Dealing with HYPO for the 1st time

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Tanya and Ducia, Feb 28, 2017.

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  1. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    We are praying already, Tanya. Keep putting the honey on her gums. Keep us posted. We are all worried. :bighug:
     
  2. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Take the honey with you, you may need to give her more on the way. What was her last test number? Ducia and you are in all our prayers. Please keep us posted.
     
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  3. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    Be sure to call the vet and tell them you are coming in with a cat that is having a hypo event. They will have everything ready when you get there.
     
  4. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    If you can't make the call because you're busy with Ducia, have your husband call them. They will be ready to treat her right away.
     
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  5. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    This is not a honey overdose, her numbers are low, and her symptoms are very worrying.
    Glad you are taking her there now, keep giving honey, on gums.
     
  6. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    Can you test again - it's been a while.

    Thinking of you. :bighug::bighug:
     
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  7. Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

    Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) Well-Known Member

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    I would urge you to get to the vet in any way possible. Give the cab driver an IOU. This is an emergency. She cannot overdose on honey, but she may have come to hate it (?). Does anyone know if it might be possible for the e-tube to have become clogged (with honey)? Is it possible to flush the e tube? Sorry, I don't have any more thoughts. All I know is that in such a serious situation you need professional care (your vet).
    Sending prayers for your kitty.
     
  8. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Wendy, I asked her to retest about 20 minutes ago but she never posted any numbers. I'm guessing she was busy getting ready to leave for the vet's.
     
  9. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    I hope they are on their way now, or already there...
     
  10. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    She might be in route. 18 mins ago she said " car here is 10 " Prayers and more prayers.
     
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  11. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Omg praying for her
     
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  12. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    I just read this whole post and am both sick to my stomach and utterly amazed. You are all wonderful people and I already feel so grateful for all the help I've been given. Tanya, you are receiving so many prayers and good wishes. I hope everything is going okay and we hear from you soon. Lots of love!
     
  13. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Biggest hugs ever to all of you.
     
  14. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    I'm with Caitlin, just read everything and it is scary. I hope they got to the vet in time. Everyone is amazing :bighug:
     
  15. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    DCIN has been in contact with the vet

    No further news at this time
     
  16. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Chris, I am sick to my stomach over this......hope updates will be forthcoming.
     
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  17. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you, Bobbie. SO worried.
     
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  18. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    Same here, I hope we get good news soon.
     
  19. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Sorry, Bobbie. Just logged on now.

    (((((Tanya and Ducia)))))
    Positive thoughts and our prayers are with you...
     
  20. Squeaky and KT (GA)

    Squeaky and KT (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I've not posted as didn't want to muddle posts with just thoughts, prayers and hugs but since we've got a forced lull, HUGS AND HUGS AND THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS....
     
  21. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Jill, there can be some lessons learned here. With a feeding tube in, would that be the best and fastest way for the honey to bring up the BG or the gums?
     
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  22. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Good question for a vet. I would "think" the honey would be absorbed faster from rubbing it on kitty's gums, but I don't know for sure. In a crisis, I'd do both, but that's just me. If kitty is seizing, I know you're supposed to give karo rectally.

    Edited to add: There might be some concern about putting syrup directly down a feeding tube. It might be better to dilute the syrup first, but again, a good question for a vet.
     
  23. billysmom (GA)

    billysmom (GA) Member

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    More prayers.
     
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  24. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    That is what she did, and as someone who has a little experience with a tube, I would think that would be the best way to do it, using warm water to make it flow better. It would be good to get a definitive answer from a vet, for sure.

    My stomach is still churning over this. Good job to everyone that chimed in and worked so hard. Praying we hear good news soon.
     
  25. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    I apologize if this isn't the best place to ask, but what should I have in case I ever need to do anything rectally?
     
  26. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    There are rectal syringes, but most of us have oral ones on hand, and that will do in an emergency. This method is only recommended when the cat is seizing or unresponsive, I believe. Rubbing the syrup on the gums should work in most other situations.
     
