Dosing help needed

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Case, Jul 19, 2017.

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  1. Case

    Case Member

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    Hi everyone :)

    My cat Sookie was started on 2u prozinc 2x a day a little over a month ago. She seemed fine on it for awhile but I understand the dosing needs can change. When I did a curve the vet thought we needed to increase so we went up to 2.5, which ended up being too much. We went back down to 2 after that and stuck with it for about another week. Turns out she was starting to go too low at with that, dropping really quickly. The vet thought she may have been in remission at this point and said her high pre shot numbers were due to bouncing from midday lows. She recommended I stop insulin for a few days and see how she does on her own. We tried it and she stayed in the 300s. Went back to 1 unit and we've been stuck in the 200-400 range. I went up to 1.5 after a week and we're still stuck.

    So confused as to what's going on. One week 2u was too much and now it seems we're on our way back there. :confused: Was she just sensitive to the insulin after the initial increase, so the 2 looked like too much when it reallly wasn't? Should I be holding the 1.5 dose for a little longer? Maybe the few days without the insulin threw it off. I'm sorry if I don't make sense I feel so jumbled up about it right now. Still trying to figure out how this all works. :bookworm:

    I have the u-40 syringes (no half unit markings) so I don't think I could go up by the usually recommended .25. If someone with experience could take a look at her spreadsheet and give me some advice I'd really appreciate it. I realize we're still really new here and I may just be impatient. I'm worried about her hanging out in the high numbers for too long (No history of ketones though). I have a lot to learn but am so grateful for this site and everyone here. Thanks for your time!
     
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  2. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Hi Case! Sounds like you've had a lot of ups and downs this month!

    Insulin needs do change, so at this point, i wouldn't worry too much about what happened a couple of weeks ago regarding the dose being too much/too little. What hour are you in your cycle today? If you haven't passed +7 yet, could you grab a mid-cycle so we can get a peek as to what's going on in the middle at this dose? It looks like you need to increase, but I want to be sure first.
     
  3. Case

    Case Member

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    Hi Djamila, thanks for the response! Yup lots of ups and downs so far, hard to keep up lol. +7 for us would be in about a half hour but unfortunately I'll be stuck at work until at least her +9. I try to get the mid cycles when I can which isn't super often, but at least always on the weekends. I know that's not super helpful!
     
  4. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Could try 1.75 a couple of days see what it does and if it's not enough go to 2.
     
  5. Case

    Case Member

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    Thanks Janet, I would try the 1.75 just don't know how to measure it in the u-40 syringes. I've been thinking about getting the u-100 but my vet said to never use them. I'm sure she doesn't want me to mess up the dose (which is smart) even though I know about the comparison chart here. In my state I need a prescription and I highly doubt she will give it to me for the u-100.

    If I do change the dose how long do you advise holding it if the numbers aren't going down enough?
     
  6. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Suki doesn't drop enough so I think a slightly higher dose would be needed.
    I couldn't see any evidence of Suki going into remission and stopping insulin for few days did not help, it slowed down her dropping down a little.
     
  7. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    One thing you might try is taking a U-40 syringe, and playing with some colored water (or plain water works too - just easier to see if it has some food coloring). I found that on my syringes, using the top or bottom of the black stopper, I could pretty consistently figure out what to call .25, .5, and .75. It just took a little experimenting. And as long as you're consistent in how you draw it, that's the important thing more than if it's precisely .25u Does that make sense?
     
  8. Case

    Case Member

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    Thanks Marlena! I should've mentioned that Sookie had been throwing up a lot before she went low on the 2u. The vet thought she was vomiting from going too low during the cycle and was thinking it was because of the somogyi effect. So she believed she was producing her own insulin and therefore causing her major drops. I'll admit I thought it was a little too good to be true that she may not need insulin, but I trust my vet and wanted to follow her instructions. Now I'm starting to see how complicated this all is.
     
