Disheartened before curve

Hey all, I am on the verge of tears right now. Today has been horrible with testing Pita. I can warm his ear perfectly but the the second I try to poke, he knows. He backs away, growls, swiped at me once. I tried to burrito twice-he backs up/burrows so I can't get his ear or he hisses. I've jabbed myself twice today and had more than enough blood to get my own reading if I wanted. I think last week was beginners luck and he just didn't care because he was getting treats. I am also convinced that I may have legitimately hurt his ears at this point. I am so, so upset and frustrated and I have to do his curve tomorrow! Just not feeling good right now...

 

I don't know what to suggest other than take a break for the evening - no more testing. If he'll let you, why not touch/stroke/tug gently his ears for a few seconds at a time and feed him a treat. Wait 15 - 20 minutes and do it again. Maybe repeat these sessions at intervals through the evening to show him that ears and poking don't always go together. Use treats liberally.

 

Thank you. I'm going out in a couple hours but will try to do that now until I go. Wish me luck

 

Oh Caitlin, I'm so sorry! Are you rotating where you poke? Maybe try, (if you aren't already doing this), top, middle, bottom, front, back, left and right. I have a little flashlight that I use to check for little bruises and then avoid those spots when I can't remember where I am in the rotation of spots. And I definitely second what Kris said - just take a break for a little while, and give love and treats. And if you do decide to curve tomorrow, maybe do every three hours instead of every two hours. I had to do that last time because Sam would get really aggressive if I tested very often. Hang in there! Sending you lots of love!

 

Aw Caitlin, I'm sorry to hear that! Are you still giving treats when you test? Are they special "testing time" treats? I'd make sure you get a flavor of treat that he REALLY likes and only give that when you test...help him see it's good. I also like Kris's suggestion for tonight. Also, are you using neosporin ointment and pressing the ear for a few seconds after the poke? That should help reduce bruising.

Gypsy sometimes growled at me when I tested her, but I think she just didn't like it...but put up with it for the treats.

I'd say wait to decide for sure on the curve tomorrow. If he will let you, I'd do the every 3 hours...over time you can get to the 2 hour but no point making him more upset. And remember the 3 time rule...if you try 3 times and can't get blood, walk away for 15 minutes...let you both calm down and try again. If you're tense and upset he'll know it and react.

For tonight, go out and have a good time! And grab a bottle of wine...some treats for you for tomorrow!

 

Thank you both so much. I do try to test different areas but will have to really switch it up. I'll try to look with my phone flashlight for bruising and avoid that for a bit. I'm going out to dance and drink tonight as a belated birthday celebration, so I will definitely de-stress! Yes, he only gets the treats when I test and i use the neosporin ointment before and after each poke. He hates when I apply that also :/ It is his first curve ever, so if you think every 3 hours is okay I will definitely just do that!

 

Hang in there, Caitlin!
I also agree with Kris, he will learn. Djamila gave a good tip, a light will help see where to prick and when curving, where you pricked a couple hours ago. Like Rachel said make sure to press the ear, after you get the sample, for a few seconds. I normally will gently scratch the base of Maury's ear with my ring finger and pinky while pressing for a few seconds. After a couple pokes on one ear, I use a tiny bit of Triple antibiotic ointment (generic neosporin).

I'm sure there are quite a few kitties who protest the ear pokes but I believe they know we are trying to help them. I think every 3 hours will be okay for the first curve and a little less stressful for both of you

Happy belated birthday!

 

Happy Birthday!!! I hope you have a great night!!!

 

Well, that backfired. I did not get home until 1 hour before his am shoot, and just woke up- 2 hours late I am skipping his am dose since it's already 2 hours after, but will give him the 1.8 tonight as usual. I will call out of work on Tuesday and do the curve then. I'll take the day to rub his ears and give lots of love Thanks for all the support last night everyone and hopefully I'm not a horrible mom now either!

 

Sounds like he doesn't like his ears touched poke or not. Try desensitizing him to touch. Will he let you touch his paws? Some test from the paws.

 

Proper training techniques work with all critters but I know that you have to be patient, persistent and keep emotions in check. All easier said than done. And you need to work with the psychology of the animal ... Unfortunately for us, cats aren't herd animals.

