Convenia (Kicking Myself)

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Emmy, Sep 16, 2018.

  1. Emmy

    Emmy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    I haven't done a search on the Convenia shot here at FDMB yet, but I will. I want to start a thread anyway. It's 3 am and I'm kicking myself because I said yes to a Convenia injection on the spot at the vet's office, when what I should have done was research it first. I felt very stressed, on top of being generally overtired, taking Mabel to the vet. It had been a hard decision to make. I felt, observed, she hadn't been feeling well, and I wanted to get blood work. Bloodwork panel did not signal any systemic problem. Her blood sugar was spot on while we were there, at 145. She's gets 1.5 u of Levemir every 12 hours, adjusted upward .25 u if her blood sugar goes up between 200-300. For food she still wants kibble, but I put warm water with lo carb wet food x2 daily and she drinks the water-wet food mix and mainly leaves the rest. This I do for hydration and regular bowel movements. For kibble I'd been transitioning her away from Orijen FitTrim, which is too high in carb, to Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein, but cautiously, due to the hi protein, 59%. But back to the Convenia shot: I am so scared right now because this antibiotic shot lasts 2 months. It's now 38 hours since she had it and she just had a very soft lighter than usual colored stinky stool. I asked the vet pointedly if Convenia had any side effects, and he said, no. The reason he offered the Convenia shot--gingivitis, possible/probable tooth resorption, and any possibility of bladder infection. And now I've just read that Convenia isn't the go-to antibiotic for those in any case. I had worried about her teeth and possible periodontitis, and I felt so bad she might be suffering from tooth pain and if there was a chance of clearing up any bacterial infection in the gums I wanted to, of course. But about side effects of Convenia, I should have known better. I just read a whole list of side effects, including diarrhea, because like other antibiotics it kills the good bacteria, too. But Convenia can also cause anemia, I read, so now I need to worry about that. Her red blood cell count was good, but how will I know if it gets depleted? And how suddenly could that happen? Last I'll just say I read Dr. Pierson on Convenia just now and she does not recommend it at all, especially for anything other than skin infection which is what it is designed to treat, and even then, she'd rather we go with oral antibiotics. As she points out, now that Convenia is in my Mabel's system I can't get it out for 2 months. I am beside myself right now. Do you have any experience with Convenia? I had some Purina Fortiflora powder in the cupboard and though the expiry date is Jun 2018, the packets are sealed, so I just gave her part of a packet in some wet food water. I'll get some new asap. But I don't know if that's going to be enough to undo what I've done. I feel helpless because I'm so scared and tired at this moment. I just read one other little bit on the forums after a search but it didn't say much about experience with Convenia. I'm afraid to look now. Maybe in the morning I might find some responses here. Other than that I'm just going to pray. Let me clarify though she isn't throwing up. Her stool was soft, mushy, stinky, and lighter colored than usual. To me that's not good because she'd been doing so well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
    Reason for edit: Add
  2. Mel & Mo

    Mel & Mo Member

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    Dec 8, 2017
    Wow, and here I was wanting to go back and get that shot, Mo got it a month ago! It seemed easier of course and he did seem better for a week or two, then downhill. I too think he had tooth or gum problems,. The oral antibiotic I’m giving him now for his uti has started working good after just a few days but man he hates it and I do too! I’m glad you told me, that’s crazy! I thought it was the greatest thing.Whats the Fortiflora? I’m sure I should know Something to counteract?
    I never even knew anything bad about that shot. It’s 4:30 am here and I have to go to work in a few hours. so I’m gonna try to sleep but I’ll start to think of something and look through his paperwork.
    It
     
  3. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    BunBun got a Covinia shot when he got a dental. I got the shot since at them BunBun was very very hard to pill and there was risk that pilling could irritate the sites of the many extractions. He had no adverse effects.
     
  4. Emmy

    Emmy Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    Mel and Mo, can't sleep and searched our forums and found a thread about Convenia. Lisa Pierson's article on Convenia must be on her web site. Google her name + Convenia. I'll read it tomorrow morning. I'll also write you then. I am glad your Mo did not have adverse reaction. Mabel didn't go into shock, but im just praying it won't do more harm than good. Fortflora is a probiotic to help with good bacteria needed for digestion.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  5. Emmy

    Emmy Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    That's helpful for me to hear. I'm getting impression it can be bad for some cats, not all. Just praying now. Also feel concerned about its use generally per Dr Pierson. Thanks for your reply.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  6. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    I agree. My vets proposed Covinia for some of my other cats but I declined since it was not worth the risk
     
