Diving - intervened to prevent hypo

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Sarah Smith, Apr 28, 2016.

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  1. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Hi all.... Cooter went to the vet today and we switched him over to ProZinc from the vetsulin. Started out on 2 units. His PMPS was over 600, thats as high as the micro goes..... and has been steadily dropping since (we are now at +3). The reading I just got was 94....should I start giving him so carbs to be safe?
     
  2. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I've just posted a shout out on the Prozinc group's board to ask someone with experience of that insulin to come and help you, Sarah. :bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
  3. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    thank you!
     
  4. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    That is a steep drop. The first thing you should do is retest to see if that was a good reading or a bad strip. I think the Pro Zinc folks are a bit short handed right now but I think Robin is around so I'll tag her for you. @Robin&BB - can you help us out here!
     
  5. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Retested...70
     
  6. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the SS now ... hang on a minute...
     
  7. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    hes eating kibble now
     
  8. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    @Robin&BB - Thanks for coming over, Robin; you're a topper! :bighug: (And it's so good to see you back!)


    Mogs
    .
     
  9. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Just saw this.
    He has dropped 506 mg/dL in 4 hours or about dropping 125 mg/dL per hour.

    I would start feeding him to help slow this drop - 2 teaspoons of regular low carb food, then re-check in 20-30 minutes and keep repeating until he stabilizes.

    Dry food takes a while to break down and digest; do you have honey or high carb canned food?

    I can only post every 7 minutes, so I will edit this post, unless enough time has passed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
  10. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Hes acting fine atm.....this really sucks.....
     
  11. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Ok, good! I was ust going to say you should prop him up with a little food now. (Not too much kibble, though.) And then retest in another 20 minutes, please and report that # here.
     
  12. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Yes, this is very sound advice from BJ. Again, please post your # here as soon as you do that retest. Thanks!
     
  13. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Thank you all....Isaw the first drop at plus 1 and didnt have a good feeling....
     
  14. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    :bighug::bighug::bighug:

    Hang in there, Sarah; you're in very good hands.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  15. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Mogs!:) And am so glad you're on top of this too, BJ!;) @BJM (Wow, you're FAST!!!)
     
  16. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    ... and your instincts are very good. :)
     
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  17. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    I'm still mulling this over, but it is entirely conceivable that even that dose of 1.0U is a little high for him. While I know this may sound counter-intuitive to you, Sarah, it is possible - so depending on what we see tonight, may want to reduce tomorrow to 0.75U.
     
  18. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    gave him wet, retest in about 10
     
  19. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    thank you robin... it was 2u, i may have put 1 on the SS by accident, thats what his vetsulin dose was at
     
  20. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Was Cooter on 2 IU during today's vet office curve, Sarah?
     
  21. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    he had his shot of vetsulin at 6am, 1u before i dropped him off at 730. I gave him the 2u of prozinc at just a little after 6pm (central). The nadir isnt for a few more hours on this insulin though from what I read...please tell me I'm mistaken on that!
     
  22. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I get it ... was on 1U Vetsulin, but was started just today on 2U ProZinc. Well, you're still going to want to reduce the dose of ProZinc somewhat tomorrow, as this drop tonight is a clear indicator that the dose is too high for him.
     
  23. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Please limit the dry food, in favor of canned food. It takes too long for dry to have an effect on rapidly dropping numbers. Using 1-2 teaspoons of high carb gravy, or a few drops of Karo syrup is faster - and he is dropping very fast!

    You need to test, feed 1-2 teaspoons of higher carb wet food if still dropping, wait 20- minutes, and repeat until numbers start coming up and you are past the end of the nadir period.

    Put on a pot of coffee; you may be up a while!

    I can only post a new reply every 6-7 minutes.
    I will edit a previous post if there is more to respond before the time period is up.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
  24. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    You're steering with food, so that's going to change things for him. However, you're going to need to keep monitoring him tonight, as BJ noted above.
     
  25. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    64... 20 min after the 70
     
  26. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sarah, do you have a good supply of strips/lancets?
     
  27. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Feed again with higher carb food --- & add the aforementioned gravy or Karo. Test again in 20, please.
     
  28. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    If you can, please update your spreadsheet.
    This is what I think you've reported:
    94 @ +3
    70 @ +3 hours 20 min
    .. 20 minutes
    64 @ +3 hours 40 min

    The nadir for ProZinc is roughly +5 to +7 hours post shot, however, a dose that is too high will keep dropping, sometimes until the next pre-shot test.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
  29. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Sarah, you're doing just GREAT, btw - and don't worry, we'll be staying with you!:bighug:
     
  30. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Everybody here has been through this same type of thing ourselves (so we all know how it feels.) He will respond to the steering you're doing; will just need to stay on top of it.
     
  31. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Bought lancets today thankfully... strips i should have enough...giving him the highest carb food i have in house with maple syrup... its not high carb, but has gravy!!? someone took my high carb for outside kitties
     
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  32. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    I also have some of the glucose gel from walmart if u think thats better
     
  33. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Thank you all so much... this is crazy!
     
