Experienced PZI users only please...

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Jena4277, Mar 4, 2018.

  1. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    hi. THis is a long story. NOt sure how to link previous threads but it is called “Help PM Dosage advice needed”

    Anyway, my cat has been diagnosed with diabetes since last July and has been on Vetsulin and switched to PZI in January. On my swag spreadsheet it is marked with the redline. For weeks she had been vomiting white liquid foam so I tried cerenia and acid reflux meds. It helped a little bit. Then last week she had another bought of pancreatitis and I brought her into the vet for blood work and they diagnosed her with pancreatitis and hyperthyroid. She just started on the cream for at the hyperthyroid is on cerenia for pancreas.
    This weekends numbers have been very off. Other senior users advised me that her dose should have been reduced when her numbers went below 60 which was a while back so I am afraid that I have been giving her the wrong dose of insulin for a while. Can any experienced pzi users look at my spreadsheet and help me out with the dosage and numbers? (With the understanding also that pancreatitis can cause an increase in blood glucose numbers because of the inflammation ) my plan is to reduce to a fat 1.0, and get evening tests this week after work, and then curve her on Saturday. Maybe that will help get the pre-shots down? If the evening numbers are still high like today, I would like to be able to communicate with someone with experience this week that can help me out and provide advice.thanks.
     
  2. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    You have a good testing plan. Just post here daily or more often if you like and we’ll see it. We can certainly guide you through this. The regulars here check this forum daily but if we don’t see regular posts from a member we assume everything is OK.
     
  3. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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  4. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Whoops! Sorry I posted on the other thread too. But I'll post on here from now on!
     
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  5. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Arg! I just posted on the old thread too! So here it is again so we can get onto this one:

    How many hours between your PM shot time and your bedtime? I'm curious where Abby goes tonight, but don't want you to start the week sleep deprived!
     
  6. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    a solid 5. Im in CT (EST) so she gets 5am and 5pm shots and #teacherlife equals bedtime @10pm, 11 at the latest. :coffee:
     
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  7. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Perfect. If you can grab a test as you're about to climb in bed, +5 is definitely far enough into the cycle to see how she's doing.

    And you have some magical superpower because in my #teacherlife bedtime is at 9! (I'm old though :rolleyes:)
     
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  8. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Then I would say to keep the dose in the morning since you'll be gone, but depending on what we see, I might suggest an increase for tomorrow night.
     
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  9. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    ok. I can get a +3 and +5 no prob, +6 if I am awake because of The Walking Dead :banghead:

    Also, no apology necessary for thinking you hurt me - getting a huge wallop of a dx this week (x2) has thrown me, my mom is recovering from major surgery and yesterday was my dad's bday who died in 2012 so it has been an emotional weekend, wiping tears away in the grocery store today while filling up 20 fancy feast cans in my carriage because the deal is 20 for $12:p ...Will post numbers tonight.

    Random question - I know this shot wasnt a fur shot bc i smelled it and touched it gently to see if any liquid was there....this has been a habit since I did my first fur shot! But can insulin be absorbed almost too quickly and dissipate if for example the shot was too close to the outer layer of the skin and not deep enough into the tent?
     
  10. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Yes, every once in awhile a dose will be injected into the "wrong" place and either hit faster than normal, or seem to do nothing at all. Unfortunately, there isn't really any way to know if it's in a bad place until you see the numbers. That's part of why we try to consider more than a single cycle in making decisions. I read a super interesting research article about that once - apparently the insulin pushes into little channels and looks like a tree and the shape of the tree and spread of the branches impacts the absorption and use of the insulin which is part of why numbers can vary from day to day. Are you thinking it might be something like that more than the p-titis?

    Speaking of the p-titis, how does she seem? Is she sleeping in funny positions? lethargic? hesitant to jump up or down from furniture? Or does she seem normal and up and playing?
     
  11. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Oh wow that sounded nerdy....:rolleyes::bookworm::rolleyes::bookworm:
     
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  12. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Nerds rule!! :D
     
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  13. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Also, Jena, I'm so sorry you've had such a tough week. Anniversaries are so hard, and it sounds like there has been a ton of other stuff going on for you too.

