Food brands high in calories to gain weight!

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Jena4277, Dec 30, 2017.

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  1. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    hi - polling the forum for specific names of wet food high in calories to help my bony girl gain weight. She is on ff classics and I know ff kitten has higher calorie content, but if anyone knows of a brand I can get ASAP that is even higher in calories for a 3oz can let me know. I looked at the spreadsheet and it is overwhelming. I saw Evo but wondering if anyone has tried anything else with success that I can go to store to buy and not order online. Thanks!
     
  2. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I've seen recommendations for IAMS Max Cal here for cats recovering from DKA. My understanding is that it's very calorie-dense. I have no idea of the carb content, though. I'm a bit rusty but I think that I've also seen recommendations for Evo Cat & Kitten.

    Does your little one have a very small appetite?


    Mogs
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  3. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    No. I am in the process of figuring out why she is so thin. Just above 6lbs. I want to substitute some high cal food in the meantime. The vet ran lots of tests but nothing alarming. Thanks for your input.
     
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  4. Mandy & Rex

    Mandy & Rex Well-Known Member

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    I just found out yesterday Evo was bought out by another company and is being discontinued. :(
     
  5. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    How many calories is Abby eating per day at present?

    Do you leave food down for her all the time?

    If you meal feed instead of free feeding, do you think she would eat more if she had the opportunity (e.g. does she frequently pester you to feed her when there's no grub available)?


    Mogs
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  6. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    B***er.

    Unfettered capitalism, eh? If it isn't broke, we'll either:

    1. "improve" it [*cough*].

    2. abolish it.

    :banghead:


    Mogs
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  7. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Yes food is out all the time. The problem is when her sugar is lowest she’s usually sleeping the day away and not eating to get the nutrients. I did a curve today and it wasn’t so good so I will have to play with the dosage and ask my Vet about switching to ProZinc which I heard is gentler. She has huge dives and they don’t last long enough for any calories to get absorbed. Today I heated her food which she loved and I got her to eat when her peak time was and then she vomited it all up... she had a vomiting spell a few weeks ago and had a sensitive stomach. I bought kitten food today to start mixing with her food but it has milk product in it which i am
    Afraid will do more harm than good. I am going to suck it up and buy Hills a/d. Urgent care bc from the reviews it seems to put on weight for many cars that need it in a short period of time.
     
  8. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    Hi,
    the ff classic pates are excellent choice but you are right - they are somewhat lower in caloric value side.. I , personally, prefer Tiki Cat poultry flavors - 104 or 107 Kcal pet 2.8 ox can (V. FF 85 - 90 Kcal per the same size). Con: price. Available now at Petco stores, or Kahoots (or any other pet specialty store). If a cat has low activity level and does not go outside - 2 cans 2.8 oz each of Tiki will get her some good gain.

    When my girls was underweight we feed her 2 1/4 or 2 1/5 can of 5.5 oz Friskies - no fish flavors and she gained nicely in about 5 - 6 weeks. But she is a "couch potato" cat. Feeding that much of Friskies will help to gain weight..

    HOWEVER..

    weight gain and loss is linked to the BG levels - if too high cats cannot process/ absorb the nutrients properly and no matter how much they actually eat - the weight loss will go on. It'd imperative to get the BG levels down somewhat/ stabilized relatively lower to get them to gain.

    I am sorry but the SS is blank since October 2017 - perhaps my PC doesn't show it properly?

    It is hard to form an opinion if there is no data...
     
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  9. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    BOpe. Haven’t tested her since then due to other issues like her vomiting A UTI, and mypersonal schedule. I did a curve today. This is what it looks like.

    4:45 377 1.25u
    6:30 358
    8:00. 257
    9:30. 190
    11:00. 188
    Vomit after eating a lot
    Ate more around noon
    12:33. 316
    2:30. 392

    Basically the Vetsulin only lasts til about noon then is gone. Here is my plan

    1. Go with 1.5 tomorrow since I am off of work and take some numbers
    2. I bought blue wildnerness after reading food chart- it is high in calories. I did see the tiki but didn’t see it on the chart. I will start slowing feeding her that until I can get hills from Vet.
    3. As you said regardless of the food her sugar is not right so it won’t help. I asked my Vet about ProZinc after reading about it and she was hesitant to switch. I am calling them Tuesday and demanding that I switch bc she isn’t doing well on Vetsulin and needs a lower bg for longer. She has too steep a dive. Hopefully I can get that, and combined with high cal food and the insulin in a few weeks she will gain weight. I will pull some numbers for her tomorrow but it has been a pattern that by 12/1pm the Insulin is out of her system.

