First Curve/First Test - 26

I am very new here. Our 12 1/2 year old cat weighting just under 11 pounds was diagnosed with diabetes about a month ago. He is getting 1 unit at 10 am and 1 unit at 10pm and we have switched from total dry foot to Fancy Feast Classic. His blood glucose level at the vet was 600 when he was first diagnosed. We are doing our first curve today and his 12 glucose reading with the Reli-on meter from Walmart registered a 26. Feed back needed. Thank you.

 

26 is way too low. Do you have any Fancy Feast flavors with gravy in them? Karo? Honey? Please feed your cat asap - preferably something with higher carb content. Not sure what you mean by 12 glucose reading? Can you post the entire curve?

 

Gave him so dry food now. HIs lantus shot was at 10am EST and we did his first reading with Reli-On at 12pm EST. And that is when we got the 26.

 

I have asked others to come help. You need to get that number up asap. Dry food will take a little longer to have an effect. Is your cat wobbly or acting strange in any way? Spacey? Lethargic? What is your name and what is your kitty's name?

 

If the shot was 2 hours ago, then the insulin is just starting to have onset. I would give your cat some honey or karo syrup (about 2 or 3 drops) rubbed on his gums, and I would test again in 20 minutes.
This is dangerous. When you are done giving the karo or honey, please get ready to go to the vet, just in case (you may not have to go, but be ready).

 

His name is Frodo. He is acting completely normal. I gave a pill pocket treat but I can rub honey on his gums. Let me do that now. Thanks.

 

You need to get his BG over 50. Keep an eye out for any hypo symptoms, and like Dyana said, please be prepare. Go to the vet if you can't get the number up. It's entirely too low.

You need to be very vigilant and test him every 15-20 minutes until the BG is over 50.

I'll be on the board at work until about 2:30EST, on and off. I'll keep checking in.

 

Have you tested him since noon? You really need to know his numbers now.

You can't rely on how he is behaving.

 

I'll be here with you, too, although I am also working. How about another test?

 

I have to log off because I am at work. Please give the karo and test again about 20 minutes after that 26 and post the number (Edit the Subject Line in your first post).

Others will be around to help you.

I am concerned that Frodo's numbers will continue to drop, and I really think that if he hasn't gone up into the 50s by the next test, that maybe you should go to a vet where they can give him some dextrose. There is no room for him to go any lower. And the karo or honey will only lift his numbers for a short while. If you are using Lantus, then the strongest action from the insulin is still hours away. Please keep testing, and posting, okay?

I have to log off in like 3 minutes. I will check to see how you made out when I get home. I hope his numbers go up and stay up, but be aware that they may drop again as soon as the karo wears off.

 

Just retested and it at at 36. Thank you. Thank you. Awaiting your next instruction.

 

How is Frodo acting? I'd be inclined to follow Dyana's lead and go to the emergency vet to get some dextrose in him. If you want to give it another 15 minutes, that's fine, give him some more karo. Get a test then and see where his BG is going.

 

Frodo is acting normal. Since being diagnosed and going on wet foot -- and 1 unit of lantus twice a day -- he is more alert and energetic. Today is no different. He didn't like being tested and went under the bed. But he has since come out. And ever the next test. Went back under the bed -- but then came back out. Gave him honey and he ate more dry food. Will test again shortly. Again, thank you.

 

Will test again but he went under bed after the last bit of honey.

 

Good job so far! Are you giving Frodo any treats with testing? Poor lil guy is in for a lot of those today....

 

We are giving him pill pockets. And he is happy to get a little treat. And yes, he will have lots of tests.
He went to the vet last week to try and have the curve there. We brought him in at 8:30 in the morning and he hadn't eaten -- and he doesn't get his insulin shot until 10am. Well they couldn't get him to eat but they did do two glucose tests. One at 8:30 and it was 179 and then they did another at 10:45 and it was 233 (but he had not eaten). I'm hoping this helps you guys in supporting me with this.

 

You shouldn't need to take your kitty to the vet for curves. Since you are hometesting, you can collect your own data and others here will help you analyze it. By all means, feel free to share with your vet, too.

After we get through today, you will want to set up a spreadsheet to more easily track all the great test numbers you're getting. It will greatly help advisors with dosing questions and help you spot trends. Don't worry about it now, but when Frodo is safe, please take some time to set one up and add it to your signature.

Here's the instructions to set up the spreadsheet: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

 

He is at 47 now. And another treat. And yes, I'll be eater to get a spread sheet set up. Thanks.
I really hope to get some feedback on people think is going on.