    Sending you comforting vines and virtual hugs...:bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  14. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    She is sleeping in normal positions - extended, or snail-like, or sitting as the breadloaf. She had been pretty alert and normal the last few days. Today she has been super sleepy. They took blood from her bad leg and she seemed sore for a while, and it does take her a minute to get ready to jump up or down which is unusual. Unfortunately she doesn't play anymore but when she is feeling well she is super social on the couch with the crowd and she has been a bit secluded today and yesterday until about noon when she was hungry. She has been with me on the couch grading papers since.
     
  15. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you've had an awful lot to deal with lately. :bighug: Apologies if our responses seem perfunctory (I'm more guilty of that than Djamila is - science nerd here ... o_O). Sometimes we don't have all the details of a person's situation front and centre of our mind.
     
  16. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    yes. Because she is only 6lbs there is not much to grab anymore near her scruff so I have worked my way down to in between the shoulder blades which gives me less of a pain reaction from her, many times no flinch or meow at all...perhaps I haven't been jabbing her in a good spot as I have been doing it with eyes barely open...
     
  17. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Does she have loose skin along her sides? If so you can try pulling up a tall tent of skin there, feel for a good tent door with your finger and shoot there. I find that Teasel prefers that area and the more taut the skin the more painless the poke.
     
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  18. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    sorry super blurry but current situation LOL
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Will try!
     
  20. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    She seems peaceful/comfortable. Poor little girl ... :bighug:
     
  21. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Is she using any bupe for the pancreatitis, or pain meds for the arthritis? If not, I wonder if that might help? Meatloafing positions and hesitance to jump are two of the signs that Sam is having a flare up. He sits meatloaf style naturally, but there is something different about it when he's having pain. And the effort to jump up and jolt of jumping down make him avoid either action. I don't think anyone looking at him would know he was in pain, but it's little things I've learned to recognize over the past few months.

    I haven't dealt with arthritis, but I think Adequan is often used. I wonder if that might help with both types of pain? It could be worth asking on the Main forum to see if one or the other might be best to manage inflammation from both conditions.

    I've also been using CBD for Sam's p-titis pain and I know that helps with arthritis as well. This one is recommended from a number of kitty health forums:
    https://www.cwhemp.com/all-charlottes-web-cannabinoid-hemp-cbd-supplements/everyday-extract-oils

    PS My kitties love fleece-y blankets too! That one looks extra soft!
     
  22. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    so little :( Hopefully this Rx ear gel for h-thy will help. Vet said in 3 - 4 weeks we should see a little weight gain and better bloodwork numbers...(insert pray hands emoji here)
     
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  23. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I tried adequan and she wont eat it even in super 007 disguise mode.
    Will read about the CBD - thanks!

    This is grandmas banket which is a no-no place but bc she is feeling ill, she is getting a break from scolding!
     
  24. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    My mom's elderly kitty has been on this form of thyroid med for a very long time. He's quite old and has other issues but the gel has put his thyroid levels back into normal range. She had to increase the gel dose v-e-r-y slowly because he didn't react well to it at first - nausea, vomiting, etc. The vet wanted to double the dose too soon but we said no, designed a plan to slowly increase over many, many weeks/months and finally got him there. He's now at his recommended therapeutic dose and tolerates it with no problem.
     
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  25. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Adequan can be given as a subQ injection.
     
  26. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    ohhhh good to know! At home or at vet office?
     
  27. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    People here do it at home. @JanetNJ ?
     
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  28. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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  29. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    @Djamila @Kris & Teasel I just tested her PM post food and shot - 269. Thoughts??
    PS When I picked her up to test her, which I usually dont but she was downstairs and my equipment is up, she screamed....she is in pain. Will talk to the vet tomorrow about pain med.
     
  30. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    It's not showing on your SS. To clarify: was this after her evening meal and shot? How long past the shot? What was her pre shot test number with no food for 2 hours beforehand? That's what I need to judge this.

    Re pain: do you think it's abdominal or joints?
     
  31. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    OOOOPSSSSS - i meant to say her PM PRE-shot. I didnt shoot her yet, but she is eating now.

