Frank is still bouncy

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Frank's Mom, Apr 29, 2017.

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  1. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Ok, so my goal was to try the 11/13 cycle and hold at 3.75 for a week. Tomorrow is day 7. AMPS has varied since we hit 3.5U and up, with some of the highest AM numbers scattered around since then. PMPS have been all over the board a bit, too, but over all lower in recent weeks, and the lowest when we were doing 12/12 cycles on 4U. Any thoughts on where I should go from here? I'm inclined to think we need to go back to 12/12, and wonder if we're getting bouncing numbers (did I miss a good dose somewhere because of bouncing?), insulin resistance numbers, or...we're just not where we need to be yet, dose wise (although 4U seemed like it might be too high). Would love to hear the input of the board, and any advice you all have!
     
  2. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    You've had a couple of good cycles on 3.75 - 4/21 and 4/25 and some PS numbers that look like bounces, but also be from waiting until +13 for the dose. I agree that going back to 12/12 would be better if your schedule allows it. And stick with the 3.75 until he's had a few cycles to readjust. Then maybe consider a dose change. But as Kris says....only change one variable at a time.
     
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  3. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Definitely only one at a time. I think I took all the thoughts and trials and things that worked for other people and tried to do it all at once with Frank. So back to 12/12, on 3.75U, for Sunday-Wednesday I think. I can get more tests in the evenings, so those will have to be my curves during the week....I don't think I'd get a useful one tomorrow, with the change from 11/13 to 12/12, so I'll just so a small curve of +3, 5, and 7 tomorrow during the day and again at night, if I can stay awake that long.
    I should get my sample of YA this week, too, and will be ordering a bag, so that's going to be another change coming that I'll have to work through. I'm thinking 1 full can each in the AM and PM, with YA left out for grazing.
     
  4. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I agree it's time to go back to 12/12 and see how that works!
     
  5. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    I need to fix my spread sheet (back to 12/12) but I'm pretty sure if I had gotten a test at like 330 or 430AM I would have been freaking out. What do you guys think of a +12 AMPS of 95? (Tested 2x to verify.)
     
  6. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm....that's interesting. How are you on your schedule right now? Did you already feed him? Can you stall and retest?
     
  7. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't shoot at this number. Even with stalling he likely wouldn't be high enough in the next hour or so. I think you might consider a small decrease in dose tonight to 3.5 u too because he'll probably be a bit more insulin sensitive.
     
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  8. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Actually, I did stall 20 and retest and he's up to 135 on the relion, 181 on the AT2. If I can get him over 200 in the next 20-40 minutes I'm going to give 2U I think. And I'll be expectin his bounce later today.
    Edit....also, he's starving. I'm killing him by not feeding him. I think he's threatening to kick all of us out of his house if I don't feed him RIGHT NOW. Lol.
     
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  9. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    It's interesting that his PMPS are so consistent, and his AMPS are so random. Maybe he goes out and parties during the night? :cat:
     
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  10. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    I wouldn't be surprised. Some nights he runs through the house and sounds like a freaking elephant. Others he curls right up in bed with me (something he hadn't done in a very long time, prior to insulin) and sleeps. Last night I didn't hear him and he wasn't in bed so....?
     
  11. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    That's why I hate stalling. Those cries of dismay tear my heart! Plus, it never works for Sam. I think it works better for kitties that are bouncy and/or run in higher numbers.
     
  12. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    His cries don't bother me. I like to ask him questions and pretend he's answering me. "What do you want to do today frank?" "Meeaaaoowww." "Oh, take a nap?"
    Edit: Yeah, that sounded weirder than I had hoped. :woot:
     
  13. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    LOL!!! I can totally picture that! I'm going to remember that next time Sam starts yowling at me!
     
  14. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Was the same with Maury, he stopped coming upstairs to sleep with me. Then he had a temporary ban because he peed in my bed :( Most nights now he will come up and cuddle until I fall asleep. So if I wake up in during the night I'm like, "where did he go.... *listens for eating or potty noises*... fall back asleep" :smuggrin:
     
  15. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Haha I do the same thing with my cats!
     
  16. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Got a shootable #. That's one heck of an increase in 40 minutes, but Frank is happy I finally gave him breakfast.
     
  17. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Can also do an immediate re-test when you get a jump that is "odd". Happened to me the other night. Look at my PMPS note 26 April
     
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  18. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    I think I'll start grabbing some +11 before the AMPS. Find out if this is a morning trend.
     
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  19. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    You had a jump of over 100 on the +11 and +12 during your PM cycle a couple nights ago. And I've seen that one other spreadsheets too. A lot can happen in that last hour as the insulin wears off.
     
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  20. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Busted out the high carb food for real today. Going to be grabbing another test here momentarily.
     
  21. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Woah! All right now Frank, slow down a little!
     
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  22. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Exciting!
     
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  23. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    He's staying within OK numbers with Friskies and some of his glycobalance. No honey or anything needed yet, but I wish I had shot 2U instead of 3, lol.
     
  24. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    It looks like he's going to get a nice long run in the healing numbers though. The more hours he spends there, the better!
     