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  27. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    A syringe with no needle attached, like a feeding syringe, and Karo/honey/syrup.
     
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  28. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

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    Thank you both.
     
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  29. Judy and Boomer

    Judy and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    Oh I feel really sick over this; I hope Ducia is ok.
     
  30. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    I think we all do. Just hate that helpless feeling.:(
     
  31. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    That is at the point I recommended it rectally.
    That's a good question to ask. And glad that you did. The more information we all get is good information to have. :)
     
  32. Dusty Bones

    Dusty Bones Member

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    Amazing work by everyone, praying for them!
     
  33. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I have a knot in my stomach and have hit refresh about 50 times hoping for a positive update.
     
  34. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

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  35. JillianR

    JillianR Member

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    At this point I can confirm Ducia is still alive and getting medical attention. I'm sorry that I don't have more details.
     
  36. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    THANK you, Jillian. I'm sure we were all imagining the worst. Keep the vines and prayers going, everyone!
     
  37. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Thx so much for this information!
     
  38. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    OMG I'm in tears and my heart is racing! Praying for Ducia and her people!!!
     
  39. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, Jillian! What a relief to know she made it to the vet and is getting the care she needs!
     
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  40. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    The folks at DCIN will update everyone as soon as we know anything and hopefully Tanya will be able to give us some updates too!

    For those of you that have been following along, DCIN is doing a fundraiser to help pay for the mounting bills for Ducia's care (which I'm sure you understand are growing fast with the DKA, tube placement and now this)

    If you'd like to help out, please contact me by PM by clicking on my name and choosing "Start Conversation" and I'll give you the details.

    DCIN always wants to be able to say "yes" when contacted, but they need our support!
     
  41. Andreea&Tilica

    Andreea&Tilica Member

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    Jan 25, 2017
    I read every post yesterday night, it was terrified, I hope that Ducia is ok, now. She has to resist!:bighug:
     
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  42. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    We are going with the idea that "no news is good news"
     
  43. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    Praying really hard that this is true.
     
  44. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Me, too. Praying that little Ducia is okay.
     
  45. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    The latest update from clinic is that Ducia is doing much better. The 2 am test shown BG 409 so they took her off Dextrose drip and were going to take glucose out of her food. Next test is at 4 am. Per nurse Ducia is alert, sits, over all doing good and interested in her food. Thank you all for help during Hypo. We expect a cal from Dr. right after 7 am Pacific. The night shift attending Dr is the one who fit Ducia with ETubes so she knows the case better and more willing to communicate than the admitting Dr. W.Witch who also runs the place and ready to talk every 12 hours only. The techs at the clinic are very attentive to Ducia, I feel she is in good hands. I am so devastated after the yesterday's events!
     
  46. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks so much for the update Tanya. Sending many prayers for continued improvement and lots of ((HUGS)) for you.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  47. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Universe for answering our prayers! I know this had to be one of worst days of your life. I am overjoyed that you got Ducia to the hospital in time. Today, I hope you can relax and recover from yesterday's events . Continued prayers for Ducia.
     
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  48. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Thank you or all your help yesterday. I am just so worried my mind is numb. I have no experience at all and knowing now she went from BG 272 to BG 22 and then up to BG 409 in one day is terrifying.
     
  49. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    Deep breaths, Tanya. Ducia is in good hands. Thank you for updating us. We were all holding our breath. What a relief it is to hear she is eating and responding.:):woot:

    Now you need to try to sleep. This has been an incredibly draining day, I'm sure. You will need your strength. We were all praying so hard and sending FDMB "vines" - which is our term for good vibes. You have a family here to help you going forward, but right now take care of yourself. We'll be here for you tomorrow. And the next day....:bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  50. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    The dose of insulin must have been too much for her. That's why she went so low. You got her to the hospital and that's what she needed. I'm glad she is there and is doing much better. Thank You God. Part of the higher number this morning is that her liver (finally) reacted to the low numbers and spilled glucogen sp? to save her in combination with all the honey and dextrose that you and the doctor's gave her. The doctors will continue to stabilize her. She will need a reduction in the insulin dose. My prayers and continued healing vines go out to Ducia. Thank you, and thank DCIN for helping to save her. :bighug:
     
