First no shoot!!

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Smokey and Jessica, Feb 17, 2018.

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  1. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    After messing up Smokey’s schedule for the last few days there’s been two times I reduced the dose and shot in the blues after stalling 1-2 hours. Now this morning our first NO SHOOT with an amps of 96. Trying not to be too excited, or nervous, but he woke me up multiple times last night making noise, using the litter box, having a hairball at the foot of my bed, so even without checks I’m fairly confident he was ok last night, and this morning is low just because it’s low, not because he went too low over night. Hopefully. I’ll be gone most of the day but I’ll check again around +8/9.
    Wish us luck!!!

    Edit: taking advantage of the low number and NO insulin to make the final switch to all fancy feast. Holding 7 cans of the hills md in case we need high carb later.

    Oh! And I took the idea from Greg and Goma and changed my name from jlko so everyone knows us too! That was such a good idea! Hope it’s not too weird haha but it really was a good idea :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  2. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    +7 of no shoot 116!!!!!
    He’s been happily snacking all day on 3/4 can ff after a full can this morning. Looking good!
     
  3. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Pmps 132!! No shoot again!
    It is coming up though so where to go from here? If he’s as high as 170’s I’m thinking try to catch it before it goes too high with .50, but if he’s already over around 220’s give .75? I don’t want to send him bouncing after he’s been so steady so I want to try small, but I have no idea if that means his last steady dose .75 or .50 or even less since he’ll be more than 24 hours without insulin? At the same time I don’t want to go too small and have him lose momentum if he can’t keep up.
     
  4. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    It's best if you can find a tiny dose to give both AM and PM. Why not try to eyeball 0.25 u to the best of your ability?
     
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  5. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    I like that idea. I really wish I had half unit syringes, but I will eye it as close as I can. What I did for .75 was find a spot I think is .75 that I can guarantee is the same each time, using the inside of the stopper as a mark. It might’ve been a little more or a little less but it was consistant. I can do that at .25 too. So it might not be exact, but it will be as close as I can get it and more important the same each time.

    Thank you so much!! We never would’ve gotten this far without everyone’s help! I can’t even think what could’ve happened if he had stayed on too much. Now so much less insulin and full switch to better food. I’ve been trying to keep my goals small, just get him stable, get him on the right food, get him well managed, but now with all the help I’ve gotten and progress we’ve made, I’m starting to have hope for remission! One day at a time, one goal at a time, but the hope is there!
     
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  6. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    You're absolutely right that consistency is more important than whether or not it's exactly 0.25u. There are actually a couple of ways to shoot even less than that. Some cats need to baby-step all the way down to zero. Other cats reach a point and just jump off of insulin. My hunch is that Smokey will be done soon (if he isn't already).

    He needs to go 14 days without insulin before he's in remission, and for the rest of his life, he's still diabetic - but food controlled. That means that if he gets higher carb food, he will come out of remission. Likewise if he has a health issue - UTI, URI, weight gain, dental problem, etc. - so keep those teeth clean! and stay on top of health issues. Inflammation and infection will put him back on insulin quickly.

    After the 14 days (we call it an OTJ trail - Off the Juice), you can move to testing once/week for another month, then once ever two weeks for life. Unfortunately, many cats are in remission for a long time, and then something will happen to bump them out of remission. The faster you can catch that, the better chance of a second remission, so that's why it's important to continue with regular testing.

    Of course, keep posting because when a kitty hits 14 days (assuming he gets there), we all like to celebrate with you!
     
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  7. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Amps 116 still no shot!

    I know right now I’m watching for highs and will give .25 right away, but let’s just say he does officially go in to remission, how long would I wait before starting insulin again, especially if I know it’s stressed induced?
    Here’s the thing- we’re moving in April and it will be approx 18 hours in his kennel, 2 plane rides, then quarantine for 5 days. Right now he’s scheduled to quarantine at a 24 hour clinic so they could monitor and give his shots. But, can he go high for basically 5-6 days before he’s released without insulin if the situation stresses him? I wouldn’t want them to put him back on it if it’s not really necessary, but wouldn’t want to put him in danger either. I’m just thinking out loud really. I’m an over thinker and like to plan everything!
     
  8. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I would think you can wait until he's home and has a couple of days. That does sound like it will be stressful! Make sure you control what he eats in quarantine and emphasize the urgency to them - no unapproved foods or treats - the last thing he needs is that much stress and some high carb vet food!
     
