Did I catch her in time? Help!

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Jeanne & Dottie, Jan 12, 2016.

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  1. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    I just took Dottie's BG and it read 55! I put a small drop of karo on her gums, then gave her a meal immediately and she ate about half of it. Is this a true emergency? She isn't showing signs of hypo but I had been wrestling with her for an ear stick for about a half hour. Did my fumbling cause her sugar to drop? Should I just watch her close? It's 7:30 am here and my doc doesn't get in till 9:15, (he's always late). She doesn't get another shot till 2pm in the afternoon so I hope I didn't mess her up.
     
  2. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    How long since you gave insulin?
    Which insulin and what dose?

    55 isn't necessarily dangerous, it depends on when you see that during the cycle.
     
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  3. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    If Dottie still has time to go until the peak of the cycle you will need to give food/karo as necessary to make sure she doesn't drop too low.
     
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  4. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Can you let us know ASAP which meter you are using to test Dottie.

    .
     
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  5. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    She doesn't get her next insulin shot till 2 in the afternoon. I put a drop of Karo on her gums, let her eat two pieces of dry food and fed her a half ounce of wet food. (Friskies). She ate about half of the wet food. She's not showing signs of low sugar..is rather perky, in fact. But I need to go to sleep and I'm afraid to do it if she would drop low. I'd rather her numbers be a bit high for her next bloodpoke, than have her crash. It's snowing here and the roads are bad..getting to the vet could be hairy.

    It's a human model meter...made under the CVS brand name. The pharmacist said it's extremely reliable.
     
  6. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Did you give her shot at 2am, and then caught the 55 at 7.30am, ie 5.5 hours later?
    That may be OK depending on the insulin.
    If PZI or Prozinc then Dottie may be at the peak of the cycle, or close to it.
    If Lantus then you may have to monitor her for quite some time to come.

    Do you know when Dottie usually reaches the peak (lowest BG number) of the cycle?
     
  7. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Good question, Mogs!
    .
     
  8. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    It's good news that you're using a human meter.
     
  9. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Which insulin? (Need to know this so we have a better idea of how long it's going to last.)
     
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  10. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    no, no...she gets her shot at 2PM in the afternoon. Right now it's 7:46 AM, and she has about 7 hours before she is to get her next injection. My schedule is a bit wierd. I'm a night person so when I wake up around noon or so, I watch her, then do a blood test, before feeding her to see where she's at..and then she gets fed, and after she's cleaned herself up, I give her the shot.

    Insulin is PZI and her behavior is quite normal at the moment. She doesn't have a reliable cycle yet because she's only been on insulin for a coupla days
     
  11. Ferndoc

    Ferndoc Member

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    Who makes the CVS brand and what model is it. I ask because the first one I got a Walgreens brand true result made by Nipro (who makes other store brand meters) is very inaccurate for cats. It read really low.
     
  12. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    I looked at the box, no brand name visible anywhere, going for the directional guide now.
     
  13. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    If you need to sleep Jeanne then it would be good if you could get Dottie's blood glucose up a bit now, and just sort of 'abort' this insulin cycle.
    Can you get another test?
    Given her BG - and your need to sleep - we need to see that number coming up.
    .
     
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  14. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    That's what I have done. I gave her two bites of dry food, and a half ounce of wet, plus I took literally one drop only of Karo and rubbed it on her gums. She wasn't happy about that..she's still sore from having her teeth pulled, all of them. She ate about half of the wet food. Has 7 hours to go until her next shot.
     
  15. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    OK, that's good. It's shorter acting than Lantus. :)

    Do you know when Dottie usually reaches lowest number of the cycle? How many hours after her shot does she get her lowest BG usually?
    .
     
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  16. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    I was having trouble getting a drop of blood from her when I did her test, and she was stressed, so perhaps she had a low dip from that? Anyway when should I test again?
     
  17. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Oh, poor little love.
    I've sometimes smeared syrup on my cat's mouth so he has to lick it off (but it's quicker acting if rubbed on the gums.)

    Can you get another test, Jeanne?
    .
     