  51. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    Thank you so much! I wish I had clearer idea as to how long the stabilization takes. Her numbers were such roller coaster I am not sure what to think. She was on Lantus 1unit. Given that Ducia is eating how soon can they establish her proper dosage?
     
  52. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    Cats that have had a symptomatic hypo are often very sensitive to insulin, so it may take a while to get her stabilized and to figure out what the right dose is. You will need to watch her carefully when she comes home and keep monitoring. We will help all we can. Thank goodness you learned to test and were watching over her! You are a wonderful mama bean!
     
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  53. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I'm so so relieved to hear she's alert and ok.

    You are very sure you used the correct syringe and only drew it to the very first line, right?
    This is a u40, I know lantus is u100, but you only drew it to the 1 line, right? IMG_4302.JPG
     
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  54. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Tanya, can you add DKA to your signature too, please?
    The incident yesterday plus the DKA over the weekend was a stress on her body. Keep thinking positive thoughts. Imagine her healthy and eating and playing and purring and snuggling. I would think it would probably take a few days for her body to rest, heal, and normalize. Please keep posting and updating us, so we can hold your hand, and help you, and follow along. We all care about Ducia and you.
     
  55. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    JanetNJ, Hi,
    at this point I cannot be about anything. My husband administered the shot, it's unlikely that he gave her 10units instead of 1 but now he cannot remember either. Unlikely, but the chain of events yesterday looks to me as an overdose but I am not experienced at all and should not make any conclusions. My Ducia has so many other complications to muddy the picture I do not know what to think. I am so relieved she is in capable hands to monitor right now but her latest number was 409. How can they call it "stabilizing"?! It's more of a roller coaster to me. We use the same syringe as in your pic.
     
  56. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    I added post DKA if that's correct, the ketones were at trace amount at the discharge time from the clinic. I'd love nothing more for her tiny tortured body to rest but our clinic stay is extremely limited as we are using DCIN help and unable to pay ourselves.
     
  57. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    Sep 8, 2016
    Being high is much better than being low like last night. They have shorter/quicker acting insulin they can give to bring her numbers down to a more normal number. Really the only place I'd want it used is there. They can hook her back up to the dextrose drip if too low. It's a tricky dance and you will become a pro in no time.
    My cat will go from 290 to over 600 in a matter of 3 hours some days! Their little bodies are part alien I swear!:p
    Please get some rest. Have some comfort in knowing that once she's home you have the option to skip a shot or *edit to add: I'm not sure if the following is recommended for lantus please check with the lantus pros* feed then shoot if you are wary of giving insulin. There's always the option of a low token dose to give just a tiny bit and work your way up. I know she's post DKA and keeping good numbers is important.
    You could also help ease your shot anxiety by drawing up the dose for your husband and you'll know exactly how much she gets. This is more practical for when she is on a dose for a few cycles, which I believe is even more so recommended for lantus because of the way it works.
    Deep breaths. Sending peaceful and relaxing vines your way and healing vines for Ducia.:bighug:
     
  58. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    The u40's in the picture are for vetsulin, not Lantus. Make sure you use the u100's for lantus. They are different amounts.
     
  59. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I wanted to say, don't freak about the 400 reading. She's ok. I was still getting preshot readings in the 300's and 400's two months after diagnosis. You can see at the top of my spreadsheet.... I didn't start home testing until 6 weeks after diagnosis so the top of my spreadsheet is after six weeks of insulin. I wasn't getting preshots in the 200's until 3 months in. She's high because she's bouncing from the hypo.
     
