Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Please?

I started posting on here a few months ago. My cat, Wendell, had recently been diagnosed with feline diabetes.
It has not been going well since then.
He refused to eat two different types of low-carb dry food.
He doesn't like wet food but will eat it on occasion.

His vet thinks he has feline neuropathy. He cries almost non-stop, especially at night. He can't jump. He is miserable. I am miserable. On top of my regular issues, I haven't had a decent night's sleep in weeks.

His vet also said he should stay on his own food till he's regulated. He's taking 3 units of lantus 2x a day. the few times I've been able to take his blood, his sugar has been 300+ an hour after his dose. (I've never been able to get blood during the hours when the glucose is supposed to be the lowest.)

I am overwhelmed. My brain doesn't work so well to begin with, and I'm not handling this well for him.
Last week I made the decision to put him down, only to be convinced to give it one more shot.

His vet wants to check his blood pressure. I think that's misguided and not at all the source of his issues.

I would like to give this one more try. I bought a new Relion glucometer that will hopefully be easier to use and freak him out less. (He was afraid of the noise our accu touch made.)

I need a plan. I suck at plans. Can someone suggest one?

I don't really trust the vet. I asked about B12 for his neuropathy and she acted like I was crazy. She said B12 was for feline diarrhea. I am a $40 cab ride away from the vet, and I'm almost out of money. For these 3 reasons, I want to stay away from the vet as much as possible.

I am currently doing the worst thing possible: leaving him his regular, highish-carb food out during the day. I'm so afraid he's going to go hypo on me. I can't really take a ton of time from work.

I can take a 4-day weekend and use it to try switch him to low-carb or wet food. Is that enough time?

I don't live near my friends or family and there's no one to check on him during the day.

And finally,
At this point, would I be awful for putting him to sleep? He's obviously in pain and I'm not sure this is all worth it if it means him being in pain one day longer.

Thanks for any help.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Bless your heart. I am a newbie and it really is an emotional roller coaster. It's draining on many levels and so frustrating.

I can't offer any specific advice because I'm new at this too. Someone experieinced will be along shortly, I'm sure.

But do hang in there. Hugs and purrs being sent your way.

-Dan

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Where do you live? Maybe we have a member nearby.

It is completely overwhelming - we were all overwhelmed at first.

A Plan. Let's take one step at a time.

Let's get him eating. Is there anything he really likes? Cooked chicken? tuna? deli meat? If so, you might put some of that on top of his food. They sometimes like babyfood when they are punky. Get the Beechnut brand, without any spices - meat flavors. You can also try putting parmesan cheese or tuna juice on top. And though it sounds silly, sometimes if you have them eat off your fingers, they will get interested in the food again.


You can buy the B12 at a health food store. (did you get the info on the right kind?). His neuropathy will also improve when he is more regulated and you are working on that.

Hang in there. Come here and whine and *****. We understand, we comiserate, we get it. We'll help you any way we can. You're part of our family now and we take care of family,
You are doing the right stuff. You're testing him and trying to get him to eat the right food. He's on a good insulin. Please don't beat yourself up. This is HARD!

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

I found your first post from back in April 2013. http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?t=93285 for some background.

I see that you work in Manhattan and live in New Jersey. We have several members in New Jersey but we need to know what city you live in.

Wendell, age 11, dx date 4/13/13. Lantus insulin. Started at 2U, BID. Subject to UTI's.
Prefers dry food, was on Purina Healthy Weight dry cat food. Not sure what food is being fed now.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

He loves the freeze-dried cat treats I found for him. The only ingredient is chicken (or fish).

But then I come back to, if I have him eating the low-carb stuff, and I'm giving him insulin, how do I not come home to a dead hypoglycemic cat?

Seriously, I need someone to treat me like a 3-year-old and explain what I should be doing.

I live in Guttenberg, NJ. Never heard of it? Neither has anyone else who lives anywhere other than Guttenberg, NJ. It's in upper Hudson county, right across the river (but a 45-minute bus ride) from Manhattan. It's mostly commuters and/or people who don't speak much English. I commute to SOHO during the week. I'm gone from about 9 am to 8 pm.