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  9. Case

    Case Member

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    Makes perfect sense, I think I'll try that. I'm imagining that just under the 1u line would be 1.25 or just above the 2 line would be 1.75. I'm still getting used to the measuring, I have to triple check when doing the half units that's it's really in the middle of the unit markings.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  10. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Any data you can get is super helpful, Case! Get mid cycles when you can...and you've been doing great at getting some before bed tests which is very helpful! Just do what you can and it'll help us to help you! :)
     
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  11. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Ah work! This would all be so much easier if none of us had to work! :rolleyes::smuggrin: Like Rachel said, you just do the best you can. You have been doing great on the before beds!
     
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  12. Case

    Case Member

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    Thanks Rachel and Djamila! I will keep up with the testing. I'm so lucky Sookie's gotten used to it already, wasn't sure if she ever would :D

    This weekend when I'm home I'll raise her dose by what looks like .25 and go from there. I know she shouldn't drop too fast or too low but what numbers should I be aiming for her nadir?
     
  13. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    High double digits or low 100s are nice. :)
     
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  14. Case

    Case Member

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    Got it. So if we start getting those good numbers, and it's not a fast drop, I would hold that dose for as long as needed and presumably her pre shot numbers would also start going down? Just trying to figure out how this works..
     
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  15. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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  16. Case

    Case Member

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    Thanks Yong, those look much easier to use. And at less than half of what my vet charges sounds good to me haha
     
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  17. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    That would work. However, cats often have their own ideas about all this and they don't tell us what they are. :confused:
     
  18. Case

    Case Member

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    Yeah, I'm sure I'm in for a few surprises during this journey. Thanks to all of you for helping me begin to figure this out.
     
  19. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Case, it can be really complicated unfortunately but if we keep reminding ourselves that ECID (every cat is different) and every cycle is different and that we still don't understand fully how body works maybe it will be easier to accept the difficulty and lack of total control. When diabetic people have a permanent blood glucose monitor attached they see how much (it is really ridiculous) glucose level fluctuate every day for no apparent reason! I have been doing doing this sugar dance for 3 years now and I still get very upset and frustrated when things go funny. But you might be lucky and your kitty might recover with your help so keep being positive because you're doing such a good job! We will be here for you when you need some guidance.
    Case, Sookie could have been throwing up for some reason and that itself could have caused her to go too low.
     
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  20. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Case, it's looking good today. Fingers crossed. I'll keep checking Sookie's SS.
    Sending hugs.
     
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  21. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    When kitty drops to nadir you want this number not lower than 50% of the preshot number so if preshot is 200 you are aiming for no lower than 100 at nadir, these are safe drops. If kitty drops much more it will cause rebound (the cat is not used to lower numbers), this is a normal, natural process and a protective mechanism. We need to go slowly with this as big drops and high bouncing numbers are bad for kitty.
     
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  22. Case

    Case Member

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    I'm glad you said that because that's exactly what I thought at first too! Have to trust myself more with this. Its interesting how the numbers change so much, I didn't expect that. It's very easy to get a little number obsessed but I realize I'm going to have to be much more patient and look at the overall patterns. Also need to accept the lack of total control like you said, thats very true for me, I so just want to "fix it" for her.

    Good to know and makes sense, I've been reading a little about bouncing on here. Thank you for clarifying and especially thanks for the help and support! :)
     
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  23. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Looking ok darling, if you can try to test during the day at +6 maybe. See what happens tonight.
    Keeping my fingers crosse, Rocky sends purrs as well.:cat:
     
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  24. Case

    Case Member

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    I will try for the +6, hopefully I can get out of work a little early today. Tomorrow I will probably try 1.75 when I can be around all day.

    Many thanks to you and Rocky :smuggrin:
     
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  25. Case

    Case Member

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    Got out early!! :D
    285 @ +6 definitely going to increase starting tomorrow.
     
