Feeding question

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by ssblackcat Sophia & Susan, May 27, 2016.

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  1. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    After always getting fed free range dry food and a can of FF each evening, I now feed Sophia FF Classic twice a day (6:00am and 6:00pm) before she gets her injection. I will start home testing this weekend but my question is, do I need to be so strict about only feeding her 2 times a day? She is underweight, never been overweight. I'd like her to gain a little even. She always seems hungry a few hours before it's time to feed her. Will I be able to feed her more when I am testing her and can see what her numbers are?
     
  2. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    If she is underweight, you can feed her a little more. And yes, there is a choice, depending on what works best for your cat - twice daily or several times a day. Adding some warm water and making a gravy works sometimes - not only do some cats like the texture better, but they think they are getting more to eat!

    I am glad you are going to home test. Changing the food can cause the levels to dramatically drop - 100 points overnight for our Oliver. Let us know if you need help with testing. My best advice is to warm the ear more than you think it might need, and get 25-27 gauge lancets to start with.
     
  3. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    The main thing is to take up food 2 hours before shot time. Other than that, as Sue said, feeding times can be adjusted to your schedule!
     
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  4. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    I have been feeding her right before her shot!!! Is that not correct?
     
  5. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, test, then feed before the shot. You just don't want them to have food for two hours before the preshot test.
     
  6. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I should have been more clear! It's been a tired day for me. :)

    Yeah, you want the preshot test to not be food influenced, which is why you withhold food during that time. But then, you do feed before shooting so you can be sure they'll have food onboard with the insulin.
     
  7. Carol & Murphy (GA)

    Carol & Murphy (GA) Well-Known Member

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  8. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    Being new to the boards, I don't know about pasting links to different forums...thanks for your help! I already gave her 2 units, like I have been since last Saturday when her vet raised it. I'm so confused about not following her directions and learning to read the BG. She seems fine. I plan on testing her later tonight if you think it's a good idea.
     
  9. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    With a low preshot for a newer diabetic and no data I would be concerned about shooting. Also she has just changed from dry food to a wet food diet so there is no way to know what effect that may be having. Hopefully one of the Prozinc people will be on soon and give their advice.
     
  10. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    So you say you already gave 2 units? And the preshot was 206? Hmmm...any chance of hanging out for awhile and getting some tests in tonight? I think it would be good if you can grab some tests and make sure she isn't dropping too fast.
     
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  11. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I replied on Health but it looks like you already gave 2 units? I am concerned about that dose. Do you have some honey and some high carb food if you need to bring up the levels tonight? Please get an early test - maybe in an hour after the shot to see if she is dropping too fast.
     
  12. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Sue - you will definitely want to monitor her blood glucose tonight; not only will it help ensure that kitty stays in safe #s, but you'll have data that will help you in determining whether or not you'll need to reduce the dose at AMPS time.

    In looking at your SS just now, I notice it has the bright red "AlphaTrak 2 pet-calibrated meter" banner across the top of this spreadsheet: But you're using a Relion human-type meter (Confirm or Micro?), isn't that correct?

    If this is true, we need you to grab the FDMB template designed for the human meter instead. Please let me know ... thanks!
     
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  13. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    And just so you're aware: When using a human-type meter such as the Relion brand, you don't want to see your kitty drop below 50 (that number is anything "less than 69" on a pet-calibrated AlphaTrak meter) - so the difference in BG # is significant when watching for signs of hypoglycemia, which is why it's important that you're using the spreadsheet that's designed for the meter you're actually using. (This also is important so that no one who is helping you gets confused about which meter you're using.)
     
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  14. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    We just tested again. It's been about 1 and half hours since her shot and she is at 163.
     
  15. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    Yes! that's correct...what do I need to do?
     