  7. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Both of my girls have had Convenia shots with no bad consequences. Every cat is different and can be affected differently. I would not 'freak out' over some soft stool, if you have seen no other symptoms indicating issues. So many things can cause soft stool - even when a cat has not had issues with it recently, it can happen. Remnants of Convenia can remain in the system for up to two months, but it is really only effective for two weeks. It can treat things other than skin infections. Willow had a couple of tooth extractions recently due to resorption. One of the teeth had become abscessed and had caused bone infection and inflammation. A biopsy was done, so we know what it was. She was given Convenia so that her mouth would not have to be messed with to give her oral antibiotics while it was healing, and the dental specialist said that Convenia would definitely address the type of bacteria that was present. She even had a second shot two-weeks later due to the seriousness of the bone infection. This specialist thinks antibiotics are extremely over-prescribed, which I tend to agree with. If there has not been a test that has confirmed a bacterial infection, why give antibiotics?

    Regarding the possible tooth resorption...I do not know your full situation, but if it is at all possible, I would recommend getting x-rays done and, if there are resorptions, get the teeth removed. My Willow has a history of resorptions going back probably 9 years, so this is something I am quite familiar with. The very first time resorptions were found and the teeth removed, I could not believe the difference I saw in Willow. I had no idea she had been hurting, but she must have been based on the difference in her afterwards. Until this last one, I did not realize how bad/serious things could become. Last year, in the x-rays, the specialist had noted a slight 'halo' around the roots of her upper right canine, but it was not bad and the tooth was still stable. Just under a year later, the x-rays were very different, and when he went in to extract it, it was worse than anyone expected. It looked bad enough that he suspected cancer (thank goodness, it wasn't). It had gone up into her nasal passage. Anyway, my point is that it's important to address these teeth if at all possible and as soon as possible.

    I hope she is okay and that you have worried for nothing. :bighug:
     
  8. Beck and Grandpa (GA)

    Beck and Grandpa (GA) Member

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    Jun 4, 2018
    I love Convenia for my Grandpa cat. It has been the best thing for him lately to help with his ear infections when we don't want to give him oral antibiotics. The shot lasts about 12 days. While it isn't as good as Clindamycin for teeth and isn't the first choice for upper respiratory ills (which are often viral anyway), I've never had any reason to regret giving it.
     
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  9. Emmy

    Emmy Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    To: FurBabies Mama

    Thank you so much for your response.

    To your question: If there has not been a test that has confirmed a bacterial infection, why give antibiotics?

    The vet looked at her teeth at my request. It was a spotty check because the blood draw had been challenging and actually, I was pleased with how the vet and tech "handled" her. They didn't force her to endure more. They respected her limits.

    Importantly, they got the blood, after a few tries, for what they called the 9-pack, which they did in-house. Her WBC normal low at 5.70, her lym lo at 0.55, her neu % hi at 81.5, her lym% lo at 9.6, fortunately her RBC 8.83 & HGB 14.9. BG 142, BUN 33.9. TP hi 9.2. I have only vague ideas about these #s. I assume vet based the offer of the Convenia shot on what he saw in her mouth, a possible or probable molar resorption and what he saw in the blood work numbers, OR the numbers don't say anything about what's happening in her mouth, and he based it a little on my narrative, too.

    I know you are spot on that the only way really to deal with the teeth is directly. He didn't offer that, though I know they have done extractions there. It is possible he is keeping his recommendations in line with my financial means.

    The other thing he mentioned was that it could help with possible UTI. I described her very good litter box habits. I also said her urine accumulates not in balls like my other cat's, but is more sludgy. I do not know if this is due to possible ketones. But I just try to keep her blood sugar in check to avoid that. I am always striving for the 100-150 range, as she appears to feel most energetic right in that range. With regard to any possible UTI, I just know it is not uncommon. I believe he gave the Convenia for the bacterial infection of gingivitis, with periodontitis with possible resorption, but thought that if there were any level of UTI the Convenia might benefit her some that way, too.

    I am foremost relieved that you are relating the Convenia to efficacy for dental infection. I believe he saw enough of her teeth and gums to make that call. He is very experienced with cats. I asked for him because I knew that. So, I went blindly trusting, too much maybe. It seems that Convenia is flat out controversial.