Thanks.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Bless your heart! I know how you feel on a lot of levels! It is a lot to handle at once. Ive had a sugar cat (diabetic) for a year and a half but Im still new to a lot of things and would not want to steer you wrong. Sue and Oliver and Deb and Wink have a lot of experience and will help guide you! You could PM them if you want however Im sure they will be along soon to advise you. They have helped me greatly as many others have as well. You will find that you will get a lot more knowledge from here than anywhere else! If not for this website I dont think my cat would be here with me today!! Everything you need to know and do you can get help with right here. Dont give up! There is hope for you and your cat. First things first - baby steps. First thing I know that you are going to need to do is get your cat on some wet low carb food. You cant do anything until you can get him to eat. A lot of cats dont even need insulin after they get wet. Yours may be one of those lucky cats!! Im lucky that my cat likes Fancy Fest but you have to feed Fancy Feast pate. I dont know how to attach a link however someone will be able to attach a link to a list of foods that are low carb. You could also try cooking him a little chicken. Most cats really like chicken and I buy it at the grocery store when its on sale and I cook a package at a time and put it in a bowl in the fridge. My cat dont like it cold so I warm it up a bit in the microwave. I use the cooked chicken for treats also! Most picky eater like the chicken and I find that is is actually cost less than buying treats and goes a long way. I even use the chicken juice to put on some of the food if she gets picky on me. Others will give you more ideas.
Also, your cat does need that B-12 even if the vet dont think so. Many here will tell you that it has helped their cats!! Anyway, take a deep breath, relax- folks here can help!!
Also, welcome to the best place you and your cat can be.
PM me if you just need to talk - we all need talked off the ledge every once in a while!!
Terri

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

What food are you feeding now? List the brands and type of food please.

ETA: Which freeze dried cat treats does Wendell love?

I know you have tried to switch from dry to wet before. Let's put any food change on hold for the moment.

Let's get him eating well first.

How much does Wendell eat in a day?

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Hi neighbor! I live in West New York, so I'm familiar with Guttenberg.

I'm new here myself and still working on figuring this whole thing out. It DOES get easier, thanks to all the good advice I've gotten here. I can totally relate to the long hours and commute. I leave around 7:45 most mornings and try to get home by 6:15 or so. It's definitely been hard on my social life. I give myself one weeknight each week to stay in the city late and then try and make sure I'm home at shot time the rest of the week. It helps to give myself a night to myself sometimes. It's so hard because it's just not feasible to run home and then get back to the city for dinner!

I do use a timed feeder, and on days when Nikki is low and I give her shot, I'll over compensate and leave a small amount of frozen food in her feeder for a mid-day feeding. So far it's worked out ok. Due to health issues she's on a high carb food, but I'm working on getting her transitioned to something lower carb. It's going to take a couple more weeks though I think.

Good luck! I know the more experienced folks here will be able to help you put a plan together.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Much of my mail is addressed to West New York, because shipping bots don't know Guttenberg even exists. (The town is literally four blocks long.)

Wendell is on Purina Healthy Weight. I'm ashamed to say this, but he free-eats it. Probably more than a cup a day. Sometimes I use it to shut him up. I know it's awful, but so is not sleeping.

He absolutely hated the Purina diabetic food, so I bought the Wellness Core that was recommended to me. He's a little more open to that.

I also have to get much better at testing. One problem is, he's squirmy, and I suck at discipline. I also have trouble getting blood--it's either nothing, or it's a splatterfest. The vet discouraged using a lancet pen, so I've been going at it freehand. Should I try a pen? Also, what size lancet should I be using?

Also, he has tried to eat the lancet. That's not really something I need help with. That's just an example of how weird my cat is.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Also, I guess I should expand on my "limitations":

I have severe OCD, pretty bad depression, and ADD. I'm not stupid, but my brain is often less than functional. (I take drugs. They don't work all that well.) I spend a lot of my time living in a haze--especially at times of stress. This in turn makes me less able to help my cat, which makes him worse, which makes me think about putting him to sleep, which makes me feel like a failure, which makes me want to help my cat. . .it's an exhausting cycle, and I'm not getting anything done.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Perhaps taking this one step at a time would be helpful.

Rather than trying to change the diet, learn to home test and figure out proper dosing all at once, do you think you would do well if you concentrate on just one item right now?

My suggestion would be to concentrate on learning to home test. Once you get that down, you could think about a diet change but don't pressure yourself, just go after that one goal first.

We may be able to find someone near enough to where you are in New Jersey who can show you in person.