    The vet also wants to draw urine to make sure there is no lingering infection after her UTI.
     
  10. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    I won't pretend to be a pro (exp w/ Vetsulin - I used once only) but the curve you've posted isn't bad at all..really...

    The ProZ is good insulin but the Lantus (Glargine) - I am using it - is even better for cats and if you buy it from a Canadian Pharmacy (tell me if you want a link) it'll come up to almost the same cost as a vile of ProZ.

    I really, really doubt - the Hill's is good... Open a new thread soliciting opinions on it - and then you'll decide. I honestly think it's not good for cats. But it's up to you, of course.
    Vetsulin is well known to steep dives - so might be Proz.. Lantus or Levemir, the long acting, the depot style insulin might be better for getting flat-ish, gradual curves, but are by far more expensive in the US...
    I attach the 2017 chart - with Tiki Cat in - by Dr. Pierson.
    Well, that makes perfect sense! Ask your vet also to check for a ketones presence in her urine - there shouldn't be any extra charge for that!
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Really? Oh!

    For her to not have insulin in her system for 4 hours before the next shot when she seeks out food worries me. She is only under 200 for a couple hours, doesn’t eat during that time, and eats when her sugar is higher and nothing can be absorbed. I don’t know what else to think about why she is losing weight. I guess I can get an ultrasound to see if there are tumors or something on her kidneys...

    Her curves have always been like that. The lowest she goes is around 180 on average and by 1pm she is back up high.

    I do check for ketones but honestly idk what I’m looking at. The thing changes colors so fast if I blink I’m afraid I’ll read it wrong.

    What would be the biggest difference for a Vetsulin user switching to Lantus? Anything I can do or can’t do with Vetsulin that I can/can’t do with Lantus or another one?

    Yes send me the CA link so I can look at it.

    Thanks so much!
     
  12. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    ALso I am looking around at posts about ProZinc and Lantus and it seems ProZinc is a little more flexible sort of like Vetsulin with dosage and it just lasts longer whereas the other two Ls have carryover effects. I may find it easier on my sanity to switch to ProZinc as what I am looking for is a longer lasting Insulin that isn’t so restricting.
     
  13. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Iams discontinued MaxCal last year. ER vet I went to was very bummed out about that.:(

    Low carb/higher calorie foods include Wellness Core Chicken/Turkey/Chicken Liver, Weruva Glam N Punk, a lot of the Wild Calling brands. Just to name a few in the W's. For my money, I found raw food has more calories per volume than most wet foods.
     
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  14. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    It never rains ... :(

    Thanks for the suggestions for alternatives, Wendy. Will bookmark this thread for future reference.


    Mogs
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  15. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    @Jena4277 -

    You're spot on about the Vetsulin. While some cats can do OK on it (and some even achieve remission), it most typically produces the bucket-shaped glucose curve with steep drops that can make safe dosing really tricky and also steep climbs that leave a kitty poorly-regulated the rest of each cycle. I had the same issue with Saoirse.

    Switching to an insulin with longer duration in cats (e.g. Lantus, Levemir, Prozinc) is a smart move.

    I note from one of your posts above that Abby is very sleepy when the Vetsulin is at peak effect. Saoirse experienced similar on this insulin (branded Caninsulin in the UK). She was out of it for 9-10 hours of each cycle, only perking up as the dose wore off. This lethargy (and also lack of sociability) disappeared after I switched her to Lantus. I think the wild, fast swings in BG typical of Caninsulin/Vetsulin were making her feel dreadful. She actually started hiding in the most inaccessible place she could find when it was time for her Caninsulin injection, but she never tried to avoid her Lantus jabs and she went back to being a happy kitty again. Maybe Abby might be less sleepy when she gets onto an insulin that agrees with her better. I hope so. :)


    Mogs
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  16. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I got Blue Wilderness from petco but I did have these on my list as well. Thanks !
     
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  17. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I am now wondering if Abby is developing pancreatitis or has had it for a while. How does the Vet test for that? Do I need an ultrasound/xray to see if it is enlarged? Or is it in blood tests?
     