 

I apologize for all the sloppy posts -- when I reread them I shutter at the errors in spelling and missing words. Just got my hands full here. Any thoughts on when I should test again? Again, lantus 1 unit at 10am -- and then we began the curve --12:00pm was 26; 12:56pm was 36; 1:30pm was 47.

 

You want to keep testing every 20-30 minutes until you get 2 rising numbers without feeding. Since we're still early in the cycle, I would give a smidge more karo/honey and test again in 30min.

 

Hi there,

I'm just now joining the group and see you have a bit of an emergency going on. Can I just recap to be sure I'm understanding everything?

10:00 a.m. EST - Shot 1 unit Lantus
12:00 p.m. EST - 26
12:56 p.m. EST - 36
1:30 p.m. EST - 47

I see you're feeding dry food and a bit of honey. Do you have any other high-carb foods that you can give Frodo to help boost these numbers? For example, once when Jersey went low, I gave her some Twinkies. Others have given their kitties vanilla ice cream (no chocolate). It takes longer for the dry food to raise the glucose numbers, so you want to be sure that you are giving honey/Karo/syrup along with the dry food.

At this point, even though the numbers are rising, it's really early in the cycle. Lantus usually brings kitty to his lowest point at about 5 to 7 hours after the shot. That's a long way away. So.....there's going to be lots of testing for the rest of the day. I know Frodo won't be happy, but we want him to be safe. He'll forgive you later.

Here's what we do: Give high-carb/Karo. Retest in about 20 minutes. If kitty is still below 50, give more high-carb/Karo. Retest in about 20 minutes. You'll need to keep this up for a while until we can be sure the numbers aren't going to drop back down.

Here's some more information for dealing with low numbers:

By the way - fantastic job catching that low number today. That tells us Frodo's dose is too high, but we'll worry about a good dose after we get him into a safe range.

 

You will want to keep testing and giving honey to stay above 50, lantus tends to peak at +6hrs from shot. So I would be prepared to keep this up till at least then. Then at that point you want 2 rising numbers above 50 with out food/honey influence.
At some point I would guess there will be a spike due to the dry kibble. As the spike from the dry will take longer to see the effect.
You are doing a great job.

 

Yes. That is accurate. And just gave honey. I will need to get other carb food now that I know this drill. Ugh.
Trying to relax him as he is getting a little annoyed with continually being "captured and retrained."

 

I'm also trying to not interrupt him when he is eating. He is a real grazer -- very little bits and bites throughout the day.

 

Great - I'm glad I got it right. Yes, they do get testy with us on days like today. Can you imagine if you wouldn't have caught that low number, though? :shock: You can give him lots of love later to make up for all the poking.

A lot of people use the Fancy Feast gravy lover's to deal with low numbers. The gravy contains the carbs, so you can give the gravy easily without filling the kitty up. I bought several cans to have in my "hypo kit" and marked them with big black X's so I wouldn't accidentally feed it to Jersey when she was in good numbers.

Let us know what the next reading is. It should be getting close to time, I think.

 

Some of the gravy flavored Fancy Feasts are handy because you can squeeze out the gravy and let him lick that up, rather than fill him with food. The carbs are in the gravy. I am out for a meeting and then lunch, but it looks like you have lots of friends. I'll check back in later.

 

We are now at 60.

 

Fantastic! I would hold off on food for the moment and see how well the numbers hold up. Don't go any longer than 20 to 30 minutes without testing, though. I'm hoping the dry food is finally starting to kick in.

Remember - we want two rising numbers now (without food) before backing off on testing.

 

Do I continue with honey and let him eat the dry food? I don't have any gravy -- but will be sending husband to the store later.

 

I wouldn't feed any more at the moment. Let's see if he can hold these numbers up on his own for the next 20 minutes. If he falls back below 50 at the next test, we'll feed some more honey/dry food.

 

Ok. Our posts much have been passing ships. I have pulled the food. I will aim for test every 20-30 minutes. He seems like he is getting used to the tests and not running for cover as much. And that is a very good thing.

 

Definitely a good thing! I always erred on the side of caution with Jersey and tried to test every 20 minutes as opposed to 30. For some kitties, it takes closer to 30 minutes before you can really see the effects of the food. Since I'm not sure how long it takes food to hit Frodo's system, I would go closer to 20 minutes rather than 30. I say that, too, because we're still so early in the cycle. The Lantus should still be packing a punch at this point.

When things slow down a bit for you, you might want to go back and look at your thread from the beginning. With so many back-and-forth posts, it becomes really easy to miss posts. I'm trying to refresh my page often so I don't miss anything. If I do, bring it my attention. ;-)

 

Yes. Have been trying to read past post and will continue to do so. I will test every 20.

