Fancy Feast Question

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Adam Flowers, Nov 8, 2017.

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  1. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

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    I FINALLY started the transition from dry to wet food.

    I went with Fancy Feast Classic Pate. My question is this: How long can I leave the food out before it goes bad?

    Mogee, based on weight, will need about 5+ cans a day. He was always free fed so it has been hard to get him to eat his serving at his designated times. I currently feed at 6 am and 6 pm but plan on feeding 2 cans at 6 am, 1 more at +6 and do the same at 6 pm and at +6.

    Also, I am wondering what dose to reduce to? Mogee is currently at 6 units twice a day but I know this wet food will bring his numbers down. I'm afraid to give that amount. Any advice is greatly appreciated. I will also post in the Prozinc forum.

    Thanks guys!
     

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  2. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    It's fine to leave it out all day if you want, but you want to pick up all food 2 hours before Pre-shot test times so you get a number that's not influenced by food. Adding water to it to help keep it from drying out is a trick a lot of us use (as well as the more water you can get into them, the better for their kidneys!)

    That's quite a bit, but until he's better regulated, he may need that much. The "formula" on the cans is too much for a normal cat though. There's a formula that's on Dr. Lisa's website that says a good place to start is [13.5 x weight in lbs] + 70 for calories per day.....then weigh once a week and adjust as needed. Using that formula, you'd at about 306 calories per day....each can of FF runs between about 80-90 calories, so using 85 as an average, that's a little over 3.5 cans per day.

    Yes, cutting the carbs should really help bring down his numbers, but we also don't want to completely start over because that may lead to glucose toxicity setting in from starting at too low a dose.

    As long as you're home testing, I think I'd drop back to 4U for now......Have some high carb food like Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers in the house as well as Karo/honey/syrup in case you need it if he drops too low.

    As his numbers come down as you get rid of the current food, we may suggest dropping even lower (and of course we'd drop lower if 4U proves to be too much already!)


    LOVE LOVE LOVE the video....He's such a good boy!! Couple of ideas for you....A lot of us just freehand the lancet instead of using the device.....a lot of times the device makes it harder for you to see where you're poking and you miss. If you just hold the lancet with your fingers, you can see where you're aiming better.

    After you get the sample, instead of just wiping the blood off with the cotton ball, apply a little pressure for a few seconds. It helps to control any bruising. A lot of us use cotton cosmetic pads instead of cotton balls....you can hold half behind the ear (to protect your finger from being poked) and then when you've got your sample, just fold it over and squeeze for a few seconds.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
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  3. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Agree with Chris for most of it. You should test often. It is possible the dry food is producing a lot of sugar. In that case you may need much less insulin - even down to 1 or 2 units. So watch your kitteh and test sufficiently.

    Our cats live on Fancy Feast classics. Pretty healthy product, and plenty of variety. We leave it out up to 24 hours. It is not going to spoil faster than that.
     
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  4. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

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    Thank you so much for all the advice! I appreciate it so much!

    I gave Mogee a can of FF last night to see if he would eat it (he's always ate dry), and he loved it!

    This morning I gave him 2 cans of FF but also left out some dry Glycobalance. I know you are to transition slowly but I switched Mogee from Pro Plan to the Glycobalance in 2 days and he did just fine. I also only gave 3 units instead of his 6. Boy am I glad I only have 3 units. It is almost +4 right now and Mogee is already down to 99, his first time in the GREEN.

    I should have listened to all of you much earlier and switched his food to all wet. It definitely looks like his dose is going to be reduced significantly.

    The video I posted of me testing Mogee was recorded the 2nd day I started testing him. I was still very new to the process. Thank you for all the advice pertaining to the video. About a day after posting the video of me testing to my signature, I was advised to put pressure on the testing spot to reduce bruising to which I do each time now. I also tried to free hand the Lancet but, for us, it works better using the lancing pen.

    Once again, thanks for the help. Hopefully I can get Mogee regulated on the FF!
     

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  5. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

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    Thank you Jeff for taking time to reply. I greatly appreciate it.