  18. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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  19. Amy74

    Amy74 New Member

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    Hi. I'm new to this community. I have a 14 year old female cat with diabetes. She's on Glyburide and her BG does very well on it. Over the last little while I had switched her from Friskies pate to the DM dry from the vet and she has been losing weight. She so thin now I'm trying my hardest to get weight back on her. I'm not in a financial situation at the moment to be able to spend a lot on different tests, etc. (Husband left and stay at home mom trying to get a job with no help from ex while paying for the divorce). Any most recommended high cal food that will help her not suffer would be greatly appreciated. I'm Canadian and not sure if the same brands are in the US and Canada. Not even sure if this is a US or Canadian based community? Just trying to do my best with what I've been handed. When it rains it pours
     
  20. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    I too am from Canada - a lot of the brands available in the US are available here. I would return the DM dry and go back to the Friskies pate. Low carb wet food is better.

    We have members from around the world here.
     
  21. Amy74

    Amy74 New Member

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    Jan 3, 2018
    Thank you for responding! What about a different brand? I am desperately trying to get the weight on her. It's odd though, even though she is so thin, she likes to lie in the bay window in front of the one I keep cracked. If I close it, she gets annoyed with me. You'd think she would be cold with these crazy temps we've been having.
     
  22. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Does Abby exhibit any signs of nausea? Helpful info here:

    Nausea and appetite problems - symptoms and treatments

    I think perhaps the switch to a different, longer-acting insulin so as to improve BG regulation is what may be the thing that best helps Abby to regain weight. The new insulin may agree with her better and reduce the mid-cycle lethargy. (The difference between Saoirse on Caninsulin and Saoirse on Lantus was like night and day.

    The only other thing I can suggest (brainstorming here) might be to ask your vet about a course of vitamin B12 (can help appetite and nutrient absorption, and has an anti-inflammatory effect) and possibly an appetite stimulant for use ad hoc to encourage Abby to eat a little more. Cyproheptadine is much milder than the more popular mirtazapine. It can be given every eight hours if needed but frequently a sliver of a 4mg tablet is all that's needed to perk up appetite. It can cause a little drowsiness (it's an antihistamine) but on a suitably low dose the drowsiness should wear off fairly quickly (c. 1 hour in my girl's case).

    (NB: Cyproheptadine is contraindicated for use in cats with liver problems, elevated blood pressure, and glaucoma. More info here.)


    Mogs
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  23. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Thanks. Yes she is known to vomit.
    I switched her to Hills k/d because apparently her kidney values are in worse shape and her pancreas is actually pretty darn good. Soooo after all this high protein diet stuff she needs LOW protein and I can only find Rx brands. And of course she didn’t eat her Hills after mixing it with her other food and vomited bile bc she had nothing in her stomach....and I bought 12 cans. I will try to return to vet and get morsels. I know diabetics shouldn’t have gravy morsels but pates- in your opinion how bad would this decision be? Who knows if she’ll even eat that either....
     
  24. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Is this advice coming from your vet? Has Abby been officially diagnosed with kidney insufficiency/chronic kidney disease? The reasons I ask this are two-fold:

    1. For cats with CKD, more 'old school' thinking leads them to be prescribed low-protein prescription renal diets even in the early stages of the disease. One of the problems CKD cats have is muscle wastage and switching to a low protein diet when it's not really necessary can actually worsen body condition problems. (Registering with the online support groups at Yahoo and Tanya's Site will get you more advice from experienced CKD kitty caregivers. They're very good at interpreting lab results, too.) Bearing in mind that you're trying to help Abby regain weight, a switch to a lower protein diet (unless absolutely medically necessary) could prove highly counterproductive. I also imagine that the carb content in the k/d would be above the recommended range for FD kitties. More recently, the approach to diet in early stage CKD cats is to closely monitor and control phosphorus levels (unless other markers are seriously out of whack) as this can do much to slow progress of the disease. It may be possible to keep phosphorus at an acceptable level through diet control but if that's not possible or the disease is more advanced then phosphorus binders can be added to the food.

    2. It is not uncommon for cats fed a high protein diet to have BUN/urea levels a little bit higher than the top end of the normal laboratory reference range (dig round Tanya's Site for more info). Diabetic-friendly wet foods are typically high in protein, moderate in fat, and low in carbohydrates. Slightly elevated BUN/urea levels on their own are not necessarily a sign of the presence of kidney insufficiency.