 

Great. Did I mention what a wonderful job you've done handling all of this?

When did you make the switch from dry food to canned? A lot of times, the food change alone can bring kitty's overall range of numbers down quite a bit. I'm trying now to go back through some of your other posts, but I haven't found anything yet on when you made the switch.

 

We are now at 94.

 

Neosporin +pain aid will come in handy to help the ears heal.

 

Great. I'm guessing either the high-carb dry food has kicked in or this is the beginning of a bounce - or maybe both. We now have a couple of tests above 50, and the numbers are rising. Don't feed and retest in about 45 minutes to an hour. Again - I'm a safety girl, so I would probably shoot for about 45 minutes.

 

Ok. Any many, many thanks again. We had no idea this would be our first experience with a curve.

As for changing the food -- well, let's just say we didn't have a good August. We had to put our younger cat (8 yrs. old) down because she had lymphoma. Unusual tumor in eye socket pushing back into brain. She went on prednisone for final months but it was grim. She was put down on August 13. Five days later we thought Frodo looked like he had lost weight -- and we got the diabetes diagnosis (BG 600). Six months prior his blood work was totally normal. We began feeding fancy feast classic very soon after the diagnosis but not exactly sure when. Maybe a week after diagnosis.

And I will make an entire grocery/drug store list for my husband...

 

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear about your kitty. It's so hard to let them go, even when you know it's the right thing to do. :YMHUG:

Okay, so it's been at least a couple of weeks since you changed food. That means any effects the dry food had on the numbers (with the exception of today) will be gone. (That will be a factor in dosing.)

I think I'm caught up with your previous posts now. I saw the one about meals. I fed Jersey several small meals throughout the day. The only time I did not feed her was 2 hours before each shot time. You don't want the food to influence the pre-shot numbers, so you don't feed during that 2-hour window (unless you're dealing with low numbers). A lot of people try to feed their cats several small meals in the early part of the Lantus cycle (e.g., during this first four or so hours) and less during the second part of the cycle when the insulin is wearing off.

 

You're doing great! I'm sorry I disappeared! I got pulled into something and couldn't get back to my computer. Shelley, thanks for jumping in!!

Once you get through this, you don't want to give Frodo 1u again. You'll want to back his dose down - probably to .5u, but others will be along to give you better dosing advice than I can!

Frodo, hold that number up for your bean now! She worked hard to get your BG up!

 

You've done a wonderful job of getting/keeping Frodo's numbers up. Great catch on the 26! :thumbup
I'm so glad Shelley was able to stay with you.
Sounds like you kept cool too. I freaked, the first time I saw a number below 40. :lol:

You might find that Frodo will spike from the dry food now. Your hubby is going to get some high carb wet, for future drops?
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers is good, to squeeze out the gravy, without filling his tummy. It will raise numbers a little slower and keep them more level, after the Karo/honey emergency spike.

What would you like us to call you?

 

We are at 96. Now I'll go back and read posts.

 

How you doing now? It's been about 45 minutes, right?

Just to recap:

10:00 a.m. EST - Shot 1 unit Lantus
12:00 p.m. EST - 26
12:56 p.m EST - 36
1:30 p.m. EST - 47
2:00 p.m. EST - 60
2:20 p.m. EST - 94

I know I'm guestimating those last times, but they should be pretty close, I think.

I didn't even ask - did you get a reading before you gave insulin this morning? I'm sure you would have told us what the number was if you had, but I just wanted to make sure.

Hang in there. This has definitely been trial by fire for you.

 

Oops - sorry. I cross-posted with you. ohmygod_smile Since the number is pretty much flat, I would try to test again in about 45 minutes. We should still be at the peak of the insulin action, and the numbers might come back down on us.

Edited to add latest numbers with time since shot:

10:00 a.m. EST - Shot 1u Lantus
12:00 p.m. EST (+2) - 26
12:56 p.m EST (+3) - 36
1:30 p.m. EST (+3.5) - 47
2:00 p.m. EST (+4) - 60
2:20 p.m. EST (+4.25) - 94
3:00 p.m. EST (+5) - 96

 

We really didn't know how serious this first reading was. And I'm only starting to realize it now. I just got off the phone with the vet. I didn't even call to give an update on this curve but more to find out exactly when he was diagnosed -- to be able to give you guys more info. When I explained the morning and our curve, the vet said she practically had a minor heart attack. She repeated over and over how lucky we are. I just got really choked up/teary. I don't think I was able to get into the conversation that we didn't use their recommended cat meter but were using the Reli-on human meter and I know there are some differences. I will want to talk this evening. Do I private message my phone number. Sorry for being so green on a forum. See below vet's instructions:

As for the vet's instructions:
No insulin for now. He may have completely gone into remission. Spot check until Monday.
9:00 AM feed em; pull food at 10; 10:30 glucose check
Repeat cycle at night
And do another test mid-day

IF HE GOES BACK ON INSULIN -- routine should be:
Breakfast at 9:00 — make sure he eats even though he is a grazer. Insulin shot 10; pull the food up. No food at lunch; Dinner at 9:00 -- make sure he eats. 10pm shot. pull food up before we go to bed.