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  25. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Think that 3.0U is working out very nice for that PS! :cool:
     
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  26. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Thanks. It was a bit nerve racking shooting a 3 40 minutes after a 90BG.
     
  27. Susan G & Jimmy G

    Susan G & Jimmy G Member

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    I'm trying to figure this all out still...week 3 for us. So pardon the ignorance. How did you determine to reduce from 3.75 to 3 based on those numbers?
     
  28. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Prozinc has some slightly different protocols because it is an in - and - out insulin, unlike Lantus and Levemir that are depot insulins. :)
     
  29. Susan G & Jimmy G

    Susan G & Jimmy G Member

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    Ah ok. Right. Thx.
     
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  30. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    HI Susan! Don't use the prozinc board fire dosing on Lantus...the 2 insulins act differently, as Yong said. I would be lost in Lantus land. Lol. But what I did was stall and test for 40 minutes and got a higher number. It was mid 90s when I started, and it went to 260...which is a number I've shot at before. So I looked at my spreadsheet and used 4/27 as my guide.
     
  31. Susan G & Jimmy G

    Susan G & Jimmy G Member

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    l I didn't realize I was on that forum. But no, I don't follow anyone 's dosing regime. But I'm definitely learning a lot from others SS and comments. Bummed tonight - Jimmy had the lowest PMPS number since starting this and I blew it with a fur shot. I am on day 2 of an increase too. :banghead:
     
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  32. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I never used Lantus but I can tell you we ALL feel your pain on the fur shot!!! Been there, done that. It sucks...but remember that it's just one shot! :bighug:
     
  33. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    That stinks, but you'll be back on track tomorrow! ;)
     
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  34. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Oh....and, there's that bounce I was expecting!
     
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  35. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Yep...we knew that was coming!
     
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  36. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Preshots today were in the higher side. Leftover bounce from yesterday? I still can't decide if I might have missed a good dose weeks ago because of bouncing and me not having enough patience, or if we're getting so close to a good dose now and that's causing bouncing. Ugh...if he's a 4U 2x a day cat, that's going to be so expensive.:blackeye:
     
  37. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Hey may not need it for a long period :bighug:
     
  38. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    I'm holding on to that hope!
     
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  39. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    I just caught Frank eating the dog food. Cleary not his first time at that all you can eat diner, either. I'm going to kill him.
     
  40. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Does anyone know the carb content in purina pro plan for dogs? :facepalm::facepalm:
     
  41. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Ahhhh...sneaky Frank! Not sure of the carb count, but I think you can assume it's high. That may explain some of the higher numbers you've seen...
     
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  42. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    I put glucobalance back out for free feeding today. It's got to be better than the dog food, and numbers were lower when I was still free feeding it in addition to the canned food. I think I'm going to need to start over/lower the dose, especially once I get the YA in the mail. I think I'll see a drop in numbers once I get my darn cat off the dog food.
     
  43. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I agree that dog food is probably fairly high in carbs. That darned Frank!
     
  44. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Glycobalance is super high in carbs. It may not be better than the dog food. You can free feed canned food. I put out canned food in the morning and leave it until dinner. I do add extra water to it in the morning so it doesn't dry out during the day, but my cats are both grazers, so they just eat as they wish throughout the day.
     
  45. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    I do leave out canned food...but he scarfs it. I guess I can go back to 4 cans a day to keep him out of the dog food...the canned is healthier, so that might be the best idea. Right now he gets 2 cans a day. When his preshots were lower, he was getting 4 a day to help him gain weight. He's a healthy weight now, which is why I was limiting it to 2 a day. But...freaking dog food!! Grrr. I couldn't believe it last night.
     
  46. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    I just checked and the dog food is about 40% carbs. :arghh:
     
  47. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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  48. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    So maybe all those black and red numbers that we thought were bouncing were really dog food?!? Lol...oh, Frank!
     
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  49. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    He looks pretty good tonight, but I can't get into my spreadsheet. Grr. 264 at +11, 278 at PMPS. And I see that yesterday I put a number in today's box, so I gotta fix that too.
     
  50. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Well, that's a lot better than last night's PS! No dog food tonight? ;)
     
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  51. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    How did you lock yourself out of your SS? lol
     
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  52. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    I don't know! I couldn't get it through my mobile site...had to request the desk top site to finally get it to work.
     
  53. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Bumped the canned food up to 3 cans a day today. I'm pretty sure it's kept Frank out of the dog food, and his numbers are back on track! Of course now I'm worried he's going to go too low.
     
  54. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Your 4/21 PM cycle looked very similar. Fingers crossed this one finishes the same way!
     
  55. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Bounce this AM after those nice blues last night.
     
  56. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Oh, it's possible that he got intout the dog food last night again, too. I'm not used to pulling her food up...she free eats and is a healthy weight, so I've never had to schedule her meals. I think I'm going to have to get her on some kind of schedule.
     
  57. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Got the sample of YA in the mail today and Frank loves it, so I'm ordering that today. Now fingers crossed for a lower dose and lower numbers!
     
  58. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Maybe that will deter him from the dog food :D
     
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  59. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    That's my hope! It's a struggle to keep the dog out of his food; never imagined that would go both ways.
     