  16. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Here's the link you need: US Spreadsheet Template

    The other thing you need to do: Go up to the upper right on this thread, click on where your user name appears in the blue bar, then click on "Signature" in the drop down menu. Then you can follow the prompts to create your signature that will appear in every one of your posts on the forum, at the bottom of your post (like mine appears in my posts). You will put in the pertinent info: Diagnosis date, insulin type, type of food,
    any other health problems, etc. AND the brand/model of your glucose meter.
     
  17. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    P.S. And WELCOME to our little "club" - the one that no one really wants to join!;) What is your first name ... & is kitty Sophia Maria?
    (Bat-Bat says hello, too ... gee, they could be twins.)
     
  18. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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  19. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    OK, I created a new SS for human meter. Again, thank you, everyone!!
     
  20. Carol & Murphy (GA)

    Carol & Murphy (GA) Well-Known Member

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  21. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    I'm Susan and kitty is Sophia Maria. Bat Bat could be my Spooky's twin. He was Sophie's 18 year old brother who crossed the rainbow bridge a few years ago.
     
  22. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome, Susan!

    Please test her BG again at +3 and post that number for us, because she has already started dropping at +2, so we're going to want to make sure she's not a "fast diver..."
     
  23. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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  24. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    For sure I will. I'm pretty clumsy at it and she's not too happy with me right now but we will persevere!
     
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  25. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    A few notes about steering, just in case you end up doing that tonight later: It's a bit of a balancing act. You won't really need to start doing that unless she's closing in on that "50" number; you reserve the higher carb and Karo for if/when kitty is BELOW that #. I have found that you can usually steer out & raise the # back up to safer range with the usual low-carb food if you catch kitty around the 60-ish mark, with about 0.75 oz of food. Two things you don't want to do when you see low #s:
    1) Don't panic.
    2) Don't overfeed, as you may need to do several steering "sessions" during the period that you'll be monitoring and raising BG #s.

    As regards to this being a balancing act, over-reacting with too much honey or Karo (or giving when it's not really needed yet) or going for super high-carbs when you're not really quite in a danger zone can result in kitty spiking much higher numbers later that are related to overdoing the carbs. Here's the link to the sheet on hypos : How to treat HYPOS - THEY CAN KILL! Print this Out!!
    Don't let it scare you or anything; it's good to read through it and post on your fridge should you ever need it. Knowledge is power.:)
     
  26. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    The reason I say this is that I've only had to steer Bat-Bat, like ... maybe more times than I care to count.:p
     
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  27. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    When you say that "50" number, are you referring to the actual numbers in the 50s on the meter? I'm just wondering why it's in quotations. I have been reading everything and at this point, I think I understand and then find out something like I'm using the wrong worksheet :facepalm:
     
  28. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    The first few days of this sugar dance are completely overwhelming. There are so many little things to learn. But that's what we are here for - we'll help you figure things out.
     
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  29. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Oh, that was just for emphasis, Susan.
    (I was "quoting" what appears on the respective spreadsheets; I'm a writer, so I just love using punctuation.:p)
    Oh, just ask @Sue and Oliver (GA) how many mistakes I made when I first joined FDMB. Heck, none of us are perfect, Susan - and this little "sugar dance" that we all do is very bewildering in the beginning no matter who you are, so take heart: We've all been right where you are at this very moment, so we're all very sympathetic and we care a great deal about how this goes for you and your sweet kitty.:bighug: (Is that +3 coming up soon? Just nagging ...;))
     
  30. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    Sophie is being so perfectly cat-like
    Yep, it's coming up soon. She's laying here so happy and calm next to me....sigh...
     
  31. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Careful, Robin! Your semicolons are showing. ;)


    Mogs
    .
     
  32. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Oh, Mogs ... you wonderful nut!:kiss:
    (Note to Susan: Mogs is one of the very best at one-liners who I've ever had the pleasure to get to know.:D)
     
  33. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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  34. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    uh oh...106 :nailbiting: is it dropping too fast? I'm not freaking out, I promise.
     