They want to know if he goes over 400 and they said to have honey/karo on hand and if it drops again, start checking again every 30 min.

 

:YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

Yes, that 26 is a very scary, very low number. However, you have been able to steer the numbers with food, and Frodo is safe right now. As long as you keep testing every 30 to 45 minutes, you're going to be able to catch the drop and bring the numbers back up with food.

I'm not sure I completely agree with your vet's advice. As I mentioned, we typically don't feed for two hours before the pre-shot glucose tests (rather than the hour your vet recommended) because we want to make sure the food doesn't influence the numbers. Two hours gives us enough time to be sure the food effects are gone. Also, it's really important to check your kitty's glucose before every shot. That is going to tell you if it's safe to shoot. For instance, if you checked kitty's glucose and it was at 53, you wouldn't give a shot in that case. Most people here will test their kitties, feed their kitties, and then give insulin - all within about 10 to 15 minutes. Many people give the shot while their kitty is eating. (We do want to make sure the cat is going to eat before simply giving the shot.)

I'm sure others will be along soon to give you some advice on feeding and insulin doses (if you have to go back to insulin).

 

Sorry - I was focused on your vet's back-on-insulin directions and completely failed to answer the other part.

We consider a cat to be in remission when his numbers stay in the normal range for 2 weeks - which is roughly 50 to 120. (Many cats who are not on insulin actually run even lower than that. For example, Jersey, who went into remission in April, often tests in the 30s and 40s. Since she isn't on insulin, those numbers are safe.)

One good indicator we use is the +3 test. Test Frodo and then feed him. About three hours after you feed him, test him again. If the number is lower than it was right before you fed him, that's a good sign that his pancreas is working and pulling down the numbers on it's own.

 

Another reading -- 90. Will go back and read posts now.

 

Got it. You're doing great - and so is Frodo! That 90 is basically flat from the previous test once we take into consideration that meters have a 20% variance. He's been doing really well holding those numbers steady. Right now, we should be right around nadir (the low point in the cycle) - which is usually from 5 to 7 hours after the shot. Are you up for doing another check in 45 minutes? Once we get past nadir, you should be able to slow down on the testing.

You haven't fed since after that 47, right?

Sorry I keep posting the recap. It just helps me keep track of the numbers, and you'll be able to correct me if I get off.

10:00 a.m. EST - Shot 1u Lantus
12:00 p.m. EST (+2) - 26
12:56 p.m EST (+3) - 36
1:30 p.m. EST (+3.5) - 47
2:00 p.m. EST (+4) - 60
2:20 p.m. EST (+4.25) - 94
3:00 p.m. EST (+5) - 96
3:45 p.m. EST (+5.75) - 90

 

I pulled the food after 60. And I'm up for doing testing all night if that's what you told me to do. And recaps are great.

 

Oops - I meant to say 60. Proofread, Shelly, proofread. ohmygod_smile Thanks for correcting me.

Awww....hugs to you. We're almost past the hump here. Deep breath. You're doing a wonderful job and by testing today, you've been able to keep Frodo safe!

You had mentioned the human meter versus the AlphaTrak. I won't overwhelm you with the details right now, but to give you an idea of the difference: AlphaTrak (AT) meters read higher than human meters. For example, on a human meter, we don't want the kitty to fall below 50. That's our "take action" number. For the AlphaTrak, we don't want the kitty to fall below about 68. That's the "take action" number for people who use an AT.

 

Hugs back. What a day. So glad you are able to be here. And thanks for the continued education. I really dug into the information on this site several weeks back but much if it is so technical that I absorb it for a few days -- and then it vanishes from my brain.

And what are "The Falls"?

 

New reading - 58.

 

I'm glad I was here, too. I teach at a college and get home early on Wednesdays. Yay for that schedule!

I was almost scared away from the site when I first joined. There were so many "rules" and technical aspects to it. I'm pretty good with a computer, but it was so overwhelming to get set up here on top of dealing with the diabetes diagnosis.