    Gosh idk about the pain, she is usually very vocal when anyone picks her up but she is probably more annoyed bc she doesnt feel well. I did have to pick her up by her stomach and not chest/feet which I usually do to prevent any additional pain. I will keep an eye on her.
     
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  32. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Abdominal pain goes along with pancreatitis. Pain meds might help her be more comfortable. Give the same dose tonight as per Djamila's recommendation.
     
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  33. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    sounds good.. ill grab 3 and 5 like i said. thanks!
     
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  34. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Oh, sweet baby girl! I'm so sorry to hear Abby is having pain. I had to do a little convincing to get my vet to give me bupe for him. I ended up showing him this article as it recommends pain management even in the absence of obvious signs of pain. Sam's fits in the "chronic" category at this point, so he uses sublingual buprenorphine, as do most cats around here. It's the easiest to adjust and administer since you don't have to pill the cat, nor give a shot (not that those of us with FD cats mind giving shots!).

    https://idexxcom-live-b02da1e51e754...pec-fpl-treatment-for-feline-pancreatitis.pdf

    Hopefully your vet will just give you some without needing to be convinced!
     
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  35. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Yep I had to do some convincing too. My vet didn't want to give bupe, but then I took Tigress in once and saw a different vet in the practice...and she has a cystitis kitty (that's why Tigress has bupe) too. I asked for pain relief and she immediately agreed to give me a prescription for bupe. She told me it was the best pain management for cats and agreed that she needs it during a flare up. I hope your vet will be as agreeable as that...but remember that YOU are the advocate for your kitty and if they don't want to give you something, I'd push a little...gently of course.

    I hope Abby feels better soon! Sending you vines!
     
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  36. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I've also been given oral bupe for Teasel when he had bouts of cystitis.
     
  37. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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  38. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Whoa! So apparently 1.25 is enough insulin, and the p-titis is not propping up her numbers. Good to know.

    Give her a snack of regular low carb food. Not too much. Maybe a tablespoon or so.
     
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  39. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Oh, and tomorrow morning lower the dose to 1u. That's a big drop in three hours.
     
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  40. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Thanks. Will do.
     
  41. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes to what Djamila said! :eek:
     
  42. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Okay, now for the longer explanation:

    The low carb food is to try to slow the drop. She's still perfectly safe, and it would be great if she would surf (surf: stay in roughly the same ranges for a number of hours). Feeding her low carb food can slow the drop and help her do that. If you give her higher carb food it can send her numbers up. We don't want her to go up, but we also don't want her to go down, or at least not by much more.

    The one tablespoon: If she does decide to keep dropping, then you're going to need her to be willing to eat higher carb food later. If she gorges herself on regular food, then she might refuse to eat at a time when you need her to eat. So we use small amounts in order to make sure there is room for more.
     
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  43. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Why do I always post and then remember one more thing?!?!

    Also, please do another test at +4 so we can see where she's heading.
     
  44. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Ok. She ate some more like 10 Min ago. I will test and post at +4. (Another 40 Min or so)
     
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  45. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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  46. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Perfect. I'd give her another tablespoon of food if she'll take it. You still have a little ways to go until a typical nadir, but it looks like she's surfing now instead of dropping. If she holds around these ranges until +5, I think she'll be good for the night. Just keep her snacking on the low carb. Are you up for one more test at +5? I'm so sorry to keep asking you to test. Is Abby doing okay with it?
     
  47. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    So now she is fast asleep. Not sure if she will eat. Usually she does get up herself at 10 which is in 30 minutes. She is fine with blood testing. But I’m just nervous bc of the cream application. I have to remember which ears I can an cannot touch. Will test and repost at at +5 and reduce tomorrow like you said. Talk soon! Thanks!
     
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  48. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you need to wake her up. She can eat when she wakes up later. :coffee:
     
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  49. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Omg she just got up and is eating LOL
     
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  50. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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  51. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Beautiful! Nice job surfing, Abby! And great job taking care of her tonight!!! Sleep well!
     
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  52. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Looks like you had a good, if a bit low, night! Go Abby! Hope you get some nice coffee this morning. :)
     
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  53. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Lovely greens last night! Poor you though ...
     
