Currently using Hill’s m/d

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Little Bit’s Mom, Feb 9, 2020.

  1. Little Bit’s Mom

    Little Bit’s Mom New Member

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    Feb 9, 2020
    Hi there! My baby’s name is Little Bit and we have been navigating his diabetic journey since September (he also has feline asthma... which is the reason I believe he has developed diabetes—oral steroid use which has now been changed to an inhaler). We are currently feeding him Hill’s m/d—please tell me your thoughts on Royal Canin & Purina for glucose stabilization. He also has had urinate crystals in the past. Thank you in advance!
    Love,
    Olivia & Little Bit
     
  2. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    None of the "prescription" foods actually has anything in it that requires a prescription. The entire industry is bogus.

    Most of us feed our diabetic cats foods like Fancy Feast Classics, Friskies pates and 9-Lives ground because they're under 10% carbs, easy to find and affordable. The ingredients are actually better than most of the so-called 'prescription" foods too.

    We've also had a lot of diabetic cats that have had crystal problems and once they were switched to a canned or raw diet with as much extra water added as they'd tolerate (and still be willing to eat it), the crystal problem went away. The solution to pollution is dilution!

    Lots of great information on this website, written by a veterinarian with a special interest in feline nutrition. There are specific pages on Urinary Tract Diseases as well as a food chart that lists lots of available foods and their nutritional breakdown.
     
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  3. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    As Chris mentioned, there is nothing special about the "prescription" diabetic diets other than they are expensive. In fact, the quality of those brands is not particularly good. Usually, the primary ingredient is animal by-products. For what you're spending on M/D, you could be purchasing a human grade pet food that. uses muscle meat versus by-products and is lower in carbohydrates. You could be spending far less by using Fancy Feast which is also lower in carbs and is a better quality food than the diabetic diets.

    (Can you tell we're not fans of the prescription foods?)
     
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  4. Little Bit’s Mom

    Little Bit’s Mom New Member

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    Feb 9, 2020
    Thank you both for your opinions! I am glad to hear Fancy Feast is a favorite in these parts as that’s what I feed my other three kitties who are not diabetic. I researched and learned that way one of the best “normal” wet foods on the market. Glad to hear it is safe for Little Bit to eat, as well! What do you recommend for dry food? He does enjoy his crunchies. :)
     
  5. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    There's really no such thing as a "good" dry food. On the first part of the website I linked above, Dr. Lisa says "the worst canned food is still better than the best dry food".

    When new low carb kibbles came out a few years ago (there are only 2 that are below 10% carbs), she posted this warning about using them.

    Cats are desert creatures and were designed to get their moisture from prey items. A mouse is about 80% water....just like most canned cat foods!

    Another myth we wish would die a speedy death is that dry food cleans teeth. That's like saying if we just ate enough crunchy potato chips, we'd never need to see a dentist!

    Here's a good article titled "6 reasons why dry food does not clean your cat's teeth"

    All that being said, some people use freeze dried foods like Ziwipeak or Stella and Chewy's to give their cats a little "texture" without the carbs found in most kibble.
     
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  6. Little Bit’s Mom

    Little Bit’s Mom New Member

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    Feb 9, 2020
    Thanks so much! I have some research to do Sounds like I need to switch his diet gradually to a new one that will hopefully be easier on my bank account since his inhaler is $380/month.
     
  7. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    Dec 28, 2019
    I agree with Chris and Doctor Lisa. I was feeding what is considered a very good dry food to my Billy (Orijen Cat and Kitten), and it was still over 20% calories from carbs. Even the grain-free dry foods are very high in carbs because they rely on things like peas, beans, potatoes, and tapioca. Billy also has asthma. He had monthly steroid shots when he was younger which contributed to his weight problem. Our current vet suggested half a Zyrtec a day and a rescue inhaler, which cut him back to only 2-3 steroid shots a year. Now, of course, he won't be getting them at all.

    He also used to have urinary crystals. It's important to note that there is more than one type of crystals, but Bill had the ones where increased water intake and some wet food solved the issue. However, if I'd known then what I know now, I wouldn't have fed him any dry food.

    Billy was diagnosed Dec 28th. My fiance brought home this bag of Hill's prescription food, I took one look at the ingredients, and said I wasn't feeding my cat that crap. Seriously, the stuff was made of grains and cheap by-product meal. Just look at the first ingredients: Chicken By-Product Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Pork Fat, Brewers Rice, Wheat Gluten, Powdered Cellulose, Pork Protein Isolate, Chicken Liver Flavor, L-Lysine, Whole Grain Corn. Contrast that with the food I was feeding pre-diabetes: Fresh chicken meat (18%), fresh turkey meat (7%), cage-free eggs (5%), fresh chicken liver (5%), fresh whole flounder (4%), fresh whole herring (4%), fresh turkey liver (4%), fresh chicken heart (4%), fresh turkey heart (4%), fresh chicken necks (4%), chicken (dehydrated, 4%), turkey (dehydrated, 4%), whole mackerel (dehydrated, 4%), whole sardine (dehydrated, 4%), whole herring (dehydrated, 4%), chicken fat (3%), whole red lentils, whole green peas, whole green lentils, whole chickpeas, whole yellow peas, lentil fibre, whole pinto beans, whole navy beans.

