you have confidence in your personal home testing?
    Then there will be a problem with me getting him to sit still long enough to test! I'm sure we can get there, but it will take a long time for that to happen. With so many cats, they come to me on their terms and I haven't went and picked them up on a regular basis. In the evening my lap is like a revolving door, with all but one taking their turns. So, this is going to be the biggest problem for me and now I have a vet's assistant saying that it will be extremely hard to get a blood sample form his ear.

    I did watch the video's on how, so that is not the problem, it is getting him to hold still long enough for me to try! Anyway, Gus seemed better today for the first time since we started insulin!!!
     
  29. Cathy.S

    Cathy.S Guest

    I'm not sure if I explained or not, but Gus lost almost 4 lbs and was drinking a lot of water, which is why we went to the vet. He had no other signs and with the exception of vomiting one morning out of the last 12, he seems to be close to normal. With it being cold outside, he doesn't go out as often as he might when warmer. However, Gus used to be out in the heated shed a great amount of time in the winter, but not this year. I read that they get cold or feel coldness more with this disease??
     
  30. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    If you switch to low carb, over the counter, canned or raw food the odds of getting to a diet controlled state are improved, not guaranteed. Insulin lets the pancreas take a break and may allow it to recover function, so long as the carb level is kept low.
    All glucometers are intended to be guides, not lab equivalents. See my signature link Glucometer Notes for more details.
    I'm very confident that home testing will show me if I need to adjust the insulin dose, and show me if I need to intervene to boost the glucose to safe levels.
     
  31. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    1. There was a nice remission rates article out of the University of Queensland. Something like Lantus >90% levimir were in the 80-90% range, PZI 37-50%, Vetsulin/Caninsulin 20-30%, the NPH were <20%.

    We have over 300 kitties that have gone OTJ using the Lantus protocols. Don't know how many kitties here using Prozinc have gone OTJ. My cat was the first kitty my vet practice had seen go OTJ. But then, this is the vet practice that recommended high carb Hill's W/d dry kibble for Wink. It's no wonder Wink was the first OTJ kitty for that vet practice, since they ignore the AAHA Diabetes Guidelines for Dogs and Cats.

    We trust our own testing. Our kitties are not stressed in our home environment and we get more realistic BG readings than you would at the vet. Please home testing is a lot less expensive if you use a human glucometer.

    No glucometer is 100% accurate. You are looking for ranges in BG levels and adjust the insulin dose based on factors such as the nadir and how long your kitty has been a particular dose, how the clinical signs are looking, etc.

    Break the testing down into small steps. Do those steps at least a dozen times a day until you build up to the poke and sip part. With your crazy household, it sounds to me like you may want to find a quiet spot with a door you can close, to give you a few moments of peace to test. Just you and your sugarkitty Gus. I had to do that separate space with testing Wink.
     
  32. Cathy.S

    Cathy.S Guest

    Just a short update on Gus....he seems to be doing well on his insulin. We go back to the Vet next week for testing. I have not yet started home testing, which I know is not a good thing in the eyes of the group, but we are taking this one slow step at a time. Gus is eating wet food, mostly Fancy Feast, but also some dry. He is still losing some hair, but that is slowing. Last night he was out on the screened in back porch in a chair sleeping, which is more normal for him. He has however taken to sleeping in my room on a big blanket on the dresser, which is new! Morning shots are easy, but evening he wants to run some, but is usually now running to the blanket in my bedroom and we do the shot. Have missed again for the second time since we started 16 days ago and stuck myself, but overall we are calming down and getting a routine going. As for home testing, that will begin after the Vet visit. I think I stated before that his assistant said that home testing would not give me the correct results, but I will ignore that and begin if we have improvement. I don't know how this will all play out, but I do think that this is a great site for people with cats that have this illness. So much information and people that care. Anyway, that is it for now, Gus seems good, I am calmer and we are trying to get through it together.
     
  33. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Getting over the initial shock of the diagnosis, and starting to get into a routine of caring for your diabetic kitty Gus are huge steps in this sugardance. Congratulations and let us know how things are going after the vet visit.
     
  34. Cathy.S

    Cathy.S Guest

    I don't know whether I need to start a new thread or just post here, but I need some advice.
    Gus was supposed to have blood work done today to see if his insulin needs adjusting. This was a Vet visit. However, they had to cancel. But, during the course of the conversation we discussed cost and it came up that the blood work would have to be sent off to be read. Now, he got a blood test for the diagnosis and was started on insulin of 2 and a half cc's twice a day or units, not sure of the term, but it is a small amount in the right syringe! Why or how can the vet diagnose him, prescribe insulin and then need a blood test sent off somewhere to be read to see how much to adjust insulin. I spoke with the assistant, not the vet, but am questioning how they determine he is diabetic with a blood test done in the office, yet have to send off somewhere to find out how to adjust the amount given. Is this normal??? And I do live in a very small town of 14,000 people, but I would think if you can give a diagnosis, then you can determine the proper amount of insulin? Can anyone shed any light on the subject. Will check back later to see if anyone knows. Thanks and please let me know if I need to start a new thread for questions like this. Thanks again. And Gus is okay, but so far the insulin doesn't seem to have made a change expect he is not losing additional weight. I have not started home testing, because I was waiting until the vet adjusted to the proper amount. I know that all of you home test and with a $90.00 test coming, I get the reason why and also to give them the right amount, but having just started 20 some odd days ago, I wanted the Vet to tell me the right amount before I home tested. Hope all of this makes some sense to someone.
     
  35. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Our vet can run most of a full blood work in house, but to get a complete blood work done they send it out to a lab for analysis. It sounds as though you might have a similar situation. When Rosa was diagnosed, they were able to tell me what her glucose level was in a matter of minutes. They had wanted to send a sample out for complete work, but as she was so stressed they couldn't get enough blood to do that so had to settle for as much as they could do in house with a smaller sample. They were, however, able to give me most levels from the sample they analyzed (kidney and liver values etc). I think there are a few things they can't test for without sending the sample out and they would definitely have preferred to do that at least once to make sure there wasn't anything else going on. They did calculate her dose directly from her BG on the day though and told me that they would adjust it based on curve results in future which doesn't require a full lab analysis. I went the home test route on that, mostly to save Rosa the stress of being at the vet for a full day but also because their curve is done by testing every 4 hours - and if they tested Rosa at +4 and +8, they'd almost certainly miss her nadir by at least an hour or two.

    It sounds as though they might be trying to make sure there isn't an additional underlying condition that's affecting his BG - they should be able to confirm that for you if you ask them.
     
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  36. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Most basic lab equipment at a vet's office will run a complete blood count (CBC) and may include some analyses of minerals (electrolytes such as calcium, sodium, etc.), glucose (high levels suggest diabetes) and so on.
    What it may not test is fructosamine, which provides an estimate of average glucose levels over time. Vets may use that to adjust the dose, although most vets want a curve - serial glucose tests from pre-shot to pre-shot, every 2 hours.

    Given the stress response many cats have at the vet, a curve done at home is superior as it avoids vet-stress raising the numbers.
     
    Cathy.S likes this.
  37. Cathy.S

    Cathy.S Guest

    Thanks for the information. Going to talk to the vet first thing in the morning!
     
  38. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    If you do any have any further questions it is probably better to start a new thread in the main health forum. That way more people should see it and respond :)
     
    Cathy.S likes this.

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