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  26. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I think it is a good move as you tried 1.5 for few cycles and it looks like he needs a little more.
    Good luck:cat:
     
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  27. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Ok, you are having just pink numbers last 2 days, no reds so far. Let's keep this dose for few more cycles to see what occurs.
     
  28. Case

    Case Member

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    Will do, hopefully we don't see any more reds. Is it weird that with the higher dose her numbers aren't going down as much through the cycle?
     
  29. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    No, it is normal. It takes time to regulate and you will see strange numbers for some time until we can have a good picture how Sookie reacts to insulin.
    I had the same with Rocky. It is better to do it slowly and just watch the numbers going down ever so slightly because if you have a big drop you will also see a rebound and it is not good for kitty. I think if you still have mostly pink numbers for next few cycles we can think about going to 2 units but I would be cautious with this as yet.
    Just be patient and it will fall in place nicely if we are sensible.
     
  30. Case

    Case Member

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    Ok that sounds like a good plan to stick with. I can be patient, glad to hear it's a normal reaction. :)

    Wow Rocky's spreadsheet looks awesome, happy he seems to be doing so well! :woot:
     
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  31. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Case, what if we try 2u from tomorrow morning if he is still in pink numbers and is eating ok and you can keep an eye?
    Could you please tell me how you feed Sookie? What food and how many times a day? We need to see the numbers without food influence so no food at least 2 hours before AM and PM tests and only snacks during the day.
     
  32. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry darling, I saw feeding in your signature. And Sookie is a girl of course, I apologise, I'm tired most of the time and my brain is a bit redundant. I also realised you use FF lite test strips, this is what I do and when I did comparison to ATr they read rather similar if only slightly higher on higher numbers so your 360 with FF might be 396 on ATr so I feel more confident that your 2 unit would be a good dose.
    Marlena:cat::)
     
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  33. Case

    Case Member

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    I just started free feeding 1/2 cup Young Again during the day because I'm typically not home. Usually no food 2 hours pre shot test but the other night I forgot to pick it up :facepalm: I have 3 cats altogether so I'm still trying to figure the food situation and how much to leave out while I'm gone. The other day they all ate too much and wouldn't eat their wet food. We'll figure it out, everything is still so new for them. Yes Sookie is a girl and no need to apologize :joyful:

    I don't like to change her dose when I'm not home but like I said I'm leaving food out for her and we've had pretty good luck with the 2u except once it brought her too low. I think that was a fluke anyways because of her not eating well that day. Otherwise she has a great appetite and probably eats too much (she used to be very fat). I agree I think it's safe to try it again. I appreciate the advice :)
     
  34. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    It can be scary to go back to a dose that gave you a lime green before but sometimes we end up back to that dose or higher. The steps in the sugar dance don't always make sense :smuggrin:
     
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  35. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Case, yesterday numbers look pretty normal to me.
    You are doing great.
    Sending hugs,
    Marlena and Rocky:)
     
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  36. Case

    Case Member

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    Thank you! We're getting there.. slowly but surely :rolleyes:
     
  37. Case

    Case Member

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    So Sookie's numbers are finally starting to come down during the day, which I'm so happy to see some blues! She was 380 at am pre shot and went all the way down to 94 at +6. I'm just wondering if that is too much of a drop. Should I decrease her dose slightly or is this ok and what we want?
     
  38. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    That's more than a 50% drop but it's a nice number. Be prepared for possible higher than usual bounce numbers after this. Try for a +2 this evening to see where she's headed. She had similar results on the same dose on 24 June.
     
  39. Case

    Case Member

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    Ok thanks, I won't be discouraged by any high numbers tonight. I can get the +2, so I should keep the dose at 2.5 and see where it goes?
     
  40. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, keep it for now.
     
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  41. Case

    Case Member

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    Well she certainly bounced back up, all the way to 411 pmps. Will stick with 2.5, thank you!!
     