    I wasn't about to downgrade his food when he had diabetes. Research led me here, and to Dr. Lisa's awesome food list. We feed Billy mostly Fancy Feast classic pates with the odd Friskies pate thrown in. A month after diagnosis, Billy was in remission.

    Every cat is different. Not all cats will reach remission, though all sugar cats can have a long and healthy life with proper treatment. However, that Hill's w/d pretty much guarantees a cat will not reach remission. Sorry if I come off a bit strong, but I am angry that Hill's even sells that food when research shows diabetic cats need a canned, low carb diet. The Hill's is the opposite of that, and it's cheap food made of fillers that is expensive for no good reason. The folks at Hill's should be ashamed.

    You are in the best place in the world to help your Little Bit. Learn all the things! Read the sticky posts. And when you can, start with this thread, How you can help us help you.
     
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  8. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    Dec 28, 2019
    Anyone in the family have asthma? Of course, I would never suggest anyone do anything like get a human inhaler from their doctor and use it for their cat, as that might not be exactly above board. However, I might mention that I have asthma, and while I don't need to take my rescue inhaler every day, I always get my refills on time.
     
  9. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    Just an FYI....this is an ingredient that's basically a fancy term for sawdust
     
  10. Little Bit’s Mom

    Little Bit’s Mom New Member

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    Feb 9, 2020
    I wish... unfortunately we do not. Hindsight is 20/20—wish i would’ve purchased pet insurance for him! I know they wouldn’t accept him now with pre-existing conditions. I have done some research on feline asthma and ordering inhalers from Canada. It is a bit frightening. I received my first one a week or so ago and had my cousin, who is a pharmacist, look at it and he said it looks like it is legitimate. I just never want to hurt my sweet boy (he is only five), and give him the long happy life he deserves!
     
  11. Little Bit’s Mom

    Little Bit’s Mom New Member

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    Feb 9, 2020
    It is actually a human inhaler! Flovent! His rescue is albuterol which is only about $40. Luckily we haven’t had to use it.
     
  12. Little Bit’s Mom

    Little Bit’s Mom New Member

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    Feb 9, 2020
    Oh, I am so glad I have met someone else with asthma + diabetes to manage! Please give me all of
    Your tips LB was on 5 mg daily of prednisone for about three years. :( And now that we have diabetes on the table, like your baby, rescue injections are no longer useful. LB receives 2 units insulin twice daily and 2 puffs Flovent 220 mcg twice daily.
     
  13. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    Dec 28, 2019
    Honestly, Canada inhalers should be excellent. They have stronger laws than the US does about med quality control. If it saves you money, then it's great. Brand also makes a difference. Is it just Albuterol? For example, a Ventolin Albuterol inhaler is only between $30 to $75 bucks, depending on where you get it but a ProAir albuterol inhaler can cost well over $100.

    Just saw your response. Oh Flovent! That is more expensive. I take that too. That's a steroid inhaler. I've been curious about whether it raised blood sugar levels like other steroids do.
     
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  14. Little Bit’s Mom

    Little Bit’s Mom New Member

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    Feb 9, 2020

    It isn’t supposed to raise blood sugar since it doesn’t go systemic like a pill or injection and stays within the lungs. We have had great success with it and it is much healthier! Thank you for letting me know about Canada’s strict prescription medication regulations. I am about to order our second inhaler since it takes a month to arrive. We have not used the initial one yet, but will in the next couple days. It is less than $110 from Canada including shipping.
     
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  15. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    Dec 28, 2019
    Have you tried Little Bit on Zyrtec? Yes, it's an allergy med, but cats and people with asthma often have allergies that aggravate it. It's worth talking to your vet about. Billy take 1/2 an over the counter people Zyrtec (generic brand) every day, and it does really help.

    As far as the diabetes go, I followed all the recommendations on this site. Low carb wet food diet, many small meals a day, home testing, and adjusting dose down when it was time with the help of experienced members here. Billy is feeling better than he has in months! Yes, he is coughing a bit, but the combo of the Zyrtec and Albuterol has really helped him. If he has enough trouble, I know there's an injection that's not a steroid he can have, but I do not remember the name of it. Maybe one of the other members can tell us what it is.
     
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  16. Little Bit’s Mom

    Little Bit’s Mom New Member

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    Feb 9, 2020
    I have not tried Zyrtec, but I will definitely discuss it with our veterinarian. That is a wonderful tip! We live in Florida which is very humid and not helpful for asthma or allergies. Do you use any flavor of FF pâtés? I read once to steer away from seafood flavors so I only buy poultry/beef for my other 3 kitties.
     