    One other thing I realized during the sleepless night. I wanted to treat my cats yesterday evening so I gave them some of a different canned food for supper. Purina Pro Plan Prime Plus turk & gib or chicken & beef is lo carb according to Dr. Pierson's chart. After I ordered it I saw on her chart the hi fat content tho. I took a can to the vet and asked him. He said he recommends it when an older cat needs weight gain. Mabel weighed in perfectly at 10 lbs, so I certainly don't want that. I thought maybe I could give a little of that canned food once in a while as a treat. I wonder if the soft caramel colored stool resulted from eating some of this food. Maybe it's a trigger to the liver? I just jumped right to the Convenia as the first cause for the dramatic change in stool.

    Thank you again for your response. Emmy
     
  10. Emmy

    Emmy Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    Beck and Grandpa:
    Thank you for your response. Hearing some support for and positive experiences with Convenia is helping me.

    And, I'm starting to wonder if giving her some Purina Pro Plan Prime Plus turk & gib canned food as a supper treat (they generally love to try new canned foods if they're delish!) was the culprit. I think it's high in fat. Maybe that food caused the soft stinky caramel colored poo. Also, last night her BG at 12:40 am was 214, a little over the top for her. When I get a 300, rarely, that's really over the top.

    We were so fortunate she had been in remission a whole year. Now, since April '18 she's on insulin again and I've been slowly trying to find cause. Thus, the transition to Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein, and of course, lo carb canned foods. And now, what is for us a big deal, the trip to the local vet, the blood work, the consult, the on the spot decisions. To me it seems drugs are just part of the veterinary tool kit and they offer these readily. It seems similar that way to western human medicine. I know so little and just went with it because I felt desperate to help Mabel any way I could.

    My internet access is periodic. I get a hotspot by library loan and have that a week at a time periodically. Otherwise I use my cell phone. It's challenging for me to participate more on FDMB on my cell phone. An FDMB app that would make access by phone easier would sure be great, wouldn't it? Thank you for "being there" FDMB! Emmy
     
  11. Beck and Grandpa (GA)

    Beck and Grandpa (GA) Member

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    Jun 4, 2018
    My mother has a cat that had really bad stomatitis in his gums and definitely needed extractions, but finances were limited and the vet is fairly conservative. Whenever Swift's mouth became painful and he would stop eating even wet food, she would take him for a Convenia shot. Within a day or so he was eating again and things got back to normal for quite a long time. After doing this a few times she finally had the entire dental done with extractions. The Convenia bought them both time and relief.

    I have several cats, and when we offer a new food the litter boxes get quite "interesting." Same with my dog, although that is accompanied by room- clearing gas. My roommate has come home from work more than once to be here only a short time before saying, "You changed her food, didn't you?"
     
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  12. Emmy

    Emmy Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    Thanks. Ever since I realized it could have been that foods high fat or just change of food I am hoping it really was. In these days while I'm fatigued I forget my own guideposts, one of which has been, first look to the food. There are usually multiple variables in play, especially with diabetes, but even without it. Emmy
     
  13. Zipdrive

    Zipdrive Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2017
    Simone actually had positive reactions to the Convenia injections my vet gave her for the pancreatitis and her other issues, no ill side effects thankfully. Thing is the dosage she received only lasted for 14 days, not 2 months like yours Emmy.

    The first time Simone was diagnosed with pancreatitis (Dec 2016) she was given a 14 day dose of Convenia plus pain and anti-nausea meds that I brought home to give her for 5 extra days. Then because she still was showing the odd sign of pancreatitis after the 2 weeks the vet gave her another 14 day dose and sent me home with a few more days of pain and anti-nausea meds, and all was good with her. Until 2 months later when she was diagnosed with the diabetes that is. Though I doubt the antibiotic was to blame for that, more so the pancreatitis. Even in the following months while on insulin no ill effects from the past Convenia injections.

    Even the emergency vet I took Simone to a week and a half ago gave her a Convenia injection. That bill listed it at a 0.6cc dosage level. My vets bills don't list the dosage amount in the injection, just the name and how many doses/injections were given. I went through vet bills from 2004 when my other Siamese developed pancreatitis but it doesn't list the name of the antibiotic used on her back then so as to compare with Convenia.
     