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  60. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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  61. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    He's lucky he's cute. Her too. 20170407_074001.jpg
     
  62. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sarah! How are you and Frank (and the rest of your critters) doing?
     
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  63. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    We're doing good! It's been a rainy week here in Northeast Ohio, and it's playing havoc with my migraines. I did get out of the house for a bit today and went and volunteered at the rescue, and got to meet this (extremely overweight) rescue pig. Back home now stating warm! 20170506_181256-1.jpg
     
  64. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Frank is officially OTDG (off the dog food, lol) and I lowered his dose to a "start over" point for us, now that I know his diet is more controlled than before. Wondering how anyone deals with the whole getting more insulin from the vet when they don't follow the vet's dosing advice? I'm going to run out well before I should, and will need to address this in the next few weeks. Eek.
     
  65. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Heck, I just called the vet and said I needed more. Try calling and asking them what the protocol is for ordering more insulin and see what they say?
     
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  66. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Yup, what Rachel said. I'd be surprised if they do a calculation to figure out how long it should have lasted.
     
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  67. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    This is hilarious!
     
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  68. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    I have to call on Monday with today's BG test, so I think she'll probably raise the dose, and I'm going to ask for a new bottle.
     
  69. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Working on slowly increasing Frank's dose and trying to watch his eating very carefully so he doesn't get into contraband. He's gained about 3.6 pounds in the month and a half since diagnosis, and I can feel every one of those ounces when I pick him up. Haven't ordered the YA just yet...I ordered 6 months of flea/tick/heartworm for Belle and flea/tick for Frank (found a website that you can order w/o a prescription, and it is SO CHEAP, compared to the vet) so YA order is waiting till payday. I think he probably had a decent cycle today, judging by his AM +10. Anyhow, we've just been hanging out and enjoying some non-rainy weather.
     
  70. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I like the careful dose increases. What did your vet have to say?
     
  71. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    She recommended a dose increase to 3, so for right now we're on the same page. Lol.
     
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  72. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Oh yeah....Frank's dandruff has clearned up, too, so I know he's doing much better than he had been. And he's more loveable than he's ever been his entire life.
     
  73. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I think they (learn to) enjoy the extra TLC involved in treating the FD. My guy has always been an attention hog so it's right up his alley!
     
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  74. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Hey Sarah, how are you and Frank? Are you thinking of trying 3.25U again? :cat:
     
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  75. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Yes...I think tonight I'm bumping the dose. We did have a good midcycle number over the weekend, but he's still relatively high.
     
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  76. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Sorry i haven't checked in much lately. My busy life. Summer has come full time to NE Ohio. I love it! (But I think it's going to dip back into the 60s for a few days.) Frank is missing a lot of those highs we had before, so I think they were definitely food related. Wish I could get a few +8 right now...might set an alarm for the middle of the night tonight. I suspect that we're in blues for a bit during the mid cycle but not quite where I'd like him to be yet. I do feel better about starting over and doing slow increases; I was afraid we had missed a good dose because of the dog food. Frank isn't nearly as bouncy now that his diet is more controlled! My vet is now on maternity leave, so I'll be working with one of the others in the office regarding Frank's care. Hope it goes well. ;)
     
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  77. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Got some nice yellows yesterday! Some mid cycles when you can would be super helpful just to see where he's getting...probably make you happy too since I suspect some blues might be in there! :)
     
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  78. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    You can take our 90's (32°C) and humid :smuggrin:, I will gladly take your 60's (15°C):D
     
  79. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    We're currently in the high 80s/low 90s. Going to drop a bit this weekend though to some spring like temps.
     
  80. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Yeah, I agree. Good mid cycles have to wait to the weekend though, because of work and sleep. Lol. Both over rated, I know!
     
  81. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    How is Frank doing? Did you increase to 3.5 for the weekend? Hope all is well with both of you!
     
  82. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Bumping him up tonight to 3.5. It's been nice not seeing those super high numbers very often! Frank is doing well....I think he likes not having those super high numbers either! Lol.
     
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  83. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    I see you got a blue Saturday :cool:. How are you and Frank, Sarah? Have a good weekend? :cat:
     
  84. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    How's the 3.5 going?
     
  85. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Hey guys, sorry I've been MIA. So busy...and I feel like I'm not as freaked it about this diabetes thing anymore so I don't need to constantly ask for help. Frank and I are doing good. I'm not getting nearly as many bounces anymore, although my SS is in dire need of being updated...will do that momentarily. We are up to 3.75....SLOOOOWWW increases, which has helped with the bounces! Started the 2nd vial of insulin yesterday, and don't you know I left the damn thing out on the counter all day. Grrrrr. We'll see if I just threw the $127 out the window in a few hours, with a test.
    He may have bounced today....wonder if the new bottle was super potent and caused that? Things to consider, right? Anyhow, thanks for checking in...will be reading everyone's posts here in a few to see how all the kitties are doing!
     
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  86. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    It'll probably be okay. Several of us have left it out all night or day and kept using it.

    Glad to hear that you're doing well and feeling more confident and in control! :)
     
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