  9. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Pmps 142 no shoot but wish it was lower.
    Hoping for a better number in the morning.
     
  10. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Amps 117
    I think he just doesn’t want me to sleep well at night!
     
  11. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    No shot tonight. He's on a mission ... :)
     
  12. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Pmps last night 128
    Amps this morning 107 still no shot!
    We’re doing good! I probably should’ve asked first, but is hearguard ok? I imagine it’s probably all carbs and I’m kind of regretting giving it to him this morning, but it was due, and I didn’t even think about it until after he ate it. I gave it to him around the 23rd last month and wasn’t home testing yet. I had skipped flea drops last month because I use that area for shots so after doing the flea drops last night I just gave him the heart guard this morning without even thinking it might bump up his glucose.
     
  13. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I can't answer that because I have no experience with it.
     
  14. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    That’s alright thanks anyway. I’ll just check him tonight as usual and hope if it does raise him he can deal with it during the day. I know heart worm prevention is more commonly used for dogs than cats, but it’s just something we do, especially since it’s already starting to warm up here and the mosquitos are coming. It’s also required for his health certificate to fly that he’s current on prevention. I think he’ll be fine, but if it is bad I can look into another option like a shot next time.
     
  15. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I'd just gather some data around this time and see what happens. Then you can determine if you need to look at another option.
     
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  16. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Pmps 109!!! Apparently the heart guard was ok. Good to know!
     
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  17. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Amps 94!!!! It’s such a pretty number!!
    About an hour ago I heard his collar tapping the food bowl. I came out to see and he was licking his lips. He must’ve saved himself a little food from last night. He had eaten more than half of what I put down when I went to bed so I know it wasn’t much, but I’m excited that he still had such a beautiful number after eating something and that he’s not frantically eating everything I give him now! He used to free feed and he seems to be self regulating his food again!
     
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  18. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    :D:D:D
     
  19. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Pmps 117 looking good!
    Now that he’s slowing down eating I am a little worried he might not be getting enough food. He was 5.6 kg last time he was weighed and is eating 3 cans of fancy feast per day. Mostly during the day although last night he left himself some. According for ff feeding guide he should be eating more like 4 cans. We have a follow up vet appointment on Sunday so I’ll see if his weight is good then, and tell them that’s he’s been insulin free, but I’m thinking of switching to Friskies for the bigger cans? Or maybe he is getting enough?
     
  20. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Does he seem underweight to you? Is he a picky eater? Weighing him weekly is a good way to track how much to feed. A digital baby scale works well for this or you can weigh yourself on a human scale with and without him in your arms and subtract to get his weight.
     
  21. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    I will try to weigh him on my scale tomorrow. We had this talk on another thread. I think he’s slightly under, had one vet tell me he’s overweight, and another say he’s fine. He seems ok with this amount. He asks for more for the last couple hours before I test but then when I feed him he doesn’t eat it all at once anymore. During the day I give him more in the afternoon whenever he wants more and he seems content. I just don’t want to short him calories.
     
  22. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    He’s not picky at all! He eats anything it seems.
     
  23. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Excellent! I'd feed him more in multiple small meals and track his weight.
     
  24. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    When I was doing a lot of testing I would give him a can in the morning, can at night, and then a spoon full or 1/4 can every test. For a couple of the last few days I was still splitting it up throughout the day. Now yesterday and today when he came asking in the afternoon I just give him another whole can and he eats it as he wants. So it doesn’t seem he’s hungry and that’s been easier for me just leaving it for him. I’ll just have to start getting weights and watch and adjust as needed.
     
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  25. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    The Fancy Feast directions would be way too many calories for most indoor-only cats. Mine eat about two cans/day (or the equivalent now that they are on different food) and one is a healthy weight and the other is still a little chubby.

    It does sounds like he's self-regulating his calories, so I would just let him do it, and as Kris said, keep an eye on his weight to make sure he doesn't start losing.

    His numbers are super exciting right now! Fingers crossed they just keep getting better and better!
     
  26. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Amps 199 :(
    I’m trying not to panick. I checked a little earlier this morning than I usually do so I’m wondering if he saved food again? My husband cleaned up a hairball that he said smelled like food so maybe he ate some. There was still about half a can when I went to bed. I’m going to hold out feeding him breakfast and recheck in an hour and a half or so. I won’t be home after that so I’m afraid to give him any insulin in case this is a food related high. If it’s gone down by the time I have to leave I’ll assume it was food, feed him as normal and move on. If it’s still high I’ll get another check when I get home and if it’s high tonight I might give a small shot and stay up to do checks.
     