Personally I prefer to test with a lancet, not free hand.

One thing I would mention without trying to overwhelm you; if you do give B12 for neuropathy you want MethylB12, not regular B12. (Methylcobolamin)

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Thanks, I have the kind of B12 that's labeled for cats.
My concern with 1 step at a time is my baby is in pain. I know it's my fault for being so passive lately, but I need as short a timeline as possible or I don't see the point in continuing to let him suffer.

I'm also really concerned my neighbors are going to start complaining. I can hear their loud music, so I'm worried they can hear my loud cat. And he can go for hours during the night.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Thank you for telling us about your limitations. Knowing about the ADD helps us to know to give you information more simply and wait for a reply. Too many people can confuse the situation.

1. Food: He is eating Purina Healthy Weight, 1 cup + per day.

He likes the Wellness Core dry low carb a little bit.

I'd like to get you to slowly change him over from the Purina Healthy Weight food. We are going to try to do this food change over a week timeframe. Would you please try this for me and let me know every day how it is working for you.

There are 8 tablespoons (T) in a cup.
Day 1 - 7 T Purina Healthy Weight, 1 T Wellness Core
Day 2 - 6 T Purina Healthy Weight, 2 T Wellness Core
Day 3 - 5 T Purina Healthy Weight, 3 T Wellness Core
Day 4 - 4 T Purina Healthy Weight, 4 T Wellness Core
Day 5 - 3 T Purina Healthy Weight, 5 T Wellness Core
Day 6 - 2 T Purina Healthy Weight, 6 T Wellness Core
Day 7 - 1 T Purina Healthy Weight, 7 T Wellness Core
Day 8 - 8 T Wellness Core

2. You will need to cut the insulin dose in half during this food changeover. In fact, I would cut it to 1U , twice a day for now.

Do you understand?

ETA: Please give me a current weight on Wendell.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Yes, I understand. Like I said, not stupid, just. . . cloudy.
Thanks so much for this.

And should I feed him half in the morning and half at night? And leave out whatever he doesn't eat in the morning for the rest of the day?

What about the treats? Since they're no-carb, can he have them? This is what I've been giving him: http://www.drugstore.com/three-dog-bakery-we-pity-the-kitties-cat-treat-alaskan-salmon/qxp71418

Wendell is a touch under 14 pounds. He's a big boy to begin with; the vet said he could stand to lose 1-2 pounds.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Would you please tell me your name? I know your cats' name is Wendell but I don't think you ever told us your name.

We are trying to work with that 'cloudy' feeling you have. Perhaps uncertainty would be a better word, about what to change and how to change things.

Ok, that was step one of the management plan. Food.

1. Food.
Try new feeding plan.
Those treats are pure meat, so they are fine to use.
Split food into two equal portions. Put half down in the morning, half down in the evening.
Leave food out all day long, except the 2 hours before you do your pre-shot blood glucose testing. (If possible)

Free feeding is fine with diabetic kitties.
How much to feed exactly is still to be determined. One cup may not be enough. Let me go do some calculations and I'll get back to you.

Please tell me exactly which Wellness Core food you bought, grain free, flavor, color of bag, etc. Was it this one? .

2. Step two will be home testing. We're trying to find someone that lives close enough to come over for a home visit. Please bear with us while we work on that. If there isn't any one, we will teach you step by step to home test here.

Please describe for me, your home testing process. Looking for ways to make this work better for you and Wendell

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

I am Carli.

I believe I do have the original formula; the others, as I recall, had too many (or a vague number of) carbs.

Honestly, my testing so far has been, "Let's try to test the cat's blood sugar again." No rhyme nor reason to the timing.

I knew about testing 4-6 hours after giving the shot but was fuzzy on when to test before giving the shot.

Thanks again.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Wait, aren't there 16 tablespoons in a cup?

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Hi Carli. I'm Deb. Wink is my foster kitty. My avatar is a picture of him, begging for more food. ;-)

Oops, you're right. I was thinking ounces. Here is the food in the correct amounts.