 

Last night was the 'craziest' I've been in a very long time. I'm usually always home or near home on the weekends. Go figure. Is it really OK to wait until next weekend to do the curve? Again, being very literal with the 14ish days...

 

Also, why can't I see Pati's comment? I can only see that Kris replied!

 

I cant see Pati's comment either.

I don't think there's any magic to the 14 days. Maybe try to get a few tests tonight if you can before you need to sleep? Its hard when we have to work all day during the week. You just do the best you can. Celebrating your birthday was important. Did you have a good night?

 

Of course you are not a terrible mom, Caitlin! We have to do something for us to stay well for our fur babies . Whenever you are home, try the desensitization exercise and he will understand ear touching is not a bad thing

 

Aw Caitlin, you're a GREAT mom. Remember that a lot of people would have just given up when they got the diagnosis. And quite frankly...you NEEDED a night out having a good crazy time. We ALL deserve that sometimes.

 

Ditto!!

 

Thank you all so much. I put a ton of pressure on myself in many personal aspects and it seems this is no different. I appreciate the reminders that it is all okay and I just need to keep continuing on. And I did have a wonderful night out so that was good! Ok, my new plan is to do his curve this upcoming weekend. I may up his dose to 2 units on Tuesday night when I can get an extra test on Wednesday am, but I'll check in for that in a day or so. As far as the ears go-I've been doing more rubbing, touching, petting with treats. The odd thing is, he's never had a problem with me touching his ears. It just doesn't bother him, so now he's especially happy with the extra treats. The problem literally comes when I need to hold his ear for the poke. He knows how I hold it-so I will obviously start holding it that way more with no poke and give treats so hopefully he gets used to that as well. I'll also YouTube how to burrito correctly if I need to do it. Oh- what would others have done waking up 2 hours past the shot? Should I possibly have still given him a reduced amount? I just wasn't sure how to go about it. Hope everyone else has had a great weekend!

 

Glad you had a chance to regroup. It's really overwhelming at times.

Re shot times: with ProZinc you can be up to an hour off schedule and keep your next shot time as usual. With a 2 hour delay, you'd want to back track over the next few cycles in maybe 20 - 30 minute increments until you're only an hour off and then go right back to normal schedule.

 

OK, so since I just skipped it, it's good that I have it at his normal time today. Thanks!

 

For what it's worth, I probably would have skipped it too and marked it as a Fur Shot . You're doing great, Caitlin

 

Ugh, he's definitely just defiant when I need to test! He's laying next to me snuggling and I'm basically mauling his ears from all the touching and tugging! He's not even moving.....

 

Followed the three time rule on two different occasions. No blood.

 

He might be picking up on your anticipation. I keep the TV on (I test Maury on the sofa), plop him over my knee and let him settle for a moment, try to focus on the TV while getting test strip out and lancet ready (while holding or rubbing his ear, also to help warm it up), then do the test. This is all in about a minute time frame . Basically, focusing on something else helps me stay calm and doesn't give my physiology much time to alert him lol. You could give it a shot (no pun intended )

 

Lancets are a large enough gauge (26 - 28)? Ear warmed massaged from the base to the tip? It was mentioned elsewhere by someone else that they had more success by poking the inside of the ear than the outside. I've never tried this myself. Some people use a paw pad to test.

 

Caitlin - maybe you and I should have just taken the weekend off. I gave a fur shot this morning, then tonight scratched myself with the needle after I shot him. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to amputate my finger now (I'm kidding!). Take a deep breath and don't stress about the tests. You and Pita will work it out. If you look at the top of Sam's spreadsheet, every time you see a "no" it's a time that I tried to get a test and couldn't. And I mean really tried. Lots of pokes and chasing him around the house with treats. It took me forever to figure out how to do it. You're already doing way better than that! Sending you lots of love!

 

Yeah I may need to change my testing spot. I've been doing it on my bed cuz the lamp has the best light and until now it's been great. I might try some music and move to the floor since it's less squishy. Will probably need to burrito him again for a while.

Yes the lancets are 26 gauge, I always use a rice sock. If I try to poke the inside I need to flip his ear up right? I'd prefer to stick with the ear vs paw. I looked and there's definite bruising where I used to poke, so I'm trying different places around that area now- not sure if that's affecting the outcome as well. If it doesn't go well in the morning, based on his numbers, can I safely give him a dose if I cannot get a reading?