  34. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    If you gave the maple syrup with the food, that should work. Will await your next retest. @MrWorfMen's Mom - Linda, can you stay on this thread for awhile, too, just in case my stupid ISP goes wonky? (Since BJ's limits her somewhat, too ...)
     
  35. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    If you can, please update your spreadsheet.
    This is what I think you've reported:
    94 @ +3 hours
    70 @ +3 hours 20 min
    64 @ +3 hours 40 min


    You're doing great; you've slowed the rate of drop already, to about 45 mg/dL per hour.
    Just have to hang in there, keep testing and feeding, and wait for him to start rising up



    And it isn't my ISP that limits me; it is the software for this board. Ever since we were hacked last fall, I get repeated error messages and cannot post again before about 7 minutes are up.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
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  36. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    @Robin&BB I'm here and will be for awhile!
     
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  37. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    That's a relief, as the weather is unsettled here tonight, and that can make my connection blip at some pretty inopportune times.:banghead:
     
  38. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    82 at +4... updated spreadsheet
     
  39. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'd just be worrying about Sarah and Cooter if I didn't hang around! :)
     
  40. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    I also am lurking for a little longer but it looks like Sarah and Cooter are in good hands :bighug:
     
  41. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    94 @ +3 hours
    70 @ +3 hours 20 min
    64 @ +3 hours 40 min
    82 @ +4 hours

    Note that high carb gravy and syrup can wear off quickly. The kibble you gave will last longer, so once it starts kicking in, he'll definitely climb up and stay up.
     
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  42. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    :bighug: Feeling better, his number came up a lil, but i know its the syrup and food...
     
  43. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Ok he's up a bit which is great. Retest again in 20 minutes and post the reading. Deep breathes Sarah. You got this! :)
     
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  44. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Didnt know ProZinc was so much stronger... even his lowest numbers on the vetsulin barely got in the 200's
     
  45. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Sarah, how much time has elapsed since last feeding?
     
  46. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Almost 25 min since the syrup mixture, he ate a can of food + with the injection, that was about 4.5 hours ago
     
  47. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Ok. I think you'll be testing again in about 15 min, right? So we'll see what that # is before we decide if more steering is needed. (But you're still going to need to monitor him closely tonight, regardless ... as they can start dropping again later. Always better to set multiple alarms overnight, if needs be, to make sure he's safe.)
     
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  48. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sarah, it's not that ProZinc is stronger. The vet doubled the dose Cooter was getting of Vetsulin. ProZinc is actually a much "gentler" insulin so what's happening is likely because the 2u is too high a dose for Cooter.
     
  49. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    And I'm curious about this: What time was his last dose of Vetsulin ... and what time was the first ProZinc shot given?
     
  50. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    I should have just started him at 1 and tested, then told her i adjusted his dose... she knows i know him better then her... but his numbers were still so high on 1u of vetsulin, something about 2 nagged me
     
  51. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Vetsulin was just after 6am central... almost 17 hours ago... Prozinc was 6pm just about 5 hours ago
     
  52. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    And that is why we are so cautious raising doses!

    You caught it and he is beginning to stabilize.
    upload_2016-4-28_23-56-49.png
     
  53. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sarah, hindsight is always 20/20! Don't beat yourself up. You expect your vet to know what to advice. Sometimes they make mistakes! The important thing is you are home testing and caught this in time and Cooter will be fine. :)
     
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  54. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    So the doses were given 12 hrs apart. Ok, that's what I wanted to know, thanks.
    And was Cooter's starting dose of Vetsulin based on the glucose # your vet got out of your kitty while at the clinic? Also, does Cooter tend to stress out during a vet visit?
     
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  55. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    God he has to feel crappy after that drop... thats why i asked her to take him off vetsulin, i know this will flatten him out a bit if we get the dose down
     
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  56. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    vetsulin dose was his size and the 510 BG number... his numbers really aren't too elevated at the vet. he hates the ride but loves everyone there. they let him roam around the back a bit
     
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  57. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'm betting that 510 was stress influenced if he doesn't like the car. It would take a little time for the stress glucose to clear.
     
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  58. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sarah your good instincts have proven much more valuable than your vet's advice. Good for you for monitoring and following your gut instincts.
     
  59. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    116 at 4 +20
     
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  60. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Yeah!He's heading in the right direction. That's good news but we are still going to watch him. I'd suggest another reading in 30 minutes as karo will be wearing off but the kibble clicking in.
     
  61. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Another test, please.

    Had to refresh the page.

    He is definitely stabilizing. I'm graphing it in Excel.
    upload_2016-4-29_0-13-42.png
    upload_2016-4-29_0-13-42.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
  62. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    BJM she just tested and he's up to 116. Gads that problem of yours posting must be driving you nuts!
     
  63. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'm popping away for a few minutes to test my little scamp and give her a bedtime snack. Back in a few!
     
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  64. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    I'm here, too, Sarah. (Just been trying to wolf down some dinner. This bean can go hypoglycemic if she doesn't eat - but I'm not diabetic, just a fast metabolism.) Would like to see another test 20 min. from the last one, ok? (Am glad he's rising!)
     
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  65. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    How alert are you feeling? Doing OK?
     