  42. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    That's actually not a terrible bounce from her 380 AMPS :woot:. Looking like a nice dose ;)
     
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  43. Case

    Case Member

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    I totally didn't even think to look back to the amps, thanks for pointing that out. :) I'm so excited to make some progress!
     
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  44. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    We sometimes forget to look at BGs in the context of the whole picture. Looking only at individual numbers can lead to wrong conclusions, poor dosing decisions, etc.
     
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  45. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    No worries, it's something I had to train myself to do :smuggrin:
     
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  46. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Case, that green number would produce some higher numbers for about 3 days. After that bouncing should stop. If you continue with the same dose for few more days we would be able to see how Sookie is doing and take it from there.
    Good luck.
     
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  47. Case

    Case Member

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    I noticed this was starting to happen because yesterday she had all pink numbers and a red this morning. Kris & Teasel warned me about that happening as well. We will continue the dose for now, hopefully the bouncing will calm down and we can get some more blues and greens. :cool:;)
     
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  48. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Sookie heard about this trampoline kitties like to bounce on sometimes and she wanted to try :p
     
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  49. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Case, I would like to give you some information so you can try to get your head around it as you have to make decisions what to do on daily basis.
    I can see something happening on 2 occasions: 1st of July and again and 5th of August. It looks to me like a classic Somogyi phenomenon: you observe a steep drop in BG and straight after that BG goes up and up so you started with a pink number, sharp drop was a green number and then you have a red number pm. For many days after that you see that numbers are not moving much away from pink which looks a little like insulin resistance. This is all normal reaction to a steep drop in blood sugar level. This can last for 3 days (usually) or a bit longer. In a situation like that you don't increase the dose. If you increase the dose and the numbers go up you don't increase further, it is a classic mistake some vets make and poor kitties end up on ever increasing doses and are in danger of hypo. Usually it is a good idea to decrease the dose a little. If you decrease the dose and you get lower numbers - bingo! But if you decrease and the numbers go up it means that kitty needs more insulin.
    But it is not as simple as that because what we observe might not be what we think is so we have to try things out and see how they work. Sometimes you just need more insulin to break that cycle of pink numbers.
    I hope I did not confuse you too much, my brain is still a bit sleepy and writing in coherent manner seems a bit difficult for me at the moment.
    Right now I would stick with a dose of 2.5 or reduce to 2.25 . Watch out those pinks when you give 2.5 as you might end up with hypo so maybe do not give 2.5 on a pink number.
    I'm just curious now how Sookie is going to behave after getting that beautiful BG of 94.
    It really is a good idea to read about Somogyi effect (phenomenon) and understand what it is (nobody really knows for sure it is happening as more research is being done) and I'm hoping that we get better information about it soon.
    But for now it looks like your kitty is going to bounce on a little trampoline but we will get her well and even soon I hope.
    Sending hugs,
    Marlena and Rocky:bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  50. Case

    Case Member

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    Thank you for the info Marlena, don't worry you're not confusing me too much. :) I did notice the pattern you're seeing as well. I read about Somogyi, but it's different being aware of it and actually seeing it's application in real life if that makes sense. I'm going to do some more research on it. I have been reading a few posts on here too and see that bouncing is pretty common, I was only hoping Sookie would avoid the trampoline because I can see how complicated it makes things.

    So when this happens you're saying to decrease the dose slightly? Just want to make sure I understand. I thought I was supposed to hold the dose until the bounce clears. This morning her amps was 357 so I gave her 2.25. I worry about her going hypo while I'm at work during the day.

    This is the part I don't totally get. If we decrease the dose and the numbers go up, how do we know she's not still bouncing? Is it just a matter of waiting a few days and seeing if the numbers go down? I'm trying to figure out when we need to back off on a dose or when she needs more. I'm guessing it's like you say, simply trying different things and seeing how they work. I just worry so much about making a mistake and hurting her, it's scary to me to have the responsibility of her life in my hands. I know its not an exact science and I appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me.
     