Haha can I take this whole week off?! Oh wow! That sounds horrible but I honestly feel a bit relieved hearing someone else's struggle also! Thank you for your support

 

Mr. Pita is being a PITA! As for tomorrow, odds are his BG will be similar to recent numbers. He's been on this dose (uneventfully) for many cycles so I think you can give it tomorrow AM.

 

What method did you find that got him to accept the testing?

 

Hahaha I didn't name him but he is CERTAINLY living up to it lately! OK, thank you! I had a feeling his usual dose would be fine if I'm unable to read.

 

Hahaha, Pita being a PITA. Hopefully after his AM shot you will be able to get a reading before work to see where he's at

 

I wish I could but I leave about an hour after his shot. I'll hopefully get a +# after his PM shot though!

 

No blood this am.

Djamila, what did you end up doing that worked?

 

Aw Caitlin...I know you're feeling discouraged. It took a bit of time for Gypsy to get used to it...and she was about the sweetest cat ever (she'd do anything for a bit of attention). Maybe try the burrito again? That will help him get used to it maybe.

 

Thanks Rachel. What have you ended up doing that's worked for Gypsy? I need to perfect the burrito and do it on the floor because it didn't work so well this morning

 

Caitlin - I think the biggest thing is just to keep working on relaxing, and trying, and know that it's going to get easier. You've done lots of tests, and this is just a little blip. It will start working again, and it will get easier and easier. This sounds funny, but I honestly think their ears "learn" to bleed. During his OTJ time when I would try to get a test, it was a lot of work to get blood because we weren't doing it very often. Now that he's getting a bunch of test each day, I barely have to poke him at all to get a nice little bead of blood. I think this is one more place where every cat is different, so just figuring out what works for you and Pita. For what it's worth, this is what helps with Sam:

Sam is a little on the feral side, so burritos aren't even an option. He would claw my eyes out before he'd let me confine him. So I had to woo him into cooperating with the process. I made a little felt heart and stuffed it with rice (like the rice sock, but cute ), heat it in the microwave, and then scratch his head and his chin and hold it on whichever ear he gives me. I try to keep it on his ear for closer to 30 seconds, but since he only lets me do it for a few seconds at a time, that whole process takes a couple of minutes. It helps us both be calm by the time I try to do the test because we've had a couple of minutes of scratches and headbutts and kisses.

I don't even get out the treats until the test is done, because if he smells a treat he goes crazy and will bite me instead of letting me test him.

When we were here last time, I used a 26 gauge lancet most of the time - and that was during the summer when it was warmer and easier to bleed anyway. Right now with winter chill, a larger lancet will be your friend.

I put a folded cotton square behind his ear so I could poke without poking myself if I went all the way through - which I did often for awhile.

Then squeezing/massaging his ear to get the blood to bead up.

Also, I would usually start testing probably 30 minutes before I wanted to shoot so that I'd have time to fail, let him go for a few minutes, then bring him back to the testing spot and try again.

I know you're already doing a lot of that, so I don't know if anything in there will be helpful. You've done lots of tests, and it will start working again. Just hang in there, don't stress about missing a few tests, and know that we all love you!

 

Thank you! I hate to say it, but I got the best blood from his upper outer ear but now that's the part that's bruised. I feel badly but I may need to just keep poking the bruised places and hope for the best

 

I sometimes use the bruised areas on Teasel's ears. I don't like to do it but getting a BG number is my goal so I just put on my best "clinical" manner and poke. I apologize to him afterward and give him his treat.

 

Hahaha that's amazing Kris, thank you! I'll play around but if I know I'll get blood, it may just need to happen

 

Their ears do "learn to bleed" I read that a lot here when I was learning how to test. The upper part of his ear bleeds better because that is the sweet spot but you will be able to get blood from below that. Sometimes I still have issues with Maury, away from the sweet spot. Someone mentioned (sorry if it was you, my memory has never been fantastic lol) that they seem to bleed easier when they were relaxed.
Always remember, we are not dancing alone with our kitty's

 

Yep, from what I understand, as you poke more, the ear develops more capillaries, causing it to bleed more easily. Caitlin, I can't recall..did you use a flashlight to see the vein in his ear? That's what I did and it helped me really understand exactly where I needed to aim for all along the upper edge of the ear.