By the way - I should introduce myself. I'm Shelly, and my cat's name is Jersey. We joined in January although I waited a while to start posting. Jersey started on Humulin-N and was then switched to Lantus after I read about the various insulins here. She was on Lantus for about two months and is now at "the Falls" - or in remission. I'm not sure where that nickname came from, but kitties at the Falls are those who are now diet-controlled diabetics.

Ask all of the questions you have. We all remember what it's like first starting out. Tons of questions, emotions, and a little bit of despair, too.

 

Okay, so this is the high-carb stuff wearing off in combination with nadir (the natural low point in the cycle). How about trying a couple of teaspoons of his regular Fancy Feast with a drop of honey mixed in?

Retest in about 30 minutes.

 

Ok. Will do.

 

We're not in any danger, and the honey may not even be necessary, but I'd like to see him just a tad bit higher. The honey may give him that little boost, and the regular food may help him "surf" at that higher number.

10:00 a.m. EST - Shot 1u Lantus
12:00 p.m. EST (+2) - 26
12:56 p.m EST (+3) - 36
1:30 p.m. EST (+3.5) - 47
2:00 p.m. EST (+4) - 60
2:20 p.m. EST (+4.25) - 94
3:00 p.m. EST (+5) - 96
3:45 p.m. EST (+5.75) - 90
4:30 p.m. EST (+6.5) - 58

 

Checking back in - looks like you've hit the safety zone - whew! Thanks for jumping in Shelly!! LL teamwork for the win!!

 

My name is Ann Meade. It's a double name. I'm a marketing consultant and thankfully, work from home.
The 58 did scare me. I've prepared the food and he has take a few bites and then walked away. That is how he usually eats. I'm hoping he marches back to the bowl soon.

Did someone ever give you an orientation of the site over the phone? It is a lot to digest.

 

What if he doesn't want to eat more?

 

It's okay right now if he doesn't want to eat. That 58 is a safe number. I just like to err on the side of caution and give us a little padding (for your sake as well as his). If he doesn't want to eat, just try to recheck in about 20 to 30 minutes.

 

Nice to officially "meet" you, Ann Meade!

I don't know. One of the rules of the site is that we give all dosing advice/diabetes management advice on the discussion boards where everyone can see them. I don't know why it wouldn't be okay to have an off-site conversation about how the FDMB site works, but let's let others chime in on that one.

 

Ok. Will do.
And I will need to spend more time reviewing rules, etc. Again, I read a bunch on this site at the beginning about diabetes and the meters -- but admittedly, I didn't read about rules or some of the other technical aspects.

 

My advice - take it slow. Don't try to read everything at once. You'll end up pulling all of your hair out. I just tried to learn a little each day. And don't worry about the "rules" at this point. Probably what was most important to me in the beginning was home testing; learning when to test was huge. Getting the spreadsheet set up was also important. That way, I could record my numbers where others could see them. That allowed them to help me find the perfect dose for Jersey. (I have step-by-step instructions for how to set up the spreadsheet when you have a chance to breathe and if you need them.)

Don't worry about the other stuff right now - like all of the icons, signature info, etc. You'll pick that up along the way.

My paws are crossed that Frodo is in remission. Then you won't have to learn all the technical aspects of the site. If he is in remission, it may be that his numbers will regularly test in the 50s - like he's at right now.

 

New Reading - 77.

 

Beautiful! How much did Frodo eat of the FF/drop of honey combo? Just a few bites? I'm guessing were seeing a bit of a spike from that food in the 77. I wouldn't feed any more high-carb food/honey at this point. Let's wait and see how it goes.

We're most likely past the low point of the cycle, which is 5 to 7 hours after the shot for most cats, so it should be safe to wait for about an hour to test again. If you're nervous, though, you can always test sooner than that.

10:00 a.m. EST - Shot 1u Lantus
12:00 p.m. EST (+2) - 26
12:56 p.m EST (+3) - 36
1:30 p.m. EST (+3.5) - 47
2:00 p.m. EST (+4) - 60
2:20 p.m. EST (+4.25) - 94
3:00 p.m. EST (+5) - 96
3:45 p.m. EST (+5.75) - 90
4:30 p.m. EST (+6.5) - 58
5:00 p.m. EST (+7) - 77

 

He only ate a few bites but I'll pick it up. It was such a small amount that I didn't think it would even have an impact.
And I will absolutely take you advice about taking the site slow. And yes, fingers crossed he is in remission.