  51. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Case, I think decreasing the dose slightly would be good if what you get is a light green number as you are in the hypo territory. If the nadir is dark green sticking with the same dose is probably going to be ok but bear in mind that kitty will bounce if the nadir is 50% lower than the preshot number. What we need to understand is that we don't want bounces if we can help it, we want to slowly get kitty in better numbers so if your preshot is 300 you want your nadir to be above 150 and you need to give your cat time to adjust to lower numbers. The main thing here is to really act reasonably (meaning we have to lower the dose) if we suspect Somogyi so if you have a nadir in hypo range and then you have a high number pretty quickly and it is higher than preshot number at the beginning of the cycle.
    Regarding decreasing the dose, yes, you need to wait few days and observe.
     
  52. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    I know, this worry is terrible, I went through this and actually I still am at loss what to do and question myself all the time despite the fact that I have been doing this for 3 years now! Try to keep your Sookie safe by testing her as much as you can, observe how she eats, what she's like in herself etc. Any problems - report to the vet and here as well. Be prepared for hypo - don't panic, just feed and test in a calm manner. Post here for help.
    Sometimes it is very difficult to figure out what's happening with kitty's BG as various things can interfere with glucose levels and you can do everything right and still get weird and unpredictable numbers. I'm in a situation like that at the moment. Although Rocky is still in blue numbers area but he gives me lots of higher numbers which are unusual for him and I'm so worried but without giving me more clear symptoms (he doesn't feel very well but nothing jumps out) and without further testing at the vets (he had tests done not so long ago) I really can not tell what bothers him. That makes me so upset and frustrated!
    Case, it is quite a challenge but please remember that you are doing best you can to help your kitty have healthier longer life and once you start seeing results of your dedication you will feel so much better. I do know very well how you feel and so many members went through the same. I went through few almost nervous breakdowns. These little furry creatures mean so much to us.
     
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  53. Case

    Case Member

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    Ok this really clears it up for me, thank you! I definitely don't want her to bounce around and while I was glad to see a dark green number, I had a feeling it went down too fast/too much. I feel much better about what to do moving forward. We can take it slow and allow her body to adjust to the lower numbers as you said, hopefully without going too low or setting off a bounce.

    It's reassuring to hear I'm not the only one! It's so true isn't it? I mean we're all here because we love our cats so much! I will do my best to take care of her however I can and I honestly feel this dedication to our kitties makes us all better people. I look up to the people on this board who help so many others with knowledge and understanding that we're not alone in this because it is so devastating at first. I think the worry is something we all deal with (and I will probably always have) because like you said, they mean so much to us! I'm sorry about your situation with Rocky, sometimes the worst thing is not knowing what's going on and I can absolutely understand the frustration! I hope its nothing too serious and I really hope he starts feeling better soon!! Hugs to you both :bighug:
     
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  54. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Case, thank you.
    Rest assured that we all are in the same boat - we deeply care about our furry children. It is very stressful but so rewarding when you start seeing results.
    I'm so happy that I can help you and your kitty. I have received so much help from others when I joint the group, now I can pay it back!
    I'm myself in a bit of a state now as Rocky is not quite right and I don't know what to do. It is so difficult now when he is mostly in the right range of BG but he is higher than he should be and I haven't got a clue why. It would probably be easier to see a pattern when you first start using insulin and you get all these colours but when kitty is on a low dose and in blues I don't know if higher numbers are bounces or he, for some reason needs more insulin. I have tried a few times to ask other members to give me their opinion on this but unfortunately there was no opinion so I'm guessing nobody really knows. The vet keep saying that this might be an "over swing" by which I think she means Somogyi but I have no evidence of that. In the meantime Rocky is giving me hell (meowing constantly) and I'm loosing the will to live!
    Sorry about my rant but I really am struggling.
    I'm happy to help you making decisions as it helps to take my mind of things at home.
     