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  18. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    No usual about it. She's just started insulin a couple of days ago. Vet started her on 5 units of PZI, then bumped it up to 7 units over the weekend.
     
  19. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Try it again now, Jeanne.
     
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  20. Ferndoc

    Ferndoc Member

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    Jeanne check the back of the Meter, if you see On Sync it's good; if you see Nipro it's questionable.
     
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  21. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    I'm going to eyeball her for about 15 minutes and then try for another drop. Her fur is so fine around her ears...the drop quickly wicks into her fur.
     
  22. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Crikey!!! I'm sure others have already told you but that is a LOT of insulin....:eek:
    .
     
  23. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Do have vaseline?
    A teensy weensy smear will stop the blood disappearing into the fur.

    Would be good to get a test as soon as you're able, and sooner rather than later...
    .
     
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  24. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    :eek::eek::eek:

    As Liz says, that is a lot. Are you able to stay awake for a while?

    .
     
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  25. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I think it would be safer if you can stay with Dottie right now and keep monitoring her BG.

    You did great catching the low number!!! :)

    .
     
  26. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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  27. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    ok will do. It might take a bit, she's not happy with the blood sticksl.
     
  28. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    Ok I cannot get another sample from her. Her ear is so wet the drops keep wicking into the fur.
    She seems fine but is angry as heck with me. I will watch her closely for an hour or so and then try again. If I keep this up she won't ever let me get near her ears. She looks like a sieve.

    Could the neosporin that is still clinging to her ears dilute the reading somehow? Or would an error show up on the meter?
     
  29. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    And should I clean her ears up, with a wet rag? I swear if she's not allergic to her I'm going to take a creme depilatory to her ears, LOL. Just kidding..but her fine ear fur is a real problem...it acts like a wick to draw away the blood before I...OMG my hubby just announced he's going to go see his doctor for an appointment now and he's pissed I didn't say something comforting to him? REALLY?
     
  30. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Yep, no probs Mogs.
    .
     
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  31. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    Sorry to let that slip. Geeze. Anyway should I clean her ears up to try to get the neosporin off before I try to use a lancet again? thanks for hanging in there with me, guys. I've got to get better at the ear pokes. Would a larger lancet be in order? I can pick them up later when it stops snowing. We're almost at whiteout conditions here now.
     
  32. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    Ok she just ate a bit more. Should I let her eat however much she wants?
     
  33. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the Neosporin will alter the test at all. Could you try her other ear or you can get a sample of blood from the paw pad.
     
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  34. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Let her eat a little bit. You may need to feed her later if her blood glucose drops low.

    It is difficult without knowing what her BG is... She may be fine. She may not be...
    .
     
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  35. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    Never done a paw pad yet. Just learning the ears. I am limited with one hand, not sure I can get a grip on her alone. Let me see if there's a youtube that might give me a visual.
     
  36. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    ...And Jeanne, Dottie will forgive you for this. I promise!
    Tell her that you need to do this test to try to help her. Sometimes they seem to understand.... :rolleyes:
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2016
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  37. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    Since it's her paw do I need to wipe it with alcohol first? Paws are dirty areas
     
  38. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Here's one (with a remarkably calm cat....):

    .
     
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  39. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    Just looked that that one, lol. Ok she's eating again...I would think her sugar would come up by now, right? She's eaten about an ounce of food. As long as she doesn't look woozy maybe I can hold off a bit on the paw?
     
  40. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Info from felinediabetes.com:

    "PAW STICKS:

    You may need to stick with the lancet manually or use a lancet device that gives deeper penetration (e.g., SoftClix with adjustable depth) and larger lancets to get enough blood. Otherwise it shows real promise as an alternate site to give the ears a break. Our cat doesn't even move, like she doesn't even feel the stick.

    First wipe off the large pad on one of the paws with warm water and dry it. Press the lancet device FIRMLY against the pad and release the lancet. Then squeeze the pad to get a blood drop. Continue as described with ear sticks."
    .
     
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  41. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Quite possible.....
    But it would good if we could confirm that....