 

That 77 might be a mostly natural rise, then. If so, that's great information to know. When we put together all of the numbers (like I've been doing in the recaps), they paint a picture for us of what a kitty likes to do with a Lantus cycle. That can be helpful in determining a dose and figuring out when the best times to test will be.

 

I'm so glad you are seasoned at understanding the picture that this is painting. Even after getting a recap of insulin and how it works today from the vet -- I'm still feeling a bit lost. Hand holding for me at this stage is exactly what I need. Again, thank you. When will I test again?

 

You're very welcome, but believe me - there are many other people here who are much more experienced than I am. I can help with the basics and can help out in a crisis - although I have a tendency to overdo both the testing and the carbs, especially when it comes to other people's kitties. I would much rather test and carb too much than not enough.

I actually don't offer dosing advice much unless it's clear that a kitty is getting too much insulin. In that case, I'll tell them not to give the same dose - just like I'll tell you not to give 1 unit again. Then I'll flag someone down with more experience to help figure out what the new dose should be. It's a team effort here, and I try to help where I can while still respecting the limits to my knowledge.

It's been about 30 minutes from your last test, right? I would say test about 45 minutes to an hour after your last test (or about 15 to 30 minutes from now). If it makes you feel better to test more often, it's certainly okay to do that.

Are you using Neosporin ointment on Frodo's ears?

 

Yes. Sporin on the ears -- but our's doesn't have no pain feature. I'll look for that.
Well, this team effort is much appreciated as someone who is newly on the diabetic road.
Another test soon.

 

Yep - definitely get the Neosporin ointment with pain relief. I couldn't ever get the hang of ear testing, unfortunately, so I tested Jersey's paw. I would put just a tiny bit on her paw before the poke to help the blood bead up and then put a little on her paw afterwards to help take the sting out.

Your husband is going to have a heck of a shopping list, isn't he? ;-)

 

New Reading: 90.

 

Woo hoo! I think you're most likely "out of the woods" today. Maybe check again in another hour or hour and a half just to be safe? (Did I mention I have a tendency to test a lot? ;-) )

10:00 a.m. EST - Shot 1u Lantus
12:00 p.m. EST (+2) - 26
12:56 p.m EST (+3) - 36
1:30 p.m. EST (+3.5) - 47
2:00 p.m. EST (+4) - 60
2:20 p.m. EST (+4.25) - 94
3:00 p.m. EST (+5) - 96
3:45 p.m. EST (+5.75) - 90
4:30 p.m. EST (+6.5) - 58
5:00 p.m. EST (+7) - 77
5:45 p.m. EST (+7.75) - 90

 

I'd rather know at this stage of the game and give you a clear picture. Whatever it takes. And he is totally getting used to it. He didn't run for the bed after the six or so test. He knows when he is getting picked up for test and complies. He is such a great cat. My wonderful, loving, bedtime cuddle buddy.

Tell me again how the testing and the feeding should go for the rest of the night -- with dinner in the mix?

I'll have to reread your posts about what you belief the game plan should be for tomorrow and moving forward.

 

I'm glad you asked about tonight - I was going to mention it. What do you think you would like to do? Would you like to try your vet's advice and not give any insulin for a few days, or are you still going to give insulin if the numbers show it's necessary? What's your schedule like? You're doing a great job getting tests. Will you be able to get some spot checks in between the shots? That will change what we suggest. If you can't be home to monitor/test, we'll definitely be more conservative than if you can be around.

I'm going to assume that you will be continuing with the insulin and that you still want to keep your shot times at 10:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m.:

Don't give any food between 8:00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m. tonight (assuming, of course, that Frodo's numbers are still in the safe range).
Test at 10:00 p.m. tonight.
Feed. (This will be his normal dinnertime, right?)
Give insulin (again, this depends on your preference and what the pre-shot test shows).

If you want to see how Frodo does without insulin for a few days, you're going to have a lot more flexibility in what you do. Don't feed him two hours before dinner (again assuming that his numbers are in the safe range) and that can be whenever you want it to be. Right before you give him dinner, get a test in. Then, two or three hours after dinner, grab another test. Compare the before-dinner and after-dinner tests. Did his numbers come down? If so, that's a sign that his pancreas is working.

If you decide you're going to continue with the insulin, I'll flag down one of our most experienced users to help you determine a dose and a no-shot level.

 

I think we are not going to give a shot tonight. I have to jump on a conference call and then will reread your instructions for food. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

 

No need to thank me - I'm glad I could help.

