Dry Food bad?

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Barneys dad, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. Barneys dad

    Barneys dad Member

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    Sep 14, 2017
    My question is what is the best dry food for my Barney. And please I am not switching him to wet, he loves it as a treat but the cost is insane as a daily food. Bad enough I will be spend twice as much on feeding 1 cat RX dry vs 3 cats normal dry food. Plus in my 52 years I have owned or cared for 3 to 4 dozen cats and not a single one had a issue with the dry food and all the mix breed ones lived to well over 15 years.

    I went with Royal Cann Glycobalance because it and Hills M/D are the only one available locally and the Hill only came in 8 lb bag and 50 bucks is to much for something he may or may not eat. He seems to love the Royal Cann .
     
  2. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    You apparently already know we are going to tell you that wet food is better for your cat than any dry. CatInfo.org will give you all the info you need on that topic. If you are set on feeding dry, I think the best option is Young Again Zero or Zero Mature depending Barney's age. I do not know what you are paying for the Royal Canin, but Young Again is not cheap.
     
  3. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    If you're willing to entertain the idea of feeding wet food, most of us feed Friskies or Fancy Feast pates. The Friskies especially is inexpensive to feed. Prescription foods, either wet or dry, aren't needed. Sometimes the diagnosis of feline diabetes forces us to reconsider things that were/are a "no go".
     
  4. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 16, 2015
    The Friskies Pate is pretty cheap .48/can at Walmart. A lower carb, wet food means less insulin will be needed (a savings there) and gives you the best chance to go into remission. The only low carb dry foods are Dr Elseys and Young Again Zero, both are pricey.
     
  5. carmen830

    carmen830 Member

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    Aug 3, 2017
    I feed my cat the Dr. Elsey's Cleanprotein Chicken (Dry) along with FF pates. I used to feed him the Young Again Zero Mature but it gave him really stinky and awful diarrhea. So far he's good with the Dr. Elsey's.
     
  6. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    I have 3 kitties to feed so we do the friskies pate for all of them so it isn't so bad. Comes out to what we would be paying if we were to do LC dry food and is much better because of the added moisture that they don't get with the dry food.

    Another thing to remember, with diabetes there is the higher chance of ketones. It takes extra fluids to flush out the ketones. Being on dry food will make it easier for those ketones to get much higher then they really should ever be.
     
  7. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 26, 2015
    There is absolutely nothing "prescription" in most of those expensive "Rx" foods. Most of the dry ones are also loaded with cellulose, which is the equivalent to cardboard or sawdust, NOT something you want to feed your cat! They are very high in carbs, even the canned "Rx" foods are higher in carbs than we like to feed to diabetic kitties. Cats with FD should eat a diet of canned food that is no higher than 10% carbs. I have four cats, so I fully understand your concerns about the economics of feeding canned food to all of them. I feed mostly Fancy Feast classic pates, which are fairly cheap. There are several others that are pretty economical, Friskies, 9 Lives, even Walmart's Special Kitty, just to name a few. Here is a link to one of the food charts that a lot of us use to make diet decisions for our cats; you'll see what an incredible range of carbs the different foods have. Look for ones that are under 10%. Stay away from the gravy-style foods, they are usually much higher in carbs. The classic pate-style foods are usually a lot lower.
     
  8. Cherish Gallagher

    Cherish Gallagher Member

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  9. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Young again zero carb or Dr elsley's clean protein chicken. Both companies will send a free sample if you ask.
     
  10. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

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    Oct 11, 2015
    I had tried young again and I know many have success but we had vomit and diarrhea -- Dr Elsey chicken is just under 5% and the salmon is just under 10% carb -- none of my cats have had any health issue (vomit etc) with this food. We also use the vita mixer to break up the freeze dried food just to mix it up for them. (pure bites-momentum etc...)
     
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  11. Barneys dad

    Barneys dad Member

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    Sep 14, 2017
    4 1/2 lb bag is 29 bucks at the 12 lb maintainice level that's 28 days of food. that same 28 days is 105 bucks with fancy feast wet or 130 with the same royal cann in wet. Plus all that water in wet is two or three times the volume of dry and I don't think he would eat enough in the time allowed for feedings. We have three cats that were Grazing up to now, now they have to be separated twice a day for feeding.
     
  12. Barneys dad

    Barneys dad Member

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    Sep 14, 2017
    At the dose is on now we will have to throw the insulin out and get a new bottle because of the shelf life, so unless he goes in to remission or we ignore the days keep using expired insulin there is no savings.
     
  13. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 26, 2015
    What type of insulin are you using, and what is his dose? Most of us find that our insulin will last for at least a couple of months; the shelf life is pretty much just an arbitrary number the manufacturers come up with to protect themselves (and it has the added benefit, for them, of more insulin being purchased!). Just because the manufacturer won't guarantee it after a certain number of days doesn't mean it's no good any more.
     