  27. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Second try 159. No shoot. I’m really hoping he had eaten this morning before we got up.
    Logged the first 199 as +11 and second 159 as amps. I will get an afternoon test when I get back, then pmps and take it from there. If I don’t have to give insulin tonight I’m going to take up any leftover food before I go to bed.
     
  28. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully it was just food. Don't let it worry you...it could just be a fluke! Looking forward to seeing tonight's number!
     
  29. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Got a +5 at 109. Really feeling more confident that he must’ve eaten right before we got up this morning.
     
  30. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Pmps 128
    Moved back test/feed time one hour. He’s always hungry around that time and this way he’ll have more time to eat before I go to bed and isn’t sneaking an early morning meal and scaring me!
     
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  31. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Now that’s better! You may want to look into a timed feeder. You could put his food in there and set it to rotate to an empty compartment 2 hours before test time to deter his sneaky early morning snack!
     
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  32. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Amps 189.
    Positive he’s had no food for around 9 hours. I don’t know what to do. Should I give .25? I can watch him today.

    @Kris & Teasel if you’re not busy I need advise please. Should I go ahead and give him a small shot or give it another day?
     
  33. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    You could try 0.25 u if you're there to monitor.
     
  34. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Well boo, huh? He might just need a bit of insulin support still...it rarely happens that a cat suddenly goes OTJ, it's usually a more back and forth thing like you'll go a few days without, then need to give some, go a few days without, then need some...then eventually go all the way. So don't get discouraged! I think 0.25 and monitoring is a good plan too. :)
     
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  35. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Thank you! That’s what I was hoping but I haven’t seen anyone say it that way. That helps me feel better!
    That was my first instinct. Thank you for getting back to me so fast. I can check him all day today. Im home and armed with hundreds of test strips!
     
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  36. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Pmps 115 no shot tonight

    He had a pretty good curve today, but I’m wondering if the .25 was too aggressive? He was very hungry today which I think stopped him from going too low. I tried 1/4 can servings after testing but he kept wanting more. Second time he left a little bit but ate it an hour later after the next test, then was fine for a few hours. He had a fairly big drop the first couple hours and I think it was the extra food that kept it stable the rest of the day. Guess that’s what I get for questioning if he’s eating enough! 4 cans today! I might try a little less insulin next time though. I really worry if he hadn’t eaten the extra he would’ve gone low.
     
  37. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Hard to know what would have happened without the extra food but those green numbers were nice. Another micro dose people use could be called 0.10 u and you'd get it by filling the syringe up to what you think is 0.25 u or even a bit more and then let out insulin until the plunger just touches the bottom of the zero line. Make sure you push the plunger firmly once it's inside the kitty and keep pressure on it until it's out of him.
     
  38. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    I think that’s what I’ll do next time. Since he hadn’t had a shot in so long and dropped so low at +2 and +4 and was begging for food I didn’t want to not give him any. I think a micro like you described might not make him feel like he was starving and I would feel safer and not like I had to let him eat whatever he wanted. Another thing is if he is just creeping up a little like this morning, a micro like that might even be safe to do am and pm without worry so he can have a couple cycles back to back for more support instead of a big push then none again like I did tonight.
     
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  39. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    There is one dose even smaller than that 0.1u - we call it "a drop" - When you go to draw the dose, you push the plunger in firmly, then let go. It sucks in about one drop of insulin. Since it's such a small amount, it's good to practice a couple of times first, and make sure you're getting a drop in. It seems like nothing, but even one drop makes a difference.

    I would suggest trying 0.1u first, but if even that is too much know you have one more teeny tiny option :)
     
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  40. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Amps 186. Tried .10 and he dropped to 76 at +2 then came back up fairly quick. So it seems he reacts strongly to the smaller dose still, it just doesn’t last as long.
    We had a follow up at the vet today. Weight up just a little to 5.85 kg from 5.6 so I’m thinking food amount is perfect at least for now. The vet is happy with my testing and his numbers, but definitely against even the small doses on numbers under 200 and recommends not doing anything unless he goes over that. She says the 180-190 range can be considered acceptable normal for a diet controlled diabetic. I’m going to give it a try NOT dosing the 180’s and see what happens for a while. I wouldn’t feel safe giving him even the .10 if I wasn’t home testing so I want to try her advice and see where his numbers go. I always hear better to be little high than low so maybe I just need to just try to relax when I see those numbers for now.
    Edit: pmps is good only 114!
     