You've had an extremely stressful day, so I understand about skipping tonight's shot. Let's keep using this thread tonight. Tomorrow, how about starting a new thread (topic)? This one is getting pretty long now, and we don't want to miss any new posts that you might make. Tomorrow, you can just click on the "new topic" button at the top of this page and put the date, Frodo's name, & a glucose reading (if you have one) in the subject line. Include any other info/questions you have for us.

For example: 9/11 Frodo AMBG 207 Do we give insulin?

(By the way, AMBG stands for AM (morning) Blood Glucose. That's the term we use when we haven't given insulin yet. AMPS stands for AM (morning) Pre-Shot, meaning that we've given insulin. Those are some of the little "rules" that you don't need to worry about learning right now. You'll pick them up as you go.)

I'll keep watching for any updates you have tonight; I think the next test should be coming up pretty soon. I'll probably sign off around 9:00 EST, but lots of people are on the board throughout the evening. If you get into an emergency situation, go back to your very first post in this thread and click on the 911 icon above the subject line. That will bring attention to your post quickly. Make sure you click on the 911 in your very first post on the first page, though. Otherwise, people won't be able to see it until they open up the thread.

 

Hi Ann Meade! Shelly asked me to come and check in on you and frodo. I have a frodo too - long haired orange boy, but not diabetic.

I think your vet is right about skipping the Lantus for right now. Definitely tonight, probably tomorrow and possibly longer. 26 is very low, dangerously so. It sounds like you didn't notice any symptoms, so that's good. We are all laypeople and volunteers, but i am experienced with Lantus and I would not shoot anything for now. It's possible Frodo's numbers will rise, because his body may react to the low numbers by going high. That's a normal response and those numbers can last 3 days before they come down again.

Not sure if that makes sense, but here is an explanation about bouncing:

In your case, let's hold off on any insulin at all for now. Go ahead and keep checking him every hour for the next few hours. If he stays over 50, you can just give him regular low carb canned food. I think in an earlier post you said you were feeding Fancy Feast pates - that's great. Just keep giving him those. At this point, I'd probably hold off on the dry food.

If he goes below 50 again, please immediately give him some gravy, karo, honey and retest in 20-30 minutes. Someone gave you the directions for that earlier.

I'm headed out but will check on you tomorrow. In the meantime, again, withhold any insulin shot. keep testing to make sure he's not dropping back down. Lantus hypo events can last as long as 18 hours, so he's not completely out of the woods yet. You've done a fantastic job of keeping your cool and handling things, even if it was because you didn't know how serious it was. sometimes ignorance is bliss. in any case, well done. keep it up. Others will be watching for you as well.

 

hmmm, rereading, i'm not sure if my point about bouncing is clear. he may develop high numbers from the hypo, but you would NOT restart insulin at this point, even if he's high for the next 3 days. As his body calms down, the bounce numbers (if they happen) will clear out and come down. So for now, just assume you are not going to restart insulin until someone experienced tells you it's safe to go ahead.

 

After very low numbers or hypo episodes, it is common for the cat to be much more sensitive to insulin's effects and need an even lower dose.

Unless he is way over 200 mg/dL at pre-shot (tomorrow), I wouldn't even consider a shot. And if he is, maybe only 0.25 units, which you eyeball as no syringes measure that finely. And only if you'll be home to monitor him and intervene if needed.

 

How are you guys doin' now? I'm really glad Julie was able to stop by. She was one of the people who helped me tremendously with Jersey when we were on insulin.

 

New Reading: 121.

 

Yay!

10:00 a.m. EST - Shot 1u Lantus
12:00 p.m. EST (+2) - 26
12:56 p.m EST (+3) - 36
1:30 p.m. EST (+3.5) - 47
2:00 p.m. EST (+4) - 60
2:20 p.m. EST (+4.25) - 94
3:00 p.m. EST (+5) - 96
3:45 p.m. EST (+5.75) - 90
4:30 p.m. EST (+6.5) - 58
5:00 p.m. EST (+7) - 77
5:45 p.m. EST (+7.75) - 90
7:15 p.m. EST (+9.25) - 121

 

Many more thanks are in order. I read the recent posts and need to reread ...and reread. And glad to see there is another Frodo as a member of the support network! That's great.

Our Frodo looks good. And again, is now quite the trooper for the tests. I need to reread posts about when exactly I should feed him-- AND we are NOT giving him insulin tonight. And pretty doubtful for tomorrow. But we want to take this one step at a time with your support.

 

As for DINNER - we usually feed him at 9:00 -- and then we would give shot at 10pm.
So HELP with what times we do the remaining tests tonight?