There are 16 tablespoons (T) in a cup.
Day 1 - 14 T Purina Healthy Weight, 2 T Wellness Core
Day 2 - 12 T Purina Healthy Weight, 4 T Wellness Core
Day 3 - 10 T Purina Healthy Weight, 6 T Wellness Core
Day 4 - 8 T Purina Healthy Weight, 8 T Wellness Core
Day 5 - 6 T Purina Healthy Weight, 10 T Wellness Core
Day 6 - 4 T Purina Healthy Weight, 12 T Wellness Core
Day 7 - 2 T Purina Healthy Weight, 14 T Wellness Core
Day 8 - 16 T Wellness Core
[/quote]

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Please double check on what the bag says and get back to me. I'm guessing you may be at work and can't check right now.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Wendell weighs 14 pounds, 14 times 15 calories per pound = 210 + 70 = 280 calories per day

Diabetic cats with unregulated BG numbers are in need of more food because their bodies can not process the food correctly. Up to 50% more per day.

280 + 50% = 420 calories per day.

Purina Healthy Weight has 384 cals/cup
Wellness Core Original has 502 cals/cup More calories than he needs but we will adjust later. Let's get the food change in place.

So my original amounts stand for now.
There are 16 tablespoons (T) in a cup.
Day 1 - 14 T Purina Healthy Weight, 2 T Wellness Core
Day 2 - 12 T Purina Healthy Weight, 4 T Wellness Core
Day 3 - 10 T Purina Healthy Weight, 6 T Wellness Core
Day 4 - 8 T Purina Healthy Weight, 8 T Wellness Core
Day 5 - 6 T Purina Healthy Weight, 10 T Wellness Core
Day 6 - 4 T Purina Healthy Weight, 12 T Wellness Core
Day 7 - 2 T Purina Healthy Weight, 14 T Wellness Core
Day 8 - 16 T Wellness Core

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Part two of the plan - home testing. Lots of questions for you here. Please bear with me.

Are you having more difficulties with the how to test or the when to test?
What size lancets are you using? If you don't know, you can tell me the brand and I can look it up.
What meter are you using for testing?
How are you warming his ear to get the blood flowing?
Are you getting a blood drop but it is too small?
Do you use the lancing pen or do you free hand the lancet?


Is Wendell easy to test? hard to test? does he sit for you or run away?
Are you using those salmon treats to tempt him and train him to associate testing with a treat?

Do you have a favorite testing spot or do you test him wherever he is?
Are you at his level or is he up on a counter, or cat tree, or sofa? Many cats like being elevated a bit, not being trapped and 'loomed over'.

When to test, 4 tests a day.

1. every pre-shot Why? This is to find out if the BG is high enough to shoot. We do not recommend shooting below 200 until you have more test data and know how your cat will react. Test, feed, shoot is the sequence of events. You want to do this in about a 15-20 minute window if you can. It takes time to get a routine. Some people even give the insulin while their cat eats.
2. +5 to +7 Why? To find the nadir or lowest point in the cycle. Lantus dosing changes are based on this number, not the pre-shot numbers.
3. before bed This is to see how low he is at night. If too low, he may need some additional food and management to keep the numbers up and safe.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Hi Carli,
I'm glad you came and posted on the board.
I am hopeful that someone near by is able to come and help you hands on. It can really make a difference.
If you focus on just on testing for now, will that help ?

I'll be in touch. Hang in there.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Carli,

There is a lot of information coming your way today. You started your thread by saying you were overwhelmed. If there is too much coming too quickly please feel free to ask any of us to slow down.

I know that learning to live with a diabetic kitty is hard. I remember so many tears of my own when I thought my sweet little man was suffering at my hand, but given time and patience things get easier.

Ask lots of questions and definitely slow things down if you need to.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Both. I'm not accustomed to extracting blood from a cat's ear. But I think if I can get myself to practice, I can figure this out.

Bayer Microlets (I got the colorful ones so I wouldn't lose them. I'm not sure if they come in different sizes; you're right that I'm at work.)

Accu-Chek Compact. Huge mistake. Very expensive, the noise terrifies him, it's hard to hold to his ear, and it's a pain to wait for the lancet to shoot out. I just bought a Relion Micro from Walmart but haven't tested it yet.

Massage. I can't see him tolerating the rice bag to the ear technique.

Most of the time, yes, too small. Last week I had a gusher.
Free hand the lancet

He doesn't usually run away but he is curious and fussy. He wants to smell/taste the lancet. He moves his head a lot.

Yes, but he gets those treats at other times, too. Should I have a dedicated treat for testing time? Maybe a real shrimp?