  14. Barneys dad

    Barneys dad Member

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    Sep 14, 2017


    The wife is Diabetic so we are not new to this game of counting Crabs in food and I went thru the whole what's in the bag or can with my senior dog years ago. The RX food is just a stating point since I can't very well spend ever mount of the last three days reading lapels. I agree the RX part is just away marketing but from what I read on the label this a premium food so it's a safe starting point.

    Also the stuff I bought does have supplements in it that regular food does not. I also bought two cans of the same RX and matching them up with 9 cans of Fancy Feast ( the ones all the diabetic sites say are OK). The fancy feast did not have any of the supplements and I hate to say this but people forget about servicing sizes. So if one dry food has 6 carbs and you feed two servings than the meal is 12 carbs. But if the wet has 4 carbs but it takes 4 servings to make a meal than it a 16 carb meal. I am a ex farmer so I know a thing or two about animal feed and how it is made and how important to look beyond the carb and protein count.
     
  15. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    I feed 3 cats also. They all got switched because I didn't want the hassle of trying to feed them different foods. Friskies pate is like half the cost of FF here and is a perfectly acceptable food. Also, just because it is wet food, there is nothing saying that they can't still graze. We pick up 2 hours before meals so we can get accurate readings for PS, but otherwise there is always wet food down. As for there being much more water in the wet, EXACTLY! Cat's actually won't drink as much as they really need, and a diabetic cat really needs the extra fluids and they WILL NOT get that with dry food.

    Often there is people that can go years and have many many cats who do great on dry food, my mother is even one of them, but the important fact here is that once they are diabetic they are more susceptible to infections etc so that is why it is much better to get them to wet.
     
  16. Barneys dad

    Barneys dad Member

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    Sep 14, 2017
    Vetsulin We were told 6 weeks after the first draw. Plus its not about the guarantee, each draw you are adding air so that effects the rate it decays. I would think it would depend on amount left vs the number days. Say you are at the expired date but you have 3/4 left that would be much safer to keep using longer than if you have 1/4 left.
     
  17. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    What they put on their label is also a lot of marketing, it is the same reason why vets aren't good at nutrition. Most of their training is supplied by the pet food industry.

    Actually, nope. Your looking at it wrong. Just because the serving size increases because of what ever reason, weight etc, doesn't mean that the carb for the same food increases. That 5% carb food is still 5% carbs. That is how we look at the food.
     
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  18. Barneys dad

    Barneys dad Member

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    Grazing is not a option any longer. Three cats that range from 8 to 20 lbs. The alpha will eat all the food. We serve wet food twice a week and he will walk over any clean out the other bowls after the other two leave. There is no way of policing those food bowls to monitor what Barney eats and when. As I understand it insulin we have is the wrong type for the kind of feeding your talking about. Testing to decide the dose is questionable if you dose with this type based on the reading and than cat eats a lot or not at all Both would means a high or low between readings.
     
  19. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    That is the reason you pick up the food 2 hours before you do the preshot. You can free feed with any of the insulins. If you don't pick up the food before hand, you are running the risk of shooting at a number that is food influenced. Also, not all kitties do good with meals and they must free feed. Our Zeke is one of those. He starts getting tummy issues the moment we try to do meals only. We have fed this way on Lantus and Novolin, and many feed this way on all the different insulins.

    We have one that wants to eat out of all the bowls, but after a bit, they do get full and when the food is left out all the time, they do learn that they will always have access and won't pig as badly. Our fat boy even started breaking dishes the first time we tried doing wet, before the DX.
     
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  20. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Just a few excerpts from the American Association of Animal Hospitals guidelines:
    Provide the lowest amount of carbohydrate levels in the diet that the cat will eat.
    Canned foods are preferred over dry foods. Canned foods provide:

    • Lower carbohydrate levels.
    • Ease of portion control.
    • Lower caloric density; cat can eat a higher volume of canned food for the same caloric intake.
    • Additional water intake.
    Feeding meals four times daily is ideal to prevent clinical hypoglycemia for cats on insulin. Timed feeders are useful for cats that require multiple meals per day to manage weight and control calories. Use of insulin glargine may reduce the need for timed feedings, as long as home monitoring of BG is being done.
    Free-choice feeding is acceptable for underweight cats on insulin therapy.

    Ultimately, you know your situation and your cats, and you get to decide what works best for you and them. We can only provide the recommendations and our personal experiences.
     
  21. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

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    Oct 11, 2015
    very informative thread....on all sides:cat:
     
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  22. Barneys dad

    Barneys dad Member

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    Sep 14, 2017
    One problem if you work 8 hour day and add in travel time to and from work waiting two hours after you final get home to do the shot and feed the cat blows the 12 hour between out the window. The leaving food out, ship has sailed and hit the reef and sunk here in Cleveland LOL
     
  23. Barneys dad

    Barneys dad Member

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    Sep 14, 2017
    :( You just flunked Diabetes 101. If you eat a 5 oz piece of something that has 4 carbs than you just ate 4 carbs. If you eat 10 oz of the same food you just put 8 carbs in your body. The carb count is for serving size if you double the number of servings you double the carbs. If the label says so many carbs per can or oz than you multiply by how much of the unit of measurement you eat.
     