    How does Dottie seem now? Is she OK?
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2016
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  42. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    I will be so glad when I get good at this :(
     
  43. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    She's really chowing down. Hasn't eaten this good since her before her surgery. So my guess is that she's feeling the low sugar. I'm not diabetic but I'm prediabetic and when I start feeling shaky I eat pretty quick. Do not test myself with a meter...meter is new to me.
     
  44. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure that will happen very soon, Jeanne. :bighug:
    Be kind to yourself. You're doing great!
    .
     
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  45. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Elizabeth, how late is it in the UK? We are ready for the day here, when you need to drop off.

    Jeanne, at this point, how long is it since her last shot? Please tell us in hours, not time as we are all in different time zones. Is that last number you got the 55? How long ago in hours was that?

    My thinking is that 7units of PZI is a large dose and it may take longer than the usual 12 hours to wear off. It is very good she is eating.
     
  46. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    Wow is she ever eating. Should I stop her before she eats so much she swings over the other way?
     
  47. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    Ok her last shot was at....about..18 hours ago, she's finally stopped eating.
     
  48. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I have read not to use alcohol to wipe test sites - apparently it can interfere with the sample.

    To remove excess ointment, try using a dry, folded-up piece of kitchen paper (or loo paper at a pinch) to wipe Dottie's ears. It's good for absorbing the excess ointment.

    .
     
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  49. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    I just got the 55 number about 45 minutes ago..or was it an hour, lemme look at meter
     
  50. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sue! Lovely to see you!
    (It's 1.30pm here in the UK. I can stick around for another half hour maybe before I have to do stuff.)
    .
     
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  51. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    If she has eaten a good bit, just lift the bowl and put it to one side. You don't want a 'scarf and barf' moment. You can give her more in a little while.

    .
     
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  52. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    Wow no, it was almost an hour and 15 minutes ago! The time went by so fast! She's sitting on the edge of the table now, cleaning herself up. Doesn't look distressed at all.
     
  53. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sue and Eliz,

    Glad to see you both here.

    Jeanne - when you try to get the next test - warm the ear a little longer than normal. It might help with blood flow to the capillaries and make it easier to get a sample.

    Will check back later.

    :bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
  54. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    ok I took the dish. Seriously she's eaten more vigorously than she has in three days. I'm kind of glad to see that, she didn't eat much for so long..only about a third what she normally does per day
     
  55. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Jeanne,

    Is that a typo or was Dottie's shot actually 18 hours ago....?
    Can you confirm how many hours since you gave the shot?
    .
     
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  56. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    Yes'm. I'll try to sneak up on her for the paw stick. THANK YOU for your help, my vet will be open in about 30 minutes!
     
  57. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    no typo...he started her out three days ago at 5 unites once a day, then day before yesterday only the second day in, he upped the dose to 7 units, once a day.
     
  58. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Do you think you could get a quick test in while she is deep in her meal? Maybe pick the drier ear, a quick firm poke.

    The 55 was 17 hours after the shot? That is very unusual, even for a high dose. If you can regroup, take a deep breath. Heat up her ear or paw. (Do you have a rice sack to heat it? If not, put some very warm water in a pill box and hold it next to ear.) Discuss this with her and for you, reassuringly. Poke firmly and hang on, milking it if needed.
     
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  59. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    Yup, it's been 18 hours since her last shot. He upped the dose over the weekend. Scared me silly doing that I was afraid I'd end up at the Emergency vet.
     
  60. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    She's done her meal and gone to her little bed. I will try to sneak up and get the paw. If I use a lancet she probably won't know what hit her. Then I can get the drop. Gotta be more blood there than in her ear. Gimme a few.
     
  61. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    ....Is Dottie getting one shot a day, or two shots a day....?
     
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  62. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I am concerned about your vet and frankly, taking his advice now. PZI has to be given twice daily. Giving a large dose once daily means an ongoing pattern of highs and lows, with the insulin taking effect and wearing off. We suggest starting at one unit and slowly increasing. 7 units is very high.
     
  63. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Aha........
    Either very long duration from that big insulin dose (although that seems odd for PZI...), or maybe pancreas waking up......???
    What else would cause that low number @Sue and Oliver (GA) ???
    .
     