    If the regular lab results are inconclusive regarding kidney function you could ask your vet to order an SDMA assay. It's a new test from IDEXX. They claim that it can potentially detect signs of CKD when only 40% of kidney function has been impaired (cf. detection at about 70-75% impairment for more traditional tests).

    It might be advisable to start a new thread, post Abby's lab results and ask members with experience of kidney issues to have a look at them for you, and also to register with the reputable CKD support groups to get specialist, experience-based input from them.


    Great! I'm assuming you've had a Spec fPL test done and maybe an ultrasound? What were the results/findings?

    However, CKD and pancreatitis are just two conditions which may cause nausea and/or affect appetite in cats. Other causes include (but are not limited to):

    * diet change.

    * medication side effects (e.g. antibiotics).

    * fasting too long between meals (usually produces frothy liquid vomitus due to stomach acid build-up).

    * ketosis/DKA.

    * inflammatory bowel disease.

    * hyperthyroidism.

    * hairballs.

    * constipation/poor gut motility. (NB: may need to briefly treat first with Reglan before Cerenia or ondansetron will work properly.)

    * "scarf 'n' barf" (cat eats too quickly then regurgitates the meal).

    Due to the way that a cat's metabolism works it is vital that they eat regularly otherwise they can quickly develop hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver disease - potentially fatal). While it may take a lot of trial, error and time to identify (and hopefully resolve) the actual cause(s) of any nausea/inappetance problem the important thing is to promptly treat the cat's eating difficulties (anti-nausea/appetite stimulants/diet change/other) in order to keep it safe and regain weight if needed. This is even more true for diabetic cats who need insulin because, for them, appetite problems make it more difficult to administer sufficient insulin and there's also the risk of developing diabetic ketoacidosis, another potentially life-threatening condition. At a lesser level, it can be more difficult to safely dose underweight cats because they don't have sufficient stores of sugars in the body to adequately protect them from hypoglycaemia when insulin therapy brings their BG down into lower number ranges (a condition called 'brittle' diabetes in humans).


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    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  25. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    She vomited three times today and ate practically nothing. I will call vet for nausea med and appetite stimulant. I am just switching her diet now and she is not eating it. I put some old food mixed in with new and she still does not go for it. If anything she licks like five times and doesn’t return. The only other possibility on that list is a thyroid problem as she is teetering on the edge of that as well. The amount of food that I am putting down the drain is so much money. I have tried sprinkling cheese, mixing some chicken broth, heating it up, and she wants to eat I can tell but smacks her lips sniffs and walks away. She is going to the water bowl instead of the food bowl. She must be dehydrated.

    Good point about the protein issue when she needs to gain weight. Will discuss with vet tomorrow.
     
  26. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    These are classic clinical signs of nausea.

    If you have ketone strips at home, get a urine test ASAP. If not either get some ketone strips and test her at home in the morning or get her to the vet for testing there. This is doubly important because Abby has a history of DKA. Cats who've developed ketone problems in the past are typically more prone to them going forward. Indeed, if Abby were mine I'd probably prefer to have the vet give her a physical exam tomorrow to check for any possible infections or other issues (again as a protective measure against potential DKA) and also to make sure she's got no problems with bowel obstruction or constipation (the latter being another cause of nausea/inappetence but may need a couple of doses of metoclopramide (aka Reglan) to help restore normal gut motility before regular anti-nausea/appy stimulant meds will be effective).


    Mogs
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  27. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Thank you for your reply. The vet just did a urine test and the results were that there was still some underlying bacteria from UTI so she’s on two more weeks of meds. He said very small amount of bacteria. She’s not constipated because she pooped twice today very substantial probably due to the change in diet that she had been eating more yesterday. She has been pooping normally and the vet did check for bowel obstructions on the last visit. I just had a cry session because this is overwhelming, and it’s always something new with her. I am definitely calling tomorrow to get the supplements. Thanks.
     
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  28. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Also I did give a reduced amount of insulin because at 1 o’clock her sugar was 320 and just an hour ago when I tested it was 420. Her stomach is making gurgle noises poor thing. I just hope the vet is open tomorrow bc of this huge blizzard we got here in the northeast. I will also check for ketones and the vet did mention sugar in the urine which is not uncommon for her but not enough to cause alarm.
     