He is almost always on the bed. That's where I test him.

We are almost always on the bed together or he's in one of two chairs or a Rubbermaid container.

When I test pre-shot, does it have to be on an empty stomach? I don't get home till 8, and if I leave a little food out for him, that means we can't test/eat/shoot till 10.

Also, +5 to +7 won't be an option every day as, again, I have work. If I do this over a weekend during the day, and then in the middle of the night every night, will that suffice?

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Thanks. This is all fine, as the responses seem custom-fit for Wendell's and my needs. The sheer amount of information and number of choices to make is what overwhelmed me.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Glad to see this. The folks on FDMB always do a wonderful job so I'm glad that you are getting such great help.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Carli- what helped with us is that when we got the blood drop I scooped it onto my fingernail and pressed the hole in two other fingers for 3-5 seconds to stop the bleeding.

THEN I get out my strip (or you can get it out ahead of time and set it aside) and put it in the meter and tested it off the blood on my fingernail. My Sneakers hated the sound of the meter so close to her head and would jerk unexpectedly.

Try that and it might help.

Heather

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Carli, Thank you so much for all those answers I asked on home testing.

We are still developing this plan for Wendell. You are helping me to build and develop and modify this plan with your feedback. We are concentrating on the Home Testing process right now. It may take a day or two to develop the plan for all the different steps, insulin dose, food plan, home testing, neuropathy help, weight loss, etc.

Let me know when you have had enough for one day. We've been throwing tons of information at you all day. I'll try to recap some of this later.

First, let me answer a couple of questions that you had.

NO. Pre-shot test is ideal on an empty stomach. With your work schedule, that is not possible. We will simply take the fact that the pre-shot evening test may have some food influence into account, when we advise you on shooting a number under 200. I'd rather make the schedule as close to 12/12 as possible, but think you may need to leave for work before 8 am. We may need to do a 11/13 schedule for you or a 10/14 schedule.

What time do you leave for work?

Some of this testing is flexible. I did not think you would be able to get the mid cycle tests (+5-+7) in during the work week. Weekends, hopefully you will be able to get some more of those morning mid-cycle tests. If you can do middle of the night +5 to +7, that would be good. You will not have to do this every night. At least not for long. We are in the data gathering stage. More test data at this stage is helpful.

Home testing. Be sure to have all your supplies out and ready. Wash and dry your hands thoroughly.
1. Massage ears to get the blood flowing. You may want to shave a tiny patch on the ears with a safety razor so you can see the area better. This helps when you are first starting out. Massage until you can see the vein raised up just a bit, enlarged from the massage.
2. Shine a flashlight from the underside of the ear. You should be able to see the vein, like in this diagram.
3. You are aiming for that area near the tip of the ear, where the capillaries are, labeled "sweet spot". Between the vein and the edge of the ear.
4. Hold the lancet at a 45 degree angle.
5. Place a folded up piece of tissue or cotton ball behind the ear to give you something to poke against and protect your finger.
6. Hold on to the ear with one hand, firmly poke the ear with the lancet in the other hand, two pokes really close together. Do not flinch after your first poke.
7. Milk the ear. by placing your thumb lower down on the ear, you can push the blood up along the vein to get the blood drop to form.
8. Put the test strip to the ear at an angle, about 45 degrees, to sip up the blood or place the drop of blood on your fingernail and sip the blood from your fingernail.
9. Apply pressure to the poke spot for 20-30 seconds to prevent bruising.
10.Read the number on the screen of your meter and write it down in your notebook or log.
11. Give Wendell a treat for being so good.

If you can't get blood after three tries, give it a break. Come back in 30 minutes and try again.

This takes practice and the more you do it, the better you will get. Also, the cats ears will start to bleed better as you test more. This phenomenon is called angiogenesis, where new capillaries will form in the ear.

When you poked and got a 'gusher' you probably hit the vein. If you absolutely have to get a drop of blood, like during a hypo, go for the vein.

You may want to get a box of lancets labeled 'For Alternate Site Testing" These will be 25-26 gauge and have a slightly larger pin for pricking. the Microlets you are using are 28 gauge. Not bad, but the larger gauge alternate site lancets can help to get blood when you are starting out. Since you are free handing the lancet, you can buy any box any brand labeled for alternate site testing.