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  64. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    I've put her in her bed and covered her up. Will take the sample in a sec...what setting should I use on the lancet..is the paw tough?
     
  65. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    He swears that cats don't go into remission. He's the only game in town, folks. We live in a very rural area...and difficult to travel in bad weather over mountains.
     
  66. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    This is a very small town vet, and I'm not happy with him, actually. He doesn't seem to have any knowledge of nutrition..and I was wondering why he only had me give her insulin once a day. And he wanted me to do the increase when he wasn't in the office for help if I get in trouble. The ER vet in the next town over, (20 miles on roads that aren't plowed in snow time, they close the roads here).. won't even do a quick question over the phone..he insistes you go in and he'll do every test he can think of...that guy's more profit driven than any vet I've ever seen. Not well liked at all in this area.
     
  67. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Elizabeth, I am not sure. It would be unusual. I wonder if the 55 was a good test.

    Jeanne, I hope you will consider our advice. Testing can keep Dottie safe but only with a reasonable dose, given twice daily as the manufacturer (and we) suggest.
     
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  68. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Luckily feline diabetes is a disease you can treat at home, very successfully. Let's get through this morning, let you get some sleep and then start fresh.
     
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  69. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    I will ask my vet when he's in, whether he wants to go to BID. He really pushed the PZI so I don't think he'll change that yet. PZI is long acting, right?
     
  70. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    Ok excuse me I am going to go wash Dottie's food and try to sneak in the test. BRB
     
  71. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, Sue, that is another possibility...
    I'm also wondering whether Dottie may have had dental infection/pain, which has subsided now that her teeth are gone...(and BG lowered as a result of that.... a 'long shot' maybe.....)
    .
     
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  72. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    The PZI is a good, mild, long lasting insulin. It just needs to be given twice a day, in a reasonable amount, as determined by home testing numbers.

    That is a possibility too, Elizabeth.

    We will wait with great anticipation for your test, Jeanne. Best of luck!
     
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  73. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    Egad...I had to ditch the tool and just use the lancet and it's like she has no blood. I thought I had a drop but my meter spit out an error msg. I'm about in tears, doctor should be in in about 15 minutes.
     
  74. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    I can try another paw...her foot felt nice and warm but perhaps with my heating tool....I am using an old Clinidrops bottle..it works nicely to warm. She seems fine, a little annoyed with me actually

    I'm beginning to think I need larger lancets. I'm using a 30
     
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  75. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is probably part of the problem. We suggest 25-27 gauge in the beginning. But you can double poke with the thinner ones. A quick firm second poke in the same spot. And warm it thoroughly for 20-30 seconds. Some people "sing" while doing this. It relaxes the cat and you. There is a song circulating here called the Pokey, Pokey.
     
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  76. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    Ok I got the doctor on the phone. He was alarmed. Said stop all insulin for 24 hours and give him a call tomorrow morning.
     
  77. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    He acted astounded that her sugar was so low. I will keep doing ear sticks but I think I might add some IV fluid to her..although she's been drinking and I've added a little water to her food, even.
     
  78. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    Her highest sugar reading ever was 445 but I'm betting that was stress from her mouth being sore from the stomatitis and bad teeth. It was 300 the first time the vet did bloodwork in his office, and just before the surgery it was 445. Also when she goes to the vet she is SO stressed. We don't get visitors here..if we want to entertain we do it away from home, eat out, etc. So our animals aren't real used to people.
     
  79. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Can you sing us a few bars, Sue..?:p
     
  80. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    Our house has had some unusually high stress in the past year. Next door neighbor's house burnt down. We lost two cats, similar to another poster here..actually we lost one of them almost exactly a year ago to the day. And Dottie's gums were constantly getting inflamed. Then construction on a bridge only about a hundred yards from the house. Chronic stress for about ayear.
     
  81. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I still think there is a chance the test was off, Jeanne.

    There do seem to be lots of factors involved - teeth infection and surgery, possible antibiotics after, too much insulin given only once daily and a change to a lower carb diet (is that right too?). And yes, people report that test taken at the vet can be 100+ points higher than one taken just a few minutes later at home, because of vet stress.