  29. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    The sugar in the urine could possibly be helping to prolong the UTI (feeds the bugs).
    Ain't it just. We all understand that feeling so well ...

    :bighug::bighug::bighug:

    I found food/eating/GI issues much harder to deal with than insulin treatment in and of itself.

    Fingers and paws crossed that the vet'll be open on the morrow. Keep safe in the extreme weather.


    Mogs
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  30. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Hi
    Abby started eating small amounts around 9pm last night after I raised the bowl to the level of her face after reading that suggestion online. She has been more inclined to go to the bowl now that it is on a very tall shoebox but she isn’t eating nearly as much as she should. No vomit since she started “eating” around 9 las night.
    Vet said to try Pepcid and to hold off switching to new food for a few days.
    Her bg was lower this morning about 320 and I just checked before her PM feeding and it was 420. I did give reduced insulin this AM.
    I’m not sure if the nausea is kidney related or acid related....
    Pepcid was hard to admin. I used a syringe and put it with some water and she took it but not before I had to chase her down the stairs.
    I really don’t know what to do from here and I do not have a support system in my household. I’m trying to take one day at a time.
     
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  31. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Hi Jena, I am so very about the hard times and Abby are going thru! :bighug:
    I used Pepcid for my cat ONLY when she vomited clear/ whitey foam on an empty stomach.. Pepcid does not help with being nauseous.. Cerenia, a pet pill available from vets usually does well in combination with Pepcid..(there are also human meds suitable for cats and very effective) It's always good to have anti nausea and appetite stimulant meds in one's meds chest - just in case...
    The symptoms as you have described are vaguely remind of a pancreatic flare, have you vet mentioned anything about such possibility?
    If you can only start a spreadsheet - it'll be so much easier to understand what's going on...
    Did you give the reduce dose due to her not eating properly?
    I quite understand but too little food + not enough insulin= might bring about very bad side effects, like ketones development.
    1 day at the time is best strategy in most life circumstances..
    You have us now for support! Let me assure you it's quite a lot!:)

    I'd start a SS - and enter in there every reading you have done so far, include the food given and at what time and amounts in the Remark section of the SS. This way we all can put our heads together and think that thing over.
    I could never got my SS running - someone here set it up for me and taught me how to use it - please let us know if you need help with it.
     
  32. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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  33. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I can't recommend ondansetron highly enough for treatment of feline nausea.


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  34. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Did your vet run a Spec fPL test for pancreatitis? If yes, what was the result?


    Mogs
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  35. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    sorry, but all I can see in the SS is the last entry dated October 2017...
    My PC is old and may not be functioning properly...
    Are there any later data?
     
  36. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Im not sure what tests were run.
     
  37. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I take her bg when I can but don’t write it down. This was a curve from monday:
    4:45 377 1.25u

    6:30 358

    8:00. 257

    9:30. 190

    11:00. 188

    Vomit after eating a lot

    Ate more around noon

    12:33. 316

    2:30. 392

    4:00. 411 1.25u at 4:30

    Increased to 1.5 for a couple of days and her bg went to the 150s at Nadir.
    Now I decreased it more bc of her appetite.
     
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  38. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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  39. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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  40. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    thanks for the info , Jena! Any chance you'll update the SS to 2018, please?
    :)
    ketones are not good and the reduced eating +reduced insulin dose might have contributed. You may really want to get on top/ tight control over the eating and dosing to avoid DKA.
    My girl had ketones - no fun and too $$$ if let unattended.
    Easier to address at home - reasonably aggressively.
     
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  41. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I understand but I am battling a lot at once and I am just trying to get her back eating normally again. I get that all these things relate but I’m trying to prioritize and it’s the weekend and vet closes early tomorrow and I’m back to work Monday so I really am just trying my best.
     
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  42. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    How can I address her bg agressively right now?? It’s just not an option She’s not even eating enough to cover a reduced dose of insulin.
     
  43. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    She just had her first dose of ProZinc btw. Is there any more I can add to this mix :( to make it more complicated
     
  44. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    :bighug::bighug::bighug:
    I know..I've been there.
    I meant recording all of the BG reading into a Speread Sheet (SS) and let us mull over it... Then an idea might spring out as to what is the best way to proceed.
    :bighug:Of course is it complex... Very much so.