  55. Case

    Case Member

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    Aww poor Rocky! I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time, Marlena. :( I'm sure he just wants you to know he's not well in some way. Its so difficult when they don't feel well and you just want to help them but you don't know how because they can't simply tell us what's wrong. And cats are usually so good at hiding it. So frustrating that the vet can't help you more. :arghh: The numbers are such a mystery to me and I don't think too many vets understand it either. Especially since he is so far along his journey and doesn't need a lot of insulin. We all need to rant once in awhile, no need to apologize for it! I wish I had answers or advice for you but the best I can say is don't give up! Sometimes all it takes is time and the answer will come to you. I know its easy for me to say, but I really do feel for you! Don't be too hard on yourself, you obviously take great care of him and what an accomplishment to come so far with his diabetes. Just the fact that you know something's up with him when the vet and tests may say otherwise, speaks volumes of your relationship together, and that's something to be grateful for! Sending you both lots of love!!
     
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  56. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Case, apologies for hijacking your thread for a moment. Marlena, I'm so sorry things are hard right now! I wonder if you might be able to load your recent blood panel information (along with any previous labs) in the Labs tab of your spreadsheet so some of the lab experts could take a look and see if they notice anything. If you're interested in having someone take a look at the labs, and need help getting the Labs tab added into your spreadsheet, just ask and we can tag someone for you to get that fixed.

    Also, I know it seems crazy, but I think my kitty does show some signs of neuropathy even just in the 9-11 range (higher 100's). I saw the note on your spreadsheet about that, so hopefully if that's the case for Rocky, then the B12 will help a bit. As for the crying, has he been checked for thyroid issues and blood pressure? Both can sometimes cause excessive vocalizing and may impact BG.

    Regardless of the cause of the rise, it does look like a little bump up in dose might help. Just a few thoughts. I know there is nothing definitive, but I think that's the nature of it when numbers start changing mysteriously. Until the root is found, we just have to manage the symptoms the best we can. Hugs to you in the meantime! :bighug:
     
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  57. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Case for your warm words.
    I have decided to take Rocky for testing early next week as I'm pretty sure he has an infection or something like that. It is not normal for well regulated cat to get BGs like that.
    See what the testing will give us.
     
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  58. Case

    Case Member

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    Best of luck to you both!
     
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  59. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2015
    Thank you so much Djamila, your advice is much appreciated (as I'm close to bursting in tears I'm so frustrated with this)!
    As I have decided that I'm taking Rocky for testing on Monday or Tuesday I will be looking into the results of brand new tests, they might tell us more.
    I'm quite capable of interpreting test results as I don't rely on the vet's opinion I had to learn a lot and I question everything vets tell me. Last tests Rocky had (bloods in May, urine in June, July) were unremarkable. The only thing which is off is Spec gravity, everything else was good according to my vet. Potassium was low in my opinion (although within the range and the vet was happy with that) so I decided to give Rocky potassium supplement as per instructions on Tanya's site so testing again after supplementation is a very good idea. We are going to do SDMA (early detection of kidney failure) as well as the vet insists that Rocky should be on Metacam for his arthritis but I hate this medication and refuse. We have just finished a course of Cartrophen injections (similar to Adequan in US) and I can't see any improvement in Rocky's arthritis. Vet says that if Rocky is not diagnosed with CKD than he should be on Metacam. Rocky had BP checked many times as well but it was all good - I think below 150 but I need to double check that.
    Now I need to wait and hopefully we will get to the bottom of this.
    Sending love and hugs too:bighug:
     
  60. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    Case, I apologise for hijacking your thread.
    I will create my own tomorrow so we can continue concentrating on Sookie.
     