    That is why we like home testing so much.

    Ha, ha. Elizabeth. My voice would scare the cat, not relax her. :nailbiting:
     
  82. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

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    Yes she has been on Clindrops for ten days now. And the surgery was rough...she has a bad time with anesthesia. I really think the vet started the insulin too soon..only one day after her surgery. He swears there is no such thing as a cat going into remission, and also swore to me that a test of 445 showed irreversible diabetes. Like I said, he is the only game in town, a VERY small town vet. And now I'm reading online that a lot of vets don't even understand nutrition and how it affects their sugar levels..that they're brainwashed by the pet food companies and just follow their advice when it comes to feeding. That really scares me.
     
  83. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    THANK YOU SO MUCH for your help. I'd have never made it without you all. Just goes to show how important forums like this can be...especially to a novice. I will keep you updated, and I'm going to go to bed in my recliner next to Dottie and sleep Very Lightly..and offer her food from time to time and just let her settle down. Probably the next time you will hear from me will be in about 5 hours. That would be the time Dottie would 'normally' get her shot.

    Except that she's only been on insulin for 4 days, and even then she was only on 5 units for two of those days. The next few days should be very interesting indeed.

    Oh and yes I was switching to a lower carb diet.

    Thank you again, you are all so wonderful.:bighug: Big hugs to each of you. Dottie needs a break too. I'm going to wash her little ears and reapply the neosporin before I sleep.

    Love you all

    Bye for now.
     
  84. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Jeanne, yes, sadly the vets do not know enough about FD as they usually don't go back and get more education on it since they graduated and a lot of new research in the last few years. And also sadly they do not know enough about feline nutrition and push expensive RX foods that are too high in carbs. They get seduced from the RX food companies.

    I hope you will let @Sue and Oliver (GA) guide you with your ProZinc journey, as she knows her stuff. Once you catch you breath, let us help you get set up with a SS(spread sheet) like the rest of us use which will help the peeps here help you with dosing twice a day and find the right dose for Dottie.
     
  85. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    You and Dottie have a good rest. Please come on before your next shot and let us help. We have a protocol of wet low carb, home testing and carefully dosed insulin shots that will not only keep Dottie safe but will help get her regulated and maybe even remission. We have lots of cats here who go into remission, my kitty included.
     
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  86. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Ack I'm still up. Dottie is resting, and I washed and redressed her ears. Gizmo needed attention so I had to focus on him for a bit. Now I will sleep. Bless you all.
     
  87. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Jeanne,

    I'm glad you found FDMB. Obviously it is always necessary to consult your vet. It's tricky in a situation such as yours where you've got Hobson's choice when it comes to who your vet is. However, you now have additional resources where you can educate yourself about nutrition, diabetes, and insulin treatment. Hopefully that will help you to develop a better working partnership with your vet. Between all of us, you will be able to get this all sorted out. You're not alone with this, OK! :bighug:

    I note that you're trying to get Dottie onto a lower carb food. I suggest that you maybe keep her on her normal food for now until you get a better idea of where her blood glucose is and until you sort out a good, safe dose of insulin for her. Once you sort out the insulin side of things and get some BG test results the food change will be safer and more manageable.

    I also suggest that you start a new thread on Feline Health asking for dosing suggestions before Dottie's next insulin dose is due. (Remember to include insulin type, meter type, and info on previous doses and BG levels in your opening post. We can help you get a spreadsheet going, too, if you'd like some help with that.)

    Hang in there, Jeanne. You're in early days now, but it will get easier - very soon. :bighug::bighug::bighug:



    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2016
  88. Mogmom and Goofus

    Mogmom and Goofus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014
    :cat::cat:
    Jeanne, I going to suggest that you pretty much put all of your vets advice in the closet and shut the door ... FIRMLY. The people on this board have led so many kitties to remission, including my own, since I've been here, just over a year.

    They know what they're talking about and are so willing to help!