    If I can have a look at a sequence of the BG numbers throughout the last days + if I'd known what Abby has eaten at those test's times+ I'd known the current dose+ I'd known the ketone's test reading = I might be off better, the more practical help to you both than I am now.

    By aggressive I meant testing - posting in the SS, testing - posting, etc.
    It is always very complicated in the beginning.
    And it is not.
    :bighug: Please believe me I know too well the frustration you are finding yourself in now...

    PS. Have you tried grating a bit of a Parmesan cheese on to her foods?
    It stimulates a lot of cats to eat..
    A powdered version will do just fine, too - very little at a time, though..
     
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  45. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi Amy and welcome to you and your kitty.

    The majority of members are based in the US and Canada but there are members from all round the world in the FDMB community. (I'm in the UK.) Consequently we can often provide help and suggestions for things local to members in different countries (e.g. lists of diabetic foods available, recommendations for where to buy meters, syringes and testing supplies, etc., etc.).


    Mogs
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  46. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Aug 8, 2017
    I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your help and support but I have tried everything under the sun to get her to eat. She sniffs it and walks away. She wants to eat. But cant.
    I left a vm for vet that I want to pick up nausea and appetite stimulants tomorrow before they close. This is just a lot of meds to try to get in a cat that doesn’t like being handled so much.
     
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  47. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    This is good news.


    Mogs
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  48. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2017
    OK, let's split the problem into two smaller tasks: one is that you are getting meds/ or RX for meds from the vet.Nothing to do but wait;
    2nd : how to get meds into an uncooperative cat?: I have extra pill gun and extra pill pockets - I can easily share by mail - both helps a lot in pilling a cat.

    Let me know if you are interested by PM (click on my avatar, a window will pop up - click on Start Conversation) - and rest is between you and me - like your shipping address, and such.
     
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  49. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2017
    I have tried pill pockets, no success. For Pepcid I gave today I had to grind it and inject it in her mouth with water in syringe. I don’t mind doing it by mouth as long as I can grind it without messing with nature of med. Thanks for your suggestion.

    She just ate about a 1/3 of a small can. Small win.
     
  50. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Here's a very good vid about pilling technique:



    The vet explains and demonstrates really well how to tilt the cat's head back to the best angle, how to get the cat's mouth open, and where to place the pill.

    Choose one spot for giving pills and stick to it. This will make the cat feel more relaxed overall in the rest of the home.

    Follow all pills with a water chaser (use syringe or pipette, a little at a time with a pause to allow the kitty to swallow, always across the tongue) or, if the cat is eating well, with a food chaser. Watch to make sure the cat doesn't spit out the pill when your back's turned.


    Mogs
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    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
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  51. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2017
    small builds built Olimpics.
    I again urge to test and post but mainly to let me know if extra syringes for feeding/ medicating will help.
     
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  52. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2017
    @Critter Mom she just vomited again. May have to take her into vet for IV fluids tomorrow.
     
  53. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    @Jena4277 -

    Hi Jena,

    I've only just seen this (very poorly at the moment). Sorry for not replying sooner.

    How's Abby? Did you get her to the vets?


    Mogs
    .
     
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  54. billysmom (GA)

    billysmom (GA) Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2015
    I bit into a pepsid tablet once. It was BAD. My mouth foamed and I thought I might throw up. It would be best if you could hide it somehow. When I gave it to my cat I wrapped it in a small amount of cheese and he pretty much swallowed it whole. It was small, only a 1/4 of a tab so it didn't take much cheese.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
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  55. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2017
    She was getting her apetite back after the vet gave her a cerenia shot on saturday morning. She ate a good amount sat and sunday and even over night last night.
    I pilled her this morning with a 1/4 tablet per my vet, and clavamox for her UTI and insulin. I just got a text that its possible she vomited.
    hi. Vet gave Abby a cerenia shot that lasted two days and gave me pills too. She ate more on Sat and Sunday, not a huge amount, but definitely was seeking out food.
    A couple of problems arose: she has not pooped since Saturday. Her stool on thurs and Friday when she wasn’t eating was very soft (not runny), smelly and light brown/yellowish. She hasn’t had a normal stool since. I have added water to her food as always and she has been peeing normally as far as I can tell.
    According to my mother, she vomited today and was exhibiting seclusion behaviors. I came home and she went to eat at her bowl for quite a while, groomed her body, and now is curled up asleep on my bed.
    I called my vet just now. According to her there are so many variables with her that it’s hard to tell what the vomiting is from. She had no ketones in her urine (phew) but like I said kidney and thyroid values are elevated slightly.
    She told me to stop giving the UTI meds bc it’s just Trace bacteria and she can’t tell if that clavamox is what is making her sick. All in all, my vet just doesn’t know. She said to tackle the constipation issue with this laxative paste she has at the office. What would work faster - paste or pumpkin?
    She said to try a curve bc maybe the PZI is affecting her. I have only been giving highest 1.0 since she has been eating more. Last thurs and fri I gave .5. I can’t do a curve bc of work - is a curve at night better than no curve at all? I can’t do one until Saturday ...
    Also debating whether or not to go to get an ultrasound ($$$) tonight. My vet said it would just show masses or blockages and not really diagnose her vomiting issues.
    The constipation is what is worrying me the most right now.
     