  61. Case

    Case Member

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    Jun 13, 2017
    No worries! :cat:
     
  62. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2015
    Nice blue, very good curve on Saturday. It is the way to go.
    Sending hugs:)
     
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  63. Case

    Case Member

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    Jun 13, 2017
    Thank you Marlena! I think she's doing well with this dose so far, I'm looking forward to see how it continues :smuggrin:
     
  64. Case

    Case Member

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    Jun 13, 2017
    Sookie has been bouncing around quite a bit lately. Today I stayed home from work and I'm glad I did because she dropped really quickly today. She went from an amps of 310 to 78 at +4. I gave her about 2 tbsp of FF then and that seemed to even her out a bit. I'm not sure if I should back off the dose to 2 units, what do you all think? I'm just concerned she's possibly dropping into low numbers when I'm not around. At the same time I also don't want to get stuck on the yellows and pinks again, I feel like we're only beginning to make some real progress. This is so confusing.

    I was also wondering about the high preshot numbers. At what point do they start to come down? I know the prozinc curve should look like a smile but shouldn't the whole number range eventually start coming down? It seems like her body has gotten so used to high numbers that when she's in normal range she doesn't feel good. Like today she was so lethargic and was screaming at me when I gave her the extra food at her +4. I'm still trying to understand how this works, any help or insights would be so appreciated!
     
  65. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    Case,
    your PS this morning was a bit lower than normal but still pink and last night was lower pink as well.
    So maybe the dose you gave worked better today because she is generally dropping a bit or she did not eat enough.
    Luckily you were at home. She might be bouncing to red tonight or tomorrow morning. If she isn't in higher numbers at preshot but she is in lowish pinks and you are at home you can stay with the recent dose but if you can't test because you are not there it might be safer to give her 2 units.
    To me it looks rather good that after many days of pinks and yellows she finally drops to blue but the drop is too sharp and she can bounce back to higher pinks and reds.
    This is all I manage to say right now as I'm tired and need to go to sleep!
    I'll check in tomorrow in about 9 hours.
    Good luck
     
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  66. Case

    Case Member

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    Jun 13, 2017
    Thank you Marlena. I was expecting a higher pmps and it was close to 400 so I gave her a fat 2, just a smidge less than 2.25. I may try this for awhile to see how it works because I want to try to be consistent with the dose.
    I totally agree with this and she does seem to consistently bounce after a few lower numbers. I hope her body adjusts soon. For so long she wasn't hitting any blues and now I'm glad she is but it seems so unpredictable how low she'll go especially when the insulin kicks in so quickly. I appreciate the help, have a goodnight!
     
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  67. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2015
    Case darling, so far Sookie did not bounce too high, still in pink numbers rather than red.
    See what happens tomorrow.
    You are doing so great.
    I'm so tired from dealing with this sugar dance, they seem to be doing their own thing, it is so frustrating.
    One thing which comes to mind right now is that you can do the right thing, the same thing consistently and you would have a different, unexpected result. Just prepare yourself for ups and downs but it will be all right in the end,
    Good luck.:)
     
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  68. Case

    Case Member

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    Jun 13, 2017
    That's very true. The numbers are always changing and I realize I shouldn't expect it to be predictable. Thank you for your support and insights, it's been so helpful. I think I'll just take it one day at a time and hope for the best.

    I understand what you mean about it being frustrating, it really is. I've only been at this for such a short time but it already feels like it's been so long, I can't even imagine how it must feel for you. I saw your post about Rocky's seizure and I'm so sorry about that, it must have been terrifying. :( I really hope its nothing too serious and that the vet can figure something out for you. Good luck to you both as well!
     
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  69. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2017
    Yes as soon as you think they're predictable, kitty throws a toy in the works :rolleyes:. To help with frustration, just take things one cycle at a time. You're doing very well with Sookie, Case :)
     
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  70. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Good advice from Yong - one cycle at a time. Try hard to put aside any notion of getting this done quickly and remember that you're following, not leading, this dance. Sounds trite but there really is peace of mind in acceptance.