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  54. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    :joyful: I’m not too bad today actually! About to do her pm pretest. Will post for confirmation.
     
  55. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    @Djamila @Kris & Teasel YIKES! 455
    - should I keep going with the 1.0 to see if she will even out tonight when I grab numbers? She hasn’t been that high in quite awhile. :confused:
     
  56. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    @Rachel if you are around I would appreciate any advice thanks !
     
  57. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I gave her 1.0 to see how she cruises on that. (Couldn’t wait any longer, no worries)
     
  58. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Just seeing this now. This looks like a big bounce after those greens yesterday. Try for a before bed test to see if she's starting to come down off the trampoline. :)
     
  59. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I’ll try to get 3 and 5 like last night.
     
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  60. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Whoops so sorry! Had some crazy traffic on the way home today..I think Kris is right and you're seeing some major bouncing. Good news is this should give you some good data to see what 1 unit does on a bounce like this!
     
  61. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    No problem. At +3 she is 94. Man oh Man what a dive
     
  62. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Give her a small snack of her regular food to try to slow the BG descent - a couple of teaspoons is enough. She might have done this through the day today but you weren't there to catch it. That might be the reason for the red PMPS tonight.
     
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  63. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    She takes a bit to finish her 5pm dinner so she will be snacking on leftovers soon - if not in the next 30 or so ill try to entice her by heating it up she likes a good porridge lol
     
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  64. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    What is up with Miss Abby?!?! I wonder if she did go low today....? :confused:o_O
     
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  65. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    she is a hot mess, thats whats up :p
     
  66. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Just did a +4 bc I don’t think I’m gonna make it another hour it was 124. I cannot tell if she ate. Will continue with 1 in the AM and post.
     
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  67. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    ON a separate note she will be 15 in 3 days :nailbiting:
     
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  68. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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  69. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Looks like a bounce from last night's low numbers to me. How'd she eat this morning? Can you leave food out for Abby during the day? I can't recall...
     
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  70. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I agree that it looks like a bounce inflated number. Keep the dose for now.
     
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  71. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I always leave food out for her and mom is home to replenish fresh food which happens about 2 - 3 times before dinner. When I left she had half of her breakfast eaten (half of a 3oz can). She will finish the bowl and also the supplementary meals by mom by her dinnertime.
    I am optimistic with keeping the same dose in hopes she will balance out. :)
     
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  72. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Great! Just wanted to make sure she has some food if she needs it. I’m optimistic about that dose too!
     
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  73. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    She is 392. Eveything was eaten when I got home today, but she hasnt touched her dinner yet...she is sleeping. Keeping an eye out for nausea round 2.....
     
  74. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    The evening numbers might be revealing again.
     
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  75. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    will grab em!
     
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  76. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    173 at +3
     
  77. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    That's a sizeable drop from PMPS. Will you be up to try a +4?
     
  78. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    yup and i will grab a 5
     
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  79. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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  80. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    A little flatter today, but still a nice drop. Abby sure likes to be dramatic, doesn't she? ;)
     
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  81. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    you have no idea #diva
     
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  82. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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  83. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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  84. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Gotta be honest, I miss the greens already. Although at least you'll get to sleep well tonight.

    Have you started the thyroid meds? How are her p-titis symptoms? (you can answer tomorrow if you're heading to bed - not urgent questions, just curious)
     
  85. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Bad news. She is vommitting again. She got off cerenia Sunday. And with the snow coming idk if I can get more until Friday. Can you help me come up with a plan? Do some cats stay on cerenia the rest of their lives? I cannot give it in pill form, it’s too difficult. I know my Vet has Injections but I’ve never heard of taking those home. Today her appetite was less and her pain seemed more. I got home too late to call Vet for pain meds.
    Started thyroid Saturday. That’s going fine. My Vet hasn’t been able to connect the vommitting to anything and neither can google enough for me to get an answer.
     
  86. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    The cerenia is for pancreatitis, right? Pancreatitis can be a relapsing/remitting condition so theoretically she shouldn’t need cerenia all the time, only when a flare is happening. Be aware, too, that felimazole can cause vomiting and poor appetite. It might be hard to separate out which is causing the vomiting.
     
