Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes; Tesla is GA

Dear all,

I am at my whits end and ask for any advice and guidance I can get.... My Tesla after changing to lantus and doing well, having a herpes outbreak and overcoming that.... all in the last month, went to the emergency clinic in the last 24 hours with heavy breathing. After a heart echo they found Dialated cardiomyopathy, he had fluid drawn from around his lungs and is now home and will not eat.

The vet has taken him off insulin due to lack of food and to try to control the heart problem. He is on Enalapril, lasix and Taurine, as well as baby asprin to prevent blood clots. He came home last night after a day of tests and is not sleeping, he just sits in the kitchen wanting to eat but will only drink salt free chicken broth.

My husband and I are desperate as to what to do, we know we need to give the meds a chance but he is miserable it seems without the insulin...

He will need to take all these pills for the rest of his days and when stable they want to re start the insulin. It seems that the lack of insulin and not eating is causing him more distress than the heart problem?

I have barley slept in the last 48 hours and just want to help my baby, and at least give him a chance, he has not given up yet... I have liquidized his food with some broth and will use a syringe today to get some sort of nutrition into him. He ate a little food when he first got home last night maybe two bites but that was it.

If anyone has any advice or has experienced a similar situation please help....
Thankyou

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

I am saddened by Telsa's condition. I recommend that you do assist feed Telsa with a syringe. You might want to joint Yahoo's Fline Assisted Feeding Group.
http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/ ... d-Feeding/

I have syringe fed a couple cats. two for as long as 2 1/2 months.

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

My cat, Ewok, had dilated cardiomyopathy with fluid in the lungs, and she had a thrombolytic event in her rear legs (stroke). In dogs, mostly boxers, with dilated cardio a drug is helping very much for the condition. It's Vetmedin or pimobodan
(http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Conten ... 301&A=2715). Do some research on it and ask your vet about prescribing it. I know of a guinea pig that's also on it.

When Ewok was first diagnosed I had to have fluid drained from her chest a couple times a month. We used lasix and spironolactone, a potassium-sparing diuretic. Eventually the fluid buildup stopped as the medications started working.
Your vet may have stopped the insulin because her potassium is low? I found out from my ER vet that insulin lowers potassium and maybe that's why he stopped the insulin. Just a guess though.

If I can help any further, please let me know. Sending hugs to you.

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

Dear Dale,

Thanks so much for your reply, I feel a glimmer of hope now from your success, we are going to pick up the pimobendian today or tomorrow as soon as it arrives as they had to special order it.
He will be on 1.25mg twice a day... he is drinking a bunch and I called the doctor this morning and she said he needs to drink plenty and if he dosent eat by tonight we can use an appetite stimulant. I am going to go and pick up tuna and anything else I can think of at the store in just a bit to see if I can entice him that way.

As for the insulin, she said that he was off it because he is not eating and that its too risking to give insulin without food.

Can I ask how long it took for your baby to feel better and when the meds kicked in? He had one does last night and one this morning, I am going to syringe feed him and try to get the taurine into him that way too, I managed to get some in the broth but it dosent dissolve well, syringe is probably best.

I am sorry you had to go thru this too but am so glad to hear from someone who got thru it. Thank you sincerely.

I will probably have more questions for you today as they pop into my sleepless mind!
Thanks so much again to you and the other poster regarding feeding support

Ally & Tesla

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

If he isn't eating he may still need insulin...are you testing blood glucose levels at home? I know you have a lot on your plate but if his blood glucose levels are high then he's going to feel like crap and you can get some unnecessary and dangerous complications. Please, make sure you test at home and if he goes higher than 200ish please consider a small dose of insulin. And like Larry said, you need to be syringe feeding so he gets nutrition, otherwise ketones and liver issues may be your next problem (esp. combined with high bgs).

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((ALLY and TESLA)))))))))))))))))))))))))

My Merlyn (GA) had a heart condition-hypertrophic cardiomyopathy-a bit different than Tesla, and he was on many meds as well. He lived for 2.5 years after his diagnosis, so dont give up.

I did the syringe feeding. I was lucky because usually once I started it, he would decide to eat. I pureed his food (wellness canned with a little baby food, and some water) with a stick/immersion blender. That seemed easier for him to lick, and syringe if needed.