    First, if you could write up this info in your signature, it'd save a lot of time for who want to help:

    Kitty's name
    Your name
    Your location
    Date of diagnosis
    Food being fed, brand and type
    Meter used
    Insulin used and current dosage

    With all of this stuff in one place it makes it much easier to answer your questions and to make suggestions. It does sound like you're willing to do whatever is neccesary to help Dottie. :cat:
     
  89. Mogmom and Goofus

    Mogmom and Goofus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014
    Sorry if my message sounds short and abrupt, I'm currently taking a nerve deadening medicine which makes it hard to type.
     
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  90. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    BTW, you did a great job this morning, with various people asking questions and trying to help. You were cool and calm and did the things you needed to help Dottie. This attitude will help you going forward. Listen to our advice, research for yourself, talk to your vet and decide what makes sense for you and for her. We have helped a lot of people help their kitties and we'd be happy to help you.

    The protocol we put together for PZI/ProZinc is in my signature in blue.
     
  91. Melanie and Smokey

    Melanie and Smokey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2010
    <--- Those 5 cats in my avatar. All went into remission. Smokey is the only one that came out, when a large green mass attached her pancreas to her intestines making it hard for it to work properly. Chris remained in remission even while on prednisolone for almost 2 months. Cats do go into remission. I am not surprised your vet doesn't think so because he isn't treating them correctly. Is it possible for you to approach your vet in a suggestive manner? Tell him that the low number scared you and you'd like to give the insulin half as much in 2 doses a day. It is harder on the caregiver, but it is better for the cat. PZI is a good insulin you don't need to look at changing insulin right now, just get that dosing straightened out.

    You did very well following your gut instincts and monitoring Dottie to keep her safe. Even though you couldn't get blood for more BG tests, you were there to monitor how she looked and felt.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2016
  92. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I was very sorry to hear about your losses, Jeanne, and how very hard things have been with you for the past while. Chronic stress is awful. I empathize.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
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  93. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    I'm not familiar with PZI but it seems like a high dose to start with.
     
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  94. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    UPDATE on Dottie:D I am pleased to announce that our furkid is doing WONDERFULLY, thanks to your precious advice this morning. I don't know what we would have done without you.

    Her BG, tested at 6:15pm is 155! After talking to you all, I put her into her little bed next to my recliner, and saw to it that she had food within reach for a short time. Then I took a nap. I also sent hubby to the pharmacy for larger gauge lancets. And it worked! The eenieweenie lancets, size 30, were just too small.

    I'm going to watch her closely through the night. Her respiration rate gives me lots of hints. She's right on target at 29 relaxed breaths a minute. I know this kitty's every wisker and move. She's my lap baby. Our other kitty, Gizmo, is a wild man, and long haired. He fidgets, must get hot if he stays still for long.

    I will add to my signature with the details of Dottie's care. Dunno why I didn't think of that, it's a brilliant way to inform everyone. Thanks for that tip!

    Oh yes...and our vet is very defensive. Very.
     
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  95. LaraB

    LaraB Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Good to hear! It seems like a lot people's vets on this board are very defensive. Our vets are thankfully very open-minded - two of them are a husband and wife who happen to have a diabetic cat of their own, so they know on a personal level the day to day struggles.
     
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  96. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Hurray! That is a lovely number. I am assuming that is 12 hours since her previous shot? If so, I hope you are planning to skip tonight, correct? (We suggest new diabetics not get insulin under 200). Then we would expect tomorrow's number to be high, as it will have been 24 hours since the last shot.

    But I would plan to reduce the dose. The goal is to have two shootable numbers daily. The trick is to figure out how much to reduce. It is so much easier to add a little insulin as your tests indicate. If you will be around tomorrow to test, that will also make a difference.
     
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  97. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Vet says to stop all insulin and see where she goes. I am monitoring food intake very carefully.

    On the subject of vets: Sometimes I feel really bad for them. Veterinary services are not yet as good as our human ones. Instead of a general practitioner and many specialists, most pet owners have to deal with a single guy. And it's absolutely possible to treat a large patient load, and learn everything the vet school either didn't teach you, or to learn all the new information being learned, at the same time.