  24. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    Diabetes 101 for humans, not kitties.
     
  25. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    If that was the case, you would be finding stickies all over the place saying the max carbs a kittie can have during the day and there would be food diaries etc besides just our stylesheets we use for logging testing and doses.
     
  26. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    You just leave out plenty to last during the day. If you are worried about freshness, you can easily freeze some. If it causes you to not be able to only have food out for the 10 hours and pick up at +10, then you can get a automatic feeder and after a set time, it no longer has any food.

    Really, this boils down to what you are willing or not willing to do for your kitties. Many of us here on the board go the full 9 yards, there is always workarounds for anything that needs done to make it work for you.
     
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  27. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Dr. Pierson's list that many of us use gives carb content as a % of the food, not actual grams of carbs per serving. I think there's been some misunderstanding in this discussion of how the carb content is being expressed. On FDMB we express carb content strictly as a % of the food as fed, not actual grams of carbs per serving.
     
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  28. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Everyone here is willing to help and offer advice about what we've found that works. That's the great thing about coming to a site like this - many members creating a huge number of person-years of experience treating FD. Getting on top of FD absolutely requires rethinking some practices, learning new skills and being open to advice from people with experience. It's your choice, though, to maintain your household's status quo.
     
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  29. Meridith and Zeke

    Meridith and Zeke Member

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    May 22, 2017
    Yes! That is what I was thinking but just couldn't explain it correctly. :) Thank you!

    Basically, with humans you have to go by grams because we can't just eat one food 24/7, so to keep track and to make sure humans don't eat too much carbs, they track the grams. Kitties basically eat the exact same thing 24/7 therefore you only need to know the carb % to make sure they aren't getting too many.
     
  30. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I know that people who follow certain diets count grams of carbs over the day. It was just the lack of clarity on how carb amount was being expressed that caused the confusion.
     
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  31. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

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    Oct 11, 2015
    FD a relationship and a full time job is = to 3 full time jobs--we all do the best we can or we probably wouldn't be researching and on FDMB:)
     
  32. Barneys dad

    Barneys dad Member

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    Sep 14, 2017
    ??? Sorry but a Carb is a Carb period the make up of food does not change with who is eating it. If a can or scoop of food is a serving and the label says it has has X amount of Carbs, Protein, fat, fiber and salt, etc and you serve two servings than you just double the amount you are feeding. I grew up on farm mixing and ordering custom food for the farm critter so I know what I am saying is fact. Also after my Barney was diagnosed I hit the web and have been studying the different foods mfg trying to find the best for Barney and a new food for the other two so they are eating healthier. Ever source says what I all ready know to be fact. Nutrition information is per severing size and you multiply that by number of servings. One thing I looked for all along is the amount of Salt in the food ( started with my senior dog years ago) and a lot of the food including wet has two or more for different salts listed close to the top of the list.
     
  33. Barneys dad

    Barneys dad Member

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    Sep 14, 2017
    ??? Does not change anything, you just restated the same problem but in different terms. If a can or scoop is 3 ounces and 5% is carbs than you are still have a fixed number of carbs or any thing else per serving. Double or triple the serving than you just increased the number of carbs, protein salt etc per meal.
    So in plain English if a 3 oz serving is 5% carbs than 0 .15 oz is carbs or 4.25 Grams. So if you feed 6 oz at a meal than you just fed your cat 8.5 grams of Carbs. What Dr. Pierson is trying to say is this food or that food is low in carbs PER SERVING so you can find and use the lowest one with out doing a lot of the math. In the case of some wet food that is nearly all meat the amount of Carbs is so low it is not worth counting. But the danger with thinking you can ignore serving size is all the other things in that food. How many of people are looking the salt and additives listed? A lot of this food has bad amounts of Salts and that can hurt your cat or dog just as much as the Carbs your watching.
     
  34. Barneys dad

    Barneys dad Member

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    Sep 14, 2017
    Remember if a 3 Oz can is 5% carb than that's 4.25 Grams. If a 5 Oz can is 5% carbs than that is 7 grams of Carbs. But in the end the 5 OZ can is better becaseu its 1.4 grams per Oz vs 1.42 grams per oz if the feeding amount is equal. So with that info you move on to how much your feeding the cat. If one food is 3 oz of food per 5 lbs of body weight and the other is 3 oz per 3 lbs of body weight the total intake of everything goes up with the one food.
     
  35. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    I am confused as to why you posted requesting advice on selecting food. It sounds like you are very well versed in nutritional analysis. Maybe you just wanted to pull us in so you could conduct a class? :D
     
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  36. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    I agree. I really don't think we can help you with food choices. Anything else diabetes related on your mind?
     
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  37. Brittyn

    Brittyn New Member

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    Aug 11, 2017
    I started feeding my cat Young Again Zero Mature about a month ago because she refuses to eat any kind of wet food! Thankfully I've seen very positive results. I highly recommend giving it a try.
     

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