Dose advice needed, stalling

First of all, thank you everyone who has offered their advice, encouragement, etc. Even if you didn't know it, simply researching through the board has give me alot of knowledge & confidence.

So last night, we put the dry food away & left only wet food out. Ernie was pretty energetic this morning, & was eating as soon as we got out of bed together. I was planning to grab a preshot after he finished eating, then clean the bowls out & put fresh food down, but he was energetic enough that he wasn't in the mood to cooperate this morning! (Anyone else been there...LOL)

Here is where I went wrong, I gave him his dose without a pre-shot. My thought was that looking at his SS, you will see he has been hovering in the 400's at preshot. So, my mentality was that he needs the shot & I can't skip it because of not having a pre-shot. I know, WRONG ANSWER & lesson learned. The other reason I did, was I knew we were having a lazy day at home & would be with him literally all day. Through the day he stayed energetic, playing, cuddling, & even pouncing on his sisters a couple of times! I was not able to get any post-shot numbers either & after a couple of attempts, I decided I would leave him alone since I stuck him a fair amount yesterday & he was doing so good today. MISTAKE #2! We just chose to keep the wet food out all day & keep the dry food hidden.

However, we fast forward to 2 hours before dinner time & I put the bowls away. I grabbed a pre-shot & his is at 106! This is the lowest number we have seen since his DX. My wife & I both squeezed him, kissed him, & then gave him his dinner. I know at that number, he is too low to shoot. So, I will retest him in about an hour & see where that # is at then.


So, I learned, I will NOT shoot without knowing the pre-shot number. I also learned that it looks like wet food can seriously plummet a number. So, we are going to have to watch the dosing & may have to move down to 0.5 if his numbers call for it. Thank you to those who hammered the point him that wet food is the nectar of the feline gods!

 

Next time you get a PS number you're not comfortable shooting, stall, DON'T feed, and test again in about 20-30 minutes....Use that time to post and ask for help. Put something like "Stalling, dose advice needed" in your subject line

Usually if we get a low PS, we want to try to stall for a little while and when the numbers are obviously coming up (without food) go ahead and shoot. Of course your ability to stall also takes into account that you can change your shot schedule too since you won't want to shoot again for 12 hours. If you get off schedule, you can move your shot times back 15 minutes per cycle though

Since you're using Vetsulin, I wouldn't have shot that 106 either!!

Maybe Ernie will be one of the lucky kitties that can be diet controlled! As you've seen, it makes a HUGE difference what we feed our kitties!! (Sure would be nice if our vets and pet food manufacturers would know a lot more about feline nutrition!)

It's nice to hear that he's had an active and playful day too...makes a big difference when they feel better!

 

Thank you for the suggestions. I appreciate it. So, let me wrap my mind around this. We want his numbers going up on their own without food before feeding & shooting. I guess I thought since it was low, we would put the food back out, let him eat if he want it & then retest so we a see if his numbers shot up with food.

I guess I am confused.

So now, 2+ after his PMPS of 106, and eating a good dinner portion, as well as a few grazing nibbles, he is now at 146. With Vetsulin, I am still afraid to crash his number with any insulin. I am thinking about skipping the dose, even though that worries me too.

Thoughts?

 

Yes, at pre-shot time, you definitely want those numbers going up on their own, without the influence of food. And that 146 at +2 has been influenced by food, although it's still a pretty good number. I'm not familiar with Vetsulin, but I wouldn't shoot that number with ProZinc. Hopefully, @Chris & China or someone with Vetsulin experience will be along to offer more guidance. If it were me, I'd skip this dose of insulin and see what the change in food does for Ernie's numbers. Or, if you can conveniently rearrange his schedule, pull his food, now, and see where he's at in another 2 hours. Then, if he's got a safe-to-shoot number but it's still lower than you're used to shooting, post for advice and someone will assist you. I'm also wondering if perhaps Ernie will be one of the lucky kitties who can be diet controlled. Time will tell. Best wishes.

 

I am not getting my hopes up, but I am hopefully, after seeing such a huge drop in a 24 hour period. His schedule is fairly firm, we initially started 6:30 as our dosing time, because it gave us some schedule flexibility if we needed to go to work early or if we were working a little late. So, skipping is likely in order. So my question is, should we pull the wet food over night so that he doesn't sky rocket without insulin. Or leave it out so if he feels hungry he can eat & that way we get a good overnight look at how wet food crazing & no insulin will affect him?

I did post over on the Vetsulin board, but it hasn't looked overly active the past couple of days.

 

Yeah I'm not familiar with Vetsulin either, but I wouldn't shoot a food influenced 146 either

I'd just skip tonight and see how the lower carb diet works out for him....by morning, if he's high enough to shoot, you'll know he's going to need at least a little support

As for feeding tonight, as long as he doesn't get food for 2 hours before the pre-shot test, if he's hungry, I'd feed him....now after this last shot wears off, he may start to climb fast, but any data you get now will be useful in the future, so just keep good notes on what you feed and when you feed him

 

Thank you everyone. I will test him every 2 until bedtime, then we will see where he is in the morning. Right now we free feed all 3 cats. Because none of them, especially Ernie scarf their food, so I don't really fear him overeating by any means.

Thank you for the advice & support. Here's to hoping that we are planning a honeymoon!

 

I'd skip tonight too. My food vote - do what you'll normally be doing nightly. Changing his routine (taking away food) may be enough to alter the testing results giving you a false picture. You want to manage the 'normal'. You would want to pick it up that last 2 hours to get a good 'body' test.

HUGS!!! Headbutts too!

 

Headbutts. Lol, they are the thing that warms our hearts!

This morning brought decent news anyway. He was at 346, which is still lower than his recent PS numbers. So we are getting somewhere though. 1u was shot & we will see what his numbers are at PMPS.

 

Great to read how well Ernie's progressing. I'd have skipped the dose too, BTW. I stopped giving Saoirse Caninsulin (same as Vetsulin, different brand name) after a 0.2 unit dose took her too low for comfort from a 182 preshot test (measured on an Alphatrak meter, so a pet meter would have read lower than 182).

If Ernie is low at the next PMPS, stall without feeding. If he's still low and you decide to withhold the dose, try to get a +4 test if possible. If it's still on the low side it will help you to spot whether there's any carryover from one dose into the next cycle (i.e. some of the previous dose is still having some effect after 12 hours). Vetsulin carryover is very important to watch for at lower numbers.


Mogs
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Thanks for the help Mogs. That makes sense to keep his evening food back & see when his numbers start to climb on their own.

He was at 106 tonight for his PMPS, so we couldn't dose him tonight without shifting his schedule. Now, I am afraid that 1 unit is too much. If he is at 106, at the 12 hour mark & has free feed wet food out all day, it worries me about how low his numbers might have gone during the day. However due to work schedules this week, I can't stay home tomorrow to monitor his levels every 2 hours. So, I think I will see what his #'s are in the morning & maybe only shoot 0.5 unit since i can't monitor him through the day. (At the +2 after what should have been his PM shot, he had only shot up to 252, so I do feel like the insulin is hanging around & keeping things in check.)

 

Yeah I think you've got a good plan there!!

If 1 unit makes it so you can't shoot every 12 hours, than we need to find a dose that you can shoot, so either .75 or .5 would be the place to start next