  41. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    You have to do what you feel good about doing. That "drop" dose that Djamila described is something to keep in your back pocket. He's doing really well! :)
     
  42. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I do understand the vet's caution, however around here we say that a diet-controlled diabetic should be between 50-120 on a human meter. A single cycle over that I can see holding off on a dose, but if you get a couple in a row that are too high, I would rather give a little insulin support. There is a difference between an "acceptable" range (most vets say anything under 200), and a healthy range. Of course it's up to you and we support you with whatever decision you make!
     
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  43. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Amps 170
    Going with no shot on this one. I think I want to see what happens after a few days without insulin again. Maybe he’ll go down again or maybe he’ll go a little higher where I would feel safer with the small doses.
    I feel at this point I’m getting more comfortable with his eating habits and how he reacts and I think that the 2 mornings with a little insulin might’ve helped to get him down to the 170 this morning. But, I’m still a little uneasy about the initial drop and don’t know if I would want to do that without being on top of him testing and feeding if I need to control it. I think I want to at least give it a chance her way and see what happens. See his reaction both ways and then make a decision.
     
  44. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    As Kris and Djamila have said it's your decision! You know Smokey best and have to be comfortable with what you do. I think giving it a few days to see what happens is fine...let's see how he reacts to no insulin and know that you can start giving insulin at any point if he doesn't lower on his own. :)
     
  45. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Yup, I agree with Rachel on that - it's worth giving it a try and seeing what happens. And sometimes mama-sense trumps what's "typical" around here. If your gut is telling you to give a few days off, I don't think it's going to hurt anything since his numbers aren't ridiculously high.
     
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  46. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I agree! I'd just add, though, that it's a good precaution to test for urine ketones.
     
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  47. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    I admit that other than at the vet when he was first diagnosed I haven’t checked for them. I don’t know if I have enough time to order a test kit before we move next month. Maybe @Greg and Goma & Friends has found a ketone test kit here and could point me in the right direction? Otherwise I will definitely have the clinic he will be staying with for quarantine test him. I’m expecting his numbers to go high from stress while he’s there so that’s something I make sure they watch out for.
    Amps this morning 124. No shot again. I took a +4 after food yesterday and he was looking good. I’m going to try for a +6 today, and scatter some more daytime tests over the next few days just to see what’s going on.
    Just curious, can having to poo or just recently pooing maybe cause a little spike like I saw the last few mornings? I’m probably grasping straws here, but he is a little constipated and does poo in the morning. I was happy with the lower number at +4 without insulin so looking for any cause for the higher am number. So far it seems out of line with the rest of the day. He eats all day and lower pmps numbers and apparently lower mid cycle too so I just don’t get it!
     
  48. G & I

    G & I Member

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    The testing strips I got from the local vet are from a company named Teruma. Amazon sells VET 10 strips that I ordered on line. Got them in about a week. I would also suggest checking with Animal Hospital 22 to see if they can get them as well. They seem fairly efficient and helpful.

    I do not have the test kit for blood samples.
     
  49. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Thanks! If it’s just a week I still have time to order then. I’ll look into that today.
     
  50. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Many people with constipated kitties find that it can raise BG.
     
  51. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes, constipation can raise BG. I hate admitting this, but I keep track of when Sam poops since he isn't a daily poop-er and he is consistently higher on non-poop days. And he'll go high and flat if he's overdue for a poop. If you do a search for it, you'll find lots of threads out in the Main forum about this very topic. o_O
     
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  52. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    I’m going to have a look. I’m really curious now if I can do something about that if it’ll bring his numbers down. I hate admitting it too! But with pets and kids poo habits never go unnoticed! He does go everyday with maybe the occasional skip here and there so it’s not too bad.
     
  53. G & I

    G & I Member

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    I’m at your vets now and they have ketone test strips and will sell them.
     
  54. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    You might want to try different doses AM and PM. Maybe up to 4 u daytime and down to 3.5 u night time?
     
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  55. G & I

    G & I Member

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    Just posted a help request on another thread. Have to head home soon leaving Dude for CT scan at 3.
     
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  56. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Thank you so much! I’ll pop in during their walk in hours and pick some up.
    Hope all is well with Dude!
     