The Relion Micro is a good meter and only needs a tiny drop of blood, 0.3 microliters. That's about the size of a head of a dressmakers pin.

For now, what if you tried only give him the treats when you are testing or giving a shot. Would that be ok? Real shrimp is an excellent no carb treat also.

Sounds like the bed is where he feels comfortable. Let's keep that as his main testing spot.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Thanks for all the help today. The Wellness Core I have is the original formula.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Hi Carli--

I've been there and done that It does get easier Is Wendell eating better now? Here's a trick that might help:

Get a few piece of dry food or treats, put them in a baggie and crush them with a rolling pen.
Pop open a can of low carb wet food and sprinkle the crushed food on top--this has worked for me in the past.

There's always the Young Again Zero Carb Catfood--some cat's love it (its dry)--my non-diabetic cats love it (though they eat way more canned than dry)--go nuts for it. I'm not clear on your feeding plan (so the members--please correct if Wendell is now eating the Core). The food is pricey, though. You can request a free sample by emailing the company.

If I can help in anyway--just ask.
I hope you're feeling better today

Kat (& Gobbles)

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

I let my cats free feed low carb canned food all day / all night. So sometimes, my kitty Tiggy is eating before I test him - just recognize that the BG number might be a little higher because of the food and don't worry about it.

Since ideally we adjust the dose based on the nadir or lowest part of the day - usually 5 to 7 hours after the shot but could be later or earlier ("ECID" = every cat is different), the exact numbers at shot time are information only - not life altering.

The neuropathy will be helped by getting the blood sugar under control in addition to Methyl B12. Both take some time to work.

Diabetes in itself shouldn't be really painful - maybe something else is going on? One of my kitties has arthritis that makes her back sore and she doesn't jump as much as she used to.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Hi Carli,

How are you doing today?

Did you get to take any BG (blood glucose) readings? How did it go?

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Did not get bc last night; home late from work, only enough energy to stab the kitty and do treats. . . if we were as good at everything else as we are at shot time, we'd be killing this diabetes. Will try in earnest tonight. Realized my needles to not have 1/2 marks. . . should I estimate distance between whole units?

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Estimation is Ok.
You might find it helpful to take a notecard, and mark what you're going to use to compare against successive doses. Then it will be consistent.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Good idea. I'll bring a Sharpie home with me tonight.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Even a fineline Sharpie is likely to be too thick. I'd use the thinnest, finepoint gel pen I could find.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

I did it! I got a blood sample! I got home from work after 8 and went right to it. HE had some food out during the day. . . not sure when he last ate.
With the Relion Micro, he read 231 pre-dinner (not sure what he ate during the day, but it doesn't look like much). That's the lowest I've ever tested him.
Am going to give him his insulin soon and if we're up at 3 a.m. (we probably will be) I might attempt another test if he's not howling too badly.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Hooray!!! Welcome to the Vampire Club (Y' know, we need a fanged smiley!!!)

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Great job with the blood test! That part definitely gets easier with more practice. Good luck tonight!

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

CONGRATULATIONS! I just finished reading your story and saw you got a successful test. Just wanted to say hi, welcome and GOOD job!

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

so hapoy you are here!! Deb and Jenn are great advice givers, helped tremendously with Garth. I am an old timer , but back with my rescue Sonnie, everyone has given you great advice, I dont have anything to add. but just "bteath" all will fall in place, one step at a time, you will sleep again, and you will have your life back I promise.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Congratulations ! I look forward to seeing those "yowling" numbers. I'll be back in a couple hours or so to see if you were up and got that number.
My eyes are crossing a bit reading through the thread. Did you lower his dose ? Or still giving 3u ?
Inquiring minds want to know ! ;-)

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Hi Carli!

How are you doing today? I see you got a successful test last night. It takes time to get good at it. Hang in there. We are all here to give you the support you need. I know we can get Wendell feeling better and help you manage the stress.

I'd like to recap the plan that is in place so far.

1.We have a food plan, transition slowly to a lower carb dry food.
2.You will drop the insulin dose while doing this food change over.
3. Home testing has been started.

How are things going with these 3 steps so far?
Is he eating well?
Does he leave a little food in the dish or is he so hungry he gobbles it down all at once?
Is there a change in his behavior at night, now that you are leaving some food out overnight?
How much insulin are you giving him?