    I too believed the FF would reduce his numbers based on what I have read here so I only gave Mogee 3 units this morning instead of 6, half his normal dose. We are in the green for the first time and I took the rest of the morning off from work because he was already down to 117 at +3 when I came home quick to test and it worried me. I will be keeping an eye on him until he starts to go back up as we are already at 99 at +3.5.
     
  6. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Look at Mr Pickles in the green. Good boy! :cat:
     
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  7. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

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    Sep 23, 2017
    I just tested him again and he is 88 at +4.5. Should I start to worry about the possibility of him going hypo??

    Should I give syrup?
     
  8. Justgin

    Justgin Member

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    May 8, 2017
    If he's not having any hypo symptoms right now, I would wait and test again at +5.5 to be sure he hasn't gone down further.

    Do you have some higher carb food on hand for your hypo kit? I give Oreo Levemir which is pretty strong and long lasting, so I keep 2 cans of FF gravy covered wet food. I think it's about 25% carbs.
     
  9. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

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    Okay. Thanks for the advice. I still have some of the dry Glycobalance I can give him but he doesn't seem to hungry at the moment.

    I am going to stay home from work until his numbers start to go back up, have been testing every half hour.

    Definitely need to get my hypo kit together!
     
  10. Justgin

    Justgin Member

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    Definitely! Sooner rather than later. Just have on hand about 2 or 3 cans of wet food you would NOT give a diabetic cat - iow high carbs. Dry food is good too, but a small amount of wet can be smeared on their gums if they're lying down and not able to eat. The syrup helps raise the blood sugar and the high carb food helps maintain it especially if he's on a long acting insulin. ProZinc is not long acting and so it peaks in 4 hours. Is that correct? I first had Oreo on that but it didn't maintain him any length of time. I work long hours and told the vet that too, but she still put him on it for some strange reason.
     
  11. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

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    I guess I am not too sure about the peak. I was under the impression that with Prozinc, the peak was closer to the +6 mark. But as with everything else, my vet doesn't know what he's talking about. I should definitely get that figured out in the Prozinc forum ASAP.

    Just tested at +5. He's 83.. Still going down...
     

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  12. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    If you review your testing history, you should be able to get at least an idea of when his nadir (lowest point) usually occurs in a cycle.
     
  13. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Prozinc is a long-lasting insulin though it is an in-and-out type insulin (no 'depot' like with Lantus). 'Normally' nadir should occur around mid-cycle which is +6, but it can vary greatly.
     
  14. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Adam, if he is 87 at +6, I think he will be fine. Of course, stick with your plan to monitor until you see the numbers rising.

    Oh, wait, if he was 83 an hour before that, I guess he is already rising. A couple more tests should confirm that you are all clear.
     
  15. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

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    I headed back to work after the 87. It shows +6 but it was really +5.5. I haven't had the chance to update that on my SS.

    My fiance will be home the next 2 hours so he should be okay I hope.

    I really wonder what dose I should give tonight since he always runs lower at night. Obviously i will base it of his PMPS but I'm guessing 1 or 2 units.
     
  16. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

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    Thanks for all the help!
     
  17. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    Let's wait and see where he's at tonight! There's a lot of time between +6 and PMPS

    Don't be shocked if he's a lot higher by then....he may very well bounce from getting into such good numbers today.

    Cats bounce because 1. they drop too low 2. they drop quickly and 3. they drop into numbers their body isn't used to being at (or any mix of all 3)

    In the case of #3, they might not drop too low, or drop quickly, but if their body is used to living in the 300's and one day he dropped to the 80's (even though that's not dangerously low), his liver still thinks there's an emergency so Mr. L releases stored sugars and hormones to bring him back up to where he's "used to" being. Unfortunately, Mr. L isn't real precise...he just wants the blood glucose higher!

    It can take up to 3 days for those hormones and sugars to clear the body, so it's important to understand when they're bouncing and when they just need more insulin (and it's not always easy to know)

    Usually, with time, Mr. L re-learns that it's OK to be in those better numbers and calms down....the bounces don't go as high and they clear faster.
     