 

I'm wondering how much 'learn to bleed' also means very bruised?! I feel like they're one in the same. Haha I did say Pita didn't give me as hard a time when he was relaxed, but when I do his AM/PMPS, he's awake and ready to eat, so there's not much relaxation going on.

I have used a flashlight but not when I test. I have to use my phone and it's too big/he's too wiggly to do both. I do know where to poke overall though.

I'm trying not to jinx myself but I was able to do his PMPS as well as a +2 just now. He was a bit more defiant for the +2, but I'm hoping for the best again. Played some music and actually just used the rice sock as my backing for the poke since he's more used to the warming. I think they still might hurt him a bit but it's (un)fortunately where I'm getting the most blood, so I hope I'm not causing too much damage if I keep using those spots.

 

I think just make sure you press hard on the spot after the test for a few seconds...that should help to eliminate bruising.

 

Got a +4 and now I'm in bed. But of a struggle but doable! I'm wondering if I should bump him to 2 units tomorrow evening when I can monitor more and am home longer on Wednesday am?

 

He's also been super playful last and tonight. Playing with string, spazzing out and running around... He didn't exactly lose that, but it's been nice to see even with all the testing trouble.

 

Maury too! I told my neighbors it wasn't a child running around lol

 

Well, I think I accidentally scratched his ear instead of a poke, but that's what happens when moves right as I go for it! AMPS was 272. Thoughts on the 2 unit tonight or tomorrow am?

 

Sorry Caitlin! We're all asleep when your AMPS is. I think 1.8 was fine for today.

Looks like you're still getting about the same numbers...good numbers but we still want that nadir to come down some. I'm good with 2 units when you can monitor. Hopefully we'll break through and get some lower cycles soon!

 

I agree with the 1.8 u. I've scratched Teasel's ear occasionally and don't like to do anything that causes him pain or discomfort but I stay focused on the goal - treating his diabetes as well as I can.

 

Yup, I've done that a few times too. Sam has a little tiny notch missing on his left year (you have to look really closely to see it) from the day he decided to jump off the counter just as I poked him - tore a little bit out of his ear that never grew back, poor thing. I cried. He seemed unfazed. Just shook his head and pawed the air for a treat.

 

Hermione also has a notch out of an ear from deciding to shake her head right when I poked it. I felt like the worst cat mom ever but she was more interested in the sudden appearance of blood-spatter wall art than her torn ear, and a moment of pressure stopped the bleeding. She did get some extra treats out of it though!

Now I'm more careful about how I hold her ear so hopefully it won't happen again

I'm usually still awake around your AMPS time, so I'll keep an eye out if you have questions - I'm happy to help where I can!

 

War stories! We all have 'em ...

 

I know, the numbers keep giving me little glimpses of hope, but never go lower. I just gave his first 2 units! Will update +#'s tonight.

I am SO relieved to hear that it's happened to others! Gah, you really do feel horrible when it happens, but I also wanted to scold him saying 'natural consequences!'.

Thank you so much, I appreciate this more than you know. It's scary knowing not many people are awake at that time if I need urgent help.

 

You can also post in the main health forum if it's urgent. Not a lot of ProZinc users there but some very knowledgeable people who can help with a hypo or other crisis!

That's the best thing about this forum, in my opinion. Everyone is always ready to help where they're able

 

sometimes you can find people online on the facebook page and then they can come back over here.

 

I didn't even know there was a Facebook page!

 

Yep! It's a closed group called Feline Diabetes. You can request to join it. Also try posting on Health if you don't get any answers...there may be more people there, though they might also not be able to advise much on Prozinc...but certainly worth a try.

 

Hey guys! I posted over on the Main as well, but WE HAVE HIT GREEN! I did a +5 (later than I wanted unfortunately) and he was at 84. I'm praying he didn't go any lower before I tested. What do I do from here? I can wake up and test whenever. What happens if his AMPS is lower than I'm used to? Above what number is it OK to give the 2 units again, since that seems to have done the trick. Also, I leave at 7 tomorrow am, so I could do a +2 or +3 or both? Yeah, I'm in new, slightly confused territory. Thanks!