  56. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2017
    @Critter Mom updates:

    I gave lactulose, she didn’t take full dose, and like a 1/8 tsp of miralax around 6. ...she just pooped a normal poo at 9...:bighug:I may expect more tomorrow:nailbiting: due to the dose I gave her as I suspect three hours is a little too fast for it to do it’s job....not sure.
    Her eating routine is all crazy. She eats right before and right after her shot time but I give it anyway bc she is high. Testing in the lower 400s, and for months she tested in the lower 300s at shot time, so this is a scary change. Im trying to be optimistic with ProZinc. Just giving her 1u until i can curve her...
    She ate just about a can and a half over the course of today. The most she’s eaten in a week. Idk what that vomit was. The shot seemed to work better than the pill but I guess it’s holding her for now.
     
  57. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Re the Clavamox, antibiotics can sometimes cause GI upsets. (They certainly can in humans!)

    Constipation can be one cause of vomiting. Learn more about constipation and general gut health at:

    felineconstipation.org

    That is often a sign that fat is not being digested properly and it might point to problems with the pancreas. Did your vet run a Spec fPL test for pancreatitis at all?

    For future reference, a Cerenia injection only gives anti-nausea cover for 24 hours, not 48 hours.

    Glad Abby is eating a bit better. :)


    Mogs
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  58. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Just wanted to share a trick that helped me pill an impossible cat. I crushed it and mixed it with watered down pate and basically syringe fed him to get it down. Tastes better than just water and the pill. Well, I'm assuming that but the lack of summoning the devil afterwards was proof enough for me. :)
    I'm not sure if anyone answered yet, but a curve at night is a good start. You can do spot checks or curves during the day when you have a day off.
    With prozinc, the +2 or +3 number will usually tell you if you'll have an active cycle. Meaning you will see a nice reduction in BG numbers that cycle, in a perfect world they won't be too much or too little... But here we are in a much less than perfect world:D
    I hope you can figure out her health issues and get her eating normally on a regular basis. :bighug:
    Edited to add: my cat needed to gain weight too. I fed him 2 cans a day with snacks of Young Again Zero Mature dry food. That stuff is calorie dense and really started his weight gain. Took us 7 months to gain 2 pounds. If you have a kibble addict it might not be a good idea because she might not want wet food again. But if she will eat both and be happy with some dry snacks it could be worth looking into once you get her current health issues settled.
     
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  59. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2017
    @Critter Mom @Tanya and Ducia
    Hi again. Not sure where to start. The nausea seemed to subside and Abby was ravenous for about two weeks, back to normal. Then this weekend her appetite has diminished, but she’s not doing the same signs of nasuea as before...she is begging for food, and then when I give it, she eats a dime amount and walks away. She comes to the kitchen for table scraps every night I am cooking bc she smells it. She will eat a few and walk away. She does not eat nearly enough at shot time but I still have to give it in hopes that within the hour she revists the bowl. By the time I get home, it is 90% empty so she has eaten a whole can. My mom says she does come down for food, but only eats for a second and walks away. We heat up the food, add water to it, sprinkle some cheese on top, added can chicken at one point to entice her, all sorts of things. But I cannot get her to eat a normal meal for a good 3-5 minutes. She has not gained any weight and is still an emaciated 6lbs.
    She has also been very active. All over the house, jumping up on furniture like it’s no problem, wanting to go outside to play, down the cellar where her old litter box used to be...I’m not sure what is going on with her.
    She is pooping normally. She does still vomit ocassionally, at the same time at night at about 1am with no food in her stomach.
    The new insulin has been a rollercoaster. I have no idea what happened Sunday to give her a hypo event although she turned out ok. I was very sick this past week with bronchitis in bed so I did my best to test her when I could and was shocked on Sunday and was thinking the NyQuil I took was giving me four eyes.
    She is currently meowing for food when she has a full dish in her room that she hasn’t touched. This is the same food she always has had. Any suggestions? Should I try a different brand? I have no idea anymore.
    More blood tests? Her last one was first week in December....wait a couple days to see if things change? Idk.... any support appreciated.
     