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  66. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    BJM Thank you for charting this, it is definately going to get seen by his vet.. Don't think i'll get any push back on lowering the dose after i tell her his numbers tonight, but just in case. She was very impressed with the spreadsheet Iset up, and was more then happy I had been home testing, even though she originally said it wasnt necessary,,,,had to tell her I wished that was my idea, but i found it here lol.
     
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  67. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Thank you all, REALLY, for walking me through this.... I've read a bunch of these posts and it was a rollercoaster on the other end, had hoped not to be on this side, especially this early in the fight when I'm so clueless...lol. Sorry I'm babbling, been a long day and its keeping me occupied while I watch him
     
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  68. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    The important thing tonight is that he stays in safe #s. Which is why you want to keep rechecking this for a while. And I'd say that if he hasn't risen more after the next test, you'll want to give him just a bit more food. (We don't want to put him in danger of vomiting, so slow & gradual is the best course now that he's up a little above 100.)
     
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  69. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Do you have the HYPO instruction sheet printed off yet? (I posted mine on the refrigerator!;))
     
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  70. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Dont have the hypo sheet printed, have it saved on my phone and tablet on the start screen. I need to print it out though, and stash some high carb where it wont get fed to the wrong cats.... maybe write "Cooter emergency only"on it.....will test again in 10, thats a half hour from last one
     
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  71. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    How to Handle a Hypo

    There are 6 of us checking your spreadsheet, so you're not alone.

    The only 2nd drop would be when the high carb wears off and the ProZinc is still working to drop the glucose.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
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  72. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    definately going to need to get more strips tomorow, almost picked another 50 up today but said, naw I just bought some this weekend
     
  73. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    As part of your hypo kit you should always have an extra container of strips reserved just for use in these sort of cases.
     
  74. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'm Back! :)
     
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  75. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Is there a second drop on prozinc, like the vetsulin?
     
  76. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    When you've seen such a precipitous drop as Cooter has done tonight, regardless of insulin type used - you REALLY want to keep an eye on him. Because you never know if he's going to drop again. (That ol' "better safe than sorry" thing.)
     
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  77. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    And since you won't be going through this exercise again anytime soon (fingers crossed) just swap them out when you replenish your strip supply. That way you never have expired strips in the hypo kit.
     
  78. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    The only 2nd drop would be when the high carb wears off if the ProZinc isn't starting to wear off.

    The spreadsheet has a chat feature - I can respond faster there, just copy and paste into here, so it is not "off board advising" per the guidelines. There is a small black caption icon - click on that.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
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  79. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    107 at 4 + 50...food? Welcome back!
     
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  80. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    You said something about having food with gravy? If so, drain off the gravy and give him a teaspoon or so of that. We don't want to fill him up in case you need to keep boosting him for a bit longer.
     
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  81. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    how do i do that BJM? never used google sheets till now
     
  82. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    just the gravy or a lil syrup?
     
  83. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Just the gravy right now. If we can keep him surfing where he is, we'll be golden!
     
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  84. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    I think you could add a little bit of syrup to that, as he's dropping some again.
     
  85. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    There is a small black caption icon - click on that.
     
  86. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Or not ...:D
     
  87. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Decisions decisions! I bow to you Robin if you think syrup is a good idea! smiley-whacky108.gif You're the ProZinc girl here!
     
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  88. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Hahaha! It's not like I want to get him back up to 500+ (yikes), but I'd rather see him up around 150-ish before I stop hyperventilating ... (of course, this may have something to do with the fact that I live with Bat-Bat:rolleyes:, who I just had to steer here, btw!)
     
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  89. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    took tomorow off since we were changing his insulin...so glad I did! Need to go get some hypo essentials that i will hopefully never need again... put a lil syrup in, just in case... BJM, i dont see the cation box, on my tablet, no computer... will keep lookin for the option
     
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  90. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Me, too ... 'cause you won't get nearly as much sleep tonight as you'd probably thought earlier tonight you'd be getting, huh?:p
     
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  91. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Don't know if i could handle one in home and one online in one day, nerves of steel!
     
  92. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Please test again in about 20 min+, ok?
     
  93. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    upload_2016-4-29_0-55-33.png
    It looks like this, in the upper right above the spreadsheet.
     
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  94. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    I can see you, but dont see anything for a chat...turned comments on if that helps?
     

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  95. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    BJ is one of the best techno-wizards here! (If I was smarter about using my computer @BJM, I would have a really cool animated "wizard" icon attached here. But ... I suck!:()
     
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  96. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Do you see this little box thingy (techy babble:woot:) in the upper right corner? Could that be it? Looks like the text icon on my phone.

    Capture box.PNG
     
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  97. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Can you see the comment I just posted on the spreadsheet? There is a small triangle in the upper right corner of the last cell entered.

    And yes, it is the little caption box with the pointer down to the person which starts the chat feature.
     
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  98. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    "Little boxy thingy" ... hey, that works for me!;)
     
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  99. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    BJM, I can see it so Sarah should be able to. Cool! :cool:
     
  100. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Is that the technical name? Been out of IT too long!
     
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