    A typical vet is only one person, yet we expect them to know everything and keep up to date. It's not like you see on the new tv reality show, Vet School, which is a large teaching hospital here in Corning, NY. (Which is about 100 miles from us, btw). There are no speciailsts here in the boondocks...they're in the human hubs...cities.

    So the average patient has to depend on one overworked guy who may have gone to school 20 years ago, and must now be godlike, and know everything. He's trying to keep up but especially if he has a family, it's hard to maintain a practice without burning out.

    My own take is that's the reason vets depend on the pharmaceutical companies to do their research for them...and those companies have a vested interest in promoting themselves and their products. Painful fact, but true. Not everyone is a good guy, and the bad guys are sprinkled everywhere...the ones who look at their bottom line first, and patient welfare second. The pet food industry is a massive moneymaker, for the most part owned by only a few companies. They have lobbys in Washington and here in the USA, go in the back door to give out favors, and wield sticks against politicians who would see better, more reliable laws concerning the quality of goods in food production for both human and pet consumption, and drugs.

    And these same manufacturers can make or break a vet's reputation. :banghead: They can give him a hard time if he speaks out against food quality. They threaten litigation if a vet doesn't go along with their outlines as to the worthiness of their pet quality foods. This happens with human products too. It's firm unyielding pressure that can take a person's livelihood away in a heartbeat. Perhaps most vets prefer to keep quiet, and be able to make comments privately, rather than fight the machine. Heck, without that mindset we might not even have many vets..

    My vet is a nice guy, but overworked.:arghh: Like I mentioned, he is rural so he has a large patient load spread out over a huge area. He and three other vets in towns that cover a radius of about 80 miles, must handle everything. Half of the other vets do large animal work too, and that means travel time added into their daily time frame. This vet we have, is small animal oriented, specializing in dogs and cats only, so he's in big demand, and since this area used to be factory oriented, it's now a depressed area, with many people on fixed incomes or public assistance. He is very cost conscious, very sensitive to the human conditions within his practice area, and afraid to promote expensive protocols out to many of his patients, because it distresses them so, to not be able to afford the latest care. I'm sure it distresses him greatly to watch their pain.

    Just like human emergency rooms everywhere...the personnel are subject to burnout. :blackeye: So much emotion, and for most, not even insurance to help out...that's painful.

    I think that's why our vet insisted we start with urine tests. He wasn't sure we could afford the initial diabetes protocol. Maybe he was trying to ease us into care without giving us sticker shock.

    What he doesn't know about is, is that we have built up an emergency fund for the cats only. We have always kept multiple kitties, and to have only two now, is quite unusual. So we learned the hard way that if you don't plan for pet emergencies, it can be a lethal consequence for furkids.

    We're stretched tight, but as long as our house doesn't catch fire, or we have a flood, or aliens attack:confused:...we're doing ok. And now we have a group of diabetic cat owners online, who frankly have more experience actually fighting in the trenches, years of dealing with their own pets, than many vets will ever see. I am so glad we found you.
     
  98. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2015
    HI Jeanne! Welcome--
    I was just reading and saw the rough start :eek:
    My guy was on pro zinc for a while and we have switched to lantus….
    Most vets familiar with FD do prefer the longer lasting insulins (lantus/levimer) but it is a 12/12 or 1x a day with levimer schedule for many reasons including safety and home testing is really a helpful tool.
    You did a great job, I just want to encourage you to continue learning about this disease because as the others said vets just do not have much experience with it unless it is a specialty that they pursue. This forum has so many knowledgable and supportive people -
    you have come to the right place…. hang in there and remember a doctor only knows what he/ she is taught (no matter how many years ago)
    good luck hun :)
    By the way check out the lantus/levimer forum and you can see how many remissions DO happen:cat:
     
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  99. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2015
    By the way--when Drevon is dropping he eats like crazy!! other than that it is hard to get him to eat...
     
  100. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    LOL@jayla Your Drevon sounds like Dottie. She was never a big eater. I will check out the lantus/levimer forum. Hearing that remissions happen is wonderful news.
     
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