AMPS = morning pre-shot test
PMPS = evening pre-shot test.
Because we all live in different time zones we count hours since the pre-shot tests in + hours like this:
+2 = 2 hours after pre-shot test, +4 = 4 hours after pre=shot test, +6 = 6 hours after pre-shot test.

Would you please list some numbers for us, any BG (blood glucose) numbers that you have gotten, replacing the ??? with your actual values. If you were unsuccessful getting a test, put N/A. Like this:

6/11 PMPS N/A
6/12 PMPS 231 +6 ???
6/13 AMPS N/A +2 ??? PMPS ??? +2 ??? +5 ???

Would you please do that for me? And let me know how much insulin you gave with each shot. Thank you.

Today's mini lesson: Do not shoot insulin if Wendell's BG is under 200. Do not feed yet if possible. Wait 30 minutes and take another BG reading. Post on here to ask for help while you are waiting. Let people know this is your first time with such a low reading and you are not sure what to do. We will walk you through it. This is a precautionary measure, not a panic situation. I was very nervous the first time I got a low number. The best thing that I could do was to take several slow deep breaths. It helps to calm me down. Try that when you are nervous about anything new in this sugardance you are doing with your loving cat Wendell.

Hope you are having a good day at work. Stay dry, looks like we are getting more rain here in the northeast US.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

YAYYYYY!!! for your first successful test !!

Oh I soooo know that feeling...first it's the giant sigh of relief, then it's the big beam of accomplishment, then it's serious loven on your kitty !! And ooooh so many treats hee hee

Next think you know, you'll be doing it with your eyes half closed...like I can now :lol:

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Great job!!! Testing can be tricky at first depending on the cat but its so important to help keep your cat safe and better to get him regulated... and you have made an important first step!!

we usually recommend 4 tests a day - always always before every shot and then one mid cycle and another before bed. That data will give us enough to go on to see if he needs a dose change.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Hi, All,
So yesterday I took a sick day (just feeling under the weather, and the weather was pretty gross to begin with). I took the opportunity to spy on the cat.
I used to just pour cat food into a bowl without really measuring it, then "tap it off" when it got low. Yesterday I measured out half the food he was supposed to get for the day. . . and it took him till 5 this morning to eat it.

So he's actually eating 1/2 a cup of food in 24 hours, when the serving recommendation for a cat his size is 3/4 cup. I don't know what to do from here, food-wise. He's eating a lot less than I thought he was. Should I be concerned, and should I just cut in half the recommendation that was made to me earlier in the week?


Whenever the freeze-dried treats came out, though, he was all over it. Still, I don't think he ate enough

He did wander around crying his head off at times, and spent quite a bit of the day under the bed. He also spent some quality time purring in my lap.

He did not get his shot yesterday morning--I overslept--so no glucose testing till right before his dinner/shot at night. He was at 324 with no morning insulin, which makes me think that the 3 units prescribed to him is too much.

He still seems very unhappy.

Thanks for checking in with us. I plan to do 4x day testing this weekend.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

What did he used to eat before all this happened? The purina healthy weight?

Is he losing weight right now? weigh him once every week or two and see. If not I wouldnt worry about the amount he eats.

If he loves freeze dried chicken, how does he feel about cooked or raw chicken?

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

He's been eating the Purina Healthy Weight for a year or so. I never really measured how much he ate, as he refused to eat food at the bottom of the bowl. If he could see the bottom, that meant it was time for a refill.
I haven't weighed him but the last time we were at the vet he'd lost a tad. I'll weigh him tonight.

He does love cooked chicken. I do not like having to handle raw chicken but I'll do it for him. Besides, he's really a seafood guy. If I'd given him tuna last night he probably would have inhaled it, but I really wanted to see how much of his regular food he was eating. He ate 4 large cooked shrimp earlier this week.

But I've literally never seen him as excited about any food as his freeze-dried treats.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Let us know how his weight is.. maybe it not an issue.

You could try crumbling the freeze dried on top of a fish fancy feast pate or chicken pate?

Heres food recipes: http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood

Wendy

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Wendy,
That sounds good but we're trying to stick to one food plan at a time, and right now, that's switching him from Cat Chow to Wellness. I just have to adjust the numbers because he eats a lot less than I thought. (I'm not sure how filling those freeze-dried treats are. He could just be eating too many of those.)