  17. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    Dec 28, 2019
    We feed Billy some fishy flavors, but they are higher in phosphorous, so it is best to limit or avoid them. Do you have a good dehumidifier? Might help a lot, especially in rooms where Little Bit sleeps.
     
  18. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Where are you ordering from? A lot of us are buying our insulin from Marks Marine Pharmacy and I know they carry Flovent too
     
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  19. Little Bit’s Mom

    Little Bit’s Mom New Member

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    Feb 9, 2020
    I do not, but I will get one if it’ll help! We had an air purifier in every room at one point and couldn’t really tell a difference.
     
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  20. Little Bit’s Mom

    Little Bit’s Mom New Member

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    Feb 9, 2020
    I used Northwest Pharmacy. A vet tech who helps us out a lot (will even come to the house when help is needed) is on a Facebook page with vets and techs who have recommended this particular pharmacy the most. It is called Flixotide but still produced by GSK.
     
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  21. SullivansDad

    SullivansDad Member

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    Jan 17, 2020
    If your cat will eat low carb wet food, by all means feed him that, and as others have said: Friskies Pate or Fancy Feast Classics are perfectly fine. With that said, it is not impossible to get a diabetic cat to remission on Hills m/d dry if that is truly the only thing you can get your cat to eat. Our cat eats Hills m/d dry and we're currently tapering his insulin dose down to take him off of it completely soon. We are worried though that his remission might not "stick" as well as it would otherwise, so we're thinking about trying (for a fourth time) to try to convert him to wet food. We know it would be better for him, but we're also afraid to change anything at the moment.

    TLDR: low carb wet food is emphatically better for your cat, but he/she's still gotta eat and it's not impossible to get to remission on the Hill's m/d dry if that's the only thing palatable.
     
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  22. Little Bit’s Mom

    Little Bit’s Mom New Member

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    Feb 9, 2020
    Thank you for that information and I’m glad to hear that he can indeed go into remission while eating Hill’s m/d. May I ask what wet food you are trying to convert your kitty to?
     
  23. SullivansDad

    SullivansDad Member

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    Jan 17, 2020
    We tried Friskies Pate several times before, and he would eat certain flavors for a few days but then start refusing to eat them after a few times (and wouldn't touch them again once he had moved on, no matter how many days/weeks later we offered a new can of that one). If we try wet food again, we'll start with Fancy Feast Classics, per tons of recommendations here as well as from our vet.
     
  24. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Jan 2, 2017
    I have tried and tried but the only way I can get my cat to eat is with kibble, he eats Dr. Esley's. This can be bought at chewy's or amazon, Buddy eats the chicken most of the time. I have seen canned food he would eat but it has too much fat for Buddy. Buddy has chronic pancreatitis and anything with much fat makes him sicker, Dr. Esleys is supposed to be lower in fat and lower in carbs than most dry. I am always on the out look for a canned food that has lower fat & carbs on a dry matter basis, anyone that knows of any canned food like this let me know.
     
  25. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    Dec 28, 2019
    You might look into the Fancy Feast Naturals. Zero carb, very high protein, lower fat. I had to look at the pet store to find them. Important to note, none of our cats would eat the beef flavor of this, not even the feral cats outside.
     
  26. Raycatparent

    Raycatparent New Member

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    Feb 11, 2020
    Our vet has my cats on prescription hills w/d . Lawrence is on the dry food mostly. I bought Purina source one hairball control for him and others to eat. Is this a better dry food for him to eat for his diabetic condition?
     
  27. Callie & Patches

    Callie & Patches Well-Known Member

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    Jun 18, 2016
    Prescription pet food is just a rip off. Most people here find that Fancy feast classic or Friskies pate are great for the cats and our pocketbooks. Read the ingredients on the lables. The prescription food my vet recommended was not something I would ever give my cat. I read somewhere on this forum " the worst canned food is better than the best dry food". Try to slowly transition from the dry to the wet. Try giving cooked chicken as a treat. It might take time, but eventually you can do this. Remember, this is not a sprint. You have plenty of time to make things work.
     
  28. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    NO
     
  29. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    @Raycatparent Perfectly fine to read and comment on other members post.
    But, if you would like recommendations specifically for your cat, you should start your own thread.
    Go to the top right hand corner of the Feline Health (Welcome & Main) forum.
    Click on "Post New Thread" icon in the upper right hand corner.
    Title on the thread should include the words NEW Member, your cat's name, and a question or other info you are seeking.
    Start typing away in the text box.
    Click on "Post Reply" icon at the end of the text box.

    Voila, you have started your own thread!

    p.s. Did you receive the Welcome email when you created your User Id today? Lot's of helpful information in there.
     
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  30. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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