  14. Emmy

    Emmy Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    ZIPDRIVE: Good to hear from several people now whose feline companions were able to handle the Convenia and even use it to benefit. Yes, the antibiotic actively fights the bacteria 14 days, but the drug lingers longer, up to 2 months on the outside. I think what I wrote was unclear; I was in such a fright last night. Going to the Vet was stressful. I fear it because it is very easy to exploit people when they are at their most vulnerable, wanting to protect their families, the children, their pets, themselves. It is, of course, much more complicated than that. Their intentions may be good, but they are professionals with protocols. They cannot be invested in individual animals the way we are. They sell services, and those services are extremely expensive. It is a recipe for distrust if you ask me. I read about all these caring people on this message board spending oodles of money on their beloved animals because they care for them and some of the services I think are questionable. I've been sold things I didn't need or at least didn't use. I find Dr. Lisa Pierson's opinions and insights convincing. She is swimming against the stream and so reading her and comparing her opinions in the aftermath of visiting one's local and mainstream vet can confuse and shake one up. As for Mabel, she is okay tonight. Not great, but okay. Simone RIP. Thanks for your note. I have appreciated hearing from the people who have responded in my thread.
     
  15. Emmy

    Emmy Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    Update on Mabel. She seems rather normal at this time. But she hasn't had a complete bowel movement since the episode of squishy stinky poop that raised the alarm bells. In response to that very soft stinky poop episode and the fact of having had the Convenia shot Friday I put a dose of Fortiflora in watery wet food yesterday morning. I'm not overly confident in Fortiflora but have used it before and I am guessing it's a good idea to give a probiotic in conjunction with the Convenia that will keep working for 2 weeks +. I wonder if anybody else has done this.
     
  16. Zipdrive

    Zipdrive Member

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    Feb 18, 2017
    I've never used a probiotic with Simone but when she would have bouts of constipation or harder than normal stools I'd give her 1/8th teaspoon of Restoralax mixed in with her soupy wet food in the morning every other day for a couple days. The idea being to soften but not cause loose stools. Worked pretty good and the vet said was actually better than using Lactulose.
     
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  17. Emmy

    Emmy Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    Update on Mabel vis a vis last Friday's Convenia shot. She pooped last night after missing at least one bowel movement. And I attribute that to plenty of liquids (extra water in wet food) and to resorting to Orijen fit n trim for kibble, not lo enough carb to keep blood sugar where I like it but certainly must have fiber because it makes for lots of poop. I had also put Fortiflora probiotic powder in wet food day after the very soft caramel colored stinky poop for which I can't know whether it was caused by Convenia or the intro of Purina Prime Plus canned, lo in carb but hi in fat--and it was a bad time to give a food new to them--and maybe Mabel shouldn't have that food because of hi fat. I always make mistakes. Anyway, something worked or she is resilient. Whilst there is still some soft poo most of it was normal for her. Yes, I'm going into perhaps poo much detail, perhaps more than you want to know. I will probably not take the risk of Convenia in future unless it is for very good reason and the only option. If you are interested read Lisa Pierson DVM on Convenia. Soon I will lose my internet access for another spell and will rely on my phone again. It's harder to access FDMB by my phone. Thanks for this great Web site!
     
  18. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

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    Oct 11, 2015
    we never had a issue with convenia:smuggrin:
     
  19. Emmy

    Emmy Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    Update on Mabel and Convenia. Mabel had the 2-week antibiotic shot Convenia 12 days ago. Her blood sugar readings are now more erratic than before the shot.

    She also has a combination stool that is lighter and softer on the inside and her normal dark color on the outside, and her bms are not as regular so she is somewhat constipated, but she is going every second or third day.

    She had an incidence of what I guess was pancreatitis yesterday and the day before and wouldn't eat at all which is unusual. She had thrown up early in morning. Her BG had shot up and then yesterday came way down so I needed to just get her to eat. By then she was wet food in little amounts.

    Last night overnight she was apparently hungry, ate a lot of whatever she could find, which was Orijen Fit n Trim (her old food I continue to provide because it has fiber and Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein I'm trying to transition to. I don't want to push the transition too hard now.) So, her BG is up, a little too up.

    In sum, I don't know which parts of this roller coaster ride are from the Convenia. I'm just glad she tolerated that shot at all. It works for 2 weeks and stays in the body for weeks after. Since it is a very specific antibiotic that was given to her for general purpose, primarily because she has gingivitis, potential periodontitis, potential tooth resorption, I'm not sure it was worth it.

    Having read Lisa Pierson's opinion on this, at her web site, I would not say yes to a Convenia shot again. I think the veterinarian is one among many using Convenia liberally. I have her bloodwork values from right before the shot, and they were pretty good. The sure way to tell how the Convenia affected her would be to repeat the blood work once she pulls through this. Then I will pay to find out if and how the antibiotic they recommended has impacted her.