I did not have the insulin complications as he was OTJ but agree that he must eat.

Some meds for heart can taste bad and affect the appetite. What i did for Merlyn was cut them all up in advance in the size needed and put them in gel caps so that he would get all his meds in one shot.

Sending lots of cyber hugs and "EAT TESLA EAT" vibes.

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

I have just blended some very low sodium water packed tuna and mixed with water and the taurine and he ate almost two small bowls.... a small victory but a huge one too.
We will still syringe feed him also when my husband gets home in the next two hours and keep the food coming. I have just read about liver problems and complications on the assisted feeding site.

He has not had insulin since Sunday morning his levels were 279 last night after we got home. If we just give him 2 units of his usual 4 units do you think that would be ok?
We have not been home testing as he was well regulated and our vet told us not to. I plan on going to get the supplies this afternoon to do a home test so that I can give insulin today.

I am very aggrevated at us for letting the vet talk us out of it, it obviously works well at home otherwise you would not all be doing it.
It could help to save his life at this point, my gut is telling me to absolutely give him the insulin, especially if it brings his appetite back. I am terrified it will make him worse but also know he needs it.....

After missing 4 doses now Its obvious he feels awful without it...

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

It sounds to me that he needs insulin.

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

I just called the doctor and she said DO NOT give him any insulin at all, she said that the reason he feels so bad is not because of the lack of insulin its the other stuff going on. I dont get it, how could it possibly make him feel any worse? she said it would not hurt him for a few days to let his levels go high?

I am still going to start the home test today and see what his levels are..... and go from there, I will not forgive myself if I could have done something more and dont at least try.

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

I am not a vet, but I think your vet is wrong. Human diabetics can tell you that running higher than usual can make them feel like crap, so why complicate things and add to his general crappiness (highly technical terms lol). Plus the added risk of complications just makes this a no brainer to me.

Further, you've no idea if he was actually well regulated if you weren't hometesting (not your fault), so yes, please do get yourself some supplies and we'll help you if we can.

I would suggest that if you do start giving insulin, you start with a very token dose, like 0.5 units (for example) and see how he responds.

Meanwhile, to add to your list of things to do, please purchase ketostix to monitor his urine for ketones.

Oh...and where do you live? Perhaps one of us lives nearby and can help!!

Jen

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

Thank you Jen, you are absolutely right and I totally agree. I was just reading about the sticks and will pick those up too.

I just want him to be comfortable if nothing else. I am in Myrtle beach South Carolina, by way of England.... originally from the UK.
As soon as my husband gets back I am going to the pharmacy.

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

walmart has the relion micro for cheap and strips are least expensive also. test and post here with the numbers and see what you should start out as dose. you might have mentioned but what insulin are you using??

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

We are using lantus glaragine...

I just called my friends vet office and spoke to a tech and explained the situation with my own vet not wanting to give any insulin. she said that they would be happy to bring him in and give a second opinion. He is so exhausted I think that the drive alone might be too much for him after 3 days of being pulled about and poked and tested.

I am going to test his blood and post here and see about doseage, wait until the morning to see how he does overnight, but if he improves overnight I will take him in tomorrow or a second opinion.

Thanks again everyone.....

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

We have a few people in your area...including a great one up at Virginia Beach named Carolyn...is that a long drive?

oops, never mind, google maps tells me that it is a 6 hour drive!

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

Do the hometesting. It will help in many ways.

When my Sadie(GA) had heart disease it was very hard for me to bring her BGs down, but once her BGs started to come down she felt much better and had more energy. She took the lasix, spiro and enalapril, but also required weekly chest taps to remove fluids. She was already sick when I adopted her, pretty far along so there was not much I could do for her except keep her comfortable, but one thing that made her comfortable was getting her BGs down.

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

Great news.... I just got back from my friends vet office and they have loaned me a gluco meter and all the supplies. I took all of Tesla's paperwork and she agreed that he needed some insulin and that taking it off him was not treating the heart problem, it was two separate issues and that giving even decreased doses was going to help him to feel better. She said that he was critical but with the meds and rest he could still pull through this and have some quality time left.