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

My Tiggy inhales those too and it doesnt affect his appetite but he is a pig

maybe crumble the chicken on top (usually there is powder in the bottom of the bag anyway) or mix it up with the wellness? Might speed up the transition!!

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

And remember, as you transition the food, the insulin dose needs to be dropped to avoid a hypo.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

:RAHCAT :RAHCAT dancing_cat dancing_cat dancing_cat cat_pet_icon
GREAT job on the testing! Huge high five to you!!

The people in this community are amazing. So compassionate and helpful. I know they will help you through this. If I lived nearby, I would help you learn to get the testing down. That is something I am definitely very good at and it came easy to me. Maybe I should have been a phlebotomist instead of a social worker :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

What I'm concerned about today (because there can't be a single rotation of the Earth without a new concern) is that he's eating much less than the recommended amount of Cat Chow for a cat his age, and that just isn't like him. Is loss of appetite a typical symptom of diabetes?

I know this can mean Ketones. I have Ketone sticks and will hopefully test him for Ketones tonight, but thus far his urine's been negative.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Usually they eat more. But I have two with diabetes. One ate more when not regulated and the other ate less. Its not so much ketones - although its good to test - but the fact they dont feel well so dont want to eat as much. But I would judge by kittys weight - not the amount they eat since every cat is different in terms of metabolism and activity level etc.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Thanks! I hate that he's not feeling well. . . he usually IS a little piggy, and he's still a total vacuum cleaner when the freeze-dried treats come out.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Hi Carli,
Are you judging what he *should* eat by what the bag says ? or by calculating his needs ?
I have found that cat food labels are notoriously off when it comes to need to feed amounts. He may be eating better than you think based on that.

An adult cat needs 15-25 calories per pound of ideal weight .

You judge that 15-25 range by how active he is, and if he has any other special needs or breed requirements.

If you post his weight I will be happy to help you calculate his food intake needs. We can even calculate the range, so it gives some wiggle room.

Do you have his weight written down from a recent vet visit?
If not, do you have a bathroom scale to weigh him at home ? You get on alone and then again holding him and subtract the difference. I'm sure you already knew that or could figure it out. No insult meant, I just thought that that since you are overwhelmed having it all written out might help.
It would be a good thing to write the weight in a notebook, so you can keep track of it over time.

Is he over or underweight or just about right ?

I have some a bag of wellness here so I can look at the calories per cup.

Also wondering if Wendall was a grazers w/ his old food too ? Or was he previously a scarfer ?

I'll check back to see what you come up with. Or if I'm not here, I'm sure someone else will jump in.

Good luck w/ testing this weekend !

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Hi,
Wendell is 14 pounds and is and always has been a grazer.
I guess I just never took notice of how much of his food h was eating.
I do have a scale and I remember his weight from last time at the vet's: 14.1 pounds. He's lost a couple of ounces since his diagnosis. The vet considers him overweight but not grossly so.

Deb and Wink actually worked up what I think is a decent plan for us, and I don't want to put you to any trouble, so we're going to stick with this and maybe change the amount (but not the ratio of old food to new food) a little bit.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

Great then if he isn't losing weight consistently I wouldn't worry to much. Maybe weigh him every couple of weeks and see..and adjust accordingly..

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

How is it going with the food plan I gave you? Where are you in the ratios of old food to new?

I'm also curious to know what the insulin dose is right now?

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

We are still on day 2. . . 6T of his food, 2T of the Wellness, 2x a day. He really doesn't want it, but he's coming around.
Was able to do a 4-hour test on him today and he was around 230. . . so we have a ways to go.
I've been giving him 2 units 2x a day of Lantus instead of the 3 the vet told me to give him.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

If he is slow to accept the new food plan, you can spread the change out over more days.

Is he picking around the Wellness and only eating the old food? Or is he eating both?

We certainly don't want him on 3U of insulin while you are changing the food over. You will need to drop the insulin dose again as he eats more of the low carb Wellness and less of the high carb old food.

Keep checking those BG numbers when you can.

 

Re: Feeling Lost. Giving it 1 last try. Recommendations Plea

One change at a time is great. That way you know what, if any thing, is changed by that single change. make sense?

You are doing well. If he is eating something I wouldn't change until you have the food all changed. Just keep an eye on the ketones with the lower food intake.