    In addition to the events described above she is somewhat more lethargic. So, I'm still praying she tolerates this. Once you say yes to Convenia, there is no turning back. I have been encouraged that some of you have written that your cats have had the Convenia shot without problems. It must depend somewhat on cat's condition to begin with, as well as other factors. I have read varying accounts on all sides with respect to what I now understand is a Controversial drug.
     
  20. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Jan 2, 2017
    Up until this year I had 5 kitties and each and every one at some time had a Convenia shot, with no ill affects.
    Almost any antibiotic you give to your kitty will give them diarrhea. Convenia might have gave them loose stool, but not diarrhea.
    I think all of the things mentioned in article you read were for extreme reactions.
     
  21. Brodie's mom

    Brodie's mom New Member

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    Aug 7, 2018
    All I can say about Convenia is - it scares me - and I've been lucky that my cats haven't had any adverse reaction to it but my vet has given it to my cats without my knowledge whenever they've had any medical procedure requiring antibiotics. It is very convenient. I've been very lucky, but a close friend of mine almost lost her cat a few years back and he's now compromised - he is very fragile, does not thrive, and not the same and she feels hopeless because she had no idea he had gotten that shot that almost killed him.
     
  22. Emmy

    Emmy Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    I've heard of vets that do things to pets without even telling, not to speak of asking their humans first. It irks me. Vets that do that must have no appreciation for the close human animal bond some of us have with our pets. Talking to and asking the animal's human should not only be part of vet training, it should be required, just like docs get permission from next of kin. There's no difference as far as I am concerned.

    I'm posting an update about Mabel, whose two weeks of active Convenia was up last Friday, below.
     
  23. Emmy

    Emmy Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    Mabel now seems to be doing better, and I am so proud of and glad for her. Mostly glad for her.

    In all the BG and BM and ups and downs, including a lot of downtime bordering on lethargy, during the past two weeks while Convenia was active in Mabel, one event moved me to call our vet.

    She delivered such a messy stinky pile of diarrhea mix w normal BM that also looked like it could have some blood in it, I called the vet to seek advice. Happened to reach the vets themselves and from our discussion I was able to conclude that a Convenia shot is one factor in the whole picture of the cat's health. I think (not the vet) that the Convenia cephalosporin antibiotic delivered in the 2 week shot can trigger reactions-- in our case blood sugar readings were erratic, Mabel had diarrhea once early, and then an especially dramatic event again a week later, and in between had a lower level of lighter color of squishy stool mixed in with normal. And she had a lot of downtime, like she just wasn't feeling well.

    The diarrhea could have been irritable bowel syndrome flare up. I gave her Fortiflora for it in any case and it has helped. I don't know how much the Convenia cephalosporin antibiotic kills good bacteria that affects digestion and elimination processes but the probiotic seemed to get her back on track.

    My overall general impression of Convenia, in our case: Mabel did have a struggle but was in good enough general systemic health that she got through it. Of course, the Convenia is still in her system and will be for weeks but it's not now actively working against infection in these residual weeks, I understand.

    The only way I could measure the impact on her systemically is another vet visit and bloodwork panel, but not only is that another $200, it's a stressful experience for her at the vet. I'm not planning to do that. I will however watch for decline, of course, and if she has concerning systems, we'll go.

    A general note: After our visit and the Convenia shot I had written my vet an email telling him my concerns about side effects etc, and so, when we did talk on the phone the following week he suggested we could address any future issues with another type of antibiotic. He was helpful and cooperative on phone.

    That probably won't change what the other vet there had happened to tell me, that they use Convenia out there "by the truckload" and "without any problems". That didn't sound good to me having read what Lisa Pierson in her article on Convenia discusses. Two things: It made me wonder whether people even see that there pets have some side effects as long as they aren't dramatic, and register and report problems. And 2, I guess my experience is not going to change anything. Nonetheless, I communicated with my vet, and I'm communicating with you.

    The lesson I learned from this is to try to remind myself before we go see the vet that short of a dire emergency I should take time to ask questions, also do my own research if I'm not satisfied with the answers I'm getting. It's my experience that going to the vet with a sick cat can be very stressful. We want so much to help. Most of us look to our vets for expertise. I guess that doesn't mean we shouldn't also learn as much as we can--I say as much as we can--there are limitations--and then not kick ourselves if we've made a mistake. Of course, I can say that now because Mabel once again made it through. I understand and empathize when we've done the best we could and it wasn't good enough, too. Then it's time to call up all the forgiveness we can find. Wishing all you good humans and beautiful felines well. Emmy, Mabel, Ady (I'll not have internet access again for awhile but hope to get it at least in another week again.)
     

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