  35. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Let's slow that drop down just a wee bit - which low-carb food are you using? (need to know the can size)
     
  36. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    You're in great hands with Robin in your corner, Susan. :bighug:

    You're doing famously with the home testing. :cat:


    Mogs
    .
     
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  37. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Here's why I want to slow down her drop now: That 106 may be a drop of more than 50% of her pre-shot#; since we only have the +11 to go by, we'll use that BG result as the pre-shot # this time around ... I would prefer you give her about 0.75 oz. of her usual food now, and then check her in about 30 minutes to see if that brings her up just a little bit. Which type(s) of canned do you have on hand? Brand & formula, please.
     
  38. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    Fancy Feast Classic Chicken Feast 3 oz. She had a can and maybe a third of another can. She is acting starved right now.
     
  39. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    It is typical for them to behave like they're starving until you have the diabetes well-controlled; that'll come later.

    Please feed her 1/4 can of the FF now; then test in 30 minutes, ok?
     
  40. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    I have the prescription Hills that the vet sold me the first day and I have some FF gravy
     
  41. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Let's reserve the higher-carb/gravy-type foods for after we've seen where she is with the Fancy Feast when you test 30 minutes after feeding that, ok?*

    *As 106 is not anywhere near a worry-spot. But we do want to help prevent her from bouncing later.
     
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  42. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Just an FYI: Bouncing can occur if a kitty's BG level during the cycle drops more than 50% of the AMPS or PMPS BG # (this is why we test right before every dose, and we avoid feeding anything in the 2-hour window prior to dose time, unless you're dealing with active hypo-event during those hours). When a cat bounces, this means that the blood glucose will spike due to the pancreas perceiving a BG# that is much lower than kitty's body is, as yet, accustomed to (because of having diabetes); the body kind of "panics" and produces extra glucose if the # drops too low, so this is why I'm having you give a little of her regular low-carb FF now ... we're trying to keep her body from over-reacting to a dropping BG #.
     
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  43. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    And just to clarify: A 106 BG on a human meter is just fine; however, because she dropped 57 points in roughly (correct me if I'm wrong here) about 1.5 hrs from the last test, we want to slow that drop down, keep her a little more even.

    Does that make sense?
     
  44. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    OK
     
  45. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    Yes, it does.
     
  46. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    You're doing great with this, Susan. And I'll stick around with you tonight (Ha, I may be steering my Bat-Bat tonight, too - in fact, I have to check her BG# right now.:rolleyes:I'll be back...)
     
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  47. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    Thank you! TGIF :woot:
     
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  48. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    And ... I just had to feed Bat-Bat 0.75 oz FF turkey with giblets because she just tested at 64 @ +3.:banghead: (Just increased her dose a little bit tonight.)
    So I will be checking her BG # not long after you check Sophia's! Pretty crazy coincidence, huh?
     
  49. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    Yes! What's going on here? Sophia is now at 226!
     
  50. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    She kind of konked out. Not in a bad way...she just seems ready to sleep.
    She didn't eat much of what I gave her but I had also given her some pieces of chicken breast meat as treats while testing her.
     
  51. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    How many pieces of chicken breast meat did you give her? (And how was that chicken cooked & in what?) Just for future reference: Only a tiny nibble of something low-carb at test time, if at all. (I give a cuddle or a scritch under the chin and coo nice words at her like, "Oh, what a GOOD girl ..." at Bat-Bat.)
     
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  52. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    It is plain chicken, baked, nothing added. I thought it was ok to give her protein in between meals.
     
  53. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes, when you get a sudden "wonky" # like that from your meter, it's a good idea to do a re-check with a new strip. (It just happens every now and then for any # of reasons: Blood droplet too large/small, etc. or sometimes you just get an oddball strip.)
     