 

i would continue to test hourly until you go to bed, at least 12 hrs after the shot this morning.

i would not shoot any insulin tonight, no matter how high high numbers go.

as far as food, small meals around the clock. if he's a grazer, that makes it easy. leave plenty of low carb canned food out when you go to sleep. better to have too much food available than not enough.

if at all possible, i'd ditch the dry food at this point. if you can manage him without giving dry food it's much better. a lot of kitties come out of remission because they get dry food and now that he's over 50, as long as he stays there, he is safe.

Sometimes a hypo event will shock the pancreas back into putting out insulin. giving small meals around the clock (or letting him graze as he wants) now will help him if his pancreas is sputtering back to life.

i'm off now, but will look in on you tomorrow.

 

Great. Thanks!!

 

I had a wonderful response written, went to post it, and saw that Julie had beaten me to it and already posted. That woman is on top of it! :lol:

Glad she was able to answer your questions!

 

New Reading: 134

 

Lookin' good. Thank you so much for posting the updates. I'll be signing off here in another hour or so, but there should be others to help if you run into any uh-ohs. I don't think you will, though. You did an awesome job today. I know it was extremely stressful, but you handled it like a pro. Make sure you give Frodo lots of hugs and kisses tonight. He was such a good boy today. cat_pet_icon

10:00 a.m. EST - Shot 1u Lantus
12:00 p.m. EST (+2) - 26
12:56 p.m EST (+3) - 36
1:30 p.m. EST (+3.5) - 47
2:00 p.m. EST (+4) - 60
2:20 p.m. EST (+4.25) - 94
3:00 p.m. EST (+5) - 96
3:45 p.m. EST (+5.75) - 90
4:30 p.m. EST (+6.5) - 58
5:00 p.m. EST (+7) - 77
5:45 p.m. EST (+7.75) - 90
7:15 p.m. EST (+9.25) - 121
8:15 p.m. EST (+10.25) - 134

 

Couldn't have done it without you. Great to hold hands!
And the recaps are great.
And Frodo is getting lots of lovin'!!

 

Great TEAM effort. Thanks to everyone.

 

Yay for lovin'. I'm guessing he's even forgiven you for all of that poking today. ;-)

I'm signing off now, but I'll check back in tomorrow to see how things are going.

Hope you can get some sleep tonight. I know it's been an emotionally draining day for you. :YMHUG:

EDIT: Darn that cross-posting. You're very welcome. I'm so glad you found FDMB and that we were able to help you today!

 

New Reading at 9:15. See below.

10:00 a.m. EST - Shot 1u Lantus
12:00 p.m. EST (+2) - 26
12:56 p.m EST (+3) - 36
1:30 p.m. EST (+3.5) - 47
2:00 p.m. EST (+4) - 60
2:20 p.m. EST (+4.25) - 94
3:00 p.m. EST (+5) - 96
3:45 p.m. EST (+5.75) - 90
4:30 p.m. EST (+6.5) - 58
5:00 p.m. EST (+7) - 77
5:45 p.m. EST (+7.75) - 90
7:15 p.m. EST (+9.25) - 121
8:15 p.m. EST (+10.25) - 134
9:15 p.m. EST (+11.25) - 119

 

Couldn't resist checking in once more tonight - lookin' great! Thanks for updating our list of numbers, too.

 

You make me smile. A very big smile. Thank you.
One more test at 10:15. And then I am taking a long hot bath and hitting the hay!

 

Last reading today: 96

 

I have been following your condo, since I got home from work yesterday. I would hold off on the insulin this morning.
Especially, since he got all that dry food and his numbers are not bad. The effects on BGs from dry food can take a day to wear off, so let's just see how he does on 100% canned.

 

Just checking in on you again this morning before I have to go to work. ;-) I'm glad Julie, Dyana, and BJ were able to share their thoughts on giving more insulin (with the consensus being not to give insulin).

Great job testing last night, and nice numbers for Frodo. Hope all is well this morning!

Shelly

10:00 a.m. EST - Shot 1u Lantus
12:00 p.m. EST (+2) - 26
12:56 p.m EST (+3) - 36
1:30 p.m. EST (+3.5) - 47
2:00 p.m. EST (+4) - 60
2:20 p.m. EST (+4.25) - 94
3:00 p.m. EST (+5) - 96
3:45 p.m. EST (+5.75) - 90
4:30 p.m. EST (+6.5) - 58
5:00 p.m. EST (+7) - 77
5:45 p.m. EST (+7.75) - 90
7:15 p.m. EST (+9.25) - 121
8:15 p.m. EST (+10.25) - 134
9:15 p.m. EST (+11.25) - 119
10:15 p.m. EST (+12.25) - 96