  60. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2017
    I AM also considering spending the money on an ultrasound and seeing if there is any mass on her brain causing her to revert back to her “younger years” when I say she is jumping all over, she couldn’t jump up on furniture for a year bc of her painful arthritis and now she is jumping like she has no pain. I am wondering if she has a pituitary tumor or something causing her to act so differently.
     
  61. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2017
    @Critter Mom @Tanya and Ducia
    Hi again. Can u check my spreadsheet? Twice now that she has been too low for a dose. I read in the stickies that skipping doses on PZI isn’t the best thing. I am going to try .75 for a couple of cycles instead of the 1. Her eating is so inconsistent that I’m not sure what to do.
     
  62. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Jena,

    My own health isn't great so I've only just seen your posts.

    Re the increased activity levels, I'd suggest asking your vet to do some blood work including a check on thyroid levels (hyperthyroid kitties can become very active - just throwing ideas out here).

    Re the inconsistency when it comes to eating if Abby is hungry but only eats very little that can be a typical behaviour in a cat who has nausea issues. I'd suggest asking the vet about ondansetron or Cerenia to help with that assuming that she's pooping easily and regularly, otherwise get the vet to double check for any signs of constipation as that, too, can lead to nausea and reluctance to eat (and sometimes vomiting). Note that some vets can be hesitant about prescribing ondansetron or Cerenia if a cat isn't vomiting much but just because a potentially nauseated cat doesn't vomit most of the time those medications can be extremely beneficial when non-emetic nausea is creating difficulties sufficient to leave a kitty unable to eat enough.

    I can't help on the PZI side of things as I've never used that insulin. I suggest you start a new thread on the Prozinc/PZI ISG board and include a link to this thread in the opening post o members can get a feel for Abby's history. It's a very friendly group with some experienced members who should be able to help you on that side of things. Here's the link to the group:

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/


    Mogs
    .
     
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  63. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I suggest you do a curve at the 1 u dose this weekend to get a feel for its full action over a cycle. It's hard to know what it's doing with very little middle of the cycle data. You also need to build up enough data to know how low your "no shot" number can safely be so you don't skip shots unnecessarily. When you get a PS like your recent 162 you can stall without feeding for 20 minutes or so, retest and if the BG is rising, give the full dose. You can repeat this stall up to 3 times for a total of an hour's delay in shot time. You also have the option of giving a reduced dose at a lower than expected PS. There are no carved in stone rules, just things to try, get the data, build up your SS and use it to make decisions the next time you encounter a similar situation. You can also post for advice. :)
     
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  64. Lillie

    Lillie Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    So sorry to hear of the difficulties you're having right now. I know how frustrating this can be because I've been there several times over. I'm curious as to why the vet felt that an ultrasound would not be able to explain the vomiting? If there are any enlarged thickened intestinal walls, or inflamed lymph nodes it certainly could explain vomiting, as seen in IBD cats. After having an IBD cat (second one now) I always ask for an abdominal ultra sound to be done.
     
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  65. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2017
    THANks for you’re response. Has stopped vomiting and is back to eating a good amount again. But she is not gaining any weight. I am worried she will starve to death. I am on new PZI insulin and the pretests are just not as low as I thought they’d be this far in. Doing a curve this weekend to see if I should up the 1u dose.
     
  66. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    A curve at the 1 u dose will give you good baseline data. It's hard to say right now whether that dose is OK or needs to go up. I suggest you post on the ProZinc forum where you can get more specific help with dosing. :)
     
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