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  54. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    I did a re-check and got 202 :confused:
     
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  55. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    It's not really that it's not okay. But for the time being, as you're trying to find out when her nadir (lowest BG #) occurs in her cycle, you probably want to minimize the snacking in between her AMPS/PMPS meals, and that's part of the reason why I'm discouraging treats at test time. Especially until you know how her body processes the insulin during her cycles, adding bits of food here and there (unless you need to steer because of too-low BG#s) only serves to make it harder for you to truly know how her body is processing that dose. (You might be surprised how much treats/ snacks can impact that BG #.)

    Please understand that I'm not in any way criticizing you; rather, I'm just trying to explain some of the reasoning behind why we do certain things at certain times and avoid certain things at certain times.
     
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  56. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Do you work outside the home during the week, Susan? As what a lot of people who work do is get a timed feeder so that when they're not able to be around to monitor kitty's BG, they can pop a little frozen puck or two of the canned food in it before they go off to work and set it so that it pops open at certain times during kitty's 12-hour cycle. (The Petsafe is a good one from what I've heard @ FDMB; I think most people order those from Amazon).
     
  57. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    (Bat dropped to 57 in the last half hour ... so I just fed her another 1/4 can FF, but this time I pulled out the medium-carb stuff. Which for Bat-Bat is 5% carb FF Chunky formula chicken feast. She's extra carb-sensitive, the little bugger.)
     
  58. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Well, we know she responded to the steering. I'd go ahead and get another test in an hour, just to make sure she doesn't start dropping on you again. (This sometimes happens, so we basically make sure we monitor for the next two hours after the rise occurs, just to be certain it's going to hold.)
     
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  59. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    I'm fine! Don't worry about me feeling criticized, that's silly. I'm learning stuff here to keep my love healthy and alive. I'll do what ever you advise. I trust experience.
     
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  60. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    I do work outside the home during the week. I'd be very interested in checking that out.
     
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  61. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    You've been doing really great with testing first whack out of the bag, btw! That's easily half the battle here in treating your kitty effectively for feline diabetes ... what's a shame is that there are so many vets who don't give much advice about the importance of home-testing of BG levels. I always want to say to those vets: If you were giving a dose of insulin to a human child, would you tell the parent it's perfectly okay to dose him or her with a potent hormone (which is what insulin really is) without first checking the blood glucose # to make certain it's SAFE to do so? I mean, geez!:banghead: (What are some vets thinking??? Apparently they just don't know any better. And before long, you'll probably know more about best practices in treating FD than your own vet does.;))
     
  62. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Lots of people use here them to help keep their cats in safe #s when they can't be home to monitor.:)
     
  63. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    When you get a chance, please put together that signature I'd mentioned earlier, ok?
    And I'm curious: When was your kitty first diagnosed, and what was the blood glucose # the vet got at that time?
     
  64. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    I'll be hanging around at least until we get your next BG test result for Sophia tonight. (Ha, I may be up later than I planned if my Bat-Bat's #s don't start rising soon ...:rolleyes:)
    Here is the link to our guidelines for dosing/using ProZinc:
    Protocol for ProZinc/PZI
     
  65. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Let me know what you get for that +5 BG # ... if it's a good one, you'll probably be ok for the balance of the night.

    And then you'll want to post your Sophia's AM pre-shot BG # on a new ProZinc thread tomorrow; be sure to ask for some guidance re: her dose based on the # you're seeing then (smart folk like Bobbie, Rachel - both on the east coast - and Sue in CO, etc. are usually up & about way before I am;)).
     
  66. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Good morning Susan, how's Sophia doing? Love the new avatar, she's a beauty!
     
  67. Carol & Murphy (GA)

    Carol & Murphy (GA) Well-Known Member

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    this thread is something All those black cat avatars! Sharon, you should feel right at home :smuggrin:
     
  68. ssblackcat Sophia & Susan

    ssblackcat Sophia & Susan Member

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    I've post a new thread and could use some advise.
     
  69. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Ain't it grand! ;)


    Mogs
    .
     
  70. Carol & Murphy (GA)

    Carol & Murphy (GA) Well-Known Member

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    LOL :D
     
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