I have an instructional dvd and we are going to watch it test him and call her with results, but she suspects he will need his full 2 units tonight as he has been without it for 2 days now.... I cant thank everyone enough for your support over this horrific last 12 emotional hours, I now know that we will be doing everything we can for him and will have no regrets or should we shouldnt we? running through our minds.

I will post results and how he gets along before and after doseage tonight....... you are all guardian Angels much love to everyone xxxxx

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

if he is not eating well, I do not think I would give 2 U. I would give .50u and MAYBE if higher a 1 u at the very most and then test,test,test

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

Thank you.... we will test in the next half hour and follow your advice with less, she also advised if he is only eating a little amount then yes give him minimal amount.
We have the kit loan for 7 days and supplies, if he pulls through and we can get him eating fully again she said we can order a meter thru her and go from there.
He just ate a little more tuna and is calm, we will try to get him to eat a little more before shot and also syringe feed him too this evening just to get more nutrients and help to have something in his stomach before his evening meds are given.

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

no need to order meter through vet. much,much cheaper to use the one from walmart. quite a few use that one here. very cost effective as compared to others and you do not need the one specifically for pets. I would say 99% of us use a regular old human meter. relion micro, accucheck,true track, freestyle lite. contour,one touch ultra. maxima ast from hocks.com. the relion and truetrak and maxima ast being the cheapest of all. strips for relion at walmart only, not sure aboyt tue trak and maxima from hocks only other than e-bay

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

We just got a successful blood draw from his paw, ear we got nothing! but the reading was 412.

We are going to give .5 of a unit then syringe feed him in additon to the little pureed food he just had. He has not eaten substantially but given the high reading we think he need to give insulin asap...

Experience and advice much appreciated.... can we give him another half unit in an hour after more food? or just give a half unit and see how he goes tonight,

Thanks everyone

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

just the half unit and test +1 and +3 +5 or +2,4, 6 if you can. this is the number of hours after the shot and then post here for someone to assist you. another shot will not be given until +12 from last shot. we always try to get a right before bed test too cause ya just never know.
ps if ya have treats after the tests, kitty may look forward to tests. there are lo carb treats but I cannot remember what everyone uses. spend time touching and talking sweet things too. ears must learn to bleed

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

Thanks Dian and Wheezer
We did the half and we are getting ready to do the nightly meds which we know will stress him out but it has to be done to help his heart.
After he rests we will check his blood again, he had the shot an hour and a half ago....
Will keep you posted
Thanks again

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

I wanted to thank Lisa and Merlyn we have been blending the food then passing it through a sieve to get it even finer and adding a little water. He is eating/drinking this well. We are trying to feed him every couple of hours to keep food in him.
His BG tonight pre dinner was 203 way down from the scary 412 last night. Thank goodness for this website and all the kind advice, I do not think he would have made it through the night without that insulin.

He slept on the bed with us last night and got up when I got up this morning and came to the kitchen looking for breakfast and gave me a big meow. It was a small miracle. We dont know if it was the heart meds or the insulin that brought this improvement on, but I dont think it was coincidence that he was feeling better post shot!

He is still very weak and we will need to get through a few more days to see if he continues to improve. We are still in a critical stage, but at least we have true hope.
He is telling us still that he wants to fight and try so we will do everything we can for him

Thanks again to all who have gotten us through the last 48 hours words cannot convey how grateful your support has been.

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

wonderful news. this is on 1/2 unit insulin??? get a few spots in and post so we see how he is responding. need to see when his nadir is (lowest point).
you are doing a great job and thank you for putting your trust into a bunch of folks you have never met. people on here are awesome and so,so knowledgeable.

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

No thank you! I have visited this site on and off for 4 years since he was first diagnosed and it was a life saver back then and has always been I had never posted but knew where to go to get true sincere help and support..... Awesome is right...
The ear test is a work in progress! we put a flashlight behind his ear to see the vein! he really liked the warm wash cloth we massaged his paws and ear with! He didnt fight it at all, the paw was not our first choice but we have had better luck that way. We will work on the ears for the next few tests, as I think he will be kind of over the paw thing soon!