 

LOL! I just posted on your Main thread forum suggesting to add it here too.

 

I'm not sure if I should or need to test again at maybe a +8?

 

Maury gave me some low PreShot numbers past 3 nights, not including tonight, I gave him reduced doses. Might not be the best example because he came up a couple hours later. We'll see what our saviours say

I don't think we can delete our threads once we create them. Could probably ask a Moderator to do it, or just ignore it lol

 

First of all.....WOOHOO on the GREEN!!! When do you think his nadir hits? It looks like maybe +6?

When Sam hit green a couple of nights ago, @ShipsCat suggested to mostly keep the regular dose the next day, just a little skinny since after a new low, they are likely to stay flatter the next cycle.

 

Hooray for green!!!

I would definitely get at least one more test in to make sure Pita doesn't keep dropping into hypo territory. ProZinc usually hits nadir at 6-7hrs, but sometimes it can linger. If you can, test at +6 and +7 just to be safe. You don't want him getting too much lower.

As I found out to my shock this morning, a cat can dip into hypo numbers with absolutely NO signs. Hermione was sitting on my lap purring and watching tv for over an hour but when I took her AMPS she was only 55! I use an AT pet meter and hypo range starts at 65

 

Just for more comparison, Maury tends to nadir around +5. When his numbers are not making me want to pull my hair out lol

 

Hermione typically hits nadir at +7. Just goes to show Every Cat Is Different!

As for the morning dose, it depends on the AMPS number but unless it's way lower it's best to not make many dose changes until you have the data to help you know how your cat will react. And don't be surprised to see a higher AMPS, the lower blood sugar can cause the body to panic and release sugar in response - what we call "bouncing." Don't increase the insulin dose to chase a bounce, not only is it ineffective it can be dangerous - when the liver runs out of sugar to dump into the bloodstream if there's still active insulin your cat can crash into a severe hypo.

If your AMPS is much lower you might want to give a little reduction, especially if no one will be home to monitor. There are several eastern North American time zone folks who should be around in the morning to ask if you need

 

And every cat is different every time, too. Last time Sam's nadir was around +3, this time it's closer to +5.5. This whole thing is so complex!

 

Yup! It would be so easy if only our cats would read & follow the manual!

 

Good morning! Well, I was already asleep when I got the +6,+7 suggestion, but I had set my alarm for a +8 and it was at 160. AMPS is now at 408, so yes, definitely a bounce. I'm going to give him a skinny 2 units (I believe that means just a tiny bit less?) and test him at +2 or so before I leave. Fingers crossed he doesn't go too low while I'm at work Thank you everyone! I'm interested to see if this is his good dose number.

 

That red AMPS number is actually really pretty close to your pink PMPS last night - it's within the typical margin of error for test strips. Good call on the skinny 2u, hopefully he follows the previous cycle!

Your +2 test will give you an idea of where he's going in the cycle. If it's a steep drop you can give him a little food or a few medium-carb treats to slow it down.

 

Thank you! How steep would you say to give him food? It does make me a bit nervous about leaving for the day.

 

We don't have a whole lot of data to guide us yet, but I'd say if he drops into mid yellow at +2 you might consider a little snack for him. Not a huge meal, but maybe a spoonful of regular FF or a few medium-carb treats. I keep Temptations treats for my civvies and if Hermione is dropping sharply before I leave for work I give her 2-3 pieces.

Some of the daytime eastern North America crew should be up around your +2 if you need them, I'll likely be sleeping as that's a little past my normal bedtime (which is about now)

 

I just did a +2.5 and it was 296. Is anyone available to let me know if I should give some regular food before I leave in the next 15 minutes or so?! Thank you!

 

Hey Caitlin! One sec, let me look at your SS.

 

Thanks, I'm about to head out so any help would be awesome!

 

He dropped about 100 points, which isn't bad. I think he'll be okay, but if it makes you feel more comfortable, you could give him a small snack.

 

I gave him a bunch of treats when I tested, so I'll just give him a few more. Thank you Rachel!

 

Sounds perfect! I think he'll be good. Congrats on the green!