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  57. G & I

    G & I Member

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    Hope you don't mind my asking them on your behalf. I had Goma with me as well as Dude due to her shot time. I had a feeling the doctor knew you and I mentioned Smokey - Everyone remembers you all. They let me do a quick test on Goma while there and I remembered you needing the strips so just thought I would ask. They could not quote me a price but I saw the strips and they'll certainly work for you.
     
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  58. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Of course I don’t mind! I’m very grateful! Thanks again!
     
  59. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I love that you guys share the same vet and can help each other out like that!
     
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  60. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    We’re still going strong!! He finally gave me green pmps 96 tonight!
     
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  61. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Amazing! You must be so happy! :D
     
  62. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    Today is 18 days from the first no shoot. Even with the 2 days he had a little support in the morning is it long enough to call OTJ?!?!?
    With my move coming up I’m not as worried about saying OTJ since I know it might change, as I am about testing. At this point there’s no way I would give him insulin at night with the numbers he’s been having so am I at a good point I can only test in the mornings, maybe one afternoon/ evening every few days just as a extra precaution?
     
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  63. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Wanted to say CONGRATULATIONS...I look at Smokey's spreadsheet and it gave me hope !!!
     
  64. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

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    It’s all because of this groups help. If I hadn’t started home testing and caught those lows on 2/5 and 2/7 is very likely he vet would’ve raised his dose at his next visit, especially if they only caught the bounce cycle like they did on the 6th. Any increase and I could’ve lost him. Because his bounce lasted more than 24 hours and his am/pm were high so they wanted to increase and the ONLY thing that saved him and got us where we are was testing regularly at home!
     
  65. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    I'd say it's close enough - especially since he was barely on insulin for six weeks.

    So here's the deal: Smokey will always be diabetic, but now he's a diet controlled diabetic. That means that if at any time he starts eating higher carb food he can relapse. It also means that something as simple as a dental issue or a UTI can cause a relapse, so you want to stay on top of teeth cleanings and any emerging health issues as soon as you notice them.

    Pet food makers are the worst about being transparent, so don't trust what you read on the labels. If you are ever moving to a new food, check the food list, write/call the company, ask on here -- check and double check future food choices to make absolutely sure they are okay.

    As far as checking BG, I would check once/day for a few more days just because of that 152 a couple of days ago. Then you can go to testing once/week. And after about three months, you can move to once every two weeks. At that point, put it in your calendar with reminder alarms because as time goes by, it gets really easy to forget.

    A relapse is much harder to get back into remission than the first time, so if he does come out of remission, you want to catch it as soon as possible and get him back on insulin. If at any point you suspect something, or notice extra drinking/peeing, test. If he's acting funny, test. If he's been stressed (your upcoming move), test.

    There aren't even words for how happy I am for you and Smokey! You've done such a good job of learning about all of this and doing what he needed to get to a healthier, happier place. Congratulations to you both, and may he have many healthy, diabetes free years ahead!

    Please stop by sometimes and give us updates, and share a word of encouragement for new folks as they join!
     
  66. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2018
    Thank you!!!
    I want to still keep testing regularly at least once a day or at least every couple days through the next month. When we move in the beginning of April I need to be absolutely sure how he’s holding up before he goes into quarantine so I can make a better decision how to treat any jump in numbers while he’s there. I’ll probably ask for help when that time comes.
    I’m not too worried about the 152 the other day. I woke up to him starting to throw up at the foot of my bed but I was just too tired and went to make coffee before cleaning it up (don’t judge me lol) and by the time I went back he had eaten it. Totally gross but I know that was why the high number and I checked extra that day to be sure.

    I can’t thank everybody enough!
     
  67. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    :eek::eek::eek:

    True confession: I have also stepped over puke piles a time or two. And one night Sam tried to eat Atty's puke. :confused: Cats have no shame.

    I think your plan sounds good to make sure you know what's up before starting the quarantine.
     
    Magic Johnson likes this.
  68. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    CONGRATS!!!!!!

    Yeah we’ve all stepped over the puke before. I’ve taken to rushing to clean it but only because Oreo runs over too...to eat it. :stop:
     
  69. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    What's with cats eating vomit?! I've had that happen here too. :stop: I've learned that wiping off the worst of it and letting the rest dry makes it easier to clean off carpet - after a good going over with the vacuum on the dry stain. Not much left then. ;)
     
    Magic Johnson likes this.
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