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

You do not need the vein.......you want to test the edge of the ear where the tiny little blood vessels are. Don't worry if you hit the vein though.....you'll just get a huge drop of blood. I just put the lancing device along the edge and stick.

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

Congrats on starting home testing. Between that and testing for ketones you will not have to guess at what's going on with Tesla's BGs. If he goes low you gave give him karo syrup and get him to a vet if necessary, but I don't think that's likely.

Giving insulin without testing might be dangerous so that advice from your vet may have been ok. Since you're testing, though, you're in control.

I'm so glad he's eating some for you, I'm sure that will help him feel better.

P.S. Libby (of Libby and Lucy in the Lantus Forum) is in South Carolina.

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

We wanted to thank everyone for the help over this past week, Our Tesla is sadly not doing good and we will be making the heart breaking trip tomorrow, to carry him to rainbow bridge. His little heart has just had enough but he has fought like a champ. Our hearts are breaking into a million pieces. We lost his brother and sister too in the last 8 months and this is the hardest thing to handle but we know he is going to suffer if we dont let him go now.
The insulin and testing this week has made him more comfortable and we think has helped to ease his discomfort while trying to tolerate the heart meds.

We have had four wonderful sugar baby years with him and we would do it all again in a heartbeat. The bond and reward one shares with a diabetic companion is a gift.
Sleep tight sweet Tesla we love you so very much.

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

Wishing your beloved Tesla and peaceful crossing in the morning. This is so sad to read and my heart goes out to you. Will be thinking of you in the morning and saying a prayer for Tesla. I am so sorry.

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

((((((((((((((((((((((((ALLY)))))))))))))))))))))))

Wrapping you in cyber hugs and will be thinking of you in the morning. I am so very sorry. Crossing all paws for a peaceful journey over the Bridge for Tesla.

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

(((((((((((((( Ally ))))))))))))

I'm so sad to read that it is time to say good bye to your friend.

Safe Journey Tesla ! wings_cat

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

(((((Alley and DH))))) May Tesla's final journey be a peaceful one. I too will be thinking of you and Tesla in the morning. Fly free Tesla. wings_cat

 

Re: Desparate for help heart failure & diabetes

i'm so sorry.
fly free dear tesla

 

I am so sorry for your loss.

May all your best memories of Tesla bring you comfort...

...'til you meet again.

 

I believe God places special cats with special people. After having read your and Teslas thread here, I am in tears. Letting go of this special kitty will be hard, but he knows how much you loved him. May God welcome this furbaby to his rainbow bridge heavenly home.

 

Safe journey little one...
j.

 

Thank you all for your comfort and words of kindness. He left us peacefully this morning at 9am. we all had a restful night, he managed to snuggle with us and to give us some loving purrs. It was as if he was saying goodbye and letting us know it was ok. We stayed with him until the end, kissed his sweet head and let him know how much he was loved and that he was safe. His trust in us was amazing and made his crossing bearable.

I do agree that God places special cats with special people too, thank you for those words, we have dealt with lung cancer, kidney failure and blindness in our other two sweeties and as we dont have human kids, I would always tell my husband that it was for a reason. These special needs kittys needed us as much as we needed them. They have all been a gift from God.

Again, sincere thanks, We are so grateful to be able to share our grief with those who understand the love between us and our furry companions.

Much love to everyone xxxxxx
Ally & Thomas

 

Oh I am so sorry! I feel so sad that he is gone and I never knew him, but it was obviously his time to go

Please take care

Jen

 

Allycat I am so very sorry for the loss of your sweet special Tesla. He knew wonderful love and gave it back. It is so hard to let our babies go on without us but when we do help them we give them the greatest gift of love..We take their pain away and it goes right into our heart...I send you prayers and Angels to ease your broken heart..One day we will be together again with our loving fur angels Kath

 

I'm so very sorry for your loss.

 

I am so sorry that Tesla wasn't able to stay with you.

My heart goes out to you - these special kitties form such a bond with us and love and trust us so much. He is now free of pain and won't suffer anymore. He knew such love care at your hands.

My heart goes out to you in your sadness. It's so hard to say goodbye.

Emmy & Dude (& Mittsi too)