  60. Judy and Boomer

    Judy and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    Thanks so much for the update Tanya! I'm so happy you got Ducia to the vet and she is doing ok!
    I'm sure it's been mentioned previously but there is a forum here specifically for Lantus/Lev users and I would suggest posting there each day. If you could test maybe 15 minutes before you feed or shoot and post in the Lantus forum, we'll be able to help you decide on whether to shoot. Kitties who have had hypos can be very sensitive to insulin so I definitely would not shoot 1 unit.
    I was wondering if you have recently changed Ducia's food? Sometimes a change in food from high carb to low carb is all a kitty needs to get their numbers down.
     
  61. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    I'm so pleased that Ducia is getting the help she needs. It would be very helpful to us if you can tell us for sure which type of syringe you used to give the Lantus yesterday. If you accidentally used a U40 syringe and measured out to the 1 unit mark that would be far too much Lantus. On a U100 syringe, the 1 unit mark is less insulin liquid because the syringes are thinner in the barrel.
     
  62. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    This is what I have
    upload_2017-3-1_5-26-53.jpeg
     
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  63. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry if I keep asking: these are NOT the syringes you used for Vetsulin, correct?
     
  64. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    No, that what was used for 1 unit Lantus shot
     
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  65. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    A-ha, JanetNJ, you lived thru Hypo? What was it like right after?We are planning on bringing Ducia home tonight and I am not sure the Hypo event changed anything in our original plan for home care. We will feed her thru the ETube, if needed but try making her herself and definitely be giving her meds thru the tubes. They can stay there for up to 2 weeks, and there is one med is 10 days.
     
  66. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Tanya, please get some sleep so your body can recover from yesterday too . :bighug: Ducia is in good hands right now and when she comes home tonight you need to be refreshed . You acted promptly yesterday which saved her life. Ducia was a very lucky litte cat yesterday. :cat:

    If you start posting over in the Lantus and Lev forum, we can help you with dosing and other questions about Lantus.
     
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  67. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    Thank you Bobbie and Bubba for that. I think I got how to post now and will be on Lantus and Lev forum. I will try to rest after I spoken with Dr and hear that she is stable. Her Bg 115 last night around 8 pm pacific and BG 409 at 2 am this morning does not sound stable. There is so much to learn about her condition in general, that resting would be wasting of time. I only now beginning to get the big picture of what having complicated diabetes means. Ignorance is not bliss, being ignorant is hell. But thank you for saying that.
     
  68. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    Sep 8, 2016
    They probably meant stable as in she isn't critical condition anymore. Her blood glucose wasn't dropping to dangerous levels anymore. Kind of like humans can be on a ventilator and be considered stable because their vitals are OK.
     
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  69. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    Hi everyone,
    just wanted to post an update and then I'll be joining the Lantus group, I hope to see you all there. Ducia's BG is down to 345, she lays down but turns her head when spoken to, she was interested in her food and ate herself. Important thing she is not critical BG level. Will home care.
     
  70. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    That's great news! So important to be eating, and it sounds like she's feeling better already. She's had a lot happen in the past few days, though-- a DKA alone takes weeks to recover from, and now she has had a hypo, too. Poor little girl.

    See you in Lantus Land! And do try to get some rest for yourself as well as Ducia-- you both need it, I'm sure. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  71. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    My cat never had a symptomatic hypo. The only really low number she ever had was 7/31 she was at 59 (on a pet meter under 68 is too low). I was able to fairly easily get her numbers up with some high carb treats. I never had to do the honey or anything like that. My cat's numbers just ran high for a while. It's not unusual. When you have time, take a look at other people's spreadsheets so you can see the variety of readings people get. You just seemed very concerned about that 400 reading, and I wanted to assure you that it's not unusual for a cat to get those readings before their numbers are regulated.
     
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  72. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, have a look at my cat's spreadsheet. It could scare some people but he's doing fine.
     