  18. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

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    Okay. I figured that might happen. He was 87 at +5.5 and now on my lunch break he is at 282 at +7.5. So he definitely went right back up. I hope that going that low won't push him up into the red at PMPS.

    What BG do I want to keep him between. My vet, said he's "happy if he's under 280 the majority of the day." I always get nervous when he has thr high preshot numbers.

    Thanks again for all the help
     
  19. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    Normal blood glucose numbers for cats are between 50-120....the more time they spend in those numbers, the more their pancreas can hopefully heal and resume working

    Most vets are happy with them running much higher because their main concern is hypo's (mostly due to people who don't home test)

    My first vet that diagnosed China said he'd be happy if she'd stay in the 300's....and "she may live another 4 months"....that was over 4 years ago and one of the reason's he's our FORMER vet.

    But really, what's most important is keeping them below renal threshold....the point where their kidney's can't handle the excess glucose and it spills over into the urine. That means there's a lot of stress being put on those kidneys (which are the weakest organs in any cat, not just diabetics). Cats don't really die from diabetes unless they're not treated at all....they die from the complications that tend to come with it, like kidney failure, or from something totally unrelated.

    Renal threshold varies from cat to cat, but it's generally thought to run between about 180 and 250
     
  20. Justgin

    Justgin Member

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    I usually leave their FF out for several hours, about 4 when I'm at home during the day. But when I'm not at home, it's left out at least 8 hours, sometimes as long as 13 depending on my schedule that day. I wash their bowls before each meal.
     
  21. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

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    So I want him to be below 180? Or 250? Or do you mean each cat varies and it's somewhere on there?

    Thanks again
     
  22. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    The renal threshold in cats falls somewhere around 250, but like everything, there is a range. I have seen a few different ranges in my research, but most are within 200 to 280. Of course, since you are using a human meter, your readings would be lower than the actual cat number. So, scoot those numbers down a little.

    Staying under the renal threshold as much as possible is good. :)
     
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  23. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    I like the video too. You're doing good. Glad you stayed and tested him until he started coming back up. Also it's good to hear he is taking to the wet food.

    I am more conservative with insulin than many on the forum. Some cats are more sensitive to changes. Like my Leo. He often gets 4.5 units in the AM. If I raise it to 5.0, he sometimes goes to BG=50, which is near hypo for him. So for Leo (and other cats), I would rather see them nadir at 80 or 90 to 150. Hypos are really hard on cats.

    With your continued diligence with Mogee, I see a long healthy lifespan for him. Over time, it will really just become routine. Leo has been on the juice for 2.5 years.
     
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  24. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

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    Thanks for the kind words. I sure hope Mogee has many years ahead of him. Love him more than life itself.
     
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  25. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

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    Mogee was 375 at PMPS. I stuck with the 3 units. He usually runs lower at night. We will see what happens...
     
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  26. paris

    paris New Member

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    Nov 15, 2017
    Hi, I've come across this page as my cat has been diagnosed with stage 4 CRD, to be honest we are at a loss with what to do. the vet is saying she doesn't really stand a chance but from all what I've read I feel like she might, and they are not even 100% sure it is CRD unless we pay £370 more for a few lab tests. I feel like they are just telling me its the worst because at the moment I dont have the money to pay for everything they are asking. currently she is at the vet on a drip and antibiotics just incase its only a bad infection. the vet ruled out diabetes even though the symptoms are the same as CRD. I have a feeling it could be that instead of CRD or even possibly both.
    I would really appreciate any advice anyone can give you all sound like you have much more information than my vet is telling me.
    we've already paid £350 for blood test, urine test drip and overnight stay, the further £370 is for further tests at the lab to see if it is kidney failure which we thought the original tests were for
     
  27. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Hi and welcome. You will want to start a new thread to post your questions. Just to go this page: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/feline-health-the-main-forum.28/ and click Post New Thread at the top.
     
  28. paris

    paris New Member

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