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  87. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Yes the cerenia is for her p-titis. How long can a flare last? Hers is almost a week now. She had been vommitting almost 3-4 times a week prior to any talk of hyperthyroidism so I doubt it’s due to that med just bc of the timing. That’s also why I asked about chronic upset acidic stomachs. Idk what the answer is. Vet also said she could have a mass in her stomach and that would only be shown on a very expensive ultrasound. But at this point I want answers.... I will call the Vet and see what they think/can do.
     
  88. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Sam's longest flare was almost two weeks - though there were a few better and a few worse days during that time. Yes, there are p-titis cats that take cerenia daily. Usually if it's chronic they'll just stay on it to keep it in check a bit. Doesn't eliminate bad days, but reduces them.

    When is the snow supposed to hit? Is there an emergency vet near you that might carry it and you could get it tonight? or in the morning if the snow is supposed to hold off a bit? Sometimes I have to pill Sam, but a lot of the time he'll just eat the cerenia if I put it on a plate with a bunch of crushed up freeze-dried chicken. It doesn't seem to taste bad the way a lot of meds do. He gets a funny look on his face if he actually bites into it, but doesn't seem too bothered.

    Since you give injections anyway, you might be able to talk the vet into letting you do cerenia at home as well. Never hurts to ask/beg.

    CBD helps with nearly everything (inflammation, vomiting, nausea, pain), so if you can get some of that, it can help to augment the other meds. I haven't found it to be enough completely on its own, but some folks have - I think it just depends on the cat and the severity.

    I'm so so sorry to hear she's having a bad night. Sending hugs to you and healing vines to Abby!
     
  89. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2017
    I got amps 383 and also a snow day so I can get some day numbers hooray! And possibly get to the vet before 8-18 inches arrives!
     
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  90. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Nice! You know you've joined the group of crazy cat ladies when a snow day excites you because you can get some mid cycle numbers. :p
     
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  91. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Hooray for snow days!!! I'd be jealous except that storm headed towards you sounds pretty serious. Take care and stay safe and warm!
     
  92. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2017
    First number not so great. +3.5 331. I wonder if I did what I did the other day and didn’t get a good shooting spot. Will post in an hour.
     
  93. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Looks like a bit of bouncing from the blues. They don't have to go really low for a bounce to happen, just lower than usual or a faster than usual drop (like you had last night). I suspect we'll be recommending 1.25 u again soon but you can ease your way there by trying a fat 1.0 u tomorrow AM or on the weekend. :)
     
  94. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    You might also keep track of how symptomatic she is during a given cycle. That might help with interpreting the numbers. You mentioned last night she started vomiting again and seemed to be having some pain, if that has continued this morning, it could be why the numbers are higher. I agree with Kris that she may need to move back up in dose a little, though I think I'd move to the fat 1.0 tonight. I'm not nearly as patient as Kris is! :p
     
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  95. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    We make a good team, though, Djamila. ;)
     
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  96. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    It does help balance things! I need to be reminded to be more patient sometimes!
     
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  97. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2017
    So not to be that person ...but why did I need to try the 1.0 in the first place?
    I’m trying to understand how this all works.
    I will try it on the weekend so I can see day numbers, I prefer those to PM ones. About to test again. Will post shortly.
     
  98. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2017
    +5 175
     
  99. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Here's the reasoning: you had a lime green with 1.25 u on Feb 24 and a low dark green on the night of Feb 27 (and that was a really big drop from PMPS). Those dives suggested that 1.25 u was a little high and might cause more lows but also send her off into a fit of bouncing. We suggested lowering the dose to 1.0 u to see if she'd drop lower but not too low and maybe calm down some. Her recent data at 1.0 u has produced more moderate lows but blues instead of high dark greens - and those are the end goal. That's why we said you might increase again soon. I suggested trying a fat 1.0 u to nudge the nadir a bit lower but (hopefully) not set off a bouncing fit.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
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  100. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Nice drop and she's probably close to nadir which is generally around +5 to +7 for ProZinc. Try a +6 if you feel up to it. My guess is another blue. That will support to advice to try a fat 1.0 u.
     
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