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  73. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 26, 2015
    Tanya, thank you for the update on Ducia. I am so glad that she got to the vet's in time and that they were able to help her! You did a wonderful job of dealing with her hypo, you literally saved her life. Please do get some rest - when your system has a shock like that it needs time to recover! You'll need to be rested for Ducia when she comes home tonight. Again, great job!:bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  74. Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

    Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) Well-Known Member

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    So glad to see this update, Tanya. We are sending lots of get-better-soon prayers and L&LL "vines" for Ducia.


    :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  75. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    Thank you everybody so much. I've been helped with the spreadsheet (thank you Chris & China!) so I hope tomorrow I will start putting in GOOD numbers.
    Ducia's BG at the clinic today was like:

    6 AMPR 345
    6 an Lantus 1U
    meds via Etube
    10 am 348
    2pm 325

    She is alert, moving in her cage and actively interested in her food both dry and wet, reacts to the nurse when she talked to her.:)
    There are some not good changes with her body such as bilirubin is up again it means jaundice, right?;
    She is anemic her red blood cell count is 20% but the Dr told me that her body shows signs that it tries to make up for it. The potassium level is down again , we were not successful in getting potassium gel into her orally and its present form is not for tube, the clinic may recommend something for the tubes I hope, her phosphorus is down too, so fishy meals are on the menu. Her ALT is up, but GGT is down.

    Her demeanor, as the nurse put it this afternoon, is the day and night compared to yesterday when checked in. I think she is saying she is ready to fight for it. It is up to us now to provide the best care at home but I must admit that the Hypo event although taught me a lot was a bloody nightmare, and it made me lost my confidence somewhat as to my ability to test BG good when frequently needed. :blackeye: I WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO HELP HER UNLESS I HAD YOU. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR BEING THERE FOR US!

    I wanted to spread the word after I spoke with the doctor that honey isn't right to be given via tubes. It should be watered down but the proportion is not known. The cheaper the honey, the lower quality I mean, the MORE water should be used if etube is fit. It's easier 1 part sugar + 3 part water and start with 2 ml for tube feeding. Per someone advise on the board whose name I didn't get (thank you nameless) I administered 2ml watered honey rectally, that was really good.

    I have tons of questions about her diet. The current advise from clinic is 5.5 ounces of canned (they proposed Critical Nutrition by ProPlan vetrx) for the DAY divided by 4 times. She is at 7lbs, I think it is not enough. Also I wanted to switch her to the Friskie Classic Pate - Ocean White Fish & Tune and Turkey & Giblet that already have at home. Both low carb high protein per Dr.Pierson chart but its from 2012. Any thought?

    The plan is to her stable in BG numbers, restore her strength and stimulate her eating. The Hypo showed again that I misinterpret sighs that she gave me. I will be posting questions about them on the Lantus group forum as they come. Is it how posting works? I read all of the instruction but still figuring out if there is a section for me to post an intro.
     
  76. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I'm very glad that your kitty is improving. It will take her a while to get her strength back. We're here to help you get her diabetes treatment working.
     
  77. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    to help her anemia, are the dr's giving a a shot of vitamin B? If not, ask them to. you can continue giving vitamin b12 at home either as an injectable, or as a supplement on the food, but it's really important as you want that HCT level up. I would think to start the injectable would be better. usually it's administered once a week. on food it would be daily sprinkled on. The b12 helps the body produce red blood cells. 20 is really low and could account for some of the lethargy you have been observing. normal range is over 30. my cat (not my diabetic, but one of my other cats that has kidney disease) was at 29% and the dr. was saying she would recommend b12 injections if it dropped any lower. Fortunately with daily supplements (I just opened a b 12 capsule and sprinkled it on his food) the anemia resolved itself, and in about a month he was at 42%.
     
  78. billysmom (GA)

    billysmom (GA) Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2015
    Another thing about b12 is there's some evidence it helps pancreatitis and it tends to help appetite in kitties. It's probably worth trying and not expensive.
     
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