    I saw your SS note about her feeling lethargic in low numbers. That's a common observation and they usually tolerate them better with frequent exposure to them. Having said that, kitties differ in their natural/preferred BG "set point". Some are more comfortable in higher "good range" numbers while some are OK running lower.
     
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  71. Case

    Case Member

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    Jun 13, 2017
    Thanks Yong, I will do my best to not rush the process and take it one cycle at a time as you said. Its getting a little hard to keep up my patience but I will do my best.

    You're right Kris, I think I do need to accept that I'm not in control of it. It's a tough lesson for me but I think what you're saying is important to consider. I guess I was sort of hoping it would have been easier to get her regulated. I'm not even sure how long she was diabetic so I don't know why I am trying to rush it. Remission might not even happen, and logically I know that but I'm just kind of emotional about it. I guess I'm really looking for reassurance that I'm doing the right thing with her dosing and treatment. I can't thank you all enough for the support, I worry so much about it sometimes. I'm glad her reaction to lower numbers is not unusual, I have a feeling she'll like being on the higher end of normal.
     
  72. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2017
    Yup you are doing the right thing with her, and we're around to help even if you just need reassurance :bighug:
     
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  73. Case

    Case Member

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    Jun 13, 2017
    Truly appreciate it :)
     
  74. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Dear Case, you are doing a fantastic job!
    You seemed to be very collected and organised about it but I can sense now that you, like the rest of us are very emotional and stressed by it and I really understand how you feel, it is not easy.
    But you are in very early stages of this dance and you still have plenty of time to get Sookie in remission, it really is very probable!
    Really interesting that you noticed she is not very good when she is in lower numbers, Rocky is exactly opposite - I see a difference in him when he is not higher than 110. But saying that now I don't know if he is not feeling very well today because BG control is not very good after few days in good numbers or he has higher BG because of some health issue! Go figure!
    Hang on in there, she doesn't really give you many red numbers which is fantastic, think about positives.
    If you feel stressed or frustrated just vent it out here, that will help but at the moment things with Sookie look very promising.
    Rocky and I are sending hugs:bighug:
     
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  75. Case

    Case Member

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    Jun 13, 2017
    Yup sometimes I try to be calm and collected about it but other days are harder. You're right though, it could be much worse she really isn't doing too bad. And I know she's generally pretty happy so that's a big positive. Thank you for the kind words, it's encouraging! It's so funny how different they all are, they like to keep us on our toes don't they?;)
     
  76. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    Case!
    I really like Sookie's curve last couple of days.
    Brilliant numbers, going down gently into blue at nadir.
    Fantastic job, this is the way to go.
    I wouldn't be surprised at all if Sookie goes into remission soon.
    Sending kisses and hugs,
    Rocky and Marlena:):):)
     
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  77. Case

    Case Member

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    Jun 13, 2017
    Thanks! She's been doing really well, I'm relieved to see some nicer numbers without a bounce! :D

    Of course now that we're making progress I'm a little scared to be going on vacation next week. I have someone that is willing to test and give shots, just have to hope she doesn't have a breakthrough and dip too low while I'm gone.
     
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  78. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2015
    Yes, that's a major worry.
    You can decide on a lower dose like 1.5 during that time (better higher numbers for few days than going too low, you can always go back to higher dose on your return).
    Do you really need to go on vacation? Just kidding darling!:p
    You must go and enjoy yourself, everything is going to be just fine.:)
     
  79. Case

    Case Member

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    Jun 13, 2017
    Haha I know right! We had it planned before she was diagnosed but it just happens to be coming up now that we're finally getting somewhere. Ah these cats and their timing! :facepalm: I'm thinking about going to 2 units while I'm away and have the sitter leave out extra food just in case. Haven't decided yet for sure. It's hard because I don't want to lose our progress but I still want her to be safe. I'll be nervous no matter what. I can really use the time off! :cool:
     
  80. Marlena

    Marlena Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2015
    It is so difficult, I know!
    Sending hugs:bighug:
     
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