 

Nice green! You can indicate a fat or skinny dose on your SS by putting an "s" or an "F" in front of the dose number - eg., s2

 

Thanks Kris! Just so I'm clear, skinny means a tiny bit less and fat means a tiny bit more?

 

Yes, you decide what your version of skinny or fat is and try to be as consistent as you can. Example, for a line measured dose, I align the top surface of the plunger with the unit mark. To make a skinny, I rotate the plunger like a screw until a small drop of insulin comes out and the top surface of the plunger is just above (ie., closer to zero) the unit mark.

 

Make

Makes sense, thank you so much!

 

PMPS was 415 so I have a regular dose of 2 units. Will plan to do a +3 and +6

 

Sounds like a good plan! The more data you gather the more educated decisions you can make about dosing.

 

+3 was 254

 

AMPS is at 381. I believe it means he's still bouncing? Not quite sure if I keep with the 2 units to get him adjusted or if it needs to go down a bit/skinny? I didn't see any blue yesterday either, never mind green.

 

Looking at his sheet, I gave his first 2 units with a high pink PMPS and he got to green. Then his next AMPS and PMPS were low reds. This AMPS is a high pink so I'll still do the 2 units. I won't be able to monitor but I think that's a type of positive pattern overall? Oy. Someday I'll be able to look at it and know what dose to given his readings!

 

Good call on giving a skinny 2u since you won't be able to monitor.

The goal is not just to get them into normal numbers but to do it in a controlled fashion so there is minimal (hopefully no) bouncing. When there's a really steep drop (like he had the other day with 2u on a high pink) it's more likely to cause a bounce because the change in blood sugar is so abrupt.

 

It's strange- I understand what you mean but then when I try to figure it out myself later, it's a bit harder. Does that make any sense? Thank you! Glad I gave the skinny also. At this point I'll probably keep him on the 2 units until after I finally do his curve this weekend.

 

I spent a lot of time double-checking my dosage choices with Kris, Sue, Rachel and anyone else who had an insight to share I'll still ask if I'm unsure! It gets easier as you go along, and have more data to consult.

Staying at 2u is a good plan. You had a lovely green, and as he gets more used to the dose hopefully he'll have a smoother, more gentle cycle. You can always make little adjustments by going fat or skinny if he gets a little lower for a PS, although if its substantially lower and you're not going to be able to monitor you might want a larger reduction to be careful.

 

I feel the same way! lol

 

Thank you SO much. I hoped he would even out and show lower blues/higher greens again! So I'll stay at the 2 I feel like I've been doing this for so long and have so much data- then I remember it hasn't even been a month yet

Haha yayyyy, glad it's not just me!

 

Heck, if I had a sugar cat now, I'd be begging for help too! It's always harder when it's our own cat.

 

There's nothing easy about this, Caitlin. It takes tons of data and lots of time experimenting with doses to learn how to read/predict numbers. Even then they can throw curve balls because they're cats.

I'm getting a little better at it but have only been following the FDMB way of doing things since last August. Teasel doesn't help though - he's very unpredictable.

 

+4 was 135. I'm exhausted but should I try to wake up and test again soon?

 

Hmmm...that's kind of up to you Caitlin. It seems like his nadir is often +5...so that gives about an hour to drop around 80 points. He's had a pretty steep drop today, but I don't know how likely it is that he's going to drop that much further in the next hour. Maybe grab another nowish and see if he is dropping much...should give you an idea of where he is likely to go by +5.

 

OK, I'm still awake so I'll actually just do the +5 in about 30 minutes or so. Thank you!

 

Sounds good! After that, you'll probably be fine to get some rest...and just think the weekend is almost here so hopefully you can get some more rest in then!

 

Thanks! Definitely looking forward to the weekend. But I do need to officially do his first Curve this Sunday since last was a bust on my end

 

+5 was 174. Wrong way but still ok. See what tomorrow brings!

 

AMPS was 356, thinking of just another skinny 2 but his pre shots have been pretty consistent since yesterday morning! I just realized I'm doing his curve on Sunday but it's also the time change. How do I make sure this doesn't mess anything up? Do I start a time change myself tonight so it equals out by Sunday? What do I do?!